IVCA race canceled this Sunday

Beasty

wav1 wrote: »

More or less but not quite as bad[ish].They want road closures applied for..Our races in Drogheda[every inch of the circuit is in Meath] are going ahead inc the 3 stage Ras na N'og.Basically if there are not road closures they are not aiding or assisting any races..This we have accepted and are going to post anyway..Biggest issue is the use of our marshalls and how they approach motorists etc..Cant stop but can advise..If there are any issues post event garda said they will investigate and possibly prosecute marshall if necessary..After consultations with CI they have confirmed that they and their insurers would if necessary defend the marshall if they act in the correct manner..On this basis we are going ahead..What I would ask is this..if any of you out there care enough about whats happening,come along to our weekend,take on a hivis and flag and lets have marshalls everywhere as a stance of support in whats happening..Wav

Is this something that has been agreed with a local station and applicable specifically to your own races, or does this extend across Co Meath? If the latter I suspect the IVCA were not aware of this (until they see it here!). That may give them some scope to approach their own insurers to see if they can also get similar "assurance"

The information I have seen from a specific station within Co Meath is that they will not permit racing unless 100% within the RoTR, meaning anyone, for example, failing to observe a Stop sign leaves themselves open to prosecution, and the organisers could also be on the hook

Leroy42

I don't have any evidence to back up the claim that the riders behaviour on other races has had an impact on the decision by the Garda, but are we really to believe that they have no impact? Road impassable, cyclist racing through at 40+kph on the wrong side of the road, it can't be argued that it helped!

As I said, I don't think this is the sole cause, or if something had been done it would have necessarily changed anything, I think in the current climate of motorists v cyclists this action was inevitable.

Motorists see the roads as theirs. There are built purely for their purpose of going from A to B. Having to give way to a group of people racing is the ultimate in the loss of this right! Just look at any road where a cyclist is on it. A large mount of motorists don't see cyclists are part of traffic but rather a nuisance that should be got around as soon as possible.

This is just the natural extension of that thinking.

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Is this something that has been agreed with a local station and applicable specifically to your own races, or does this extend across Co Meath? If the latter I suspect the IVCA were not aware of this (until they see it here!). That may give them some scope to approach their own insurers to see if they can also get similar "assurance"

The information I have seen from a specific station within Co Meath is that they will not permit racing unless 100% within the RoTR, meaning anyone, for example, failing to observe a Stop sign leaves themselves open to prosecution, and the organisers could also be on the hook

Its not an agreement..Its what we took away from the meeting as our perception of things and after assurances from CI on the marshaling issue we decided to go ahead..If everybody buckles we are finished.And the noise is being made by a Supt in Meath who covers a huge patch[not a local station]

greenmat

buffalo wrote: »

You'd need to provide access to the hospital on that circuit., I believe that's been the source of complaints in the past.

There is another entrance to St Mary's off Upper Glen Road that brings you into the back of the hospital they don't want you to know about, can enter and exit from hospital off the circuit. Just puts people out a little.

buffalo

greenmat wrote: »

There is another entrance to St Mary's off Upper Glen Road that brings you into the back of the hospital they don't want you to know about, can enter and exit from hospital off the circuit. Just puts people out a little.

I always suspected this road could be used, but I'm just repeating what I've heard as one of the reasons given as to why road racing no longer takes place in the Park.

buffalo

Leroy42 wrote: »

I don't have any evidence to back up the claim that the riders behaviour on other races has had an impact on the decision by the Garda, but are we really to believe that they have no impact?

Yes. For example, triathlons have been cancelled too, and they have no bunches.

Cond0r

buffalo wrote: »

Yes. For example, triathlons have been cancelled too, and they have no bunches.

There is evidence that rider behavior has had this impact. It was specifically cited as the reason for withdrawal of support for the Balbriggan races due to take place this weekend.

A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan after the event [in 2014], outlining all the legislation that was broken by riders in the event and that future events would have to be run on closed roads for this reason.

Inquitus

Cond0r wrote: »

There is evidence that rider behavior has had this impact. It was specifically cited as the reason for withdrawal of support for the Balbriggan races due to take place this weekend.

A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan after the event [in 2014], outlining all the legislation that was broken by riders in the event and that future events would have to be run on closed roads for this reason.

Road races cannot be run legally in that case. You can't get round failing to stop at a stop sign, unless we remove the offending signs!

RobFowl

Inquitus wrote: »

Road races cannot be run legally in that case. You can't get round failing to stop at a stop sign, unless we remove the offending signs!

I know they cited riding more than 2 abreast as one of the complaints ....

They have a skewed view of what bike racing is about ......

buffalo

Cond0r wrote: »

There is evidence that rider behavior has had this impact. It was specifically cited as the reason for withdrawal of support for the Balbriggan races due to take place this weekend.

A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan after the event [in 2014], outlining all the legislation that was broken by riders in the event and that future events would have to be run on closed roads for this reason.

I wasn't aware of such a report. Link?

07Lapierre

brasshead wrote: »

Maybe IVCA should book Mondello for a few races

What about us Northsiders?...

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.4818514,-6.1771936/53.4803318,-6.1623449/53.4836645,-6.1647911/53.4862054,-6.169619/53.4842774,-6.1743397/53.4820429,-6.1775798/@53.4115709,-6.2436936,308m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2

Hmmzis

Boycot Co Fingal businesses?

On a more serious note it might be time to start going higher in the food chain than local guards or council paper pushers. Maybe lobbying for legislation that would allow by law using underutilised roads for recreational/sports events on weekends and off peak times without forcing the organisers to close the roads. Like during the event speed limits would be reduced and anyone not participating in the race would have the obligation to yield to participants. It's not like only cycling would benefit from that. All sorts of adventure things and xathlons and even running events could get a boost from it.

The alternatives are crits and TTs.

Cond0r

RobFowl wrote: »

I know they cited riding more than 2 abreast as one of the complaints ....

They have a skewed view of what bike racing is about ......

Unfortunately the law doesn't seem to provide for bike racing, which is precisely the problem we're facing.

Beasty

Inquitus wrote: »

unless we remove the offending signs!

Just to be clear I don't condone any such behaviour - if it does happen and the relevant "authorities" are looking for suspects please PM me and I will put you in touch with Inquitus :pac:

Carawaystick

Cond0r wrote: »

There is
A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan

Ah the cops in Balbriggan, woried more about cycling more than 2 abreast, than the fact one of them is a crook who stole money from the lock up in the station...

morana

post of the day there carawaystick!

Lumen

Cond0r wrote: »

Unfortunately the law doesn't seem to provide for bike racing, which is precisely the problem we're facing.

The obvious solution is to change the law.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

The obvious solution is to change the law.

I've heard moves are afoot, but we are unlikely to see anything definitive until 2016

Hmmzis

Lumen wrote: »

The obvious solution is to change the law.

Where do I sign up for this?

brasshead

07Lapierre wrote: »

What about us Northsiders?...

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.4818514,-6.1771936/53.4803318,-6.1623449/53.4836645,-6.1647911/53.4862054,-6.169619/53.4842774,-6.1743397/53.4820429,-6.1775798/@53.4115709,-6.2436936,308m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2

As a northsider, anything here gets my vote! Maybe we could persuade a Meath or North Dublin landowner to build a circuit on part of his/her land. A Corkagh park on de Northside!

wav1

After our club meeting last night we decided to go ahead based on what we learned yesterday.We had approx. 30/40 persons there last night and they are all in agreement.What will come next now is specific marshall training,and briefings etc[ironically some from a senior garda off duty].Happy with the decision now.
Anyway the food in the joy is far better than our house.

lennymc

07Lapierre wrote: »

What about us Northsiders?...

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.4818514,-6.1771936/53.4803318,-6.1623449/53.4836645,-6.1647911/53.4862054,-6.169619/53.4842774,-6.1743397/53.4820429,-6.1775798/@53.4115709,-6.2436936,308m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2

There is a much bigger circuit just up the road

07Lapierre

lennymc wrote: »

There is a much bigger circuit just up the road

Our very own Top Gear track eh? can we put a "Star on a reasonable priced bike" and set a lap time?

Inquitus

07Lapierre wrote: »

Our very own Top Gear track eh? can we put a "Star on a reasonable priced bike" and set a lap time?

ROK ON

Question - why is the BootInn circuit no longer used for racing. I know it gets evening traffic but not much in fairness and I can't recall any houses on the circuit .

07Lapierre

ROK ON wrote: »

Question - why is the BootInn circuit no longer used for racing. I know it gets evening traffic but not much in fairness and I can't recall any houses on the circuit .

Same reason every other circuit in Fingal hasn't been used....

Also, very heavy traffic around the airport nowadays AND the road surface just outside the Boot in is crap!

ROK ON

07Lapierre wrote: »

Same reason every other circuit in Fingal hasn't been used....

Also, very heavy traffic around the airport nowadays AND the road surface just outside the Boot in is crap!

Really.
Boot Inn hasn't been used in years and predates the current issues in NCD I thought.
Yeah road is poor but no worse than lots of them. I use it in the evenings occasionally and wouldn't classify traffic as heavy.

07Lapierre

ROK ON wrote: »

Really.
Boot Inn hasn't been used in years and predates the current issues in NCD I thought.
Yeah road is poor but no worse than lots of them. I use it in the evenings occasionally and wouldn't classify traffic as heavy.

Fair enough.. I agree there are worse road surfaces out there.
Draw up a management plan, apply for a Closed Road Order from Fingal. and once you have it I'll see you on the start line. I won't be using my "Good" wheels though.

greenmat

Was in Kart City a few months back on a work related issue, had a good look at the circuit. Not suitable in my opinion.

bcmf

we could run our very own roubaix, No Garda will ever find the *roads* we would use.

greenmat

greenmat wrote: »

If anyone would like to Join me on a YOUTH SPIN this Sat 28th March at 11am from North Street Business Park, Swords, just down from Carnegie Court Hotel. Doing laps of Corduff Circuit, (Last years Ben McKenna Circuit) were the problems with racing OUR roads started in 2012. Protect our sport for the future. All welcome, spread the word. Quiet protest and a chance to meet and chat to other racing Cyclists about our problems racing In Fingal and Meath.

https://www.strava.com/routes/2020669

Link to route for spin tomorrow if anyone fancies a handy spin with Youth riders. You might have trouble staying with 1 or 2 on the Nags Head

07Lapierre

greenmat wrote: »

Was in Kart City a few months back on a work related issue, had a good look at the circuit. Not suitable in my opinion.

agree..Its shorter and "Twistier" than Mondello...might be good for Youth races or Race training?

Inquitus

You could do a decent crit in the Airside car park.

Raam

I have a question...
Show of hands...
Who believes that road races should only be held on closed roads?

Lumen

Lets make it poll-y.

Thank Raam's post ^^ if you agree with the statement "Road races should only be held on closed roads"

Thank this post if you disagree.

I'm not thanks-whoring I just want to know the answer.

07Lapierre

Club Races (Small number of riders, rural roads) - Open Roads
Open Races ( 100+ riders, larger circuits) - Closed Roads

Diarmuid

Bit of a false choice really. Shouldn't it be open road or no racing? Because that's the practical choice. No Irish club could afford to run closed road races.

Lusk_Doyle

Diarmuid wrote: »

Bit of a false choice really. Shouldn't it be open road or no racing? Because that's the practical choice. No Irish club could afford to run closed road races.

They could if they think outside the box and get sponsorship from local businesses and CI.

Beasty

On mobile at present but could add a poll with 3 options a little later if one of the other mods doesn't get there first

Diarmuid

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

They could if they think outside the box and get sponsorship from local businesses and CI.

:pac::pac::pac:
Have you ever actually tried to get sponsorship?

Beasty

Actually there is a 4th option also - the Ulster model - Open roads + restricted numbers

07Lapierre

Diarmuid wrote: »

Bit of a false choice really. Shouldn't it be open road or no racing? Because that's the practical choice. No Irish club could afford to run closed road races.

In Fingal we already have the no racing option

Raam

Beasty wrote: »

Actually there is a 4th option also - the Ulster model - Open roads + restricted numbers

Let's not complicate this. It's a yes/no question. Do you want road races on open or closed roads?

Beasty

The Ulster model works. Maybe not as everyone would like it but I think you could rest assured they considered a number of options before resting on that one. Why not ask the question? Who knows, maybe that's the sort of compromise we may be able to get to work.

Raam

Beasty wrote: »

The Ulster model works. Maybe not as everyone would like it but I think you could rest assured they considered a number of options before resting on that one. Why not ask the question? Who knows, maybe that's the sort of compromise we may be able to get to work.

Does that mean that you don't want closed roads? I'm curious to know who wants what.

PeadarCo

Beasty wrote: »

The Ulster model works. Maybe not as everyone would like it but I think you could rest assured they considered a number of options before resting on that one. Why not ask the question? Who knows, maybe that's the sort of compromise we may be able to get to work.

From reading everything here the Ulster model might work but it would mean

an increase in race fees from the current €15. €15*60racers*4 races is €3,600 max per race which by all accounts isn't enough to properly fund races.

more races at weekends particularly in the Leinster area(This time of year anyway) to cater for the numbers racing every weekend. But that means more clubs being prepared to put on races and more volunteers required than the usual stalwarts that have served everyone well over the years.

wirelessdude01

Ulster model would IMO be preferable to closed roads. Sure it would annoy those racers who just decide on the morning that they will race. Now for it to be a workable solution the log jam that is A3 needs to be sorted and this is where CI needs to take its head out of the sand and stop just banking our money.

Beasty

Raam wrote: »

Does that mean that you don't want closed roads? I'm curious to know who wants what.

I would love to race on closed roads. However there is a big difference between what I want and what I think a club can reasonably deliver.

Over the past 3 years the club have considered putting races on closed roads. I feel the practicalities make it virtually impossible to get roads closed for a 20 week club league. I think it's more feasible for Open races, but again the practicalities still make it very difficult. Certainly within places like Fingal any closures would have to avoid motorway junctions, and there are a number of "major" roads (such as the Old N1, N2 etc) that do offer useful routes but may be difficult to get closures. You probably end up with very short circuits that may not result in decent racing.

Beasty

PeadarCo wrote: »

an increase in race fees from the current €15. €15*60racers*4 races is €3,600 max per race which by all accounts isn't enough to properly fund races.

Simple solution on this - cut the prize money

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

I would love to race on closed roads.

So you don't want racing on open roads?