Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

danganabu

meathhurler48 wrote: »

The present squad can then go on to win again in style.

I think this sentence is what is adding to a lot of peoples frustration, Waterford have as much talent as any county and many people, myself included I must admit, feel that the negative tactics been employed are both defeatist and are also holding back some extremely talented hurlers.

Waterford's current system will not win an AI and I would put a lot of money on that!

blue note

God I'd love to win an all Ireland playing like this.

Firstly to prove it can be done. In spite of the fact that our results have been excellent everyone insists it's because of the time of the year. We were beaten last year by better teams on the day, not by our own system.

Secondly to see all the other counties then try to emulate it and either insist that what they're doing is completely different or insist that it is now entertaining. Or if they don't have the players to implement it they'll still insist that the system is rubbish and they'd rather lose the traditional way than play this muck.

And finally, because it's absolutely ****ing love to win an all Ireland!

danganabu

PTH2009 wrote: »

Attendance did seem higher than was announced ???

A regular occurrence in Semple, I was actually there once cant remember what game, think it was V Galway 2014 and the announcement of the attendance was actually greeted with a huge outburst of laughter it was so far off the mark.

There is a automated clock in the counting room under the old stand that is supposed to record every time a pedal is pressed in the stiles, it certainly needs to be replaced as it doesn't record half of them. Both the Munster Council and Croke Park have been on to them over it and the figures announced are not taken as the official attendance for accounting records.

mountgomery burns

danganabu wrote: »

A regular occurrence in Semple, I was actually there once cant remember what game, think it was V Galway 2014 and the announcement of the attendance was actually greeted with a huge outburst of laughter it was so far off the mark.

There is a automated clock in the counting room under the old stand that is supposed to record every time a pedal is pressed in the stiles, it certainly needs to be replaced as it doesn't record half of them. Both the Munster Council and Croke Park have been on to them over it and the figures announced are not taken as the official attendance for accounting records.

Would the scanners not pick up the amount of people going through in an all ticket event?

Tramore84

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Some thoughts on the general state of play:


1) Progression

I have noticed a lot of dismay at no obvious signs of progression this year. I'm not exactly sure what was expected but I'd like to offer a counterpoint or two to the worries about the attack. This time last year, Maurice Shanahan and Paudie Mahony were the two best forwards on the Waterford team. Could you imagine last year knowing they wouldn't be available against Tipp in Thurles this year, or in a league semi and final? Do you think we would have thought we'd beat Tipp, score 3-23 against Limerick or be a last minute of additional time free from winning the league again?

Last year Shane Bennett played very well for his age but he has come on a lot in the space of a year and his been outstanding this year. Patrick Curran only came late into the panel, and has made some strides in 12 months. He was outstanding in the air on Sunday, tough as nails. Their mettle will be tested in the championship but with Maurice back you go from a forward line dependent on one player to one with options. There's room for improvement but let's not forget it's May.

I think some people believe the backline and midfield cannot get any better than last year but the very addition of a fit Darragh Fives is huge, even in terms of the options it gives. And I think there was plenty of scope for improvement all the same and I think the duly have improved.

2) The System

There really is too much talk about this. An extra man comes from midfield to cover center back while the center back drops in front of the full back. A corner forward roams around the middle to provide support play, and pace to attack and create overlaps in the opposition defense. And when not in position the team work to get back, work very hard. It's really not that complicated, intricate or indeed original. But it is effective and it has helped cultivate a belief that we can win every day we go out. Which was some turnaround from 2014.

But it cannot be used as the basis for how every game is won/lost. At the end of the day, the team did everything right except put the ball over the bar on Sunday. I agree that playing with reduced numbers and deeper lines means that when the ball moves quickly up the field sometimes a long range shot is the only or most convenient option. But I do think on Sunday there was some poor shooting from play and particularly from frees. What I think is being missed though is that when you work so hard to create chances and win frees it can get on top of you fairly easily when you miss a few. I believe there was a chain reaction on Sunday to that, and the confidence was dented. That can happen any day you go out, god knows there were days we hit plenty of wides in the heyday of Waterford hurling's attacking prowess. And there was no system to blame then!

The talent and work rate of the players first and foremost wins them games, how they setup (as has been proven by some imitations) merely complements their abilities.

3) Contenders

Now the most bemusing thing of all is the fact that we are being written off in some quarters to not being able to win later in the summer, that ultimately we are heading down the same road as last year. The bottom line is Waterford have not played a championship match since Kilkenny last year. They won the league already last year, so I think there's this expectation that unless they win every game by 10 points this year they haven't improved and it will be the same story.

I think that is beyond unrealistic. Ultimately, they cannot improve on last year's championship until they actually play in this year's championship. There is a tendency too I think to laud displays of great attacking flair where defense is neglected and bias towards it where great defense isn't heralded the same way. Clare beating Kilkenny a prime example of that, it was bizarre to see three pundits on Seo Spoirt on Friday tipping Clare to win. Despite what Waterford have done in the past year, a unanimous verdict in favour of Clare. Case and point really.

Moreover, we know enough about the heartbreak a leaky defense can cause. It's got a very talented Tipperary team beaten on more occasions in big matches now than bears mentioning. And further still, there are plenty of question marks over a lot of teams. Tipperary are not contenders according to their own, would not rule them out but at the same time it's hard to see what has been found that has not been there in the last 5 seasons. Galway could still be contenders, it's not beyond them, but it will be a tough road for them. Clare might well be, they are still missing a few but again they have more to prove than Waterford in my opinion.

And Kilkenny are still rightfully the favourites and are until they are knocked out, but the bottom line is Tyrell is gone, Power is gone, Aylward is injured, Mick Fennelly managed to get himself fit 3 times last year and was massive but you're expecting a lot to think that can continue, and Larkin has not hit a ball in the first 5 months of the year. It's not getting any easier for them, and the assumption that they'll all be available is exactly that. And when you assume...etc


If Waterford keep bringing the tenacity to matches the way they have done so far this year and can stay as relatively injury free as they have been to be fair in the past two seasons, then they will be contenders. And in May, there is no more than you can ask for.

Agreed. Waterford players are basically being criticised for working hard for each other, is there not an irony in this given that previous teams were criticised for being too individualistic?. Its no coincidence that we are now as consistent as we have ever been, everyone has bought into the work ethic. We should be very proud of the way these players consistently work for each other in every game.

PTH2009

Can feel a Galway match for us this summer. A team we have a 100% championship victory record against

By law of average they will beat us sometime, same can be said for us against Kilkenny and Tipperary.

Galway are steeped with there draw. They play the winners of the Leinster group stage in the Leinster quarter final and then the winners of the Laois/runners up of the group stage qf in the semis. As expected they win those they will be guaranteed at least an all Ireland quarter final place.

The qualifiers are and always will be a dangerous place to be. For the sake of the Waterford players we must must win on June 5th to escape these. Drawing Wexford or Dublin (or god forbid Kilkenny) in the round 1 of the qualifiers could do fatal damage to our ambitions for the year.

In the last 5 years we were in the qualifiers twice (2013,2014).

2013 was a older system and we got drawn with the hardest team possible in our section Offaly and after a hard fought win we beat Westmeath only to lose out to Kilkenny after ET for a place in the All Ireland QF that year.

2014 with a new championship system introduced we got a tricky draw at home to laois and then lost out to our bogey team Wexford in the 2nd Round

deiseach

When it comes to the Brick, I always think of a Tipperary's fans outburst I heard during the League game against them in 2013: “stop hitting it anywhere near the f***in’ Brick!” There was respect there, envy even. And that don't come easy from Tipperary folk. A great.

deiseach

The recorded attendance looks about right to me. It's a good idea to close the terraces, although it means my wife can't be allowed go. She considers it a crime against humanity to be sitting in the same stand as even one opposition fan. Thousands of them = World War III.

danganabu

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Would the scanners not pick up the amount of people going through in an all ticket event?

It would, or at least should! I have never worked the stiles there for an all ticket game so not really sure.

danganabu

deiseach wrote: »

When it comes to the Brick, I always think of a Tipperary's fans outburst I heard during the League game against them in 2013: “stop hitting it anywhere near the f***in’ Brick!” There was respect there, envy even. And that don't come easy from Tipperary folk. A great.

Noel McGrath was shocking the same day, don't think he even made it to half time.

robopaddy2

Deskjockey wrote: »

Ok, bear with me on this...

I know Brick is a great ball winner in the forwards, and has been a tremendous servant over the years, but is there an argument to be made that the likes of another big unit like Devine would do as good a job up there and in contrast to Brick would be able to strike the ball as well as having the option of passing to someone with more space.

Looking at the match last weekend there was a particular play where Brick was in possession in a bit of space but just hadn't the confidence to go for his point 40 yards out and looked to pass to someone in a worse position than him. At times he seems as if his only play is to get the ball and then win the free. When it works it's great, and our free taker pops it over, but when you see him winning the ball and then immediately taking the ball into contact and going straight to ground, sometimes I wonder would we be better off having someone who can win the ball and who also poses a scoring threat.

Heresy I know, but I'd be interested in people's views

I think it's only when Brick goes we'll appreciate how much he brings. To be honest I was in awe of him on Sunday. His work rate is just phenomenal. How he keeps going I don't know. Absolute punishment on the body. Running, tracking down, harrying. Using every ounce of energy he has. And it's not in vain either, he will always contribute something to every play he's involved in. What you would call a headless chicken, brick is the polar opposite. He is so efficient with his energy to quote conor mcgregor. On Tom Devine I hate to be hard on the lad but I thought he was poor when he came on. He is not as near effective as Brick, different gravy altogether. His shooting radar was way off and didn't track his man well at all. But he's good at getting on the ball, there's definitely potential there. But he's light years off brick

PTH2009

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I think it's only when Brick goes we'll appreciate how much he brings. To be honest I was in awe of him on Sunday. His work rate is just phenomenal. How he keeps going I don't know. Absolute punishment on the body. Running, tracking down, harrying. Using every ounce of energy he has. And it's not in vain either, he will always contribute something to every play he's involved in. What you would call a headless chicken, brick is the polar opposite. He is so efficient with his energy to quote conor mcgregor. On Tom Devine I hate to be hard on the lad but I thought he was poor when he came on. He is not as near effective as Brick, different gravy altogether. His shooting radar was way off and didn't track his man well at all. But he's good at getting on the ball, there's definitely potential there. But he's light years off brick

I think brick may go at the conclusion of this year not long followed by Kevin Moran(about 2/3 years left I'd say), SOS and iggy. Noel Connors is about my age and I consider 26 old so he will be retired soon (about 5 more years)

Some ex Waterford players retired relatively young (Mullane, Stephen Molumphy, Eoin Kelly, Eoin McGrath, Shane Walsh) while the legend Tony Browne played for years

I would of tipped Devine to take over bricks role when he goes

Who's coming up underage that may be on the senior Panel in next year or two ?

JesusRef

Brick may not be the best Hurler in the country...
But he is without a doubt one of the best players

The guy is phenomenal - he makes the opposing backs life hell - he will chase down lost causes all day and he is a brilliant tackler (he made P.Mahers life hell in the munster final last year even though he was out-numbered)
He is so smart on the ball and always makes good use of possession, how many times has been surrounded by 3-4 players and still got a ball away, he is obviously a brilliant leader - and leads in the best way - by example.

Remember he was out midfield giving plenty of it to the likes of Jerry O'connor more than ten years ago, still at it.

I have so much admiration for the guy - what a man

Alf Tupper

How anyone could question the Brick is sacrilege. This lad is a phenomenon.

The Brick is our latter day Tom Cheasty, unwieldy with a hurley but oh so effective and a natural leader.

He is our go to guy. We'll only really miss him when he's gone.

Forgive the pun, but the Brick is the stone the builders rejected. He is central to everything we do, on and off the field.

He's the MAN. Lads like him only come around once in a generation.

In years to come when players have come and gone, the Brick will be remembered and spoken fondly of in the same way as Flynner, Ken, Dan and Tony etc,

Dick phelan

This year is the best chance at an all Ireland we have had in years imo, People will say the team is not quite there yet however when you look at the opposition around i cannot see why we shouldn't believe we can beat everyone, KK are still the team to beat but there not a patch on the team that dominated for so long, There first team is still outstanding but as a squad they lack real depth, Galway seem a bit of a mess atm, they have the players but i really don't see them having a great year this time around, Tipperary, i'v watched them numerous times during the League, they are a quality team but again not as good as the one that had the likes of Kelly, Corbett ect, Cork are a mile off what they once were, Limerick are still at least a year away from being real contenders imo, Clare along with KK i see as possibly the toughest opposition, quality forwards and real depth to the squad. The reason i say this is our best chance in years is because imo there is no real outstanding team around. While we might improve again next year i expect the likes of Limerick, Galway probably Tipp to be stronger then what i see this year, we're by no means favorites but at our best i think we win the AI.

Tramore84

I don't agree with that Brick is indispensable. Lads he used to stand out because of his fitness and hurling intelligence but his place in the side should not be guaranteed anymore. His ball striking is nit great and for a guy who is great in the air, i never saw him win even 50/50/of his own ball against KK in championship.Think he is playing well this year but dropping him shouldnt be out of the question if his form dips.

JesusRef

Tramore84 wrote: »

I don't agree with that Brick is indispensable. Lads he used to stand out because of his fitness and hurling intelligence but his place in the side should not be guaranteed anymore. His ball striking is nit great and for a guy who is great in the air, i never saw him win even 50/50/of his own ball against KK in championship.Think he is playing well this year but dropping him shouldnt be out of the question if his form dips.

the same applies to every player on every team, if they are not playing well and don't deserve a spot you have to hand the jersey to the next guy.

Not sure you are singling our brick at this moment, he is playing very well and is vital to out numbered forward line functioning, maintaining possession, drawing in defender and creating overlaps etc

robopaddy2

Going back to the minors lads, a good win and a decent minor team this year, but I fear it's our last decent group for a while, looking at what's coming behind them. I'm close to the underage development setup myself and the one thing we need to do is get the Dungarvan schools back involved in the Harty cup. It has been a huge breeding ground for us at underage level in recent years, however Dungarvan haven't had a team in a couple years as the CBS is too small to compete by itself and the combined schools were banned following their dominance in 2012/13. We only have 2 schools being DLS and Blackwater who realistically have a small enough catchment area that they are not going to be Competitive every year. Looking at our senior starting 15 on Sunday, particularly the lads who have broken through over the past few years, it's not to be underestimated the role that schools hurling has played in the development of these lads. Playing county minor you might only get a game or 2 but Harty Cup allows 4 or 5 tough competitive games over a 2 or 3 year period and that is where many of our young players went from strength to strength. I'm surprised that we have simply rolled over and accepted the Munster PP council's decision on this to penalise the combined colleges side for having a strong group in 2012 and 2013, however it seems west Limerick colleges are allowed enter a team. There really is too much at steak, we will fall back behind the other Munster counties again sooner rather than later if this isn't addressed... hopefully the schools themselves recognize the role they can play

cornerboy

Agreed RoboP re the colleges set up. The combined Dungarvan teams allowed young guys from small rural clubs to come through and develop in a higher level enviornment than they would experience in their clubs many of which are football orientated. Guys from Modeligo, Brickeys, Bonmahon, etc contributed hugely to the Minor AI and have carried on through the ranks.

conditioned games

The Munster council must be a very sad organisation if the only reason they can put forward for banning the combined Dungarvan schools team was because they actually won the Harty in 2012/2013 when a strong group came through.

They should look at entering into the Leinster competition where there are about 8/9 combined schools teams including an Antrim schools team.

thesultan

Paddy Joe hopes to wipe €100,000 off our debt, will they finally stop the levies from the club's?

danganabu

conditioned games wrote: »

The Munster council must be a very sad organisation if the only reason they can put forward for banning the combined Dungarvan schools team was because they actually won the Harty in 2012/2013 when a strong group came through.

They should look at entering into the Leinster competition where there are about 8/9 combined schools teams including an Antrim schools team.

It wasn't the Munster Councils decision for starters.

And the reason that amalgamations were stopped had a hell of a lot more to do with Dungarvan amalgamation, for some unknown reason Dungarvan main school were allowed participate in the 'B' competition at the same time and of course with 75% of the combined team and went and won the B in a canter the week after the Harty, that was taking the piss.

FWIW at least one of the Waterford School delegates voted in favour of stopping amalgamations.

I'm sure Leinster would welcome them with open arms!!

JesusRef

danganabu wrote: »

It wasn't the Munster Councils decision for starters.

And the reason that amalgamations were stopped had a hell of a lot more to do with Dungarvan amalgamation, for some unknown reason Dungarvan main school were allowed participate in the 'B' competition at the same time and of course with 75% of the combined team and went and won the B in a canter the week after the Harty, that was taking the piss.

FWIW at least one of the Waterford School delegates voted in favour of stopping amalgamations.

I'm sure Leinster would welcome them with open arms!!

It was a freak crop though - and it is a bit of a one off - stopping the Waterford colleges based on that doesn't seem to make sense to me.

The mid county badly needs it, dungarvan CBS is a small school, only lads in the far east and west of the county are being exposed to Harty now - a whole host of players in the middle of the county are missing that opportunity - the Dungarvan Colleges wouldn't even be that competitive now

danganabu

JesusRef wrote: »

It was a freak crop though - and it is a bit of a one off - stopping the Waterford colleges based on that doesn't seem to make sense to me.

The mid county badly needs it, dungarvan CBS is a small school, only lads in the far east and west of the county are being exposed to Harty now - a whole host of players in the middle of the county are missing that opportunity - the Dungarvan Colleges wouldn't even be that competitive now

I agree, my point really was that the decision was not based only on the Waterford Colleges situation, there was also Limerick and Kerry amalgamations.

Amalgamations are very tricky business indeed and where do you draw the line, I was actually asked by a delegate that was attending that meeting for my opinion and I advised him to vote in favour of allowing them but that the criteria and rules needed tightening. My reason for being in favour is that it exposes a larger number of players to a higher level of hurling, surely only a good thing.

But like all votes it was ruled by self serving and short sighted delegates voting only with their own self-vested interests in mind ( including a Waterford School and a well know Limerick school who obviously didn't appreciate the competition despite the fact that their own numbers far out number either of the Limerick or Waterford amalgamations.

Turkeys wont vote for Christmas and for that reason motions like this will enivitably result in the wrong outcome.

PTH2009

Another draw would not be a surprise Sunday and both county boards will be tearing there hair out if another replay has to played on the 14/15 May and the county championship has to moved again. The 1993 league final took 2 replays between Cork and Wexford to find a winner.

Can we share the cup lol or can they just play til there's a winner (which they should of done last Sunday imo).

Does anyone expect many changes to the team ??. Expecting at least one Change if Shane Fives is out, wonder will Pauric Mahony get a start

IanVW

Waterford
1 S O'Keeffe
2 SFives
3BCoughlan
4NConnors
5de Burca
6A Gleeson
P Mahony
8J Barron
8D Fives
10 KMoran
11S Bennett
12MWalsh
13P Curran
14Dillon
15TDevine

Niallers87

IanVW wrote: »

Waterford
1 S O'Keeffe
2 SFives
3BCoughlan
4NConnors
5de Burca
6A Gleeson
P Mahony
8J Barron
8D Fives
10 KMoran
11S Bennett
12MWalsh
13P Curran
14Dillon
15TDevine

Strong starting fifteen;with no shanahan? Is that the offical team?

PTH2009

IanVW wrote: »

Waterford
1 S O'Keeffe
2 SFives
3BCoughlan
4NConnors
5de Burca
6A Gleeson
P Mahony
8J Barron
8D Fives
10 KMoran
11S Bennett
12MWalsh
13P Curran
14Dillon
15TDevine

Bennett on the frees I'd say. Didn't think dunford would be dropped. Should of started Connor Gleeson instead of Shane Fives (give him time to get over his Injury fully)

Devine only started one game in the league this year and had a bad day out vs Dublin. Maurice and pauric to get game time at some stage hopefully.

boodiebhoy

I'm surprised that Colin Dunford is the one to lose out. Always chips in a few scores and does the dirty work. But Devine worth a start as well. Great position to be in with such competition for places.

hurler on de ditch

Deskjockey wrote: »

Ok, bear with me on this...

I know Brick is a great ball winner in the forwards, and has been a tremendous servant over the years, but is there an argument to be made that the likes of another big unit like Devine would do as good a job up there and in contrast to Brick would be able to strike the ball as well as having the option of passing to someone with more space.

Looking at the match last weekend there was a particular play where Brick was in possession in a bit of space but just hadn't the confidence to go for his point 40 yards out and looked to pass to someone in a worse position than him. At times he seems as if his only play is to get the ball and then win the free. When it works it's great, and our free taker pops it over, but when you see him winning the ball and then immediately taking the ball into contact and going straight to ground, sometimes I wonder would we be better off having someone who can win the ball and who also poses a scoring threat.

Heresy I know, but I'd be interested in people's views

looks like their is more that the brick doing that job,at least 3 non scoring forwards out of 6

cul beag

Think we'll win on Sunday. I wonder will we see a late change with Shane Fives? Delighted Devine is getting his chance but not at Dunford's expense. It's comical at this stage the love-in regarding" the untouchable"!!
But let's move on as it will never change as long as Mcgrath is in charge so all we can hope for is a miraculous display on Sunday. Hopefully we throw off the shackles and at least have a go and try to be more positive. We have the forwards to do so. God knows whom will lose out when Shanahan and Mahony are fully fit!!

waterford28

Disgraceful dropping Dunford and leaving Dillon on. Politics is still alive and kicking in Waterford

dobbs2210

Dunford has an insatiable work rate. Terrible terrible move dropping him. Colin gets through the work of ten men at times during games. He is absolutely relentless. Very poor decision.

mickmackmcgoo

dobbs2210 wrote:

Dunford has an insatiable work rate. Terrible terrible move dropping him. Colin gets through the work of ten men at times during games. He is absolutely relentless. Very poor decision.

Jake dillon has the same insatiable work rate . He does the role he is picked to do very well. Dunford works hard too and is unlucky to lose out but will probably be picked for the championship. This hatred here for dillon is nonsense. McGrath and the selectors are doing a damn good job . If you're not happy with McGrath and his team selection that's your own opinion you're entitled too but he has gotten it right the last 2 seasons

cul beag

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Jake dillon has the same insatiable work rate . He does the role he is picked to do very well. Dunford works hard too and is unlucky to lose out but will probably be picked for the championship. This hatred here for dillon is nonsense. McGrath and the selectors are doing a damn good job . If you're not happy with McGrath and his team selection that's your own opinion you're entitled too but he has gotten it right the last 2 seasons

Not a hatred of Dillon its a hatred of the blind preference shown towards him. Again we'll hear about the savage workrate etc that he brings to the team but so do the other 14 players but it's his contribution after that is the problem. What does he bring to the table that Dunford doesn't? It's a hometown decision and nothing else! Dunford is a workhorse but add his pace and scoring ability to the mix and he should be starting. Tell me what else Dillon offers?. Delighted Devine gets his opportunity but id be fearful if he doesn't have an immediate impact on the game we'll see him being used as a substitute for the championship again. He definitely won't get the same amount of chances as Dillon has got since McGrath has come in. Stephen Bennett, Shan and Mahony are to come back,yes its a fabulous problem to have having this talent at their disposal but I wouldn't be surprised if Curran and Dunford would be the fall guys again later in the year.

mickmackmcgoo

I just read that dunford wasn't dropped, he hasn't recovered from the knock last week and is unavailable for selection. Dillon is well able to take a score and a better striker of a ball than dunford in my opinion

crottys lake

This nonsense about having a go at Jake or any other player should stop immediately. Jake, in fact, is having a huge input this year as well as before. His workrate, touch and vision is undeniable, especially to those who know what they are looking at when they go to a game.

cul beag

crottys lake wrote: »

This nonsense about having a go at Jake or any other player should stop immediately. Jake, in fact, is having a huge input this year as well as before. His workrate, touch and vision is undeniable, especially to those who know what they are looking at when they go to a game.

We know what we're looking for also! Touch? Vision? Examples please seeing as you know what you look for when you go to a game! I for one must be looking at something completely different and more besides me. In the meantime as I stated in an earlier post if its flankers we want to see pick up a few lads in Waterpark on the way up and they'll do the same job for us.

cascade12

cul beag wrote: »

We know what we're looking for also! Touch? Vision? Examples please seeing as you know what you look for when you go to a game! I for one must be looking at something completely different and more besides me. In the meantime as I stated in an earlier post if its flankers we want to see pick up a few lads in Waterpark on the way up and they'll do the same job for us.

You have been continuously having a go at Derek Mcgrath over the past couple of years and now Jake Dillon has become a target for your anger. I could pick several examples of positive contributions by Jake to this Waterford team but there would be no point in showing them to you because you have already made up your mind that he is a stick to beat the manager with. I presume that you did not come on here last year and compliment Dillon on a great performance against Cork in the Munster Championship, but if he has a poor game ( like most players do from time to time ) you cannot wait to have a blast at him.
You profess to know what you are talking about but I will explain something to you about the present Waterford style of playing. Contrary to what some people think ( probably including yourself) the two most demanding jobs as regarding work rate and making the system work on this team are the wing forward positions. That is why Brick and Dillon are ever presents on this team as they have what it takes to be able to do that job and of course Dillon chips in with a few scores as well. It is my opinion that Devine or Moran are the other two players on the panel that could this job and at the moment Moran is required elsewhere.
I also believe Dillon is perhaps a little unlucky that he is so adaptable because he could be very useful for us either in the FF line or as the extra midfielder. I, like many more on here, have been watching Waterford club and county hurling for many many years and Jake Dillon has been one of the brightest talents to have come through and he is not just a talented hurler but also a very committed and disciplined team player. With Tom Devine's inclusion on Sunday it is possible that Dillon could be moved to the FF line or the extra midfield role and I would love to see that but ultimately I think he will be back in the wing forward position because along with Brick they are our best options there.
By the way, I have no affiliation to DLS but some of the nonsense written here about Jake Dillon needed to be addressed and I get the impression that you are not telling us the full story about the bee that you have in your bonnet about Derek Mcgrath. And also, dont forget that Big Dan and Fintan O Connor also pick the team so the next time you are having a go at the manager be sure to include the selectors in your rant.

redlead

What does Dillon have to do/ not do to get dropped? He is pure dead wood at this stage. Devine well deserves his place but it's silly that Maurice and Dunford aren't starting ahead of Dillon.

waterford28

cascade12 wrote: »

You have been continuously having a go at Derek Mcgrath over the past couple of years and now Jake Dillon has become a target for your anger. I could pick several examples of positive contributions by Jake to this Waterford team but there would be no point in showing them to you because you have already made up your mind that he is a stick to beat the manager with. I presume that you did not come on here last year and compliment Dillon on a great performance against Cork in the Munster Championship, but if he has a poor game ( like most players do from time to time ) you cannot wait to have a blast at him.
You profess to know what you are talking about but I will explain something to you about the present Waterford style of playing. Contrary to what some people think ( probably including yourself) the two most demanding jobs as regarding work rate and making the system work on this team are the wing forward positions. That is why Brick and Dillon are ever presents on this team as they have what it takes to be able to do that job and of course Dillon chips in with a few scores as well. It is my opinion that Devine or Moran are the other two players on the panel that could this job and at the moment Moran is required elsewhere.
I also believe Dillon is perhaps a little unlucky that he is so adaptable because he could be very useful for us either in the FF line or as the extra midfielder. I, like many more on here, have been watching Waterford club and county hurling for many many years and Jake Dillon has been one of the brightest talents to have come through and he is not just a talented hurler but also a very committed and disciplined team player. With Tom Devine's inclusion on Sunday it is possible that Dillon could be moved to the FF line or the extra midfield role and I would love to see that but ultimately I think he will be back in the wing forward position because along with Brick they are our best options there.
By the way, I have no affiliation to DLS but some of the nonsense written here about Jake Dillon needed to be addressed and I get the impression that you are not telling us the full story about the bee that you have in your bonnet about Derek Mcgrath. And also, dont forget that Big Dan and Fintan O Connor also pick the team so the next time you are having a go at the manager be sure to include the selectors in your rant.

All he done against cork last year was score a goal brick put on a plate for him. He's not good enfough simple as that. No1 hates him it's just so blatantly obvious at this stage. If u follow club hurling like u say you do look at what happened dls last year! A bad game time to time fair enfough but not every game. Like there's several occasions that come to mind where his man (a defender) out scores him.

Out of the starting 6 forwards we normally have I'd rank them as follows

1 Bennett
2 curran
3 brick
4 Dunford
5 Moran
6 Dillon

That dosent just include scoring it also takes into consideration ball winning and dirty work. Moran is having a poor year too. I left Maurice out on purpose as if he were starting Dunford would be midfield . If Maurice was there he would be 3 and brick would go to 4.

We'll be found out sooner or later if politics stays. At the end of the day it's Mcgraths team the selectors only advise him. The book stops with the manager

redlead

cul beag wrote: »

Not a hatred of Dillon its a hatred of the blind preference shown towards him. Again we'll hear about the savage workrate etc that he brings to the team but so do the other 14 players but it's his contribution after that is the problem. What does he bring to the table that Dunford doesn't? It's a hometown decision and nothing else! Dunford is a workhorse but add his pace and scoring ability to the mix and he should be starting. Tell me what else Dillon offers?. Delighted Devine gets his opportunity but id be fearful if he doesn't have an immediate impact on the game we'll see him being used as a substitute for the championship again. He definitely won't get the same amount of chances as Dillon has got since McGrath has come in. Stephen Bennett, Shan and Mahony are to come back,yes its a fabulous problem to have having this talent at their disposal but I wouldn't be surprised if Curran and Dunford would be the fall guys again later in the year.

Couldn't possibly agree more. This post is spot on. I'm fed up of being told about Dillon's alleged workrate. Everyone on the team works their socks off; Dillon offers absolutely nothing else apart from that and I'm not even convinced by this either. Someone like Brick isn't going to score but he creates a huge amount of scores for us. What does Dillon do? I have no club bias or agenda, just commenting on what I see game after game.

cul beag

cascade12 wrote: »

You have been continuously having a go at Derek Mcgrath over the past couple of years and now Jake Dillon has become a target for your anger. I could pick several examples of positive contributions by Jake to this Waterford team but there would be no point in showing them to you because you have already made up your mind that he is a stick to beat the manager with. I presume that you did not come on here last year and compliment Dillon on a great performance against Cork in the Munster Championship, but if he has a poor game ( like most players do from time to time ) you cannot wait to have a blast at him.
You profess to know what you are talking about but I will explain something to you about the present Waterford style of playing. Contrary to what some people think ( probably including yourself) the two most demanding jobs as regarding work rate and making the system work on this team are the wing forward positions. That is why Brick and Dillon are ever presents on this team as they have what it takes to be able to do that job and of course Dillon chips in with a few scores as well. It is my opinion that Devine or Moran are the other two players on the panel that could this job and at the moment Moran is required elsewhere.
I also believe Dillon is perhaps a little unlucky that he is so adaptable because he could be very useful for us either in the FF line or as the extra midfielder. I, like many more on here, have been watching Waterford club and county hurling for many many years and Jake Dillon has been one of the brightest talents to have come through and he is not just a talented hurler but also a very committed and disciplined team player. With Tom Devine's inclusion on Sunday it is possible that Dillon could be moved to the FF line or the extra midfield role and I would love to see that but ultimately I think he will be back in the wing forward position because along with Brick they are our best options there.
By the way, I have no affiliation to DLS but some of the nonsense written here about Jake Dillon needed to be addressed and I get the impression that you are not telling us the full story about the bee that you have in your bonnet about Derek Mcgrath. And also, dont forget that Big Dan and Fintan O Connor also pick the team so the next time you are having a go at the manager be sure to include the selectors in your rant.

Sorry to disappoint you but I personally have absolutely nothing against McGrath and if you take the time to go back through my posts at different times I have praised the manager and the team. The truth of the matter is I call it as I see it im not blinded by the tripe that is being served up to us at the moment. Am I the only person disapproving with management and certain players? I think not! Your selective viewing leads you to this impression I believe. If we win on Sunday and Dillon plays out of his skin i will say as much but the fact you had to go back to the championship game against Cork last year to show an example of a better performance by him says enough. I aswell have been watching different Waterford teams for years coming through and potentially Dillon was amongst several players that were earmarked for future development at senior level but there were/are several from those groups that never got the same chance as he has.
7pts to 6 at halftime last Sunday with 12 wides posted and a game plan that stifles some of the best forwards we have produced since Flynn, Kelly,Mullane, Big Dan and you expect me to say the tactics are ok? The problem on here is if anyone constructively criticises the set up you are automatically tarnished as having a personal vendetta against McGrath etc. What utter rubbish! I,like others am a Waterford supporter and want nothing more than to see us successful but if my opinion of what I see doesn't suit then tough! For the record I was going to include Moran as another guy that's struggling big time but I might be accused of having something against DLS then!! In Moran's defense he is one player that can turn around on Sunday and give a MOM performance as he has done in the past where he has grabbed games by the scruff of the neck when all around him were flailing but alas I don't see his club mate doing the same thing. Hopefully I am wrong on Sunday as I imagine there is a queue waiting to tell me as such!!
Finally my thoughts on the other selectors are that they offer their opinions but ultimately the final say is with McGrath.

cul beag

waterford28 wrote: »

All he done against cork last year was score a goal brick put on a plate for him. He's not good enfough simple as that. No1 hates him it's just so blatantly obvious at this stage. If u follow club hurling like u say you do look at what happened dls last year! A bad game time to time fair enfough but not every game. Like there's several occasions that come to mind where his man (a defender) out scores him.

Out of the starting 6 forwards we normally have I'd rank them as follows

1 Bennett
2 curran
3 brick
4 Dunford
5 Moran
6 Dillon

That dosent just include scoring it also takes into consideration ball winning and dirty work. Moran is having a poor year too. I left Maurice out on purpose as if he were starting Dunford would be midfield . If Maurice was there he would be 3 and brick would go to 4.

We'll be found out sooner or later if politics stays. At the end of the day it's Mcgraths team the selectors only advise him. The book stops with the manager

Be careful now or you will be accused of having a personal vendetta against the regime!! Don't you dare be constructive in your criticism as it doesn't sit well!!
Great post by the way. Couldn't agree more.

Deskjockey

Total Scored (All 2016 NHL matches so far)
Dillon 0-4. Did not score anything in 4 matches
Moran 0-4. Did not score anything in 5 matches
Brick 0-1. Did not score anything in 6 matches

Look I do realise that this system in place does involve a huge amount of work rate and our forwards job involves winning ball and winning frees that our free takers need to slot over, as well as taking their own scores, and maybe it sounds churlish to question individuals in a team that have achieved an unbelievably consistent level of performance, and I know the statistics above dont capture workrate or assists or frees won in score able positions, and yes I know Brick has been a legend for us for the last 14 years ,but the game ultimately is about scoring...

mountgomery burns

To be fair, calling someone a flanker is not constructive criticism.

cul beag

mountgomery burns wrote: »

To be fair, calling someone a flanker is not constructive criticism.

Comparing the style of hurling being played at the moment to rugby I think is that example you refer to.

mountgomery burns

cul beag wrote: »

Comparing the style of hurling being played at the moment to rugby I think is that example you refer to.

Essentially you're saying he has the ability of a flanker playing hurling which isn't fair.

If you'd rather see somebody else in there instead of him I don't think that's unreasonable, but the way you make the points leaves a bit of a sour taste.

hurler on de ditch

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Jake dillon has the same insatiable work rate . He does the role he is picked to do very well. Dunford works hard too and is unlucky to lose out but will probably be picked for the championship. This hatred here for dillon is nonsense. McGrath and the selectors are doing a damn good job . If you're not happy with McGrath and his team selection that's your own opinion you're entitled too but he has gotten it right the last 2 seasons

agreed about Dillon ,but he(Mc Grath) has gotten very little right and an awful lot wrong these last two years

hurler on de ditch

cul beag wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you but I personally have absolutely nothing against McGrath and if you take the time to go back through my posts at different times I have praised the manager and the team. The truth of the matter is I call it as I see it im not blinded by the tripe that is being served up to us at the moment. Am I the only person disapproving with management and certain players? I think not! Your selective viewing leads you to this impression I believe. If we win on Sunday and Dillon plays out of his skin i will say as much but the fact you had to go back to the championship game against Cork last year to show an example of a better performance by him says enough. I aswell have been watching different Waterford teams for years coming through and potentially Dillon was amongst several players that were earmarked for future development at senior level but there were/are several from those groups that never got the same chance as he has.
7pts to 6 at halftime last Sunday with 12 wides posted and a game plan that stifles some of the best forwards we have produced since Flynn, Kelly,Mullane, Big Dan and you expect me to say the tactics are ok? The problem on here is if anyone constructively criticises the set up you are automatically tarnished as having a personal vendetta against McGrath etc. What utter rubbish! I,like others am a Waterford supporter and want nothing more than to see us successful but if my opinion of what I see doesn't suit then tough! For the record I was going to include Moran as another guy that's struggling big time but I might be accused of having something against DLS then!! In Moran's defense he is one player that can turn around on Sunday and give a MOM performance as he has done in the past where he has grabbed games by the scruff of the neck when all around him were flailing but alas I don't see his club mate doing the same thing. Hopefully I am wrong on Sunday as I imagine there is a queue waiting to tell me as such!!
Finally my thoughts on the other selectors are that they offer their opinions but ultimately the final say is with McGrath.

very well put ,,its a desperate system,and with all these lads that are such good hurlers and are left to play this system stinks,we have tonnes of ability up front and with loads of lads able to win ball (not dirty ball,what a **** phrase)they are so far out and so bollixed after their endeavor that they have to shoot from way out or be fouled to get a score at this stage ,it beggars belief ,last week was not the only bad day out ,,last day against Limerick was horrendous bar the revival in the second half ,but that had more to do with Limerick themselves,,the Wexford game before that was the worst match i have witnessed in the best part of 40 years ,Dublin being the biggest disappointment as i think we were qualified and all at that stage and STILL played a horrendous negative game ,its great that the team is getting tougher to beat ,we all like that ,but we need to push on now and leave forwards play or else just pick eight defenders and five midfielders with just a recognized free taker on the field ,good luck with trying to win an All Ireland with that