Saudi Arabia - Daring to Criticise

Aidric

Sweden's foreign minister Margot Wallstrom recently denounced the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia. The reaction from Saudi Arabia:

Saudi Arabia withdrew its ambassador and stopped issuing visas to Swedish businessmen. The United Arab Emirates joined it. The Organisation of Islamic Co-operation, which represents 56 Muslim-majority states, accused Sweden of failing to respect the world’s ‘rich and varied ethical standards’ —

Scant coverage from the western media. Following on from the recent reverence shown by Western leaders on the occasion of the death of the Saudi king it seems money above morals when it comes to this kingdom.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9481542/swedens-feminist-foreign-minister-has-dared-to-tell-the-truth-about-saudi-arabia-what-happens-now-concerns-us-all/

nokia69

we should have nothing to do with the saudis

they are the scum of the earth, no different from ISIS

HandsomeDan

Aidric wrote: »

Sweden's foreign minister Margot Wallstrom recently denounced the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia. The reaction from Saudi Arabia:



Scant coverage from the western media. Following on from the recent reverence shown by Western leaders on the occasion of the death of the Saudi king it seems money above morals when it comes to this kingdom.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9481542/swedens-feminist-foreign-minister-has-dared-to-tell-the-truth-about-saudi-arabia-what-happens-now-concerns-us-all/

The entire middle east is a backward kip...

Sir Osis of Liver.

I went for a few beers with the lads after work last night and ended up getting really lashed.




That's definitely the last time we go out on the piss in Saudi Arabia

fits

It develops further. Sweden are now not selling arms to Saudie arabia as a result of the foreign ministers stand. No other countries following suit. Saudi Arabia are funding ISIS in the background too but everyone is afraid to say boo to these creeps.

PARlance

Oil be dammed....There's no way they're as bad as those other nations who just happen to have less oil, money and friends in the White House.

Galwayguy35

nokia69 wrote: »

we should have nothing to do with the saudis

they are the scum of the earth, no different from ISIS

Really?

Bit of a stretch there in that comparison, no?

Thelomen Toblackai

A few weeks ago Margot Wallström, the Swedish foreign minister, denounced the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia. As the theocratic kingdom prevents women from travelling, conducting official business or marrying without the permission of male guardians, and as girls can be forced into child marriages where they are effectively raped by old men, she was telling no more than the truth. Wallström went on to condemn the Saudi courts for ordering that Raif Badawi receive ten years in prison and 1,000 lashes for setting up a website that championed secularism and free speech. These were ‘mediaeval methods’, she said, and a ‘cruel attempt to silence modern forms of expression’

I hope other foreign ministers aren't silent on this matter and make it clear such "rich ethical standards" should not be tolerated or respected by any civilised or rational human being.

nokia69

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Really?

Bit of a stretch there in that comparison, no?

nope

more or less the same

fits

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/12/sweden-stopped-selling-arms-to-saudi-arabia

Sweden has stopped selling arms to Saudi, Why cant UK?

Should we be that surprised given the fact that Muhammad bin Saud the founding father of Saudi Arabia was also one of the originators of Wahhabism a fundamentalist offshoot of Sunni Islam. The exact ideology as ISIS and Al Quaeda etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

I fully support the Shia rebels in Yemen, the greatest con the gulf states have pulled is convincing the world they are civilized states in line with the West while Iran is seen as the enemy. i would rather be in Iran than any of the gulf states any day.

folamh

Wanting Saudi women to have the same civil freedoms as men is racist and paternalistic and imperialistic, and Saudi Arabia is a feminist utopia because women can ride bikes now. Or something.

biko

Sweden has since apologized to Saudi Arabia.
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/65830-150328-saudi-arabia-restores-their-ambassador-to-sweden

http://www.arabnews.com/featured/news/724801

Cowards.

As a side note, both Palestine and Somalia have been reaping many benefits from Sweden for a long time.
Both countries took Saudi side against Sweden as soon as the **** hit the fan. Thanks for nothing guys.

IrishTrajan

fits wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/12/sweden-stopped-selling-arms-to-saudi-arabia

Sweden has stopped selling arms to Saudi, Why cant UK?

Because the UK doesn't care what other countries do, so long as it doesn't jeopardize Western hegemony. If the Swedes don't want to sell to Saudi Arabia, then Britain will take their business.

fits

cisk wrote: »

. i would rather be in Iran than any of the gulf states any day.

Same here.

Egginacup

cisk wrote: »

Should we be that surprised given the fact that Muhammad bin Saud the founding father of Saudi Arabia was also one of the originators of Wahhabism a fundamentalist offshoot of Sunni Islam. The exact ideology as ISIS and Al Quaeda etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

I fully support the Shia rebels in Yemen, the greatest con the gulf states have pulled is convincing the world they are civilized states in line with the West while Iran is seen as the enemy. i would rather be in Iran than any of the gulf states any day.

I've been to Iran. It's stunningly beautiful.

Tugboats

Great bunch of lads. They were great in USA 94

Amirani

fits wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/12/sweden-stopped-selling-arms-to-saudi-arabia

Sweden has stopped selling arms to Saudi, Why cant UK?

Because then the French or Americans or someone else will just do it instead.

Egginacup

Shouldn't there be sanctions on Saudi Arabia?

She's been pressured to back off on it, which is unfortunate.
Pretending all muslims share the same values and culture and beliefs as the saudis was annoying on the organisation's behalf, she didn't say a word about them

My name is URL

fits wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/12/sweden-stopped-selling-arms-to-saudi-arabia

Sweden has stopped selling arms to Saudi, Why cant UK?

Because realpolitik?

It's easy to say that they should make a judgment call based solely on morality, but do you seriously think that a Tory government would pass on a deal that has been worth over £4bn in the last few years?

Also, even leaving money aside, it's in the 'best interests' of the West to keep Saudis on side due to geo-political reasons. It's nothing new and doesn't look like it'll ever change. World leaders will forever speak out of both sides of their mouths. Use human rights violations in one country to justify making deals with another who are equally as bad when it comes to human rights etc. They're all scumbags.

Pretty much sums it up.

Aidric

biko wrote: »

Sweden has since apologized to Saudi Arabia.
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/65830-150328-saudi-arabia-restores-their-ambassador-to-sweden

Cowards.

As a side note, both Palestine and Somalia have been reaping many benefits from Sweden for a long time.
Both countries took Saudi side against Sweden as soon as the **** hit the fan. Thanks for nothing guys.

Ah here..hadn't seen that although I'm hardly shocked. Folded like a cheap suit.

Egginacup

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Because then the French or Americans or someone else will just do it instead.

You think the Americans and the French DON'T arm the Saudis to the teeth?

Amirani

Egginacup wrote: »

You think the Americans and the French DON'T arm the Saudis to the teeth?

Of course they do. All the more reason for Britain to not bother ceasing sales as the other poster suggested. Slack will be picked up elsewhere.

Sand

It just goes to show why the charade of western leaders being challenged to lecture states like the Saudis or China is dangerous and short sighted. The west has huge cultural soft power which will be more effective in the long run in undermining authoritarian, regressive states than some Western politician lecturing some of the most powerful nations in the world like they're a naughty schoolchild. That's incredibly arrogant and counter-productive.

Sweden fupped up, any diplomat worth their pay cheque would have told them not to do it. They did it, they got schooled, they apologised and we progress.

So an ultra-liberal feminist criticises a backward and misogynistic (but very rich) Middle Eastern country.

And backs down.

This is fascinating and morbidly entertaining.

crockholm

Yeah,had to laugh at the whole affair-The country is a major arms exporter to often dodgy clients,and then feels the need to lecture the saudis on their treatment of women (against the wishes of the business Community) thus escelating the tiff.....but fukk me..if you saw the coverage of it here,the press had that same self-contented sense as a dog licking his own balls.

They sent reporters all over the World to guage this historic,plucky and moral act hoping to have other countries fawn over their morality and the country being a "soft-Power World leader".

And now we're back to where we were, the memories of Obumo plaudits fading fast.

So, Margot, you've dealt with the Israelis and now the saudis-who's next in pointless squabble Before complete turnaround and capitulation?

Eugene Norman

Sand wrote: »

It just goes to show why the charade of western leaders being challenged to lecture states like the Saudis or China is dangerous and short sighted. The west has huge cultural soft power which will be more effective in the long run in undermining authoritarian, regressive states than some Western politician lecturing some of the most powerful nations in the world like they're a naughty schoolchild. That's incredibly arrogant and counter-productive.

Sweden fupped up, any diplomat worth their pay cheque would have told them not to do it. They did it, they got schooled, they apologised and we progress.

I think you're over estimating western soft power, or power at all, if criticism like this ends in apologies. And that's not going to get better any time soon.

Eugene Norman

crockholm wrote: »

Yeah,had to laugh at the whole affair-The country is a major arms exporter to often dodgy clients,and then feels the need to lecture the saudis on their treatment of women (against the wishes of the business Community) thus escelating the tiff.....but fukk me..if you saw the coverage of it here,the press had that same self-contented sense as a dog licking his own balls.

They sent reporters all over the World to guage this historic,plucky and moral act hoping to have other countries fawn over their morality and the country being a "soft-Power World leader".

And now we're back to where we were, the memories of Obumo plaudits fading fast.

So, Margot, you've dealt with the Israelis and now the saudis-who's next in pointless squabble Before complete turnaround and capitulation?

If she doesn't want to have to turnaround or capitulate I suggest sticking to attacking the Catholic church, or white male patriarchy.

Alexis Sanchez

Tugboats wrote: »

Great bunch of lads. They were great in USA 94

Ironically, they were knocked out by Sweden in '94.

They were also in our group in 2002.

nokia69

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

Ironically, they were knocked out by Sweden in '94.

They were also in our group in 2002.

this was a great goal in 1994

and in 2006 they gave me a big win in the bookies when they got hammered by the Ukranie, I walked in with a smile on my face and returned the next day with an even bigger smile, and thanks to the Spanish too

in the world cup when an arab team plays a european team there is money to be made 9 times out of 10

KomradeBishop

Saudi Arabia sits on the biggest liquid oil reserves in the world. You don't sanction Saudi Arabia, they sanction you.

I don't think I've ever seen the word "rich" used so incorrectly. They need better English teachers.

Zebra3

cisk wrote: »

Should we be that surprised given the fact that Muhammad bin Saud the founding father of Saudi Arabia was also one of the originators of Wahhabism a fundamentalist offshoot of Sunni Islam. The exact ideology as ISIS and Al Quaeda etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

I fully support the Shia rebels in Yemen, the greatest con the gulf states have pulled is convincing the world they are civilized states in line with the West while Iran is seen as the enemy. i would rather be in Iran than any of the gulf states any day.

The greatest con is The West passing itself off as some sort of barometer of morality....

bb1234567

Egginacup wrote: »

I've been to Iran. It's stunningly beautiful.

Didn't 5 iranian college students get sent to jail for singing along to the song 'happy', nice country

RobertKK

Saudi Arabia is also the country that had most of the 9/11 bombers came from.
It is a terrorist financing country, along with Qatar, they helped fund ISIS.

If they had no oil, they would be told what leaders of the west really think of them.

A couple of months back I was watching CNBC , a Saudi Prince with links to terrorism was on. The Americans were falling over themselves on how great this person is.
The Saudi nation would still be in the stone age if they had no oil and gas, and nations would call out their support for terrorism and human rights abuses.

KomradeBishop

Western powers don't want a true humanitarian democracy in these oil rich countries anyway, because dictators/autocrats and the like, allow these countries resources to be controlled and run with western interests in mind, much more effectively.

I mean just look at what happened to Iran when they nationalized control over their oil industry.

The west love brutal dictators/autocrats - including outright fascists - and the CIA has an extremely long history of promoting them all over the world.
We all materially benefit from it too - our standard of living in the western world wouldn't be nearly as high as it is now, without the long history of US/NATO imperialism all across the world.

Not something all that many people are conscious of really - people really think western powers are the 'good guys', when really, there aren't actually all that many 'good guys' out there anywhere on the planet.

steddyeddy

It's much easier to criticise a scientist in a shirt than a country that treats women as third class citizens it seems.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's much easier to criticise a scientist in a shirt than a country that treats women as third class citizens it seems.

Yes, that's one fight feminists don't really have the stomach for, and it's hilarious.

In this world that we live in, money talks and BS walks.

Sand

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Not something all that many people are conscious of really - people really think western powers are the 'good guys', when really, there aren't actually all that many 'good guys' out there anywhere on the planet.

Western powers are the good guys. Dirty Harry type good guys, but the good guys all the same.

the_monkey

fits wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/12/sweden-stopped-selling-arms-to-saudi-arabia

Sweden has stopped selling arms to Saudi, Why cant UK?

Cos the UK is the biggest apologist of radical islam and with their PC bullshít and nonsense are facilitating the rapid expansion of ISIS.

BehindTheScenes

Aidric wrote: »

Sweden's foreign minister Margot Wallstrom recently denounced the subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia. The reaction from Saudi Arabia:



Scant coverage from the western media. Following on from the recent reverence shown by Western leaders on the occasion of the death of the Saudi king it seems money above morals when it comes to this kingdom.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9481542/swedens-feminist-foreign-minister-has-dared-to-tell-the-truth-about-saudi-arabia-what-happens-now-concerns-us-all/

Are you naive enough to think it was any different?

bb1234567

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Western powers don't want a true humanitarian democracy in these oil rich countries anyway, because dictators/autocrats and the like, allow these countries resources to be controlled and run with western interests in mind, much more effectively.

I mean just look at what happened to Iran when they nationalized control over their oil industry.

The west love brutal dictators/autocrats - including outright fascists - and the CIA has an extremely long history of promoting them all over the world.
We all materially benefit from it too - our standard of living in the western world wouldn't be nearly as high as it is now, without the long history of US/NATO imperialism all across the world.

Not something all that many people are conscious of really - people really think western powers are the 'good guys', when really, there aren't actually all that many 'good guys' out there anywhere on the planet.

I think this only applies to USA. Ireland and other small western countries are hardly scheming and plotting to install murderous villains into power around the third world

Nodin

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos the UK is the biggest apologist of radical islam and with their PC bullshít and nonsense are facilitating the rapid expansion of ISIS.

.....you're smoking too much of that stuff.

KomradeBishop

bb1234567 wrote: »

I think this only applies to USA. Ireland and other small western countries are hardly scheming and plotting to install murderous villains into power around the third world

Ya, we're not a part of NATO or anything, but we do materially benefit from the imperialism of NATO members - effectively.

Adamantium

Sweden's government is a feminist hellhole and ISIS and other groups would stomp over it, they have failed to protect their own citizens from the recent Muslim attackers and incidents in their own country, so I'd play little heed to what moralising they would do on weapons bans.

Sweden is engaging in moral vanity and what looks good (like some sort of college debate club) and don't have a foot to stand on in reality. They field test it and it blows up and the Saudi's laugh "WTF?, Shut up welcome to the real world"

Sweden: "But muh theories"

It seems a pick between two extremes and with there is no room for grey or moderation.

The ones that hold the guns hold the power.

the_monkey

Nodin wrote: »

.....you're smoking too much of that stuff.

I wish I was ...

end of the road

the_monkey wrote: »

Cos the UK is the biggest apologist of radical islam and with their PC bullshít and nonsense are facilitating the rapid expansion of ISIS.

lol. bull of the highist order. some ranting with the "pc" myth makes it obvious of what the persons true feelings and agenda are. there is no "pc" britains actions aren't causing any expansian of isis

end of the road

Adamantium wrote: »

Sweden's government is a feminist hellhole and ISIS and other groups would stomp over it, they have failed to protect their own citizens from the recent Muslim attackers and incidents in their own country, so I'd play little heed to what moralising they would do on weapons bans.

Sweden is engaging in moral vanity and what looks good (like some sort of college debate club) and don't have a foot to stand on in reality. They field test it and it blows up and the Saudi's laugh "WTF?, Shut up welcome to the real world"

Sweden: "But muh theories"

It seems a pick between two extremes and with there is no room for grey or moderation.

The ones that hold the guns hold the power.

a country can't always "protect" its people from an attack

LDN_Irish

end of the road wrote: »

lol. bull of the highist order. some ranting with the "pc" myth makes it obvious of what the persons true feelings and agenda are. there is no "pc" britains actions aren't causing any expansian of isis

Lies! They paved the way for IS with their politically correct (probably feminist) pro Islamic invasion of Iraq. *eye roll*