Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Deise189

Random question but does anyone know where Jamie Barron went to school before Fintan O Connor brought him to blackwater to play Harty? Trying to settle a discussion!

archieknox

Deise189 wrote: »

Random question but does anyone know where Jamie Barron went to school before Fintan O Connor brought him to blackwater to play Harty? Trying to settle a discussion!

Dungarvan CBS

Cornerstoner

archieknox wrote: »

Dungarvan CBS

Left Dungarvan under the illusion Blackwater were going to win the Harty with him on board. Ironically, they didn't even make it out if the group and the Dungarvan colleges combination team he left won it. Justice for the poaching that Blackwater were at under Denis Ring

Giveitfong

crottys lake wrote: »

That was a typo, Breen not Green.

Thanks for the report, Crotty's Lake. Could you give us the full Waterford lineout and the subs who played?

crottys lake

Giveitfong wrote: »

Thanks for the report, Crotty's Lake. Could you give us the full Waterford lineout and the subs who played?

This is how they actually lined out.

1.Iggy
2. Shane McNulty
3. Shane Roche was very impressive v Shane Dowling
4. Pa Walsh
5. Mark O' Brien
6. Paudi Prendegast [ scored sideline cut from 40 yards]
7. Stephen Daniels was very impressive v Declan Hannon
8. Eddie Barrett
9. Shane O'Sullivan
10. Martin O'Neill
11. Tom Devine
12. Gavin O'Brien
13. Donie Breathnach [goal]
14. D J Foran [goal]
15. Brian O'Halloran.

Subs used : Tommy Waring, Cormac Curran, Michael Harney [goal and impressive] Tommy Connors and Conor Murray.

I apologise to any player I have left out but I think that was it. Daniels is seriously on way back. Shane Roche is a prospect as is Michael Harney.

thinkstoomuch1

crottys lake wrote: »

This is how they actually lined out.

1.Iggy
2. Shane McNulty
3. Shane Roche was very impressive v Shane Dowling
4. Pa Walsh
5. Mark O' Brien
6. Paudi Prendegast [ scored sideline cut from 40 yards]
7. Stephen Daniels was very impressive v Declan Hannon
8. Eddie Barrett
9. Shane O'Sullivan
10. Martin O'Neill
11. Tom Devine
12. Gavin O'Brien
13. Donie Breathnach [goal]
14. D J Foran [goal]
15. Brian O'Halloran.

Subs used : Tommy Waring, Cormac Curran, Michael Harney [goal and impressive] Tommy Connors and Conor Murray.

I apologise to any player I have left out but I think that was it. Daniels is seriously on way back. Shane Roche is a prospect as is Michael Harney.

Great report
Did limerick play a sweeper or orthodox

crottys lake

They did not play a sweeper, but when we moved out they followed us which would be suicidal for them to do against Clare but if Limerick get their tactics correct then they can beat Clare.

thinkstoomuch1

crottys lake wrote: »

They did not play a sweeper, but when we moved out they followed us which would be suicidal for them to do against Clare but if Limerick get their tactics correct then they can beat Clare.

That's what I thought there unfortunately as night follow day so predictable under Ryan
They won't change for clare in Ryan too old school old habits die hard
Thanks for that appreciate it

Dara Mac Donnell

This was published in the Irish Times last Saturday the 18th of april prior to the win over Tipp.


Derek McGrath’s plan for Waterford is coming together

Manager is maturing in his roll along with his youthful team who are proving their worth

Malachy Clerkin

On the day before St Patrick’s Day 2014, Derek McGrath’s Waterford side arrived in Ennis with their step light and their smile easy. With three games gone in the league, they were second only on points difference and had just beaten Dublin and Galway, the two sides most likely to be in their neighbourhood when relegation visited. They weren’t yet safe but they felt secure.

Not that it was worth a whole pile to them. McGrath decided against changing up the gameplan that had just brought two victories in a row and didn’t drop anyone back in front of his full-back line. Davy Fitz’s All-Ireland champions made merry at their expense.

Podge Collins wandered out the pitch, leaving Shane O’Donnell and Conor McGrath inside on their own to plunder and pillage at will. O’Donnell scored 1-2 and set up another 3-3 in the first-half alone. Clare led by 22 points at half-time and end up with 5-20 on the board.

For the young Waterford manager, it was a cold and broken hallelujah. Not so much a lesson learned as one beaten into him the old fashioned way. Hands out, eyes closed, ruler across the knuckles. It wasn’t about tactics or hurling acumen, as might have appeared to those watching on. It was more about deciding what sort of manager he wanted to be.

“I blame myself completely for that,” he says. “I should have changed it for that game and gone more defensive. The two previous weekends, we had had good wins over Dublin and Galway. I think in a way, it meant that we came down to Clare reasonably confident in the game we were playing. And that game was fairly attack-minded at the time.

“But we were just probably a bit afraid to go away from what we’d been doing to win the two games beforehand. We just got gutted by following our men out the field. Clare were just delighted that we did that and left space inside.

Clean sheet
“After that, we played Kilkenny and confidence was low and we got another hiding. Everything is questioned then, everything is put in the spotlight. So psychologically, that Clare game probably had an effect alright.”

No kidding. Their record for the rest of the year went on to read: Played 6 Won 1 Lost 4 Drew 1 For 6-103 Against 13-114. Their only win came against Laois in a qualifier, their only clean sheet in the replay against Cork where JBM’s side popped over 28 points without breaking sweat.

As a young manager in his debut season, McGrath was afforded a certain measure of grace, albeit hardly enough to be getting squiffy on. By instinct, he sees a hurling pitch as a space to be protected first and exploited later. This is a not a world view that gets a lot of takers in a county that’s just had a decade and more of Mullane, Dan, Kelly, Ken, Flynn and Tony Browne.

“I won’t say that Waterford people are slow to accept change. But the GAA is a traditional organisation and Waterford is a traditional county. It has been known for traditional hurling, purist’s hurling. Last year, as a first-year manager, I would have been a bit intimidated by outside perceptions, in terms of how a Waterford team is expected to play. Just a small bit now. I wouldn’t call myself naive but I just think I maybe wasn’t my own man enough.

“I learned the importance of being yourself and staying true to yourself. I learned to deal with the scrutiny. It’s trusting yourself that you know the game and not coming across as boastful about it. I was probably a little bit paranoid. Well, maybe not paranoid but a bit introspective about it and over-analytical. I wasn’t really able to enjoy it for a while because it felt like every small thing became an issue.”

Going into 2015 he decided on two major changes, both of which had been coming, neither of which would be popular. To begin, he cleaned house. Though players like Liam Lawlor, Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley still had plenty to give, he cut them loose and said he was going with youth instead. There is general acceptance in the county too that not all of Stephen Molumphy, Séamus Prendergast and Shane Walsh were exactly itching to retire and that there was probably an element of jumping before they felt a hand at their back.

Immediate resistance
There was immediate resistance. Division 1B hurling can be ding-dong stuff at the best of times but now with Limerick and Wexford surging and Laois and Offaly finding a rhythm too, there wasn’t a huge appetite for throwing a gaggle of kids at the league and hoping for the best. McGrath didn’t recognise himself in that characterisation though and happily presented himself at county board meetings to explain his thinking.

“I suppose the simple question is were the county board really on the same wavelength as me when it came to playing the young lads and the answer is not really. That’s without being disparaging to the county board. I can understand completely their viewpoint. But I just felt the thing needed a shake-up and needed a change.

“Fellas who were of huge importance to the panel over a number of years were being omitted and the perception was . . . not that we didn’t know what we were doing exactly but it was a big risk, definitely. But I just felt that was the way to go.”

What were those meetings like?

“Well, what you got from the board were reasonable questions as regards the direction that the panel was going in. Were they too young? Would it not be worth keeping a bit more experience around? Given the away fixtures in the league where we’d be having to go to Limerick, Wexford and Offaly, would we not be needing some of the more established fellas who knew their way around those kind of games?

“I didn’t mind that. It was never a case of us taking offence or saying that we were going to go out now and prove the board wrong. The board are doing their job to the best of their ability – there are constraints there and there’s nothing anyone can do about them.

“But while we might be looking at 1B and saying that it’s good for team-building, the financial implications of being in 1A are the reality of it for the board. At the end of the day, I’m trying to balance the board’s expectations of me with realism and pragmatism.”

Allied to the new broom, he vowed never to walk off after a game again with regrets over leaving his team so ripe for the picking. By the middle of the championship last year, he was already playing with seven and eight in defence at times but now he wanted to dial in a system that would make them secure in every game.

Waterford line up for most games now in what is probably best described as a 3-5-4-1-1 formation. It changes and shape-shifts depending on the situation but in terms of first principles, that’s what McGrath has gone for. He has moved his most promising young forward Austin Gleeson to centre-back and shifted three-time All Star defender Brick Walsh to centre-forward.

Declaration of intent
The numbers tell their own story. In six league games in 2014, Waterford conceded 17-89. In six so far in 2015, that total is down to 3-80. Even allowing for the step down in quality of opposition, that’s a declaration of intent. Three goals is the fewest conceded by any team in the top two divisions and two of those have come from penalties. Call it a blanket, call it whatever.

“You’re backing young lads and you’re putting your trust in them and you’re leaving yourself on a parapet to be absolutely shot and criticised hugely. But that’s what has to be done I think. I pointed this out to the board the other night – I just felt that even if Division 1B hadn’t gone as well as it did and we weren’t in a Division One semi-final, we still made the right decision. I think we’ve gradually established that it was the way to go. I was willing to ride the storm, if you like.

“There were a couple of pundits in Waterford who were giving out that Waterford weren’t playing traditional hurling. And then the same pundits are texting me this year, saying we’re doing great and playing great stuff. And I’m going, ‘Well hang on, we’re playing completely the same way. Am I the short-sighted one here or are you?’”

The notices have been kind in places, not so in others. Everyone loves an underdog story until they look like becoming a nuisance to the big boys. There has even been some throwing around of the ultimate insult – that McGrath’s system is stolen from football. Wait till they hear that he spent every day of secondary school in a classroom with Jason Ryan, not to mention going to UCC with Éamonn Fitzmaurice.

“I see where people will make comparisons with the football or with Donegal, etc. But I think people would probably need to have a good look at a game like Limerick v Kilkenny last year. And I mean a four-hour look at that game. Or even Kilkenny v Tipp.

“If they come back to me after looking at those games and tell me it was conventional hurling all the way, then they’re looking at something completely different to what I’m looking at. If people think that Galway’s 2012 march to the final and Clare’s subsequent win in 2013 were conventional, I’d challenge them on that.

“At the core of everything we do and central to what we’re about is the fact that we’re proud to play for our county. We’re proud to build our team on old-fashioned values like honesty and integrity and respect for hard work. But that’s what all good teams are based on.

“It’s just that when you see Colin Fennelly getting back to pull off a hook inside his own 21 on a Limerick player, it’s put down as hard work. When you see a Waterford player getting back to hook a player in his own 21, it’s the feckin’ Donegal of hurling.

“Kilkenny are brilliant at putting out this image of playing simple hurling. You see when any of them are interviewed, they portray a very simple game. But I think that’s very far from the truth to be honest.”

One way or another, they are who they are and he is who he is. Tipperary in Nowlan Park will be the greatest test yet. McGrath still sees them as the fifth of five horses in Munster and all he wants is for them to start getting the trip with the rest of them.

‘Humble kids’
“We think we’re trying to do something and we might not get the victories but it still might be the right way for us to do it. I love it. I absolutely love it. I love the fact that there are 10 or 11 guys there who were in school with me as kids and now they’re intercounty players. I love that I have a group of humble kids, nice lads that are looking to improve.

“From Brick all the way down to the youngest of them, these fellas are only interested in the team. There’s absolutely no egos in the team. I love that part of it. I love the fact that we’re together and every time I go training, I’m able to park any negativity that was there last year. I’m stronger because of it.”


© 2015 THE IRISH TIMES

PTH2009

Dara Mac Donnell wrote: »

This was published in the Irish Times last Saturday the 18th of april prior to the win over Tipp.


Derek McGrath’s plan for Waterford is coming together

Manager is maturing in his roll along with his youthful team who are proving their worth

Malachy Clerkin

On the day before St Patrick’s Day 2014, Derek McGrath’s Waterford side arrived in Ennis with their step light and their smile easy. With three games gone in the league, they were second only on points difference and had just beaten Dublin and Galway, the two sides most likely to be in their neighbourhood when relegation visited. They weren’t yet safe but they felt secure.

Not that it was worth a whole pile to them. McGrath decided against changing up the gameplan that had just brought two victories in a row and didn’t drop anyone back in front of his full-back line. Davy Fitz’s All-Ireland champions made merry at their expense.

Podge Collins wandered out the pitch, leaving Shane O’Donnell and Conor McGrath inside on their own to plunder and pillage at will. O’Donnell scored 1-2 and set up another 3-3 in the first-half alone. Clare led by 22 points at half-time and end up with 5-20 on the board.

For the young Waterford manager, it was a cold and broken hallelujah. Not so much a lesson learned as one beaten into him the old fashioned way. Hands out, eyes closed, ruler across the knuckles. It wasn’t about tactics or hurling acumen, as might have appeared to those watching on. It was more about deciding what sort of manager he wanted to be.

“I blame myself completely for that,” he says. “I should have changed it for that game and gone more defensive. The two previous weekends, we had had good wins over Dublin and Galway. I think in a way, it meant that we came down to Clare reasonably confident in the game we were playing. And that game was fairly attack-minded at the time.

“But we were just probably a bit afraid to go away from what we’d been doing to win the two games beforehand. We just got gutted by following our men out the field. Clare were just delighted that we did that and left space inside.

Clean sheet
“After that, we played Kilkenny and confidence was low and we got another hiding. Everything is questioned then, everything is put in the spotlight. So psychologically, that Clare game probably had an effect alright.”

No kidding. Their record for the rest of the year went on to read: Played 6 Won 1 Lost 4 Drew 1 For 6-103 Against 13-114. Their only win came against Laois in a qualifier, their only clean sheet in the replay against Cork where JBM’s side popped over 28 points without breaking sweat.

As a young manager in his debut season, McGrath was afforded a certain measure of grace, albeit hardly enough to be getting squiffy on. By instinct, he sees a hurling pitch as a space to be protected first and exploited later. This is a not a world view that gets a lot of takers in a county that’s just had a decade and more of Mullane, Dan, Kelly, Ken, Flynn and Tony Browne.

“I won’t say that Waterford people are slow to accept change. But the GAA is a traditional organisation and Waterford is a traditional county. It has been known for traditional hurling, purist’s hurling. Last year, as a first-year manager, I would have been a bit intimidated by outside perceptions, in terms of how a Waterford team is expected to play. Just a small bit now. I wouldn’t call myself naive but I just think I maybe wasn’t my own man enough.

“I learned the importance of being yourself and staying true to yourself. I learned to deal with the scrutiny. It’s trusting yourself that you know the game and not coming across as boastful about it. I was probably a little bit paranoid. Well, maybe not paranoid but a bit introspective about it and over-analytical. I wasn’t really able to enjoy it for a while because it felt like every small thing became an issue.”

Going into 2015 he decided on two major changes, both of which had been coming, neither of which would be popular. To begin, he cleaned house. Though players like Liam Lawlor, Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley still had plenty to give, he cut them loose and said he was going with youth instead. There is general acceptance in the county too that not all of Stephen Molumphy, Séamus Prendergast and Shane Walsh were exactly itching to retire and that there was probably an element of jumping before they felt a hand at their back.

Immediate resistance
There was immediate resistance. Division 1B hurling can be ding-dong stuff at the best of times but now with Limerick and Wexford surging and Laois and Offaly finding a rhythm too, there wasn’t a huge appetite for throwing a gaggle of kids at the league and hoping for the best. McGrath didn’t recognise himself in that characterisation though and happily presented himself at county board meetings to explain his thinking.

“I suppose the simple question is were the county board really on the same wavelength as me when it came to playing the young lads and the answer is not really. That’s without being disparaging to the county board. I can understand completely their viewpoint. But I just felt the thing needed a shake-up and needed a change.

“Fellas who were of huge importance to the panel over a number of years were being omitted and the perception was . . . not that we didn’t know what we were doing exactly but it was a big risk, definitely. But I just felt that was the way to go.”

What were those meetings like?

“Well, what you got from the board were reasonable questions as regards the direction that the panel was going in. Were they too young? Would it not be worth keeping a bit more experience around? Given the away fixtures in the league where we’d be having to go to Limerick, Wexford and Offaly, would we not be needing some of the more established fellas who knew their way around those kind of games?

“I didn’t mind that. It was never a case of us taking offence or saying that we were going to go out now and prove the board wrong. The board are doing their job to the best of their ability – there are constraints there and there’s nothing anyone can do about them.

“But while we might be looking at 1B and saying that it’s good for team-building, the financial implications of being in 1A are the reality of it for the board. At the end of the day, I’m trying to balance the board’s expectations of me with realism and pragmatism.”

Allied to the new broom, he vowed never to walk off after a game again with regrets over leaving his team so ripe for the picking. By the middle of the championship last year, he was already playing with seven and eight in defence at times but now he wanted to dial in a system that would make them secure in every game.

Waterford line up for most games now in what is probably best described as a 3-5-4-1-1 formation. It changes and shape-shifts depending on the situation but in terms of first principles, that’s what McGrath has gone for. He has moved his most promising young forward Austin Gleeson to centre-back and shifted three-time All Star defender Brick Walsh to centre-forward.

Declaration of intent
The numbers tell their own story. In six league games in 2014, Waterford conceded 17-89. In six so far in 2015, that total is down to 3-80. Even allowing for the step down in quality of opposition, that’s a declaration of intent. Three goals is the fewest conceded by any team in the top two divisions and two of those have come from penalties. Call it a blanket, call it whatever.

“You’re backing young lads and you’re putting your trust in them and you’re leaving yourself on a parapet to be absolutely shot and criticised hugely. But that’s what has to be done I think. I pointed this out to the board the other night – I just felt that even if Division 1B hadn’t gone as well as it did and we weren’t in a Division One semi-final, we still made the right decision. I think we’ve gradually established that it was the way to go. I was willing to ride the storm, if you like.

“There were a couple of pundits in Waterford who were giving out that Waterford weren’t playing traditional hurling. And then the same pundits are texting me this year, saying we’re doing great and playing great stuff. And I’m going, ‘Well hang on, we’re playing completely the same way. Am I the short-sighted one here or are you?’”

The notices have been kind in places, not so in others. Everyone loves an underdog story until they look like becoming a nuisance to the big boys. There has even been some throwing around of the ultimate insult – that McGrath’s system is stolen from football. Wait till they hear that he spent every day of secondary school in a classroom with Jason Ryan, not to mention going to UCC with Éamonn Fitzmaurice.

“I see where people will make comparisons with the football or with Donegal, etc. But I think people would probably need to have a good look at a game like Limerick v Kilkenny last year. And I mean a four-hour look at that game. Or even Kilkenny v Tipp.

“If they come back to me after looking at those games and tell me it was conventional hurling all the way, then they’re looking at something completely different to what I’m looking at. If people think that Galway’s 2012 march to the final and Clare’s subsequent win in 2013 were conventional, I’d challenge them on that.

“At the core of everything we do and central to what we’re about is the fact that we’re proud to play for our county. We’re proud to build our team on old-fashioned values like honesty and integrity and respect for hard work. But that’s what all good teams are based on.

“It’s just that when you see Colin Fennelly getting back to pull off a hook inside his own 21 on a Limerick player, it’s put down as hard work. When you see a Waterford player getting back to hook a player in his own 21, it’s the feckin’ Donegal of hurling.

“Kilkenny are brilliant at putting out this image of playing simple hurling. You see when any of them are interviewed, they portray a very simple game. But I think that’s very far from the truth to be honest.”

One way or another, they are who they are and he is who he is. Tipperary in Nowlan Park will be the greatest test yet. McGrath still sees them as the fifth of five horses in Munster and all he wants is for them to start getting the trip with the rest of them.

‘Humble kids’
“We think we’re trying to do something and we might not get the victories but it still might be the right way for us to do it. I love it. I absolutely love it. I love the fact that there are 10 or 11 guys there who were in school with me as kids and now they’re intercounty players. I love that I have a group of humble kids, nice lads that are looking to improve.

“From Brick all the way down to the youngest of them, these fellas are only interested in the team. There’s absolutely no egos in the team. I love that part of it. I love the fact that we’re together and every time I go training, I’m able to park any negativity that was there last year. I’m stronger because of it.”


© 2015 THE IRISH TIMES

We deff are a much better set up this year than last year. So far bringing in youth has worked but if we were not relegated last year would we have survived 1a this year ??.

Mountainlad

I dunno about the whole youth thing being churned out. Ok, so a few more of the minors from 2013 were drafted into the Senior team and some of them played during the league but this is nothing new.

If you look at last weekend's starting 15, every single one of them was on the panel last year. The big difference for me is injuries, Maurice, Barron, O'Halloran, Bennett, Philip Mahony missed basically all of last year and Jake Dillon was struggling with fitness for a lot of it.

They look fitter, Tadhg Bourke and Gleeson are a year older, they've improved the system and I think changes in the backroom have far from been a hindrance and those players mentioned are available. I think that's pretty much why there has been a marked improvement in a nutshell.

HatchetMan7

If you were picking the team where would you play Austin Gleeson?

I'm thinking if we are going to play a 2 man full forward line then having Maurice and Gleeson up there they could win their fair share of high ball and be difficult to stop with ball in hand.

crottys lake

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

If you were picking the team where would you play Austin Gleeson?

I'm thinking if we are going to play a 2 man full forward line then having Maurice and Gleeson up there they could win their fair share of high ball and be difficult to stop with ball in hand.

Darragh Fives should be moving into centre back therefore allowing Tadgh to go wing back and thus releasing Austin Gleeson to wing forward.

tomwaterford

crottys lake wrote: »

Darragh Fives should be moving into centre back therefore allowing Tadgh to go wing back and thus releasing Austin Gleeson to wing forward.

Would it not wrong Tadhg be burca by moving him outta centre back??

deisedude

tomwaterford wrote: »

Would it not wrong Tadhg be burca by moving him outta centre back??

And catapulting Daragh Fives who has injured for quite a while into the most pivotal position on the field would be major risk

crottys lake

tomwaterford wrote: »

Would it not wrong Tadhg be burca by moving him outta centre back??

I would not be worried at all about moving Darragh straight in there. I think he is our best option. He reads the game so well and his quick thinking decisions are a major plus. He is very quick also and has vision. Tadhg has been brilliant and has been doing a lot of sweeping, therefore he is on the ball a lot. Darragh is more of a natural centre back whereas Tadhg can play the wing back position brilliantly. The move would also make us a bit more attack minded allowing both those boys to run and perhaps get a few long range scores and our gameplan is predicated on that.

Austin Gleeson ,as brilliant as he is would be much more effective in the wing forward position. His failure to pinpoint Dunford with obvious ball the last day instead of going for the' hail Mary' score and his ability to run at defenders from the forward/midfield area would see him to much better advantage. In fact Gleeson could be an unstoppable force there and create a new dynamic to the team.

Daniels was superb the other night and basically just needs his speed training upped now and when that happens he will push for his place bigtime.

tomwaterford

Think myself it would be a questionable move to parachute fives in at centre back for a league final/championship match....when at the moment that half back line is playing very well

I'm not doubting he's good....but I've not seen de burca put a foot wrong....even last year when wat.were being hammered he was one of the few who emerged with some sort of respectability for keeping playing until the end??

HatchetMan7

If Waterford can get goals whilst still protecting our full back line we'll be hard to beat. If we are playing a 2 man full forward line with a half forward line pushed closer to midfield then the two players inside need to be mobile, good in the air, strong and be able to take on 2/3 defenders to create goal chances. Both Gleeson and Maurice have these attributes and IMO would cause Cork some serious trouble next week.

redlead

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

If Waterford can get goals whilst still protecting our full back line we'll be hard to beat. If we are playing a 2 man full forward line with a half forward line pushed closer to midfield then the two players inside need to be mobile, good in the air, strong and be able to take on 2/3 defenders to create goal chances. Both Gleeson and Maurice have these attributes and IMO would cause Cork some serious trouble next week.

The problem is you might as well say if we had 17 players whilst still protecting our full back line we would be hard to beat. The way we are set up we just aren't going to score that many goals because a one man full forward line is going to struggle no matter what personnel we have.

What happened against Tipp was exactly what my fear was - someone would get a couple of goals against us, our gameplan would go out the window and we'd lose because we don't have the firepower to outpoint the top teams after they score goals against us. The only difference is that this happened and we still won. While the system is working we might as well keep at it. We won't be scoring goals though. Teams really seem to be struggling with it this year so God knows how far we might go. It could be far ....

HatchetMan7

redlead wrote: »

The problem is you might as well say if we had 17 players whilst still protecting our full back line we would be hard to beat. The way we are set up we just aren't going to score that many goals because a one man full forward line is going to struggle no matter what personnel we have.

What happened against Tipp was exactly what my fear was - someone would get a couple of goals against us, our gameplan would go out the window and we'd lose because we don't have the firepower to outpoint the top teams after they score goals against us. The only difference is that this happened and we still won. While the system is working we might as well keep at it. We won't be scoring goals though. Teams really seem to be struggling with it this year so God knows how far we might go. It could be far ....

We do create goal chances just not many of them. We probably created about 3 goal chances on average in our last few games unfortunately we only scored one against tipp. Devine was unlucky not to get one against tipp. Gleeson last year against Cork won the ball and had about 4/5 defenders close to him and still got a goal, i think if he wins a few balls within 30/40 yards from goal, he might be hard to stop, Maurice the same. I'm not saying we should be playing as defensively as we are but if we are then we need ball winners closer to goal. With the way we are playing 1/2 goals per game is enough IMO.

Giveitfong

crottys lake wrote: »

This is how they actually lined out.

1.Iggy
2. Shane McNulty
3. Shane Roche was very impressive v Shane Dowling
4. Pa Walsh
5. Mark O' Brien
6. Paudi Prendegast [ scored sideline cut from 40 yards]
7. Stephen Daniels was very impressive v Declan Hannon
8. Eddie Barrett
9. Shane O'Sullivan
10. Martin O'Neill
11. Tom Devine
12. Gavin O'Brien
13. Donie Breathnach [goal]
14. D J Foran [goal]
15. Brian O'Halloran.

Subs used : Tommy Waring, Cormac Curran, Michael Harney [goal and impressive] Tommy Connors and Conor Murray.
.

Thanks, Crottys Lake.

That team would probably be able to hold its own against most county sides, as indicated by their score of 3-17 against an almost full strength Limerick team. It does show the depth of talent currently available, especially with Darragh Fives and Ryan Donnelly still to come back. On that basis, apart from the senior and under 21, we should also be having a real cut at the Intermediate this year.

As regards where to play Darragh Fives if/when he comes back, it seems to me that Tadhg de Búrca is doing an excellent job in the sweeping role in front of the full back line, while also able to challenge for high balls coming down the centre. Austin Gleeson and Philip Mahony seem to be playing orthodox wing back roles, with Jamie Barron coming back to pick up ball from Tadhg, the full backs and the wing backs and then running past opponents to set up attacking moves from around midfield. I would play Fives instead of Austin Gleeson, who doesn't have the instincts for wing back play (especially compared with Fives) and should be moved to the forwards. This would create a really solid and creative defensive line.

stumblingblock

Giveitfong wrote: »

Thanks, Crottys Lake.

That team would probably be able to hold its own against most county sides, as indicated by their score of 3-17 against an almost full strength Limerick team. It does show the depth of talent currently available, especially with Darragh Fives and Ryan Donnelly still to come back. On that basis, apart from the senior and under 21, we should also be having a real cut at the Intermediate this year.

As regards where to play Darragh Fives if/when he comes back, it seems to me that Tadhg de Búrca is doing an excellent job in the sweeping role in front of the full back line, while also able to challenge for high balls coming down the centre. Austin Gleeson and Philip Mahony seem to be playing orthodox wing back roles, with Jamie Barron coming back to pick up ball from Tadhg, the full backs and the wing backs and then running past opponents to set up attacking moves from around midfield. I would play Fives instead of Austin Gleeson, who doesn't have the instincts for wing back play (especially compared with Fives) and should be moved to the forwards. This would create a really solid and creative defensive line.

Gleeson I would play him anywhere from number 8 to 12. In the future I think he has the ability to develop into a top centre back of the Ken McGrath mould, but at the moment he doesn’t have the defensive mentality for the position. I don’t mean that necessarily in a negative sense but his instinct is to attack and create as opposed to defend and break up the play. There is still a lot of rawness and naivety to his game and Id fear he could be a liability in defence especially in the bigger championship games when there is a lot at stake. As regards his attacking ability I believe there is no end to his limitations and what he can offer the team.

Giveitfong

Gleeson Cup result: West Waterford 2-20 East Waterford 2-14

West Waterford had a deserved victory in the annual East v West Under 16 hurling game for the Gleeson Cup in Fraher Field this evening. The game was played on a bone-hard pitch which caused some ball-control problems for the players (and a couple of nasty grazes for players landing heavily on the artificical surface in front of the dugouts).

After ten minutes of this game you would have thought that the East were going to run away with it as, despite playing against the wind, they were leading by 1-4 to 0-1 at this stage. However, the West then took over completely and the ball hardly crossed their 45 metre line for the remainder of the half. Overall they were a bigger, stronger and better hurling team, with their big centre and full forwards (Seán Crotty and Shaun Murray, both from Dungarvan) in particular causing the East’s defenders a lot of problems. The West were leading by six points coming up to half time but in a rare breakout, Clonea’s Bill Power got in for this second goal to leave just three points between the teams at half time, 1-10 to 2-4.

As in the first half, the East started the second half strongly and reduced the lead to one point before the West, despite playing into the wind, took over again. However, poor shooting meant they were unable to pull away on the scoreboard, and as the East began to up their performance, the possibility of them snatching a win was always there. However, a late goal (his second) by Shaun Murray finally put the West out of reach and they finished the game six points ahead, 2-20 to 2-14.

This was good scoring for under-16s in a 60-minute match. There were a lot of good performances on display – most of them on the West team, it should be said. However, the star of the show was the East’s Billy Power of Clonea, who ended up with a remarkable tally of 2-10, 2-5 of it from play. Without him, the East would definitely have shipped a heavier defeat. It should also be said that the East were missing the injured Thomas Douglas of De La Salle, one of their top players.

The West’s Shaun Murray was not far behind Power in the scoring stakes with a personal tally of 2-7 (2-3 from play).

The teams wore numbers different from those on the programme. The following were the teams as announced (some players did not play in the positions indicated by their announced numbers):

West: Jack Walsh (Ardmore); James Flavin (Ardmore) (0-1); Tom Barron (Fourmilewater); Kealan Daly (Dungarvan); Dylan O’Donovan (Brickeys); Dan Booth (St. Patrick’s); Tiernan O’Connell (St. Oliver’s); Mick Devine (Dungarvan); Conor Whelan (Brickeys) (0-2, one free); Cillian Tobin (Naomh Bríd); Seán Crotty (Dungarvan) (0-4, one free); Glen Cullinane (Fourmilewater) (0-3); Sam Murphy Nix (St. Patrick’s); Shaun Murray (Dungarvan) (2-7, three frees); Brian Lynch (Clashmore).

I also have Gavin Dalton (Naomh Bríd) down for 0-1. He was wearing no. 24 and may have played the entire game instead of one of the above from the announced team. Another substitute whose name I don’t know (wearing no. 23) scored 0-2. There were several other substitutions whose names I don’t have.

East: Donal Carey (De La Salle); Sean Carton (De La Salle); James Ogundare (Mount Sion); Luke Walsh (De La Salle) (0-1); Martin Power (Clonea); Jack Brophy (St. Saviours); Charlie Kelly (Tramore) (0-1); Seán Roche (Roanmore) (0-2); Luke Flynn (De La Salle); Harry Ruddle (Ballygunner); Evan McGrath (Mount Sion); Billy Power (Clonea) (2-10, 5 frees); Michael Mulcahy (St. Molleran’s); Ian Condon (De La Salle).

The East also brought on a number of substitutes whose names I don’t have. I think one of them was Jonathan Flynn (Mount Sion) (wearing no. 21) who played an important role in the East’s second half fightback.

stumblingblock

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Left Dungarvan under the illusion Blackwater were going to win the Harty with him on board. Ironically, they didn't even make it out if the group and the Dungarvan colleges combination team he left won it. Justice for the poaching that Blackwater were at under Denis Ring

A bit late but couldnt let this one go...



Very unfair post. Jamie had already completed his leaving cert with CBS but opted to repeat some subjects in Blackwater CS which he was entitled to do so. To be fair he had connections with teaching staff in the school so had a spin to and from the school every day. The distance by bus to Dungarvan for him wouldn’t be any more convenient. To say there was ‘poaching’ is very ill-informed. Outside of Jamie and Ring’s own son (Fermoy) there would have been no one else outside the normal catchment area on that team. Shane O’Brien (Cork minor centre back) is from St Catherines would only be a 15 minute drive from Lismore max. Blackwater got a savage hard group that year with 3 or 4 of the tournament favourites all in together. the groups were very uneven had they been in some other of the poorer groups it could have been a different story. They were unlucky the following year aswell that Bennett was injured long term. To say that it was ‘justice’ that they didn’t win anything just stinks of bitterness maybe your have a personal gripe towards Ring or the school yourself.

Waternut

I presume Tom is his brother played full back for West Waterford, he goes to school in Lismore too..

Cornerstoner

stumblingblock wrote: »

A bit late but couldnt let this one go...



Very unfair post. Jamie had already completed his leaving cert with CBS but opted to repeat some subjects in Blackwater CS which he was entitled to do so. To be fair he had connections with teaching staff in the school so had a spin to and from the school every day. The distance by bus to Dungarvan for him wouldn’t be any more convenient. To say there was ‘poaching’ is very ill-informed. Outside of Jamie and Ring’s own son (Fermoy) there would have been no one else outside the normal catchment area on that team. Shane O’Brien (Cork minor centre back) is from St Catherines would only be a 15 minute drive from Lismore max. Blackwater got a savage hard group that year with 3 or 4 of the tournament favourites all in together. the groups were very uneven had they been in some other of the poorer groups it could have been a different story. They were unlucky the following year aswell that Bennett was injured long term. To say that it was ‘justice’ that they didn’t win anything just stinks of bitterness maybe your have a personal gripe towards Ring or the school yourself.

Wrong. He moved there for fifth year so didn't have the leaving cert already completed. There was poaching going on and saying there wasn't is laughable. The players themselves just decided against the move - Colin Dunford and Micheal Harney are 2 for arguments sake which were approached.

Mountainlad

Lads whatever about clubs, a school has no right to claim the loyalty of someone. It's not a hurling team he was joining even if the hurling was a large part.

Plenty of people move school all the time for other reasons, does that make them disloyal? I think a school is entitled to approach anyone, its up to them to decide whether they want to go or not.

crottys lake

Giveitfong wrote: »

Gleeson Cup result: West Waterford 2-20 East Waterford 2-14

West Waterford had a deserved victory in the annual East v West Under 16 hurling game for the Gleeson Cup in Fraher Field this evening. The game was played on a bone-hard pitch which caused some ball-control problems for the players (and a couple of nasty grazes for players landing heavily on the artificical surface in front of the dugouts).

After ten minutes of this game you would have thought that the East were going to run away with it as, despite playing against the wind, they were leading by 1-4 to 0-1 at this stage. However, the West then took over completely and the ball hardly crossed their 45 metre line for the remainder of the half. Overall they were a bigger, stronger and better hurling team, with their big centre and full forwards (Seán Crotty and Shaun Murray, both from Dungarvan) in particular causing the East’s defenders a lot of problems. The West were leading by six points coming up to half time but in a rare breakout, Clonea’s Bill Power got in for this second goal to leave just three points between the teams at half time, 1-10 to 2-4.

As in the first half, the East started the second half strongly and reduced the lead to one point before the West, despite playing into the wind, took over again. However, poor shooting meant they were unable to pull away on the scoreboard, and as the East began to up their performance, the possibility of them snatching a win was always there. However, a late goal (his second) by Shaun Murray finally put the West out of reach and they finished the game six points ahead, 2-20 to 2-14.

This was good scoring for under-16s in a 60-minute match. There were a lot of good performances on display – most of them on the West team, it should be said. However, the star of the show was the East’s Billy Power of Clonea, who ended up with a remarkable tally of 2-10, 2-5 of it from play. Without him, the East would definitely have shipped a heavier defeat. It should also be said that the East were missing the injured Thomas Douglas of De La Salle, one of their top players.

The West’s Shaun Murray was not far behind Power in the scoring stakes with a personal tally of 2-7 (2-3 from play).

The teams wore numbers different from those on the programme. The following were the teams as announced (some players did not play in the positions indicated by their announced numbers):

West: Jack Walsh (Ardmore); James Flavin (Ardmore) (0-1); Tom Barron (Fourmilewater); Kealan Daly (Dungarvan); Dylan O’Donovan (Brickeys); Dan Booth (St. Patrick’s); Tiernan O’Connell (St. Oliver’s); Mick Devine (Dungarvan); Conor Whelan (Brickeys) (0-2, one free); Cillian Tobin (Naomh Bríd); Seán Crotty (Dungarvan) (0-4, one free); Glen Cullinane (Fourmilewater) (0-3); Sam Murphy Nix (St. Patrick’s); Shaun Murray (Dungarvan) (2-7, three frees); Brian Lynch (Clashmore).

I also have Gavin Dalton (Naomh Bríd) down for 0-1. He was wearing no. 24 and may have played the entire game instead of one of the above from the announced team. Another substitute whose name I don’t know (wearing no. 23) scored 0-2. There were several other substitutions whose names I don’t have.

East: Donal Carey (De La Salle); Sean Carton (De La Salle); James Ogundare (Mount Sion); Luke Walsh (De La Salle) (0-1); Martin Power (Clonea); Jack Brophy (St. Saviours); Charlie Kelly (Tramore) (0-1); Seán Roche (Roanmore) (0-2); Luke Flynn (De La Salle); Harry Ruddle (Ballygunner); Evan McGrath (Mount Sion); Billy Power (Clonea) (2-10, 5 frees); Michael Mulcahy (St. Molleran’s); Ian Condon (De La Salle).

The East also brought on a number of substitutes whose names I don’t have. I think one of them was Jonathan Flynn (Mount Sion) (wearing no. 21) who played an important role in the East’s second half fightback.

Thanks for that report and you were obviously at the same game that I was at !!! Sometimes people can look at a game completely differently. The pitch was unplayable in my estimation and thankfully nobody got injured. There were at least 2 points that were over the bar for the West that were not given, one in particular at the start of the second half that was 2 feet inside the upright. I can't understand why there was only one umpire at both ends and it was unfair on them but to be honest they didn't look that interested either.

Billy Power was sensational for the East and Tom Barron from the West is a star in the making. There were plenty of other big performances as well and it was a pity the big match up between Barron and Douglas did not take place due to the latter being sick.

Waternut

Plenty of other schools at it across Munster, including a few recent Harty winners. Happens a lot in school's rugby too. To be honest there probably isn't much wrong with it if means lads get to play at a higher level. It's a good thing really. Regarding Barron, he was quite entitled to go to whatever school he wanted to..

TyrionPower

Any secondary school student is entitled to change schools for a vast variety of reasons that are personal to them, it can be acedamic ambition, sporting ambition, parents decision (they are children) easier to get too or God forbid to escape bullying or the like.

No one had any loyalty to a secondary school, it's not like a club, you don't stay in a secondary school to keep every else happy.
Cornerstoner how you could talk about a lad who was that young in those terms over changing school is appalling really, the only sense I can make of it is that you didn't spend too much time in school yourself

deiseach

I remember an acquaintance of mine who attended De La Salle was 'encouraged' to repeat the Leaving even though he was a 580 points student because he was good at basketball. No offence to that sport, but I'd say there's slightly more prestige to winning the Harty Cup.

crottys lake

I really think the bookmakers have this game wrong , again.Paddy Power goes Cork 8/15 Waterford 15/8. That price for us is just screaming a bet especially with everyone reporting fit after the weekend.

HatchetMan7

crottys lake wrote: »

I really think the bookmakers have this game wrong , again.Paddy Power goes Cork 8/15 Waterford 15/8. That price for us is just screaming a bet especially with everyone reporting fit after the weekend.

I was expecting Cork slight favourits but in a two horse race that's well worth a bet, nearly 2/1 is crazy. Lump on!!

Deise_2012

crottys lake wrote: »

I really think the bookmakers have this game wrong , again.Paddy Power goes Cork 8/15 Waterford 15/8. That price for us is just screaming a bet especially with everyone reporting fit after the weekend.

Waterford will be evens come Sunday. I think everyone will agree that the team will remain unchanged for Sunday. I think it will be the same team that starts June 7th also unless Darragh Fives or Steven Daniels are really showing up in training. You have

Sok
Noelie, Barry C, Shane Fives, Tadhg, Aussie, Philip
Moran, Jamie Barron
Colin D, Paudie, Brick, Stephen Bennett, Maurice and Jake.

Then for the summer if we had full selection, I'd like to see.

Sok
Shane Fives/Daniels, Barry C, Noelie
Tadhg, Darragh Fives, Philip
Moran, Jamie Barron
Aussie, Paudie,Brick
Colin Dunford, Maurice and Stephen Bennett/Jake. If Bennett is 100% then it's him all day long. But he shouldn't be playing otherwise. Our bench is strong this year, we'll have Daniels, Darragh Fives if not ready to start, Brian O'Halloran, Shane Bennett, Tom Devine, Jake/Stephen Bennett, Shane O'Sullivan, Ryan Donnelly, Micheal Harney and DJ Foran going well in training and challenges. It's a 20 man game and we certainly have 20 top class hurlers, young and raring to go. I remember that 1/4 final v Cork in 2012, Shane Walsh went off injured, our lack of subs cost us that day, bringing on Eoin Mcgrath and Shane Casey as our only attacking options. Best of luck Sunday men!

Cornerstoner

TyrionPower wrote: »

Any secondary school student is entitled to change schools for a vast variety of reasons that are personal to them, it can be acedamic ambition, sporting ambition, parents decision (they are children) easier to get too or God forbid to escape bullying or the like.

No one had any loyalty to a secondary school, it's not like a club, you don't stay in a secondary school to keep every else happy.
Cornerstoner how you could talk about a lad who was that young in those terms over changing school is appalling really, the only sense I can make of it is that you didn't spend too much time in school yourself

I have no problem with a person changing school, I went to the very same school and played on various Harty cup teams. I'm saying that the poaching and attempted poaching that went on was wrong. Half of ye on here don't know the ready position from the lock

tomwaterford

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

I was expecting Cork slight favourits but in a two horse race that's well worth a bet, nearly 2/1 is crazy. Lump on!!

Insane odds....I never bet...but I'm getting someone to put money on for me at that odds

TyrionPower

Cornerstoner wrote: »

I have no problem with a person changing school, I went to the very same school and played on various Harty cup teams. I'm saying that the poaching and attempted poaching that went on was wrong. Half of ye on here don't know the ready position from the lock

For gods sake, that has been going on as long as the Harty Cup itself and you pick out that one instance... Sad... Deal with your issues with your old school or Jamie Barron privately...
For one that is so wise and above all the rest of us in matters hurling the muck you post here would need a big improvement to back it up...

PTH2009

I think the county shc is starting this weekend It's tallow vs ballyduff upper so I'd imagine they have no players on the Waterford Panel. There's a full line up of fixtures on the next 2 weekend following the league final.

Hopefully the Waterford hurlers will be having a few celebratory drinks come Sunday night dare I say it the match will end in a draw after extra time lol

pluszap

Johnny Ryan is referee for sunday:D:D:D

stumblingblock

Cornerstoner wrote: »

I have no problem with a person changing school, I went to the very same school and played on various Harty cup teams. I'm saying that the poaching and attempted poaching that went on was wrong. Half of ye on here don't know the ready position from the lock

Just because you played Harty Cup (so you claim) it makes your opinion more qualified than everyone else’s. You’re the one deluded if you think Blackwater are the aristocrats of this so called ‘poaching’ business. We know how people on here look to bang on about Kilkenny and how we should be following what theyre doing. Look at St Kierans. They win the All Ireland pretty much every second year. They have a spread of players from all corners of the city and county. Given the fact that there are secondary schools in towns such as callan, ballyhale, castlecomer and Johnstown, yet many players from these catchment areas go to and move to Kierans primarliy for hurling purposes. Is this not ‘poaching’? Similar with Ard Scoil Ris in Limerick who draft students in from all over Limerick and even Clare. That’s ok but when a small school like Blackwater gets a couple of players in from outside the catchment area and theres this type of bitterness and begrudgery. Sad.

HatchetMan7

Only Jamie Barron knows why he left one school and went to another and he has every right to do so without anyone questioning his motives. Its in the past and that's where it should be left.

Waterford v Cork - League Final
One of the main reasons why Waterford are in a league final is because of our huge workrate. No doubt we have quality hurlers throughout the team but the difference against Tipp was in the end we out fought them. Against Wexford and Galway we won more comfortably because we out worked them and IMO have more quality throughout our panel.
Tipp with no injuries have a stronger starting 15 than Waterford does but you'd expect that as they have alot more experience too.
If Cork had their full panel to pick from including their regular full back i think on paper they would match up to Tipp fairly evenly overall but their full back is a big loss and they don't have any quality replacement.
The only big advantage Cork now have over Waterford is experience. Waterford's big advantage over all the teams so far is that we are fitter at this time of the year and have greater workrate. Most of the teams are trying to peak for the start of the championship where as we've peaked (possibly) a bit early for championship.
The duel of the day may be Tadgh de Burca v Seamus Harnedy,(if de Burca holds the centre) two players on top of their game.

Waterford by 1

stumblingblock

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Only Jamie Barron knows why he left one school and went to another and he has every right to do so without anyone questioning his motives. Its in the past and that's where it should be left.

Waterford v Cork - League Final
One of the main reasons why Waterford are in a league final is because of our huge workrate. No doubt we have quality hurlers throughout the team but the difference against Tipp was in the end we out fought them. Against Wexford and Galway we won more comfortably because we out worked them and IMO have more quality throughout our panel.
Tipp with no injuries have a stronger starting 15 than Waterford does but you'd expect that as they have alot more experience too.
If Cork had their full panel to pick from including their regular full back i think on paper they would match up to Tipp fairly evenly overall but their full back is a big loss and they don't have any quality replacement.
The only big advantage Cork now have over Waterford is experience. Waterford's big advantage over all the teams so far is that we are fitter at this time of the year and have greater workrate. Most of the teams are trying to peak for the start of the championship where as we've peaked (possibly) a bit early for championship.
The duel of the day may be Tadgh de Burca v Seamus Harnedy,(if de Burca holds the centre) two players on top of their game.

Waterford by 1

Im confident about Sunday, I think we can do it. Until a team comes up with a way of counter-acting our system and matching our work-rate we will be hard to beat, no matter who the opposition. If we can keep Corks main forwards at bay we can go a long ways. The problem you often find with Cork is that when you put the shackles on their main forwards like Horgan or Lehane, there is always another lad capable of stepping up. Alan Cadogan for example is a fellah who has caused us trouble in the past. Harnedy is another whose influence needs to be curtailed. I hope Sunday is not the day we are opened up and exposed. But I cant see it happening because the hunger there at the moment is absolutely massive. As big as Ive seen from a Waterford team in a long while. I think these lads really want this league trophy and there’s absolutely no fears going into the game. The biggest worry lads have is that there are plenty fellahs on the bench as good as lads starting and that’s a very healthy place to be.

blueflame

No disrespect meant to Cork and I could well be eating my words come Sunday evening but a lot of lads on here talking about them as if they were the great KK side of recent years - they are not , will not yet at least. Yes that have savage potential that has shown in fits and starts and until they deliver this with a high degree of consistency they are amongst the better sides in the country no more, and i honestly believe we belong in the same bunch.

A big worry for me is what we will be willing to do on the line Sunday. Cork for my money will most likely start Cadogan on Barry Coughlan and last year he ran riot. I know we are affording greater protection to our full back line but if he starts to run riot will we be slow to make the necessary change. Not picking on Coughlan he has done nothing wrong so far but sometimes players come up against opposition that cannot handle for one reason or another. We have options on the line with Paudie Prenderagst to slot in and do a job, but will our management be willing to make that kind of sacrifice on the day, I worry they might not.

Other than that i believe we are a match throughout the field especially if our lads are on their game. I would like to see, Maurice start and stay wing forward along side Brick and Paudie for most if not the entire game. Think he is much more effective there and we have a half forward line capable of winning ball. Would like to see Bennett and Dunford stay close to goal as i think they can cause real damage in there there even in a 2 on 3 scenario. That will leave Jake or O'Halloran or Devine or whoever they pick in the other corner to drift out the field and increase the numbers in that area, without removing a real goal threat. I believe the Cork Full back line is a serious Achilles heel for them and I genuinely fancy us to get goals especially if we can create space in front of them, but we must have at least 2 men in there keeping the full-back line on their toes.

Really looking forward to the game.

deiseach

Cork still have to be favourites because, well, Cork. The failure to apply the necessary pressure when we had our boot on their throat in the 1998 final was disappointing enough at the time, but it would also prove a harbinger of things to come in the decade-and-a-half that followed. Maybe we have a generation of hurlers for whom Cork don't hold the same fears as that generation. Tipp were always going to push back in the final quarter of this year's semi-final after what was a Herculean effort in the third quarter, but feck it didn't the Waterford lads hold their nerve. I hope we'll see more of the same on Sunday (although walloping them up and down the pitch would also be acceptable). Whatever happens though, the gap between where I thought we'd be at the start of the year and where we are is gargantuan. Roll on Sunday.

PTH2009

Have to miss the match due to work.devastated is not the word. Bought the ticket and everything

conditioned games

2 competitive games in thurles against Cork is ideal in the learning curve for this waterford team with its more defensive system. Cork are one of the best teams at scoring points under JBM and with the extra space in thurles it will test the current system to the max. If we don't get the result at least there will be plenty of opportunity to learn from the game and tweak the positioning of players for the next day.

TyrionPower

PTH2009 wrote: »

Have to miss the match due to work.devastated is not the word. Bought the ticket and everything

Crap! hopefully you will be still celebrating a win sunday

Deisegodeo

Watched the TG4 programme this evening on the Waterford - Cork rivalry of the naughties. Some fantastic games, incredible scores and drama. Brilliant players on both sides....
Cant wait for Sunday now.

archieknox

Mayweather/pacman-draw and Waterford/Cork draw worth a punt?

HatchetMan7

blueflame wrote: »

No disrespect meant to Cork and I could well be eating my words come Sunday evening but a lot of lads on here talking about them as if they were the great KK side of recent years - they are not , will not yet at least. Yes that have savage potential that has shown in fits and starts and until they deliver this with a high degree of consistency they are amongst the better sides in the country no more, and i honestly believe we belong in the same bunch.

A big worry for me is what we will be willing to do on the line Sunday. Cork for my money will most likely start Cadogan on Barry Coughlan and last year he ran riot. I know we are affording greater protection to our full back line but if he starts to run riot will we be slow to make the necessary change. Not picking on Coughlan he has done nothing wrong so far but sometimes players come up against opposition that cannot handle for one reason or another. We have options on the line with Paudie Prenderagst to slot in and do a job, but will our management be willing to make that kind of sacrifice on the day, I worry they might not.

Other than that i believe we are a match throughout the field especially if our lads are on their game. I would like to see, Maurice start and stay wing forward along side Brick and Paudie for most if not the entire game. Think he is much more effective there and we have a half forward line capable of winning ball. Would like to see Bennett and Dunford stay close to goal as i think they can cause real damage in there there even in a 2 on 3 scenario. That will leave Jake or O'Halloran or Devine or whoever they pick in the other corner to drift out the field and increase the numbers in that area, without removing a real goal threat. I believe the Cork Full back line is a serious Achilles heel for them and I genuinely fancy us to get goals especially if we can create space in front of them, but we must have at least 2 men in there keeping the full-back line on their toes.

Really looking forward to the game.

I don't think we'll ever see Maurice in the half forward line playing the system we're playing at the moment. Derek wants the half forward line to push to midfield and sometimes further back if needed and help out our defence. Maurice has great work ethic when on the ball or trying to win it but he's not much good when chasing down players when they have the ball.
In fairness to him his size doesn't help when trying to defend, too easy to side step him. The likes of Brick, Pauric and Dillon are quite good at closing down defenders and i've also seen Dillon put in some big hits on the opposition defenders which is always great to see.
I wonder when Shane Bennett is done with his leaving cert how close will he be to the starting 15. He was playing great stuff before he left and at only 18 he has some potential.