Electrical Services - Visual Inspection

noddyk

Hi,

I am looking at carrying out an Electrical Visual Inspection for a friend of mine who owns an old warehouse (1980's) , with adjoining store rooms, garage, offices etc.

I am just doing it as a favour for him, and a bit of experience for myself in this area.

Can anyone provide me with a template / checklist for helping me complete this Electrical Visual Inspection, and following report that I plan to issue him with my findings / conclusion?

Or any guidance / step by step instructions would be great!!

It will be a visual inspection only - not a periodic inspection - so no real tests etc.

Also , will I need to do a "Safe Isolation Procedure" before I remove the fuse board cover for the visual inspection of the board? If so, what does this involve?!


Help or guidance would be much appreciated.

I am an electrical engineer, but new to the building services side of things.

thanks,

cast_iron

Personally, I don't think any Electrical Engineering course alone would qualify or train a person to do this kind of work.
A trade and/or considerable on-site experience along with a degree may put a person in a much better position to know what to look for.

Could you spot poor terminations, poor workmanship, adequately date cables as to whether they need replacing, spot undersized cables, make a call on whether the installation is adequate for future use, etc.?
I would assume those are ultimately some of the calls that will need to be made.

I don't think anyone here would know the best way to isolate the fuse board without visiting the site.

noddyk

cast_iron wrote: »

Personally, I don't think any Electrical Engineering course alone would qualify or train a person to do this kind of work.
A trade and/or considerable on-site experience along with a degree may put a person in a much better position to know what to look for.

Could you spot poor terminations, poor workmanship, adequately date cables as to whether they need replacing, spot undersized cables, make a call on whether the installation is adequate for future use, etc.?
I would assume those are ultimately some of the calls that will need to be made.

I don't think anyone here would know the best way to isolate the fuse board without visiting the site.

Thanks for that.

I would have good experience in all areas mentioned above . . . Just looking for a template / checklist so as to form a bit of structure to the visual inspection.

2011

In your case I would think that your visual inspection should include but not be limited to (in no particular order):

1) Number and types of circuits.
2) Checking cable sizes and types for all of the above circuits or a fair representation of same. There may be no RCDs on socket circuits - An RCBO per socket circuit would be my recommendation.
3) Checking protective devices (ratings and types) for same.
4) Lighting is likely to be substandard and of low efficacy, check this. A quick Google tells me that according to CISBE the reccommended lighting level for a warehouse is 200 Lux, measure same.
5) Earthing (including earth pit) & bonding (is there any?). Check continuity of steel conduit and earth tags on trunking and trays.
6) Colours of conductors will be incorrect (1980's).
7) Are the loads reasonably balanced across the phases?
8) Condition of distribution board. Check that proper bus bar has been used.
9) Long cable runs: Are the cables sized properly? These are frequently undersized due.
10) Check the ESB cabinet, size of tails, main fuse, cutout, seals on meter, neutralising.
11) Check the number of points per circuit.
12) The following should be commented on: Intruder alarm, fire alarm, security lighting and emergency lighting.



I had to carry out a survey of a switch room and part of a plant not so long ago. This meant generating a report as part of a feasibility study. When carrying out the survey I photographed everything, (I mean everything). This really helped when I was back at the office and needed to jog my memory.

Be warned: If removing the cover from a live distribution board you really need appropriate training and experience. Will see if I can dig out a LOTO procedure.

Unfortunately the inspection would be incomplete without seeing this.

noddyk

2011 wrote: »

In your case I would think that your visual inspection should include but not be limited to (in no particular order):

1) Number and types of circuits.
2) Checking cable sizes and types for all of the above circuits or a fair representation of same. There may be no RCDs on socket circuits - An RCBO per socket circuit would be my recommendation.
3) Checking protective devices (ratings and types) for same.
4) Lighting is likely to be substandard and of low efficacy, check this. A quick Google tells me that according to CISBE the reccommended lighting level for a warehouse is 200 Lux, measure same.
5) Earthing (including earth pit) & bonding (is there any?). Check continuity of steel conduit and earth tags on trunking and trays.
6) Colours of conductors will be incorrect (1980's).
7) Are the loads reasonably balanced across the phases?
8) Condition of distribution board. Check that proper bus bar has been used.
9) Long cable runs: Are the cables sized properly? These are frequently undersized due.
10) Check the ESB cabinet, size of tails, main fuse, cutout, seals on meter, neutralising.
11) Check the number of points per circuit.
12) The following should be commented on: Intruder alarm, fire alarm, security lighting and emergency lighting.



I had to carry out a survey of a switch room and part of a plant not so long ago. This meant generating a report as part of a feasibility study. When carrying out the survey I photographed everything, (I mean everything). This really helped when I was back at the office and needed to jog my memory.

Be warned: If removing the cover from a live distribution board you really need appropriate training and experience. Will see if I can dig out a LOTO procedure.

Unfortunately the inspection would be incomplete without seeing this.

That's great help. Thanks very much for that. If you come across anything else you might send it on. Thanks a mill

Tefral

Genuine question, do you have PI cover to do this?

You can be held liable for any recommendation you make! Even if its a friend if he somehow loses out economically or otherwise he can sue you and will win! Just something to think about!

noddyk

cronin_j wrote: »

Genuine question, do you have PI cover to do this?

You can be held liable for any recommendation you make! Even if its a friend if he somehow loses out economically or otherwise he can sue you and will win! Just something to think about!

I won't be making any recommendations . Just surveying it's current condition and writing it up on a report !!

noddyk

How can I tell if it's a 3 phase or single phase supply ?

Risteard81

noddyk wrote: »

How can I tell if it's a 3 phase or single phase supply ?

By the number of phases?

2011

noddyk wrote: »

How can I tell if it's a 3 phase or single phase supply ?

3 phase meter, 3 phase tails, 3 x main fuses, 3 phase bus bar......

Not necessarily any 3 phase loads.

Mr Magnolia

There's a shocking amount you need to look at and be aware of as 2011 has detailed.

I'd also include:

• Cable segregation
• cable bend radius
• appropriate cable, containment & gland type used and in good condition
• discrimination
• emergency lighting, testing of same
• fire detection
• CO detection for garage

I'd need to see the installation to further comment on what's required, the above is only some of the items that come to mind. The more I think about the more I'd include but without seeing the installation...

What the warehouse is to be used for may have a bearing on your recommendations.

solargain

If you are writing a report somebody has to read it and work off the recommendations of an unqualified person for the job . Once its written & handed over you need insurance. Even if it is a friend. He won't be if it burns down 2 days later , you end up in court

2011

solargain wrote: »

If you are writing a report somebody has to read it and work off the recommendations of an unqualified person for the job . Once its written & handed over you need insurance. Even if it is a friend. He won't be if it burns down 2 days later , you end up in court

It is normal for a report following a "noninvasive" type survey to contain some "cover your ass" type statements designed to absolve the report writer from responsibility for anything that was missed / incorrect.

Having said that I would not expect these types of statements to absolve the report writer from fundamental omissions from a report that should have been glaringly obvious to a competant report writer.

The report writer should have a minimum level of skills / experience to write a report such as this.

solargain

What is the purpose of writing it then if its full of disclaimers and he cannot tell if he has 3 phase or single phase supply . What does that tell you ??

2011

solargain wrote: »

What is the purpose of writing it then if its full of disclaimers and he cannot tell if he has 3 phase or single phase supply . What does that tell you ??

Theoretically a report such as this gives an owner an appreciation of the work required to make the installation fit for purpose.

This report would normally be used to generate scope of work documentation and drawings that can be used for a tendering process.

2011

solargain wrote: »

What is the purpose of writing it then if its full of disclaimers and he cannot tell if he has 3 phase or single phase supply . What does that tell you ??

Just noticed the bit in bold, fair point.

In my opinion the OP should look for some assistance in complying this report and carrying out the survey. I agree with cast_iron's post above where he stated "Personally, I don't think any Electrical Engineering course alone would qualify or train a person to do this kind of work".

JustTheOne

noddyk wrote: »

How can I tell if it's a 3 phase or single phase supply ?

You're an electrical engineer?

2011

JustTheOne wrote: »

You're an electrical engineer?

The term "electrical engineer" is very broad, just like "electrician". Degrees and trades qualifications are all well and good, but it is experience and the type training that an individual that shapes the type of understanding that they have.

For example a engineering degree in control and automation will produce an electrical engineer that may not cover something that others would see as "fundamental" such as a star delta starter. The same applies to a "domestic electrician", although they may be very talented they may have little / no understanding of three phase systems.

2011

Degrees and trade qualifications tend to be very general.
It is the post graduation experience of an individual that enables them to specialise snd become proficient in certain areas.

There are two graduate engineers on the project that I am working on. They both achieved first class honours on a difficult degree programme so clearly they are smart and dedicated. However as recent graduates with no previous experience of working in the role of an engineer they are treated accordingly. During a degree programme concepts of engineering are taught from first principles so that a proper understanding can be gained. In reality things are done very differently particularly during the design stages of a project. This takes time to learn. Graduate engineers are not be permitted to carry certain tasks until they are deemed to have gained adequate experience in the required areas. The same applies to electricians. I remember my first day as a qualified electrician. I though "holy sh!t I am expected to have all the answers now!" and clearly I didn't. During my apprenticeship I had almost no experience of certain types of work such as testing, which concerned me. It took quite a while before I gained confidence and experience.

Many do not understand that the skillsets required of an electrical engineer is different to that required of an electrician. An electrical engineer is not supposed to be some sort of "super sparks" that somehow has all of the answers.
In my opinion the best electrical engineers are the ones that listen to the advice given by experienced electricians and try to learn from them and visa versa.

noddyk

2011 wrote: »

Theoretically a report such as this gives an owner an appreciation of the work required to make the installation fit for purpose.

This report would normally be used to generate scope of work documentation and drawings that can be used for a tendering process.

Exactly. That's the idea

Traditionalist

Is this to be the report of an Engineer or an Electrician? If an Engineer's report, then as someone has already said, you would be well advised to have Professional Indemnity insurance. Depending on the use to which the recipient will put the report subsequently, a third party may insist that the author has PI insurance.

The question asked about how to know the difference between single and 3 phase installations says a lot and shows that the person asking the question has a lot to learn yet and would cast a big doubt on the value of any report they might write.

Removing the cover from the distribution board/consumer unit was mentioned. That surely moves this out of the realm of a "visual inspection". A visual inspection should not require the use of tools or the exposure of live parts.

The original poster says he doesn't intend to do any testing. Electricity itself is obviously not visible. Only testing can bring some faults, and often the most dangerous ones, to light.

The original poster says he won't be making recommendations. Reports usually entail making recommendations. It is inevitable that the recipient will have questions - such as "what should I do to rectify these defects?" etc. If the recipient had the technical knowledge to answer that question him/herself, he/she wouldn't be asking you to report on it in the first place.

Recommendations may be based on experience and also to a large extent on standards, regulations etc. When your report is challenged in court and you have to justify it, you will need to be able to quote those standards to back up your case.

Mr Magnolia

Traditionalist wrote: »

Is this to be the report of an Engineer or an Electrician? If an Engineer's report, then as someone has already said, you would be well advised to have Professional Indemnity insurance. Depending on the use to which the recipient will put the report subsequently, a third party may insist that the author has PI insurance.

The question asked about how to know the difference between single and 3 phase installations says a lot and shows that the person asking the question has a lot to learn yet and would cast a big doubt on the value of any report they might write.

Removing the cover from the distribution board/consumer unit was mentioned. That surely moves this out of the realm of a "visual inspection". A visual inspection should not require the use of tools or the exposure of live parts.

I'd agree with all of the above apart from the bolded section. I would expect distribution boards to be opened and checked as part of any inspection, it would be nearly useless otherwise as the distribution boards make up a large section of any installation and are a could be a good indicator of standard of installation in general. I would agree that the person opening the panels needs to know what they're doing and what to look out for when it is open.

The original poster says he doesn't intend to do any testing. Electricity itself is obviously not visible. Only testing can bring some faults, and often the most dangerous ones, to light.

Some. Thermography is often used and is non-invasive (depending on installation). It's extremely effective and can determine loose connections/arcing well before any problems would be detected by the naked eye or a smoke detector!

2011

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

I would expect distribution boards to be opened and checked as part of any inspection, it would be nearly useless otherwise as the distribution boards make up a large section of any installation and are a could be a good indicator of standard of installation in general.

I was just about to make the same point. Distribution boards are the heart of an electrical installation. Inspecting these is very important especially in older installations.