Why don't TG4 use second audio stream in English ?

Strawberry HillBilly

I know TG4 are the Gaelige champion station but I think they are missing a trick and audiences by not have second audio feed in English for the likes of GAA and Rugbai Beo.

Surely they would get bigger audiences and advertising by giving the choice, even if the default commentary is still as Gaelige.

BQQ

irishgrover

How is this a face palm post? Is it because you believe that having a duel language output would go against the ethos of "learning Irish" or being an Irish channel for the few thousand native Irish speakers...?
Having a duel audio feed could help especially for sport. Whenever their is rugby on and if it's on BBC Wales or Scotland then I'll watch it their through their secondary English audio feed

brick man

I watched the Leinster v Glasgow Warriors game on Friday night on BBC2 Scotland on Freesat simply because of English commentary . I would much prefer to watch on TG4 and support our own station but my Irish is poor . It would be great if they done a second audio but I'd say its like everything it is down to cost. I must email them and see what they say

glic83

I agree with the above posts would be great if they had a second audio option like S4C and bbc alba do also.

Elmo

I disagree. The channel has enough costs without adding dual audio.

TG4 audience for sport are possibly as good as they can be for sporting events even in English (Over 100,000 on most occassions). I'd say TV3 and UTV Ireland are missing a trick by not investing in such sports.

Sport is there to be watched does it really matter what language the commentary is in? Names are the same, you can probably count As Geailge and all of the graphics remain the same no matter the language.

IMO TG4 should move to provide graphics in English that relate to the Irish language commentary e.g. Goal/Cúl no rúd mar sin.

twinklerunner

brick man wrote: »

I watched the Leinster v Glasgow Warriors game on Friday night on BBC2 Scotland on Freesat simply because of English commentary . I would much prefer to watch on TG4 and support our own station but my Irish is poor . It would be great if they done a second audio but I'd say its like everything it is down to cost. I must email them and see what they say

I did the same. Mind you, that Scottish commentator wasn't great .. getting player's names wrong etc. I agree though that it was nice to have the commentary in English.

Sam Russell

I would prefer the second audio stream was without the commentator - just the crowd and referee. I can see for myself what is happening particularly if it is in HD.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

I disagree. The channel has enough costs without adding dual audio.
.

The costs would be offset by the increase in revenue due to an increase in audience figures.

In the past TG4 have said that it was not technically possible to have dual audio.......

brick man

twinklerunner wrote:

I did the same. Mind you, that Scottish commentator wasn't great .. getting player's names wrong etc. I agree though that it was nice to have the commentary in English.

Yes and he was saying Irish players instead of Leinster and Tg4 would have bigger audience if they had English commentary option.

Elmo

brick man wrote: »

Yes and he was saying Irish players instead of Leinster and Tg4 would have bigger audience if they had English commentary option.

Even when RTÉ2 broadcast the Pro12 League it attained the same amount of viewers as TG4.

glic83

Elmo wrote: »

Even when RTÉ2 broadcast the Pro12 League it attained the same amount of viewers as TG4.

Most people have said in this thread that they watch it elsewhere for English commentary rather than on TG4 where possible if they had the 2 audio option this might not be the case.

Elmo

glic83 wrote: »

Most people have said in this thread that they watch it elsewhere for English commentary rather than on TG4 where possible if they had the 2 audio option this might not be the case.

This is one very short thread, many people watch sports on the UK channels even when broadcast by RTÉ/TV3 this isn't unusual, others will opt for UK broadcasters as they are available on whatever platform in HD. TG4 is only available in HD on UPC.

Indeed perhaps TV3 should have a second audio from ITV for their champion leagues coverage.

dublinman1990

I would like to have a second audio option for rugby match commentary streams on TG4. There is another thing though; the picture quality on BBC 2 Nations and BBC Alba showing the rugby on Free Satellite is also marginally better than TG4 on Saorview.

glic83

Elmo wrote: »

This is one very short thread, many people watch sports on the UK channels even when broadcast by RTÉ/TV3 this isn't unusual, others will opt for UK broadcasters as they are available on whatever platform in HD. TG4 is only available in HD on UPC.

Indeed perhaps TV3 should have a second audio from ITV for their champion leagues coverage.

Fair enough, it is a short thread and I can only speak for myself here when I say that I watch it elsewhere in sd instead of hd on upc for the 2nd audio option, but surely this would be in TG4's favour if they could add this option.

brick man

Elmo wrote:

Even when RTÉ2 broadcast the Pro12 League it attained the same amount of viewers as TG4.

RTE usually had double to treble TG4 viewing figures as I remember

Elmo

brick man wrote: »

RTE usually had double to treble TG4 viewing figures as I remember

I remember them both getting between 150,000 and 250,000 (neither get above 200,000 all that often). The final on both channels, RTÉ2 won - in fairness though.

Brings me back to why TV3 and UTV Ireland seem to take no interest in the sports that TG4 provide!

brick man

Elmo wrote:

Brings me back to why TV3 and UTV Ireland seem to take no interest in the sports that TG4 provide!

The only thing they are interested in is soaps cheap reality tripe and studio based programmes

salmocab

I like watching games on TG4. don't understand a word but sometimes its better to not know what they are saying than to hear and get annoyed at the utter tripe that some commentators spout. I know I could turn the volume down but it seems odd not being able to hear the crowd.

An Ciarraioch

Interestingly, even though Wales only has two major sports, S4C's viewing figures (63k) are still below TG4's, despite the English audio channel. Of course, it's something the station bosses should investigate in terms of feasibility, but given that subtitling documentaries doesn't seem to raise ratings, like Elmo I'm sceptical whether viewership would rise dramatically.

alias no.9

I'd rather listen to the Welsh / Scots Gaelic than the delayed ponderous monotonic English commentary that comes on the second stream, at least then I can be insulated from the cluelessness of it all.

Elmo

The other problem are the platform operators

Soarview & Sky don't even have TG4HD
Sky & UPC AFAIK don't have digital aertel
Only RTÉ is set up for AD is it available on either sky or UPC?

Ger Byrne 1

it would be great to be able to have commentary for these games instead of just watching it

longgonesilver

But some of the live games do have a secondary English audio broadcast. It is on the radio.

twinklerunner

longgonesilver wrote: »

But some of the live games do have a secondary English audio broadcast. It is on the radio.

.. and usually out of sync with tv pictures

Wabbit Ears

Infoanon wrote:

The costs would be offset by the increase in revenue due to an increase in audience figures.

I sincerely doubt it. The cost of implementing this would be huge with additional cost of ongoing supply of the extra audio feed. You also have to factor in the increase cost of bandwidth to carry a second audio feed plus the knock on requirements to carry the feed on sky's sat feeds and upcs mux's.

This isn't something where you can just flip a switch and by free magic it works.

khumbu

A cheap method for TG4 to provide English commentary for live GAA games would be to offer the "premier sport" audio broadcast in UK as alternative sound track. They source their vision feed from TG4!

Tedddy

I think it would be a huge cost for little gain. It may cause a small rise in rugby viewership figures but I think it would have little affect on GAA matches. GAA viewers have grown accustomed to matches in Irish so it would have little effect.

Strawberry HillBilly

@Tedddy don't agree with your point re:GAA viewers are used to it. Case in point last Sunday, struggled to watch the KK v CE match until I synced up Clare FM as the audio but didn't bother to even try the same with the Waterford match afterwards.

I definitely think TG4 would increase audiences and advertising by implementing this option.

As a means to measure the willingness for viewers to select audio as English or Irish where both were available has anyone got any idea on the match viewing figures when TV3/3E simulcasted All Ireland minor final matches in English /Irish ?

Elmo

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

As a means to measure the willingness for viewers to select audio as English or Irish where both were available has anyone got any idea on the match viewing figures when TV3/3E simulcasted All Ireland minor final matches in English /Irish ?

No but a few notes on that. TV3 aired the game in English on its main service and 3e isn't as well established or wasn't back then. Again we pointed out that The finals of the Pro-12 did better on RTÉ2 even with the simulcast on TG4 As Geailge.

RTÉ2 have since dropped their pro-12 coverage and neither TV3 or UTV Ireland seem all that interested in any of the sports that TG4 provide, which must mean that they do not believe that they can achieve more than 150,000 viewers that TG4 get for most of their sports. (Excluding Wimbledon, which was dropped from RTÉ because according to them more people watched it on the BBC.). Why didn't they just broadcast BBC coverage?

beauf

Isnt the point to promote Irish?

Is their income related to how much Irish content they broadcast? Grants or licence fee % etc.

Elmo

beauf wrote: »

Isnt the point to promote Irish?

Is their income related to how much Irish content they broadcast? Grants or licence fee % etc.

I don't think so. They provide the government with a type of charter every 4 years which the minister agrees to, currently they have to re-submit their charter was the BAI and Department thought it unrealistic.

Providing an English audio feed wouldn't diminish their Irish content in any case, as they also provide an Irish feed.

They could pick up the English feed from the local radio station, that would be of public benifit? First half from Radio Kerry, Second half from C106!

Melodeon

TG4 would be my channel of absolute last resort for the rugby.
I'd only watch it if there was no alternative of any sort available; even when the Welsh and Scottish Gaelic channels don't have a Red Button alternative audio stream, they would get preference as they still do a fair smattering of English in their 'first language' commentary.

Rugby channel selection priority list:
English commentary > Red Button alternative audio stream > first language commentary with some English > TG4.

PeterDuggan

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

I know TG4 are the Gaelige champion station but I think they are missing a trick and audiences by not have second audio feed in English.

Good idea and better still if they'd just drop that Irish nonsense.

lertsnim

PeterDuggan wrote: »

Good idea and better still if they'd just drop that Irish nonsense.

Yeah damn those people who like something you don't.

PeterDuggan

lertsnim wrote: »

Yeah damn those people who like something you don't.

Have I stirred the gomaile brigade? :-)

icdg

The status or otherwise of the Irish langauge is not a matter for discussion here

Mallagio

icdg wrote: »

The status or otherwise of the Irish langauge is not a matter for discussion here

You must be one of the biggest plonkers ever to mod. Bold writing and an ego to match a copper..... I'd say you'd love to be a copper, wouldn't ya?

"we don't bring up old threads"...... - Thats cheese.

Noticeable you don't actually bring anything to a thread worth reading, it's either I'm the boss here and say no more, you're banned or "we don't bring up old threads"

All hot air and bull.

icdg

Two week ban. Bold writing for moderation is now accepted practice across Boards.ie and the dragging up old threads rule is something we've been enforcing for fifteen years.

Next ban is permanent

(edit) I note you closed your account straight after posting this. If you ever reopen it your two week ban will start from your first post after reopening.

STB.

icdg wrote: »

The status or otherwise of the Irish langauge is not a matter for discussion here

TG4 is the public service broadcaster for Irish-language speakers.

Doing away with the Irish language in that context was a trolling remark, in my opinion.

Anyhow. Why dont they do an alternative language stream. Well I guess the long and short of it is, beside the obvious prurpose of its remit is that it would cost more money. Also they have in the past held only Irish Language broadcasting rights in the broadcasting of sports events, Rugby springs to mind.

afatbollix

It would cost nothing to set up. Sky would be able to offer it very easily with equipment all ready installed. (Currently where I work send 6 channels of audio to sky)

Do TG4 want to bring it in is another question.

An Ciarraioch

afatbollix wrote: »

It would cost nothing to set up. Sky would be able to offer it very easily with equipment all ready installed. (Currently where I work send 6 channels of audio to sky)

Do TG4 want to bring it in is another question.

I figure the main consideration here, as for the GAA coverage, is whether they consider 100-150k to be their maximum audience in any event. Of course, you can't disprove a null argument, but presumably they feel their reach can't be improved.

OldRio

afatbollix wrote: »

It would cost nothing to set up. Sky would be able to offer it very easily with equipment all ready installed. (Currently where I work send 6 channels of audio to sky)

Do TG4 want to bring it in is another question.

To be honest if TG4 wanted to add another stream, I would prefer it to be done via Saorview. Paying a subscription to Sky to watch Irish TV? Makes no sense.

icdg

But some people do, and they are licence fee/taxpayers too. Do they deserve to be punished with a lesser service for their licence fee/taxes for having taken up Sky. Whatever about TV3 & UTV, RTE and TG4 have a duty to be platform neutral wherever possible. Of course the reality is that due to the unsustainable pricing structure adopted for Saorview, companies other than RTE (who ultimately get their money back) are finding it uneconomic to launch new services on it.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

But some people do, and they are licence fee/taxpayers too. Do they deserve to be punished with a lesser service for their licence fee/taxes for having taken up Sky. Whatever about TV3 & UTV, RTE and TG4 have a duty to be platform neutral wherever possible. Of course the reality is that due to the unsustainable pricing structure adopted for Saorview, companies other than RTE (who ultimately get their money back) are finding it uneconomic to launch new services on it.

The problem with Saorview is a political problem which the Minister is part of - and is unwilling to do anything about.

Saorview should be the paramount platform for broadcasting in Ireland, and it should be part of the terms of broadcasting in Ireland that Saorview is used for broadcasting by those licensed, and the services must appear on it - including HD, and plus 1 services. OTV, TV3 + 1 etc should all be required to appear on Saorview if they appear on another platform.

As for pricing, this is all to do with restricting RTE and its use of two of its four Saorview channels - preventing it from getting advertising revenue. The worst type of political interference with our nation broadcaster.

icdg

Sam Russell wrote: »

Saorview should be the paramount platform for broadcasting in Ireland, and it should be part of the terms of broadcasting in Ireland that Saorview is used for broadcasting by those licensed, and the services must appear on it - including HD, and plus 1 services. OTV, TV3 + 1 etc should all be required to appear on Saorview if they appear on another platform.

.

The reality is that would mean the closure of Oireactas TV, TG4 HD, TV3+1 and Setanta Ireland and the mean the end of Irish programming on Setanta Sports 1. But we are going off topic here.

Sam Russell

No, it would mean changing the way Saorview is allowed to charge and would help all channels operate on Saorview. Currently TG4 want to go HD but cannot because of the charging structure.

Machinehead

I've been on to TG4 re dual commentary on various programmes especially in connection with their sports output.
This was the response:
"Go raibh maith agat. Thanks for your feedback. We do try to make our sports (and other output) as accessible as we can to those not fluent in Irish. Live coverage poses a particular challenge and while we are piloting live translated subtitles - but this is tricky as the action in all the sports we cover far outstrip the human capacity to describe them and translate.
I do appreciate that other Celtic broadcasters offer a dual-language option for commentary. There are technical constraints on TG4's ability to do so but I'd also have to say that for rugby, our clock, ref-link inserts and graphics as well as pre and post-match interviews as aimed at making the offering as accessible as we can. We are an Irish language channel. That is our USP. From the outset all of our sports commentary - GAA, racing, cycling, horse-racing etc has been in Irish. We need to be careful not be be accused by our competitors of duping by using funding allocated to us for Irish language purposes to buy sports rights and then offer coverage in another language (something that our competitors could have done)."

Elmo

Machinehead wrote: »

"...We need to be careful not be be accused by our competitors of duping by using funding allocated to us for Irish language purposes to buy sports rights and then offer coverage in another language (something that our competitors could have done)."

No doubt when it was brought up in the Dail at a committee in 2010 TV3 quickly wrote to FG, TG4 and the Minister for communications with that line.

Of course TG4 competitor could always have bought the rights to those sporting event, I doubt that TG4 ever had any competition for those sports rights. Setanta being the exception and each time setanta has bought those rights.

Strawberry HillBilly

@Elmo, do you have link to Dail committee proceedings in 2010. If TG4 continued to offer the sports in Irish but with English as an additional "red button" option this would surely circumvent any competitors argument.

Elmo

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

@Elmo, do you have link to Dail committee proceedings in 2010. If TG4 continued to offer the sports in Irish but with English as an additional "red button" option this would surely circumvent any competitors argument.

I think the question was asked by Brian Hayes in 2010 just towards the end of the last government. I did a quick search I couldn't find it I will try again later.

The position at the time was that TG4 were looking into it. AFAIR