Cork South Central in Next General Election

dulpit

Interesting debate last night on TV3. I've not watched many of these debates, but it was the first I saw where all sitting TDs showed up, so that was good.

Thought Coveney was good, he was controlled and didn't get scrappy. Same goes for McGrath. You could tell that Lynch & Buttimer are in a scrap for a seat though.

The rest of the candidates weren't very strong, the SF lad was the best of the bunch and he wasn't great really.

Myself & Mrs. Dulpit did have a good giggle at the start with Vincent introduced everybody with incorrect information :pac:

Brussels Sprout

dulpit wrote: »

but it was the first I saw where all sitting TDs showed up

With less than 3 weeks to go to the election and one seat last to play around with they didn't have much of a choice. VB was relishing the opportunity to have a cut off of the likes of Martin and Coveney and they pretty much had to sit there and take it.

mikeym

The debate has reinforced my opinion not to vote for Labour, Fine Gael or Fianna Fail.

I am willing to back Sinn Fein because Ive been lied to by Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

I am sick of the Property Tax, I am against Irish Water and the new bin charges which will kick in later this year.

My wages have been slashed over the years and fair enough Im a few Euro better off since January but Fine Gaels policys are only suiting the Middle to Upper Class Rochestown Road type people and not the lower earners.

Vincent Browne made some funny blunders at the start of the Programme and the Non Tds didnt get much airtime.

c montgomery

mikeym wrote: »

The debate has reinforced my opinion not to vote for Labour, Fine Gael or Fianna Fail.

I am willing to back Sinn Fein because Ive been lied to by Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

I am sick of the Property Tax, I am against Irish Water and the new bin charges which will kick in later this year.

My wages have been slashed over the years and fair enough Im a few Euro better off since January but Fine Gaels policys are only suiting the Middle to Upper Class Rochestown Road type people and not the lower earners.

Vincent Browne made some funny blunders at the start of the Programme and the Non Tds didnt get much airtime.

SF are in power in the north, property and water tax up there. For it when in power and against it to buy votes.

SF IRA run kangaroo courts in the north for sex offenses but are against the special criminal court in Ireland as it's unjust, only after one of their buddies is convicted.

The party leader did little when his brother abus ed his niece.

Members of the party greeted a garda killer on his release from prison.

Be careful who you vote for,

orthsquel

My favourite part was VB pulling up Coveney on his denial of FG being cheerleaders about spending and property bubble during FF's reign. The face on Coveney was worth it because he's usually quite collected. Oh and the blunders at the start. Never knew what PJ Coogan looked like either!

I was disappointed with the lack of airtime to candidates who aren't standing TDs. I think there was an over-dominance of the sacred 5 in discussion - who tbh I would be a lot more familiar with - and a lack of engagement by the rest. I'm not sure if that's the fault of VB or production or just the candidates themselves not putting themselves forward enough but I was very surprised of their lack of participation either way and consider it an opportunity lost if they didn't put themselves forward.

Lynch seemed fairly calm as the most likely prospect to lose his seat. But I thought he came across well. McGrath is like the complete opposite to Micháel Martin, between them he came across a lot better. MM himself was no different than I'd expect tbh, same with Coveney. Biggest surprise for me was Jerry Buttimer because out of those sitting, he's the one I know the least. And tbh I'm not sure about him at all.

Elizabeth Horihane is like the biggest disappointment ever for me. I understood she had a bit of fire in her and tbh I don't see the relevance of her. The only thing I learned is that she is no longer under the national citizens movement banner and I wonder if that was before or since they joined with DDI.
Joe Harris didn't seem to know why he was there or what he wanted to say; Mick Finn I didn't get much out of but I might look into more detail about him. Ciarán Kenneally, his stance on abortion was the only useful thing I have found out about him at all; Michael Mohally not sure why he is running and hope for his sake he engages more; Jim O'Connell for AAA-PBP I was looking forward to because I don't think this constituency ever had a PBP candidate and thought he'd be another with fire in his belly....while he did get in there a couple of times and came across well enough I would have expected a lot more from him... and I'd add the PBP speaker from the audience made much better points; O'Laoghaire I was disappointed with tbh compared to Chris O'Leary (chalk and cheese), held his mantle well all the same but tbh seems overhyped from what I've heard of him... for his age he's really not the new breed of SF I've seen around; Fiona Ryan and Lorna Bogue both participated and engaged the most although both I feel need more coaching from more seasoned debaters to make their points more coherent. O Cadhla came across ok.

Overall I was disappointed, I thought VB debates were meant to be that bit more inclusive rather than centered around the main parties. The last audience member to speak made a great point on a topic that was untouched and surprisingly no discussion at all on crime, which should be (even before events late last week) top of the discussion points.

One thing I think all of them standing though should wake up to: VB was right about what he said about abortion - there's been 30 years of talking about it, they need to realise that there's folks like me out there who have never had the opportunity to vote on it in those years and it is an issue I want to vote on. The last time it went before the people I was too young and it was a different generation that got to vote and it's past time for it to be voted on with a different generation on both sides of the debate.

KCAccidental

orthsquel wrote: »

Elizabeth Horihane is like the biggest disappointment ever for me. I understood she had a bit of fire in her and tbh I don't see the relevance of her. The only thing I learned is that she is no longer under the national citizens movement banner and I wonder if that was before or since they joined with DDI.

she seems to be running on an anti-immigration platform this time around.

orthsquel

KCAccidental wrote: »

she seems to be running on an anti-immigration platform this time around.

Really? I didn't realise that she was much focused on that but yes she has been posting a lot about immigration on facebook. Perhaps she should be joining Identity Ireland if that's her key issue. I thought she was very much anti austerity and campaigner for social issues but I looked at one of the articles from the Journal and one question was this: "What one thing would you like to do in your first 100 days of the new Dail if you were elected?"
"Regulate immigration/border controls, Referendum on EU, legal aid for those facing evictions, legislate for debt /write downs, rent controls, national advocacy service."

There was a big debate re housing and homelessness, something she appears to have as an issue but she didn't really contribute there. For someone who eh posts a lot on facebook about stuff she really failed in my opinion to contribute in reality.

dulpit

orthsquel wrote: »

Fiona Ryan and Lorna Bogue both participated and engaged the most although both I feel need more coaching from more seasoned debaters to make their points more coherent.

I was quite impressed with both actually. I wouldn't agree with any of the AAA/PBP policies, but she was able to get her points in well. Lorna Bouge was very impressive also, wonder if she's one for the future, seen as how CSC did vote green in the past...

orthsquel

I do think they were good and they have both moved up my own list considerably. I'd agree there is potential there in Lorna Bogue and could fair better than predecessor Dan Boyle could ever have.

Bacchus

mikeym wrote: »

The debate has reinforced my opinion not to vote for Labour, Fine Gael or Fianna Fail.

I am willing to back Sinn Fein because Ive been lied to by Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

Going for the whole set then so next time around you can say Ive been lied to by Labour, Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein.

They are all at it but I find SF to be a party that just jumps onto whatever "power to the people" slogan/movement is going at the time without any notion of every having to back up anything they commit to because they know the odds of them getting into government are so slim. The worst thing that could happen to SF is to actually get in to power as they will be quickly be found out when reality dawns on them that you can't simply tax the top 5% to the point of emigration, give everyone else free money and services and expect things to run better than they are now.

It's weird to say, but I find McGrath to be very well spoken and clear on what FF want to achieve if elected. In the finance minister debate (on the Claire Byrne show) while the other party reps were squabbling and shouting over each other, he was cool, made sensible points and didn't get drawn in. Hate the party but McGrath is a good candidate.

I'm still totally undecided on who to go for. Maybe an independent but the odds are stacked against them with such strong party candidates there, it'd be a vote down the drain (unless there is a clear front runner between them).

dulpit

Bacchus wrote: »

I'm still totally undecided on who to go for. Maybe an independent but the odds are stacked against them with such strong party candidates there, it'd be a vote down the drain (unless there is a clear front runner between them).

That's the beauty of PR-STV. If you have a favourite, give them a #1, regardless of their perceived strength. If they fall away early your vote will transfer to #2/#3/etc - and your vote won't end up "down the drain".

The only votes that really don't count are those associated against the last candidate not elected, if you think about it...

Bacchus

dulpit wrote: »

That's the beauty of PR-STV. If you have a favourite, give them a #1, regardless of their perceived strength. If they fall away early your vote will transfer to #2/#3/etc - and your vote won't end up "down the drain".

The only votes that really don't count are those associated against the last candidate not elected, if you think about it...

Ah yeah, I get the whole transfer thing but I could put an independent I like as my #1 with no real hope of them getting elected, in which case I'm essentially kicking the can down the road with my #2/3/4 choice being the vote that really matters. I take your point though, give the #1 to who I think deserves it, not who I think will take a seat that I don't object to. CSC feels so wrapped up though (Coveney, Martin & McGrath all dead certs) that the choice boils down to which of Buttimer, O Laoghaire or Lynch you want in, none of whom appeal to me.

CZ 453

Bacchus wrote: »

Ah yeah, I get the whole transfer thing but I could put an independent I like as my #1 with no real hope of them getting elected, in which case I'm essentially kicking the can down the road with my #2/3/4 choice being the vote that really matters. I take your point though, give the #1 to who I think deserves it, not who I think will take a seat that I don't object to. CSC feels so wrapped up though (Coveney, Martin & McGrath all dead certs) that the choice boils down to which of Buttimer, O Laoghaire or Lynch you want in, none of whom appeal to me.

In the scenario that your no.1 doesn't get in- S/He may base their decision to run again on the amount of no.1s they receive this time. O Laoighaire is almost certainly following this train of thought.

Bacchus

CZ 453 wrote: »

In the scenario that your no.1 doesn't get in- S/He may base their decision to run again on the amount of no.1s they receive this time. O Laoighaire is almost certainly following this train of thought.

That is a fair point.

mikeym

I do realise that Sinn Fein are not a perfect party but I am willing to give them a chance.

If O Laoghaire is going to get elected he will need the transfer votes and Sinn Fein dont do too well with the transfers.

Micheal Martin was part of the Bertie Era but hes loved all over Cork and I dont get that.

A lot of good points were brought up about candidates not engaging but the show was edited so we might not have seen everything.

Who knows maybe we might see a shock.

sozbox

mikeym wrote: »

I do realise that Sinn Fein are not a perfect party but I am willing to give them a chance.

If O Laoghaire is going to get elected he will need the transfer votes and Sinn Fein dont do too well with the transfers.

Micheal Martin was part of the Bertie Era but hes loved all over Cork and I dont get that.

A lot of good points were brought up about candidates not engaging but the show was edited so we might not have seen everything.

Who knows maybe we might see a shock.

So you support welfare and tax increases, the abolition of the special criminal court and the repeal of the offences against the state acts?

mikeym

sozbox wrote: »

So you support welfare and tax increases, the abolition of the special criminal court and the repeal of the offences against the state acts?

Sinn Fein are not alone in wanting the Abolition of the Special Criminal Court.

In 2000 The UN Human Rights Committee repeated its concerns and called for Ireland to end the jurisdiction of The Special Criminal Court.

They plan to increase Taxes on those earning over €100,000 a year and they propose to raise the USC threshold to €19,572.

calnand

It's pure sinn fein to rob from people who have worked extremely hard to get to where they are( I know some don't deserve it) and give to people who give nothing back to society and leech off the general public.

byronbay2

orthsquel wrote: »

I do think they were good and they have both moved up my own list considerably. I'd agree there is potential there in Lorna Bogue and could fair better than predecessor Dan Boyle could ever have.

Dan Boyle was an elected TD and one of the best politicians Cork has produced in the past 30 years imo - I am not a Green Party supporter. Leo Varadkar reminds me of him; hard worker and honest/straight speaker. If Dan Boyle was a member of FG/FG, I think he could have gone a long way in national politics.

Bacchus wrote: »

It's weird to say, but I find McGrath to be very well spoken and clear on what FF want to achieve if elected. In the finance minister debate (on the Claire Byrne show) while the other party reps were squabbling and shouting over each other, he was cool, made sensible points and didn't get drawn in. Hate the party but McGrath is a good candidate.

Yeah, Michael McGrath is my dirty little political secret as well! Hope he doesn't do a Dan Boyle and lose his seat just before he has a chance to wield some power - should be OK for re-election though. Can see MMcG as FF leader in 18 month's time.

Ludo

byronbay2 wrote: »

Dan Boyle was an elected TD and one of the best politicians Cork has produced in the past 30 years imo - I am not a Green Party supporter. Leo Varadkar reminds me of him; hard worker and honest/straight speaker. If Dan Boyle was a member of FG/FG, I think he could have gone a long way in national politics.



Yeah, Michael McGrath is my dirty little political secret as well! Hope he doesn't do a Dan Boyle and lose his seat just before he has a chance to wield some power - should be OK for re-election though. Can see MMcG as FF leader in 18 month's time.

hmm..is it possible to thank the first part of a post and be utterly be disgusted with the second half :-)

somefeen

Coveney can get to **** anyway.

He was utterly incompetent and lacklustre as Minister for Marine and I cant imagine he'd do Cork much better.

somefeen

Coveney can get to **** anyway.

He was utterly incompetent and lacklustre as Minister for Marine and I cant imagine he'd do Cork much better.

moyners

somefeen wrote: »

Coveney can get to **** anyway.

He was utterly incompetent and lacklustre as Minister for Marine and I cant imagine he'd do Cork much better.

I disagree. He was the first minister in the history of the state to actually come up with an integrated marine plan. Millions of SFI funding directed to centering marine renewable research in Ringaskiddy. I'm not a FG voter by any shot but he's been one of the hardest working and effective ministers.

pwurple

mikeym wrote: »

They plan to increase Taxes on those earning over €100,000 a year and they propose to raise the USC threshold to €19,572.

What freaks me out is how that 'superrich' category is dropping all the time. First it was those on more than 300k, then more than 200k, soon it's going to be a husband and wife on 35k each... 70k combined, the dirty rich feckers!

Bacchus

Yup, I too hate this "target the rich to fix all of the countries problems" line that opposition parties tout to appeal to low earners. The money is already coming in, it's how we spend it that seems to be the problem. Adding more tax to the our most successful citizens won't fix the health care system or reopen Garda stations. Using the money we have sensibly will do that. But no, lets go for lowest common denominator promises... tax the "rich" more, give more handouts in benefits, throw some money at first time buyers (cause that makes complete sense and won't drive house prices up at all :rolleyes:), oh and lets prey on the hopes of couples struggling to have a child by dangling the carrot of some free fertility treatment in front of them. The worst thing of all is that so many people will fall for this BS, anything that serves their narrow interests instead of actually attempting to do something real to help the country recover.

/rant

sozbox

It's the AAAPBP slogan of 'Share the Wealth' that grates me the most. Wealth has to be created before it can be shared!!

Balmed Out

I see around mahon and blackrock someone has put "I am a liar" stickers over the mouths of Labour / ff / fg posters. Presumably their under the false impression that people will take notice of their opinion and that unlike the other parties Sinn Fein and the AAA are honest :pac:

dulpit

Balmed Out wrote: »

I see around mahon and blackrock someone has put "I am a liar" stickers over the mouths of Labour / ff / fg posters. Presumably their under the false impression that people will take notice of their opinion and that unlike the other parties Sinn Fein and the AAA are honest :pac:

We have them up the northside too. Only FG/Lab here though, Billy Kelleher seems to be getting off without them for now...

CZ 453

The Jerry Buttimer posters on Tramore road have Hitler moustaches on them.

clerk

Balmed Out wrote: »

I see around mahon and blackrock someone has put "I am a liar" stickers over the mouths of Labour / ff / fg posters. Presumably their under the false impression that people will take notice of their opinion and that unlike the other parties Sinn Fein and the AAA are honest :pac:

All the one to me but it does what it is supposed to do and makes a mockery of the poster/s.

lf l had my way all the posters would be banned. Like l am going to vote for a TD because his team stuck a load of posters up for a few weeks !!! so it would be like l have issues with what you done in the locality, I disagree with your policy on abortion/economy/taxes (whatever) but when I saw that marvelous poster of yours I just had to vote for you !!

mikeym

Evening Echo article on the posters.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/vandals-are-slamming-defaced-posters/1855411/

Balmed Out

clerk wrote: »

All the one to me but it does what it is supposed to do and makes a mockery of the poster/s.

lf l had my way all the posters would be banned. Like l am going to vote for a TD because his team stuck a load of posters up for a few weeks !!! so it would be like l have issues with what you done in the locality, I disagree with your policy on abortion/economy/taxes (whatever) but when I saw that marvelous poster of yours I just had to vote for you !!

I think it makes a mockery of those that did it and a process of elimination points a finger to the far left, kind of annoys me too I can make my own mind up.

I think each candidate should be allowed a total of 100 posters or something like that as its a bit ridiculous.

KCAccidental

Balmed Out wrote: »

I think it makes a mockery of those that did it and a process of elimination points a finger to the far left, kind of annoys me too I can make my own mind up.

I think each candidate should be allowed a total of 100 posters or something like that as its a bit ridiculous.

The Italians use a noticeboard system that seems a bit tidier than posters on lamposts.

mikeym

Was listening to Micheal Martin on the radio and he was talking about his role in introducing the Smoking Ban.

That was 12 years ago.

If the smoking ban was the only positive thing he done when he was a minister he shouldn't be reelected.

schofferhofer

Does anyone know much about the independents who are standing from CSC? Can't imagine I'd be voting for any of the mainstream parties this time. I know Mick Finn is part of the independent's alliance led by Shane Ross but don't have any other information on him or the rest of the lot.

moyners

schofferhofer wrote: »

Does anyone know much about the independents who are standing from CSC? Can't imagine I'd be voting for any of the mainstream parties this time. I know Mick Finn is part of the independent's alliance led by Shane Ross but don't have any other information on him or the rest of the lot.

I think he's ex-FF http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158045

The rest are activists of various descriptions 'tenant's rights', anti-water charges and anti property tax, etc.

I'm disappointed the Social Democrats didn't run a candidate but they probably realistically thought it'd be a hard ask to get into the top 4 here.

Ludo

schofferhofer wrote: »

Does anyone know much about the independents who are standing from CSC? Can't imagine I'd be voting for any of the mainstream parties this time. I know Mick Finn is part of the independent's alliance led by Shane Ross but don't have any other information on him or the rest of the lot.

They all appear to be anti everything. All the same as each other with nothing to offer unfortunately.

mikeym

Ludo wrote: »

They all appear to be anti everything. All the same as each other with nothing to offer unfortunately.

While the government are Pros at robbing the working class.

Brussels Sprout

CSC Poll out this morning. Looks like it's done and dusted with 2 FF + Coveney + the Shinner going through with Buttimer losing out.

Ludo

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

CSC Poll out this morning. Looks like it's done and dusted with 2 FF + Coveney + the Shinner going through with Buttimer losing out.

I would not trust that poll really. I'd say it will be a lot closer than the poll make out for the fourth seat and it is most definitely not done and dusted. I do think the SF guy will take it, but only just from Buttimer.

Ludo

mikeym wrote: »

While the government are Pros at robbing the working class.

And the independents running in CSC would do what differently? Anyway, I voted independent last time in CSC as there was a decent candidate (who did crap as it turned out and is not running again) but this time they are all the same which is a great pity.

kub

Ludo wrote: »

And the independents running in CSC would do what differently? Anyway, I voted independent last time in CSC as there was a decent candidate (who did crap as it turned out and is not running again) but this time they are all the same which is a great pity.

Unless someone was a friend or relative i would vote for them as independents, other than that they are a waste of time, sitting in the back benches and warming them up in The Dail. Unless of course they are supporting a Government akin to Healy Rae.

Ludo

kub wrote: »

Unless someone was a friend or relative i would vote for them as independents, other than that they are a waste of time, sitting in the back benches and warming them up in The Dail. Unless of course they are supporting a Government akin to Healy Rae.

I assume you meant "wouldn't" above. That is a fair point. FG it is then ☺

Cape Clear

Ludo wrote: »

I would not trust that poll really. I'd say it will be a lot closer than the poll make out for the fourth seat and it is most definitely not done and dusted. I do think the SF guy will take it, but only just from Buttimer.

Buttimer still in with a shout a lot will depend on where Lynch's transfers go once he is eliminated. Can't see SF getting enough transfers to win the seat .

Brussels Sprout

Ludo wrote: »

I voted independent last time in CSC as there was a decent candidate (who did crap as it turned out and is not running again)

I think we voted for the same candidate

Water John

I doubt if Buttimer will get enough to pass O'Leary on those numbers. The first three will be of little help to him. I wish him well though. Good guy.

lisasimpson

I think its funny that the AAA woman works for a german bank...thought they didn't like banks

kub

I have a hunch that she does not work in the economic section of the bank though.

Blackie Grey

Who will I vote for? they are all ****e from what I have seen

mikeym

If Sinn Fein get a seat in Cork South Central it will be one of the big shocks in the election.

If it still were a 5 seater Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire would definitely get a seat.