I can't do this any more

The Corinthian

pwurple wrote: »

It works for children, it works for adults, it works for dogs.

Doesn't always work for adults unfortunately. Some people, typically with personality disorders, simply cannot learn this way - the connection between action and consequence never really forms as they grow up and as adults they tend to follow a pattern of repeating the same destructive, often self-destructive, behaviour.

It's like watching someone trying to pick up a scolding pot with their bare hands, burning themselves, then a few moments later trying again with the same results. Each time they're surprised at the outcome and will blame the pot, or anything or one else around, for the error.

I'm not saying the 'training' approach won't work, but bare in mind some people are basically broken and cannot be treated in the same way as if they were normal.

zeffabelli

pwurple wrote: »

You completely missed my point there katemarch. Ever read the book called "how to train a man using the secrets of dog-handlers" ?

It's a joke book obviously, (i think someone gave it to me at my hen party) but refusing to put up with bad behaviour, by showing clear consequences, is a potential way to improve this situation. It works for children, it works for adults, it works for dogs.

By refusing to tolerate the disappointment and upset this guy is causing the child with his selfish lateness, The message should get through. That's the point, not removing him from the child's life. A method of getting him to show up when he says he will.

It doesn't work with some people. They are still late all the time, often due to passive aggression, because they don't want to be there in the first place.

If its the case of personality disorder, as the above poster mentioned, which is unlikely as it is only about 4 or 5% of the population, many of which diagnosis are in dispute, then you are much better off with them out of the picture, whether it is sociopathy, NPD or BPD. It takes specialist knowledge and a lot of compassion. But lateness is not really a symptom of any of these so I am not sure the relevency of bringing them up in this context. It's kind of disengenous and dangerous to start applying personality disorder theory to a parent who cannot represent themselves in relation t the OPs perceptions. Certainly punctuality should not be a problem here. Where it could be a problem is with ASD and types of executive disfunction where lateness and time keeping is a real problem due to poor short term memory. If this is the case maybe set reminders.

I would just stop making arrangements full stop with someone who is always late. I did this for two years with a friend of mine who didnt even notice I stopped making plans with her, or if she did notice didn't remark upon it, and then one day she said she was coming over, game me a time. She was two hours late but I had already left. She was raging and never spoke to me again.

You are also taking on a "parental role" which is not really workable with another adult, it places them in a child seat, which ultimately and long term defeats the purpose, you end up being their mother too, and you don't want that because you wil then be looking at other infantile or adolescent rebellions. And you can't then blame them for that because you are the one who set up that paradigm.

I don't know what book this is, but we are not dogs and we don't have ownership relationships with co parents nor should we want them.

pwurple

The Corinthian wrote: »

Doesn't always work for adults unfortunately. Some people, typically with personality disorders, simply cannot learn this way - the connection between action and consequence never really forms as they grow up and as adults they tend to follow a pattern of repeating the same destructive, often self-destructive, behaviour.

It's like watching someone trying to pick up a scolding pot with their bare hands, burning themselves, then a few moments later trying again with the same results. Each time they're surprised at the outcome and will blame the pot, or anything or one else around, for the error.

I'm not saying the 'training' approach won't work, but bare in mind some people are basically broken and cannot be treated in the same way as if they were normal.

I don't deal with absolutes. I'm well aware it doesn't always work.

But it's something that can be tried. Sometimes you CAN change how people behave with some gentle correction...

For example, I've seen you use the phrase "Bare in mind" a good few times. It's "bear in mind" unless you mean something about no clothes. Will my correction change how you use it? Let's see!

pwurple

zeffabelli wrote: »

It doesn't work with some people. They are still late all the time, often due to passive aggression, because they don't want to be there in the first place.

Yes yes I know. but as the thread is looking for suggestions, I provided one.

It can, and does work in my own experience.

No, not ALL the time, not with everyone. But assuming the person does not have a personality disorder, or is not completely thick, showing them the consequences of their own actions may get through.


I'm proactive. I'll give something a go, and if it doesn't work, try something else.

I would just stop making arrangements full stop with someone who is always late. I did this for two years with a friend of mine who didnt even notice I stopped making plans with her, or if she did notice didn't remark upon it, and then one day she said she was coming over, game me a time. She was two hours late but I had already left. She was raging and never spoke to me again.

ps, this is not the way to go about that. You didn't even tell her what was going on, instead playing your own little game of "I wonder will she notice".

zeffabelli

pwurple wrote: »

Yes yes I know. but as the thread is looking for suggestions, I provided one.

It can, and does work in my own experience.

No, not ALL the time, not with everyone. But assuming the person does not have a personality disorder, or is not completely thick, showing them the consequences of their own actions may get through.


I'm proactive. I'll give something a go, and if it doesn't work, try something else.

Ah yeah I can see that, and honestly personality disorders don't necessarily have puncuality issues!

There has been a lot of work on motivation and its been proven carrot and stick doesn't work. The participant has to have instinsic meaning to what they are doing

In this case the first thing that would have to be discerned is of the father has a punctuality issue or is simply cavalier about his relationship with the child and not all the bothered- in other words does not hold intrinsic meaning.

TizTaly2015

Hi OP. I think there has been some very good suggestions here - keeping the diary, not sticking around if he's late (but of course this might not always suit if its raining, child is cranky etc). Its gonna be a very tough couple of years but it will smooth itself out eventually. Not sure if he has other children or if you do but if you don't, then this is new to you both. Its a massive change to both your lives and you will need to adapt for the wee one's benefit.

The bullying - that's a different aspect to this situation. If you can find the strength, I would put it to him - calmly - that if it continues, you will either bring him to mediation due to his attititude towards you or (again, if you can,) have a friend or family member present with you whenever he comes to see your child. My sister did this with her ex partner - he used to play awful mind games with her when they were alone and make her out to be mad but when she refused to engage with him anymore unless it was through a third party, he began to change his attitude towards her. It wasn't easy but it worked.

Oh and I would get a maintenance order for him - the judge can order a direct debit