"Soccer feeling like unloved child in tale of two sports"

Kermit.de.frog

Maybe it's deeper than the Irish team.


In rugby you see players putting their bodies on the line all the time taking huge hits and huge risks.

In soccer players fall over like they have been shot any time someone goes near them.

CSF

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Maybe it's deeper than the Irish team.


In rugby you see players putting their bodies on the line all the time taking huge hits and huge risks.

In soccer players fall over like they have been shot any time someone goes near them.

So? Is being willing to get hurt really such a laudable attribute? Id prefer intelligence and creativity myself, not that I'm putting that term on the Irish team, but still, what a strange thing for you to value so highly.

Do you judge your friends on which one can best take a dig or just your sportsmen?

Rugby got lucky here.

First and foremost, it had the fortune not to be run by the clown school that is the FAI, but by people who were decisive and good at what they did. They took stock and made some brutal changes, such as all but wiping out the clubs to invest all the focus in provinces. Those provinces then were successful at a time when people here had money and a desire to follow success. And again the IRFU were smart enough to capitalise on that.

I have zero interest in rugby, but I think one has to admire the IRFU. They have taken a sport played by a handful of countries and sold it to the public as some great success. Meanwhile the head of the FAI goes with a begging bowl to Denis O'Brien and buys drinks for anyone who'll listen to him singing.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Maybe it's deeper than the Irish team.

In rugby you see players putting their bodies on the line all the time taking huge hits and huge risks.

In soccer players fall over like they have been shot any time someone goes near them.

But that's just the nature of the sport.

In boxing they puck the heads off each other, in golf the only contact is a handshake, it doesn't mean one sport is less legitimate than the other.

Ranchu

CSF wrote: »

There's definitely a bigger pool of matchgoing fans for the rugby team than the football but Id be very surprised if the likes of John O'Shea, Paul McShane and James McClean weren't better known than their rugby equivalents, I mean obviously it goes without saying that everyone would know the best few players on each team.

And then there'll be the lesser players from both teams who neutrals don't know at all.

I'd imagine Simon Zebo would be far more of a household name than James McClean, particularly in Munster. The rugby players play here so get far more exposure. Outside of football fans I'd say you'd struggle massively to find people who have heard of McShane or know who he plays his club rugby for.

razorblunt

It's all,down to success in my opinion. When we're were competitive in soccer (at least getting to playoffs) it was huge, even 2012 was flying. A lot of the bandwagon/casual fans then move onto the next thing. It's easier to show support for teams that have a chance of winning than watching your team continue to struggle I'm guessing. If you're a die hard then you'll carry on regardless.

Ranchu

razorblunt wrote: »

It's all,down to success in my opinion. When we're were competitive in soccer (at least getting to playoffs) it was huge, even 2012 was flying. A lot of the bandwagon/casual fans then move onto the next thing. It's easier to show support for teams that have a chance of winning than watching your team continue to struggle I'm guessing. If you're a die hard then you'll carry on regardless.

This is a huge part of it. We're a spectacular nation of bandwagoners. Cono McGregor has half the country going mad for a really niche sport and his own TV show on our national broadcaster. Similar to the Bernard Dunne effect. Boxing has pretty much died on its arse compared to the support it had back then.

Fr Tod Umptious

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Maybe it's deeper than the Irish team.


In rugby you see players putting their bodies on the line all the time taking huge hits and huge risks.

In soccer players fall over like they have been shot any time someone goes near them.

No
Its only as deep as the current success of the Irish rugby team.

This will be seebn very clearly if Ireland host the rugby WC in 2023.

Liveline will be jammed with people complaining about the price of, and lack of tickets to Ireland games, and they will be giving them away to Canada v Tonga in Castlebar on a Wednesday night.

Balmed Out

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I thought they were both around the 200k mark?

County or city. County is just over the 1/2 million.

City changes depending on what you count as being part of the city and is a bit of a can of worms. Actual boundaries give it only about 120k but theres another 100k that are in the city proper but not officially, the boundaries havent changed in donkeys so despite being a lot bigger then Waterford the actual land area of Waterford city is bigger then Cork.

Fr Tod Umptious

Ranchu wrote: »

This is a huge part of it. We're a spectacular nation of bandwagoners. Cono McGregor has half the country going mad for a really niche sport and his own TV show on our national broadcaster. Similar to the Bernard Dunne effect. Boxing has pretty much died on its arse compared to the support it had back then.

The bit in bold is true.
But the base for the soccer bandwagon will always be bigger than the base for the rugby one.

Irish rugby will never have an Italia 90.

CSF

Ranchu wrote: »

I'd imagine Simon Zebo would be far more of a household name than James McClean, particularly in Munster. The rugby players play here so get far more exposure. Outside of football fans I'd say you'd struggle massively to find people who have heard of McShane or know who he plays his club rugby for.

I genuinely can't comment because I have no idea who that is.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

I genuinely can't comment because I have no idea who that is.

I know of him but it has nothing to do with rugby, but stories that began with "you hear about that Zebo fellow who plays for Ireland..."

Which kinda feeds back into the point in the OP about the latitude shown to rugby players. There was some French player asleep in a niteclub in Dublin after some recent game, if it had been a pro footballer he would have been in every tabloid but as it was a rugby player it was gas.

Zaph

Deleted User wrote: »

Rugby got lucky here.

First and foremost, it had the fortune not to be run by the clown school that is the FAI, but by people who were decisive and good at what they did. They took stock and made some brutal changes, such as all but wiping out the clubs to invest all the focus in provinces. Those provinces then were successful at a time when people here had money and a desire to follow success. And again the IRFU were smart enough to capitalise on that.

The introduction of the Heineken Cup allowed the IRFU to completely change the structure of Irish rugby, and that's why it has become so successful. They realised that entering the existing clubs into the competition would only result in them being wiped out every year, but by consolidating the best at that level into just 4 teams they were able to concentrate resources into producing more elite rugby players than there would have previously been in the country. I agree that luck played a part, if the Heineken Cup hadn't come along the pinnacle of domestic rugby would still be the All-Ireland League and every now and then the national team would have a better than average 6 Nations. I can't stand rugby, but I hugely admire the IRFU for how they have managed their resources to get to the stage they're at now.

ceegee

I think the 6 nations is a perfect storm for getting the attention of the casual fan.

An annual event, held at weekends, between our nearest neighbours, over the course of 2 months. The time of year helps as well, theres f**k all else going on in February so its the first big social event of the year.
The amount of fans who come over from the UK also helps the atmosphere for those watching it in pubs around Dublin.

Compare that to football: Matches spread out at random times of the year, on random days of the week with the competition spread out over nearly 2 years.

Ireland v England at 3pm on a Saturday will be an easy enough sell to get your friends out to the pub to watch.

Ireland v Kazakhstan on a Tuesday night isnt as appealling.

In fact, I'd say theres an almost direct correlation between the frequency of games in a competition and how it attracts the nation's attention: qualifiers<6N<RWC<WC/Euros.

Kermit.de.frog

But rugby is a good sport as well. The last day of the 6 nations was superb advertisement for it no matter what team you supported. Rugby is growing in Ireland whereas soccer seems at a particularly low ebb.

Also the premiership damages soccer here because it sucks the life out of the LOI. In rugby the Irish provinces are very competitive and are strong. That seems to be the crucial difference. The lack of regard and support for the LOI amongst soccer fans in Ireland is dire. Then of course there is the FAI, never mind FIFA - the first incompetent, the second corrupt and with contempt for soccer supporters everywhere.

Ranchu

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The bit in bold is true.
But the base for the soccer bandwagon will always be bigger than the base for the rugby one.

Irish rugby will never have an Italia 90.

No probably not. The success of Irish club rugby will also likely diminish over time with money becoming a larger part of the sport. At the moment though in the area I live which is largely working class you are still more likely to see the kids in Leinster or Ireland gear than football jerseys at the moment.

ArmaniJeanss

Deleted User wrote: »

I have zero interest in rugby, but I think one has to admire the IRFU.

IRFU are lucky more than clever imo.
If in soccer the European Championships was held every year on a rolling home and away basis and limited to Spain, England, Ireland, Italy, Germany, Holland and France with absolutely no possibility of relegation ever for the bottom team then the FAI would be in clover.
If in addition every Autumn they had guaranteed home friendlies against 3 of Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico and Colombia then they'd have another major source of income.
Then throw the FAI whats amounts to a guaranteed place in the World Cup as well and they'd be absolutely quids in.

FAI undeniably make loads of mistakes and have a lot of incompetents, but stil totally unfair to compare them to the IRFU who have effectively a stacked deck in their favour.

micks

The IRFU can only be credited for the way they have achieved a professional game/structure in this country
Their underage/provincial could teach the FAI a lot TBH

While its great to see the Irish squad achieving what they have recently - they are playing a worldwide minority sport. They are getting a great following at the moment both internationally and provincial but its not long ago they struggled to sellout their autumn internationals and had similar story selling season tickets for the aviva

Its also worth noting that at irish rugby's lowest they were prob ranked around 8th in the world

there is no comparison whatsoever in the competitiveness worldwide between the two codes.
Also IMO International football has taken a clear backseat behind club comps - league/CL.

ThunbergsAreGo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No
Its only as deep as the current success of the Irish rugby team.

This will be seebn very clearly if Ireland host the rugby WC in 2023.

Liveline will be jammed with people complaining about the price of, and lack of tickets to Ireland games, and they will be giving them away to Canada v Tonga in Castlebar on a Wednesday night.

Thats right, so many people follow to the Irish team and have never been to, or have any real interest in club Rugby.

Its a bandwagon but good to see any Irish team doing well,

Tox56

naughtb4 wrote: »

Thats right, so many people follow to the Irish team and have never been to, or have any real interest in club Rugby.
,

So same as football then

Super-Rush

The sudden interest in rugby over the past few years down to the success of the teams in the 6 Nations and to a lesser extent the Heineken cup. It was the same when the football team were regularly qualifying for tournaments.

You'll see it on your Facbuke feeds which is where the gravy train fans like to hang out most, or in most pub in most towns. I do think the IRFU and the clubs has invested the money a lot wiser than the FAI have, especially at grassroots level.

As for the media attention, i think its fairly even between both sports.

With regards to Robbie Keane's media attention, i think he has generally been lauded by them. For me its the fans who seem to be always on his back and a lot don't give him the credit he deserves.

I don't care for rugby myself, i find it too slow a game. Its the fcukers who tell me i'm being unpatriotic for not supporting them is where i have a problem. You get the same with a lot of older GAA fans as well.

Omackeral

ceegee wrote: »

I think the 6 nations is a perfect storm for getting the attention of the casual fan.

An annual event, held at weekends, between our nearest neighbours, over the course of 2 months. The time of year helps as well, theres f**k all else going on in February so its the first big social event of the year.
The amount of fans who come over from the UK also helps the atmosphere for those watching it in pubs around Dublin.

Compare that to football: Matches spread out at random times of the year, on random days of the week with the competition spread out over nearly 2 years.

Ireland v England at 3pm on a Saturday will be an easy enough sell to get your friends out to the pub to watch.

Ireland v Kazakhstan on a Tuesday night isnt as appealling.

In fact, I'd say theres an almost direct correlation between the frequency of games in a competition and how it attracts the nation's attention: qualifiers<6N<RWC<WC/Euros.

Spot on post. Same goes for a good proportion of Dublin GAA fans in the summer. Handy days out with a chance of success, minimal effort required. For the 6 nations ya only have to go to a handful of games and it's the thing to be at and is flavour of the month if we're doing well. Watercooler talk to say you were there because i's flash. This is casual fans I'm on about btw, not a shot at rugby fans in general.

As for the frequency thing. I agree again. League of Ireland is on every week but that's not glam enough and requires a good few downs and takes a while for success, if it comes. Too many people see their yearly trip over to Anfield/OT as a holiday and something to put on FB to be honest, it's a whole lot different than just going to a game because it's the done thing. No need to advertise it or anything, ya just go.

Before anyone has a go at me, I've only ever been to two competetive Ireland games and they were both away, one as a sun holiday and one at the Euro's. Literally a fairweather supporter. I watch every game on tv and it hurts when we lose, but I'm in no way as big an Ireland fan as those who go all the time.

Fr Tod Umptious

Super-Rush wrote: »

The sudden interest in rugby over the past few years down to the success of the teams in the 6 Nations and to a lesser extent the Heineken cup. It was the same when the football team were regularly qualifying for tournaments.

You'll see it on your Facbuke feeds which is where the gravy train fans like to hang out most, or in most pub in most towns. I do think the IRFU and the clubs has invested the money a lot wiser than the FAI have, especially at grassroots level.

As for the media attention, i think its fairly even between both sports.

With regards to Robbie Keane's media attention, i think he has generally been lauded by them. For me its the fans who seem to be always on his back and a lot don't give him the credit he deserves.

I don't care for rugby myself, i find it too slow a game. Its the fcukers who tell me i'm being unpatriotic for not supporting them is where i have a problem. You get the same with a lot of older GAA fans as well.

Truest words spoken on this thread yet

noodler

AdamD wrote: »

Nobody's denying that, but why should we suddenly pretend Keane is the best in the world at soccer?

Did you read the article?

He was pointing out that Keane's ability is incredibly high in its own right but fierce competition internationally obviously grounds him when comparisons of the best are being made.

I didn't at all read it that he was saying we should label him world class. Just that the benchmark internationally is higher than in Rugby and his achievements, often underlooked on here, are often unfairly criticised.

Not bitter at all imo. Completely agree rugby is seen differently in the Irish media although I'm less sure if I Agree with his reasons why.

WoollyRedHat

CSF wrote: »

True. Much smaller pond though. If the height of our achievements in football was to win a tournament with Northern Ireland. Wales, Scotland, England and France we would probably come a little closer to meeting public expectations.

I was going to suggest this, replicate a six nations format for football., throw in Germany or Spain too maybe.

Ranchu

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I was going to suggest this, replicate a six nations format for football.

They tried a version of it with that Celtic Nations Cup thing. Obviously it was missing Italy France and England but it was a complete disaster. Lost a truck load of money and eventually resulted in the Scottish FA suing the FAI. The highlight of it for me was watching a drunk Scottish lad fall asleep a few rows in front of us and having a revealing and embarrassing kilt malfunction and then threatening to batter everyone around him for laughing.

WoollyRedHat

Ranchu wrote: »

They tried a version of it with that Celtic Nations Cup thing. Obviously it was missing Italy France and England but it was a complete disaster. Lost a truck load of money and eventually resulted in the Scottish FA suing the FAI. The highlight of it for me was watching a drunk Scottish lad fall asleep a few rows in front of us and having a revealing and embarrassing kilt malfunction and then threatening to batter everyone around him for laughing.

Yeah well just let the FAI have miminal involvement, we all know how inept they are. France, England and Italy being in it would make it much more compelling.

Ranchu

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Yeah well just let the FAI have miminal involvement, we all know how inept they are. France, England and Italy being in it would make it much more compelling.

Definitely but it's hard to see what would be in it for France and Italy. I do think if there was a five nations style tournament involving England it would get a bit more attention.

WoollyRedHat

Ranchu wrote: »

Definitely but it's hard to see what would be in it for France and Italy. I do think if there was a five nations style tournament involving England it would get a bit more attention.

True , they'd want to see it become established before they decided it was something worth participating in.

LuckyLloyd

AdamD wrote: »

Has Robbie Keane been treated badly by the Irish press?

No, but he's been treated disgracefully by the "fans" who support Ireland. At the moment we have a very honest and hard working national team who lack quality. But they ****ing try. Read this forum around Ireland games - lots of whining about 'style of play' and other nonsense.

Irish Rugby fans endured a low period during the 80's and 90's that the recent period of Irish soccer doesn't touch. And now that we have a competitive Rugby team and have enjoyed ~15 years of great success at club level with Munster, Ulster and Leinster they are buoyant and happy. And why wouldn't they?

Here's something I've always thought illustrative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqXXsOu5dfk

In the real dark days of Irish rugby the passion of the fans never waned and they were ready to embrace any shard of light. Look at the celebrations when a relatively average Irish side (comparable to our current football side) looked like they might do something big.

I'll be there tomorrow and I know we'll have groaning, moaning and silence if we struggle in anyway.

If the media is more positive on any of this, it's only because the fanbase is more positive and appreciative imo.

CSF

Ranchu wrote: »

They tried a version of it with that Celtic Nations Cup thing. Obviously it was missing Italy France and England but it was a complete disaster. Lost a truck load of money and eventually resulted in the Scottish FA suing the FAI. The highlight of it for me was watching a drunk Scottish lad fall asleep a few rows in front of us and having a revealing and embarrassing kilt malfunction and then threatening to batter everyone around him for laughing.

Because it's competing with great football worldwide. Rugby isn't.

The_Kew_Tour

The Irish football fans were terrific back in those days too. Saw clip of Ireland v Malta in 89 and place was rocking.

NIMAN

You have to remember that Irish people are event junkies, they love a big occasion and a day out.

Rugby is the current top sport because they are enjoying good times, everyone is looking for tickets for the games even though half of them don't know the rules and probably have never watched a local rugby game in their lives.

I would say that as soon as you see Ireland come out of this great era and have a few mediocre Six Nations/WC campaigns, or see the provinces do poorly at European level, the huge amount of casual fans will soon vanish, and follow the next big thing.

Of course football fans have the bandwagoners and hangers-on too, but I think football fans are more loyal and there is a bigger pool of hardcore fans who follow through the good times and bad times.

Bridge93

NIMAN wrote: »

You have to remember that Irish people are event junkies, they love a big occasion and a day out.

Rugby is the current top sport because they are enjoying good times, everyone is looking for tickets for the games even though half of them don't know the rules and probably have never watched a local rugby game in their lives.

I would say that as soon as you see Ireland come out of this great era and have a few mediocre Six Nations/WC campaigns, or see the provinces do poorly at European level, the huge amount of casual fans will soon vanish, and follow the next big thing.

Of course football fans have the bandwagoners and hangers-on too, but I think football fans are more loyal and there is a bigger pool of hardcore fans who follow through the good times and bad times.

It has more fans as it is a far bigger sport. The hardcore of both are not more loyal and the rugby ones are not more loyal either. I don't how how you've judged it so I'll assume its nonsense. Lansdowne road was sold out alway for the rugby games through the 90s even when Ireland were ****. If the football ones were more loyal surely the Aviva would be sold out every time Ireland play as it's rare enough?

This is a pointless debate to have on a football forum. Obviously we get a football spin on it. The rugby forum would have a different viewpoint.

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

Lansdowne road was sold out alway for the rugby games through the 90s even when Ireland were ****.

No it wasn't.

We even hosted Rugby World Cup games in 1991 that didn't sell out, like Ireland Japan where it was just over half full.

Fr Tod Umptious

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Here's something I've always thought illustrative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqXXsOu5dfk

In the real dark days of Irish rugby the passion of the fans never waned and they were ready to embrace any shard of light. Look at the celebrations when a relatively average Irish side (comparable to our current football side) looked like they might do something big.

But that was a high profile game, an WC QF in Dublin v Australia.
That's a perfect example of the bandwagon.

As another poster said the fixture v Japan in the same tournament was only half full.

TINA1984

Bridge93 wrote: »

It has more fans as it is a far bigger sport....

Pretty sure the ESRI report mentioned in Ken Early's article has Football as having higher participation, attendance & club membership than Rugby. Feel free to search the publication mentioned to contradict me.

Aidric

Laughable overreaction by some people to what was a pretty perceptive and balanced article. I don't think Early set out to take sides but some people have taken it as an affront.

Like others have said we are a nation of bandwagoners and there hasn't been much of a wagon to grasp with the Irish soccer team of late.

His point about the immediacy of contact with the rugby players and them being based at home was bang on the money.

In my opinion, soccer will never capture the public imagination like it once did due to the admin structure (structure being a loose term) and coaching framework in place.

Where once the likes of Liam Brady, John Giles, and Roy Keane were produced in this country we now have Paul Mcshane and Stephen Hunt. Both great athletes but neither a great footballer. You have eejits involved in the coaching setup looking at every attribute bar what a player can do with the football

We may never see the likes of the level of Brian O'Driscoll or Paul O'Connell again, but Rugby in this country is in a really great place at the moment. We arguably have one of the top coaches in the world in charge of us.

Soccer to be fair operates on a different playing field financially but until such a time that the overseers of soccer in this country are committed to the technical development of football within the island then nothing will change. Its also worth pointing out that the provincial system or a Celtic superleague style idea would be dismissed by our fifa overlords if it was mooted.

K4t

kfallon wrote: »

Rugby is shíte tbh! Wouldn't watch it if it was on out my back garden.

AdamD wrote: »

Gotta love these superb, well reasoned posts.

He's not that far off the ball..

Someone mentioned success too, and I think that's true; look at the surge in popularity of rugby over the last decade as the national team has competed at world cups and won the six nations - plus it didn't hurt to have arguably the greatest player in the world as captain. The soccer team were frankly embarrassing at the last Euros and the widespread media and public excitement and atmosphere apparent during Korea/Japan 2002 has not really been recreated since.

At the end of the day however, soccer is obviously the more skilful sport, and the most popular globally. International soccer tournaments will always attract the most attention and garner the most respect among serious followers of sport, no matter how many six nations or world cups the rugby lads claim.

NIMAN

K4t wrote: »

...... no matter how many six nations or world cups the rugby lads claim.

Gotta disagree with this point.

If we win the Rugby WC, it will be a HUGE achievement. But don't think we ever will.

dreamers75

Brian Kerr nails it on the head here

https://twitter.com/seidodge/status/581577299750969345

The Lost Sheep

K4t wrote: »

He's not that far off the ball..

Someone mentioned success too, and I think that's true; look at the surge in popularity of rugby over the last decade as the national team has competed at world cups and won the six nations - plus it didn't hurt to have arguably the greatest player in the world as captain. The soccer team were frankly embarrassing at the last Euros and the widespread media and public excitement and atmosphere apparent during Korea/Japan 2002 has not really been recreated since.

At the end of the day however, soccer is obviously the more skilful sport, and the most popular globally. International soccer tournaments will always attract the most attention and garner the most respect among serious followers of sport, no matter how many six nations or world cups the rugby lads claim.

The success of the province is much more the reason behind the surge in popularity. The game is now being played by so many more people across the country. Clubs have expanded hugely and many clubs have been created.
Ireland have actually totally underachieved at world cups considering the strength of players at last 2 world cups.
How is soccer "obviously the more skilful sport"?
International soccer tournaments will always attract most attention as soccer is so much bigger...

dreamers75

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How is soccer "obviously the more skilful sport"?

Are you actually asking that question on the soccer forum? Do you need it to be explained to you?

Dave_The_Sheep

Yes. For kicks.

K4t

NIMAN wrote: »

If we win the Rugby WC, it will be a HUGE achievement. But don't think we ever will.

Of course it would. But it would still pale in comparison to a final appearance at the Euros or World cup. You'll quickly see how fast popularity of a sport can swing should Ireland reach an international soccer tournament final. Obviously the chances of it happening are slim but the view I think is a correct one. Rugby is popular because they're winning, and because the women like the Bowe's, the Bod's etc. It's an entertainment industry and an indulgence so much as sporting popularity; the recent success of the rugby team came at the right time too as the recession hit Ireland and it was seen as pick me up for the nation remember.

RedemptionZ

I can see rugby taking over as the second most popular sport with GAA as top. Rugby clubs are much better at recruiting and maintaining members, they're similar to the GAA in that way.

While the IRFU have done a great job at supporting the game, a lot of the blame has to go with FAI and their incompetence. The foundations are just so bad though tbf it would be a tough job for anyone. Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht all have international class players playing week in week out that locals can go to see. The LOI on the other hand is far too diluted. I know there's too much history to start over but it would ultimately be for the greater good if you could start from scratch and get some sort of province variation system going. I can't see the league going much better than static.

Also even though it's irrelevant, yes the player pool is much smaller in rugby but who gives a feck? Barely any hurling players worldwide but I can still confidently say that Henry Shefflin in his peak was world class. We're a small island nation. We're never gonna be dominating a sport like soccer. We can dominate rugby, or at least be there thereabouts. Maybe that's what draws in the casual fan?

P_1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The success of the province is much more the reason behind the surge in popularity. The game is now being played by so many more people across the country. Clubs have expanded hugely and many clubs have been created.
Ireland have actually totally underachieved at world cups considering the strength of players at last 2 world cups.
How is soccer "obviously the more skilful sport"?
International soccer tournaments will always attract most attention as soccer is so much bigger...

I'd have to agree with this. Imagine the boost you'd have if a Linfield/Cork City/Shamrock Rovers were to win the Champions League. Now it is possibly a stretch to compare the Heineken Cup with the Champions League but you can't argue with the fact that when your local team becomes the top dog, the sport will see a surge in popularity.

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I can see rugby taking over as the second most popular sport with GAA as top. Rugby clubs are much better at recruiting and maintaining members, they're similar to the GAA in that way.

While the IRFU have done a great job at supporting the game, a lot of the blame has to go with FAI and their incompetence. The foundations are just so bad though tbf it would be a tough job for anyone. Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht all have international class players playing week in week out that locals can go to see. The LOI on the other hand is far too diluted. I know there's too much history to start over but it would ultimately be for the greater good if you could start from scratch and get some sort of province variation system going. I can't see the league going much better than static.

Also even though it's irrelevant, yes the player pool is much smaller in rugby but who gives a feck? Barely any hurling players worldwide but I can still confidently say that Henry Shefflin in his peak was world class. We're a small island nation. We're never gonna be dominating a sport like soccer. We can dominate rugby, or at least be there thereabouts. Maybe that's what draws in the casual fan?

True but we'd also need the Nordies Scots and Welsh to jump in at the same go. There's not a lot of appeal in seeing FCs Leinster/Munster/Connacht/Ulster play each other 6 times a season. Plus I can't see UEFA/FIFA allowing such a thing. The advent of professionalism in rugby basically presented the unions with a blank canvas. Some got it right on both the club and country fronts (Ireland, England, South Africa and New Zealand and maybe France come to mind) some got it right on the club front (France at a push), some on the country front (Wales, Australia, Argentina, maybe Italy) and others fouled up both fronts and built a bit of a white elephant of a stadium (Scotland I'm looking at you).

RedemptionZ

K4t wrote: »

Of course it would. But it would still pale in comparison to a final appearance at the Euros or World cup. You'll quickly see how fast popularity of a sport can swing should Ireland reach an international soccer tournament final. Obviously the chances of it happening are slim but the view I think is a correct one. Rugby is popular because they're winning, and because the women like the Bowe's, the Bod's etc. It's an entertainment industry and an indulgence so much as sporting popularity; the recent success of the rugby team came at the right time too as the recession hit Ireland and it was seen as pick me up for the nation remember.

For now that's true, a soccer World Cup win would get much more support.

But there's a few things to consider there.

1: Ireland will realistically never win a soccer World Cup whereas could win a rugby World Cup. So this situation will probably never happen.

2: The kids growing up today are seeing Ireland win 6 nation tournaments and finger crossed a good World Cup campaign in rugby while they're seeing the Irish soccer team struggle to qualify for their World Cup. It's not like this is a once off either. Kids'll always follow success, particularly if it's televised.

Zzippy

Nonsense article. Never liked Ken Early, used to move the dial when he came on. Rubbish journalist who lets his preconceived opinions colour his work far too much, and a ridiculous condescending attitude to others opinions. Sounds familiar...

As for the "my sport is more skilful than yours" posts...lol. Neither are a patch on hurling but who cares, some people like apples, some prefer oranges, it doesn't mean one is better than the other. Silly stuff...



TL;DR: Can't we all just get along... without Ken Early?