Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

PTH2009

blueflame wrote: »

There is a lot of talk about how far we have progressed under current managment, but what is the starting point people are looking at for this:

In 2013 we played 5 league games beat Clare by 1 pt in Ennis, Drew with Cork in Dungarvan, Lost to KK in Nolan Park by 5 pts, Beat Tipp in Walsh Park by 1 pt and lost to Galway in Walsh Park by 3 pts. Finished the league with 5 points avoided relegation playoff and missed out on League Semi-Final place . We conceded 4 goals in those five league games -an average of 0.8 goals conceded per game

In the All-Ireland Series, lost to Clare by 8 pts first round who went on to win the All Ireland, then beat Offaly and beat Westmeath before going out to KK in extra time in Thurles.

In 2014 the current management's first year in charge, in the league we lost by 3 pts to Tipp in Thurles, we then beat Galway by 6 pts and Dublin by 3 pts both in Walsh Park before losing to Clare by 13 pts in Ennis and KK by 20 pts in Nolan Park. In the five league games we conceded 13 goals. We then lost to Dublin in a relegation play-off in Walsh Park conceding another 4 goals bringing our total to 23 goals conceded in 6 games - an average of 3.83 goals per game -

In the Championship we put in a great first half against Cork before being reeled in and then losing the replay by 14 points before beating Laois in the Qualifiers in Walsh Park and then loosing to Wexford by 3 points in Nolan Park.

I am not seeking to detract from what current Management has achieved by getting promotion and winning the League in 2015 and being runners up last year, but facts are facts.

The stark reality is that in 2013 we had come through a tough league campaign and had looked competitive and assured at the back, standing toe to toe with KK in the Championship - we had introduced several new players to the set up including Jake Dillon, and Jamie Barron, the likes of SOK, Philip and Pauric Mahony, Paudie Prendergastand Brian O'Halloran had gotten another years experience under their belts and we had just won the minor All Ireland with some really special potential talent on the horizon. Most supporters were looking forward to 2014 with real optimism, not expecting miracles but expecting to see a steady improvement.

2014 after a promising start turned into one ultimate disaster - with basically the same panel of players with more experience and the addition of Austin Gleeson we were a shambles - in three of the games we played we conceded as many or more goals than we had in the entire league campaign the previous year against broadly the same opposition ending up being relegated. We were humiliated against Cork in the championship replay, struggled past a poor Laois side on our own turf, and then went down to an average Wexford side.

All the time we had to listen to Management telling us that the Waterford public had to be realistic, we didn't have the players and we should be patient while they rebuilt us

Gaining promotion in 2015 straight away was important and a very good achievement. Winning the league was a great achievement and took us all by surprise, especially based on where we were in 2014. However if we looked back to back to 2013 was it such a surprise that we should be competing for a league tittle 24 months later - I don't think so, we were never a million miles away from league titles.

Current management like to talk about "where we have come from", I am sorry but the facts are we have come from where "they brought us" in their first year. With the players we had at our disposal we should never have been down there in the first place - the fact is over the last three years we had a combination of some strong minor sides maturing coupled with the emergence of one excellent minor side being added to what was already a strong and experienced panel of players which included serious players in addition to those already mentioned like Noel Connors. Brick, Kevin Moran, Shane and Darragh Five, Maurice Shanahan etc.. I know I, and many like me, certainly expected us to be a serious outfit by this stage

Before i am accused on having a knife out for the current management or favouring the previous management, i am neither, I am merely pointing to the facts and how these have been distorted. I have great respect for the current management, the commitment they have given is phenomenal and i do not doubt their intentions, but the figures do not lie.

When we judge the current management we must judge them on where we were when they took over, where they brought us initially, where we are now and where they are bringing us. In my view they have merely returned us to where we should reasonably have expected to be at this stage of the development of this particular crop of players , being able to challenge the majority - the question is can they bring us to the next level of being serious challengers to the kingpins of Tipp and Kilkenny where i believe we can go - i have my doubts but will l wait and see.

very good write up

in 2014 we had a different selectors and only Dan and Derek are still there today. Willie Maher (who managed the Tipp under 21s last year) and Frank Flannery were part of the setup and both bailed before the 2015 season

IMO the next 8-10 years is the last chance we have of an all ireland senior title but is this management team the right guys to do it and is it there style of tactics that are not getting us over the line ???. It will be so weird to see the current group of players being managed by someone else and the dogs in the street know that it will be Sean Power and Co to take over as the county board cant afford a big name and there could be nobody else capitable of taking over. If a guy who lead us to our first AI minor title in 65 years and first AI under 21 title in 24 years is not good enough to manage the senior team than who else is there ??? Liam Sheedy is not going to return to management, Donal Og Cusack is not proven yet etc

3ships

Maurice, Philip Mahony, Dara Fives, Jamie Barron, Brian o Halloran were all injured 2014 I think. There was lots of niggles and suspensions that year, it was a bit of a mess. A pity cause big Seamus and Molumphy were still there as well. A side well capable of getting to Croke Park at least. The 2015 salvation angle is certainly overblown

3ships

Dara Fives and Philip Mahony not fit for tomorrow, it'll be another couple of weeks according to Derek McGrath on wlr.
Still should be a strong side with Barron Brick and Maurice back in contention

conditioned games

I don't see the point why the 2 corner forwards are playing out the field so often. You could argue that it is to stop the opposition from scoring and keep the match competitive but it has the opposite effect. When the defenders hit the ball up it comes straight back down meaning the backs are under constant pressure. When Waterford are at their worst its usually when there is one or two up front being out numbered. When they have 3 full forwards pushed up and the 3 half forwards back helping the midfield and half back area they are at their best in my opinion.

tomwaterford

PTH2009 wrote: »

very good write up

in 2014 we had a different selectors and only Dan and Derek are still there today. Willie Maher (who managed the Tipp under 21s last year) and Frank Flannery were part of the setup and both bailed before the 2015 season

IMO the next 8-10 years is the last chance we have of an all ireland senior title but is this management team the right guys to do it and is it there style of tactics that are not getting us over the line ???. It will be so weird to see the current group of players being managed by someone else and the dogs in the street know that it will be Sean Power and Co to take over as the county board cant afford a big name and there could be nobody else capitable of taking over. If a guy who lead us to our first AI minor title in 65 years and first AI under 21 title in 24 years is not good enough to manage the senior team than who else is there ??? Liam Sheedy is not going to return to management, Donal Og Cusack is not proven yet etc

He has done enough and has more credentials than mcgrath had when he took over??

Giveitfong

A recurring theme in Derek McGrath’s media interviews in recent times has been how much further ahead of Waterford Tipperary are (in his view) in terms of development. Last year he suggested that Tipperary were four or five years ahead of Waterford in this respect and he repeated this argument in interviews with the Irish Independent on February 17 and the Irish Times on February 21 last. For example, in the latter interview, he stated that Tipperary have at their disposal a more mature bunch of players.

But does this argument match the facts? I have been looking at the Waterford and Tipperary teams which played each other in the 2012 Munster final (five years ago) and comparing them with their respective panels today. In the forthcoming Munster championship I would expect Tipperary to start with their All-Ireland winning team from last year, with the possible exception of Darren Gleeson. Of that team, five started in the 2012 Munster final: Micky Cahill, Noel McGrath and Pádraig, Brendan and Bonnar Maher. Seamus Callanan came on as a sub, as did Ronan Maher (who also came on as a sub in last year’s All-Ireland final). Darren Gleeson was a sub in 2012, as were John O’Keeffe and Seán Curran, who are in the current Tipperary panel.

I would expect the Waterford championship team to be along the following lines: Stephen O’Keeffe, Shane Fives, Barry Coughlan, Noel Connors, Tadhg de Búrca, Darragh Fives, Philip Mahony, Kevin Moran, Jamie Barron, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony, Austin Gleeson, Maurice Shanahan, Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran. Of these, seven – O’Keeffe, Connors, Moran, Brick, Shanahan and the two Mahonys – played in 2012. Darragh Fives would also have played if he was fit. In addition to these, Gavin O’Brien and Stephen Daniels started in 2012 and Iggy O’Regan and Tommy Ryan were subs (Ryan started in Waterford’s next game against Cork). Brian O’Halloran was also injured in 2012 and is part of the current panel.

This means that twelve of the current Waterford panel were involved in 2012 (or would have been had they not been injured) with seven starting. Nine (ten if you include Darren Gleeson) of the current Tipperary panel were involved in 2012 with five starting. This indicates that, on balance, the Waterford team has been longer on the road and is more experienced. This is borne out by the average ages of the teams come June, with Waterford’s 25.7 exceeding Tipperary’s 25.4 (excluding Gleeson). Yet in the Irish Times last week, Dan Shanahan was talking about the gap between Waterford’s “young team” and Tipperary’s.

What really worries me about Derek McGrath’s recent utterances is the way he appears to be writing off the prospects of the current Waterford team winning the All-Ireland. According to the Irish Independent interview, “McGrath insists that Waterford still have a long road to travel - and reckons that many of his players will be in their mid-20s before their full potential is realised.” What does this say about the ten of Waterford’s likely championship starting team this year who are already 25 or older?

McGrath is further quoted as saying: "The fruits of Tipp's 2010 All-Ireland U-21 win are only being seen now.” Does this mean that McGrath does not expect Waterford to win the senior All-Ireland for another five years? How does reading this stuff impact on the self-image and self-belief of the current Waterford players (including those who were on last year’s under 21 team)?

This once more highlights Derek McGrath’s extraordinarily negative mindset, which has no place in a manager with realistic aspirations of All-Ireland success. I for one believe that the current Waterford team are well capable of going all the way, having shown last year how close they are to the top, despite McGrath’s exasperting selections and defensive setup. The quality of the players may still transcend McGrath’s negativity, but I cannot see Waterford capturing Liam MacCarthy while he remains in charge.

ThaiTanic

Waterford Senior Hurling Team named to face Dublin tomorrow in Croke Park at 5pm!

1. Ian O'Regan (Mount Sion)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Pet Daniels (De La Salle)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
9. Conor Gleeson (Fourmilewater)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Pauric Mahony (Ballygunner)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Stephen Bennett (Ballysaggart)
15. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggarart)

Strong enough team, good to see Stephen Bennett back starting, baffled by the decision to start Daniels.

mickmackmcgoo

ThaiTanic wrote:

Strong enough team, good to see Stephen Bennett back starting, baffled by the decision to start Daniels.

Am also baffled at how Shane Bennett starts every game but the likes of Brian o Halloran and Tomas Ryan can't get a chance!

ThaiTanic

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Am also baffled at how Shane Bennett starts every game but the likes of Brian o Halloran and Tomas Ryan can't get a chance!

Yeah agree with you there, has been in poor form

seananigans

1. Ian O'Regan (Mount Sion)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Stephen Daniels (De La Salle)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
9. Conor Gleeson (Fourmilewater)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Pauric Mahony (Ballygunner)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Stephen Bennett (Ballysaggart)
15. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggart)

Deise_2012

Philip Mahony and Darragh Fives not fit...so what's the problem?

robopaddy2

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Philip Mahony and Darragh Fives not fit...so what's the problem?

I reckon some people are jealous, maybe they were never picked by Derek for the Harty cup panel in school and it irkes them now to see the more talented boys make it at senior county level

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

very good write up

in 2014 we had a different selectors and only Dan and Derek are still there today. Willie Maher (who managed the Tipp under 21s last year) and Frank Flannery were part of the setup and both bailed before the 2015 season

IMO the next 8-10 years is the last chance we have of an all ireland senior title but is this management team the right guys to do it and is it there style of tactics that are not getting us over the line  ???. It will be so weird to see the current group of players being managed by someone else and the dogs in the street know that it will be Sean Power and Co to take over as the county board cant afford a big name and there could be nobody else capitable of taking over. If a guy who lead us to our first AI minor title in 65 years and first AI under 21 title in 24 years is not good enough to manage the senior team than who else is there ??? Liam Sheedy is not going to return to management, Donal Og Cusack is not proven yet etc

Really, so you know all about the current 10, 12 14 year olds in the county? There is no chance of any good hurlers coming through after the current crop moves on?

blueflame

Disapppinted to hear Dara Fives injured again - heard for very reliable source he played last weekend against Wexford and scored three points - if he is really injured again hope it is something small.

The team itself is fine with me - believe Daniels deserves a chance to prove himself again after a horiffic injury and would like to see that full forward line actually play as named with Curran and the two Bennetts playing together near to goal - a lethal combination - ah but now I am dreaming - more likely they will be playing somewhere around our half back line but we live in hope

Deskjockey

ThaiTanic wrote: »

Waterford Senior Hurling Team named to face Dublin tomorrow in Croke Park at 5pm!

1. Ian O'Regan (Mount Sion)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Pet Daniels (De La Salle)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
9. Conor Gleeson (Fourmilewater)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Pauric Mahony (Ballygunner)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Stephen Bennett (Ballysaggart)
15. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggarart)

Strong enough team, good to see Stephen Bennett back starting, baffled by the decision to start Daniels.

Have to say I got a good laugh out of your take on number 7 there. My wife was asking me what I was giggling about

tomwaterford

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Am also baffled at how Shane Bennett starts every game but the likes of Brian o Halloran and Tomas Ryan can't get a chance!

Thomas ryan has had dozens of chances at inter county....must be knocking arounf with 7-8 years and has never taken them??


While sensational at club level he has never transferred that form to intercounty level.....brian ohalloren has had some terrible injuries and deos deserve another shot alright

mountgomery burns

Did I just read that Ronan Maher, who gave as good a display at center back as I've seen in all ireland final, referred to as a sub in last years all Ireland???

As for the team on Saturday, Brian O Halloran deserves to start after his impact the last day but Tommy Ryan is like the Andy Reid of Waterford GAA the last two weeks or so. Same fellas suggesting he start probably lambasted him after Cork 2012. Maybe they've forgotten...

Giveitfong

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Did I just read that Ronan Maher, who gave as good a display at center back as I've seen in all ireland final, referred to as a sub in last years all Ireland???

Sorry, that should have been Donagh Maher.

enoughtaken

seananigans wrote: »

1. Ian O'Regan (Mount Sion)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Tadhg de Burca (Clashmore / Kinsalebeg)
6. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
7. Stephen Daniels (De La Salle)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
9. Conor Gleeson (Fourmilewater)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle)
11. Pauric Mahony (Ballygunner)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Stephen Bennett (Ballysaggart)
15. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggart)

Madness. What's Derek at. One more from the West 😂😂😂😂 good team. Would have liked to have seen Brian o halloran start. Unusual that SOK has got no game time so far in league.

DiscoStew

blueflame wrote: »

Disapppinted to hear Dara Fives injured again - heard for very reliable source he played last weekend against Wexford and scored three points - if he is really injured again hope it is something small.

The team itself is fine with me - believe Daniels deserves a chance to prove himself again after a horiffic injury and would like to see that full forward line actually play as named with Curran and the two Bennetts playing together near to goal - a lethal combination - ah but now I am dreaming - more likely they will be playing somewhere around our half back line but we live in hope

Possibly just protecting Fives. Have heard from a number of different people that he did play last weekend. Not sure when can expect Mahony back but he'll have a battle to get back into the starting team.

mickmackmcgoo

tomwaterford wrote:

Thomas ryan has had dozens of chances at inter county....must be knocking arounf with 7-8 years and has never taken them??

mountgomery burns wrote:

As for the team on Saturday, Brian O Halloran deserves to start after his impact the last day but Tommy Ryan is like the Andy Reid of Waterford GAA the last two weeks or so. Same fellas suggesting he start probably lambasted him after Cork 2012. Maybe they've forgotten...

My point is that If Tomas Ryan and others are deemed good enough to be on the panel then they should be getting their chance to start in the league just like others got their chance against Tipp last time. If they don't take their chance so be it but they should be getting a start to prove their worth

ThaiTanic

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I reckon some people are jealous, maybe they were never picked by Derek for the Harty cup panel in school and it irkes them now to see the more talented boys make it at senior county level

I didnt even go to DLS you tit. I for one wont be suprised if Ger Cunningham targets Daniels and Dublin run us close. Dublin +3 with the bookmakers looks a good bet. Hope im wrong

dubcat51

I was at the cirk v dublin game.waterfird -3 very good bet for me.cork full back line were awful.lucky first goal for dublun changed the game.dublin pucjed out to conroy at right half fwd who had a height advantage over coleman.cork never changed anyone onto him and paid the price.dublin not as good as the scoreline.

carq

waterford wasteful already, 3 bad wides

Full forward line struggling to win ball

ThaiTanic

Waterford lucky to be within 2 points at halftime, their sleepover at carton house dosent look to have done them much good. Dublin missing easy frees and our lucky goal from mahonys free is the only reason we are still in touch. Could be down 7-8 points at this stage easy.

Daniels a liability as I've always said, useless and on a yellow.

Big second half needed

PTH2009

Dublin have there homework done

Daniels is going to get send off

ThaiTanic

Pet Dilion is on for his cameo appearance

ThaiTanic

Much better second half from Waterford, Aussie and TDB really came into it. Stevie had a good game and poached two goals and also hit two points. Mahony was good on frees, for me man of the match was Shane Fives, brilliant 70 mins from him.

Daniels was always a liability and just isn't good enough simple as that.

PTH2009

Happy with the win but we need to improve a lot. Dublin's wides and giving away 2 careless goals cost them the game. Maurice looked good when he came on,

We're not safe from the relagation but a win over cork next weekend will seal a QF place

Horseboxhead

the difference was 5 min before half time , Brick dropped deep and protected our half back line, First half looked dead, again when teams play in that pocket in front of De Burca, always causes us problems, poor game, Connors very unusual for first goal,We, again did not play well , but two wins, Typical Dublin side, just don't have enough hurling, willing enough, but when Waterford upped the intensity matched that, were just better , but still we look like a team in pre season, Stephen Bennett second half, was a plus took his two goals well, but against a better side, Curran and Bennett will be wasted playing like that. thing of Nothing, two win's though, Quarter final now, i can see us struggling all this league, just a feeling.

cul beag

Much better in the second half. Shane Fives excellent throughout. Still created no goal scoring opportunity only for 2 fortunate breaks in each half. Agree about Daniels and again Conor Gleeson found out under a stronger opponent. Moran was excellent in the second half as was Stephen Bennett but for God's sake what the f**k is the point in bringing in Dillon? What does Thomas Ryan have to do? Curran was very disappointing as was Jamie Barron but we'll be at least in a semi final now as we'll account for Cork next week so that will see us with a handy enough q/final. TDB cleaned in the first half but as we condensed the spare around him in the second half he powered into the game.

Dick phelan

Delighted to get the win very poor first half,Dublin played well but didn't make their advantage count on the scoreboard first half. Fives, TDB, Bennett were excellent, Gleeson and Brick came in to it in the 2nd half Mahony solid as always. Daniels isn't good enough to play top level intercounty hurling and probably never will be. Again hitting a lot of wides some of them bad wides. Great that we should be safe from relegation for another year but still lots to work on.

KevIRL

By my reckoning cork beating Kk tomorrow would suit us. Would leave kk on 0 and Dublin on 2 points with them still to play each other. If we were to finish on a level points total with either we'd get the higher league placing based on the head to head result.

PTH2009

KevIRL wrote: »

By my reckoning cork beating Kk tomorrow would suit us. Would leave kk on 0 and Dublin on 2 points with them still to play each other. If we were to finish on a level points total with either we'd get the higher league placing based on the head to head result.

Can't see Kilkenny losing 2morrow, they will be fired up but this is a crazy league and anything can happen
Qf
1St 1A vs 4th 1B
2nd 1A vs 3rd 1B
3rd 1A vs 2nd 1B
4th 1A vs 1st 1B

2nd/3rd or 4th for us means a QF vs one of Wexford/Limerick or Galway.

We got 4 points in 2014 and didn't qualify for the QFs so we could still not make it this year if we lose to both Cork and Clare

chinguetti

I was at the match and Waterford were poor in the first half but played better in the second half but God, Dublin were poor. You'ld wonder what are Cork up to at all.

We were gifted a goal by a really poor goalkeeper but our forwards were left isolated again for large periods. Our passing was very sloppy at times, driving the ball anywhere without trying to find a man is criminal. You would wonder what they are training for at all if they don't look to find a man.

Playing a two man forward line gives us some chance of winning the ball (the start of the second half) but the one man forward line is nuts. Twice in the second half, we had 14 men inside the Dublin half and we won the ball, drove it out and Dublin worked it back in and scored a point. A better side than the Dubs would have being further ahead by half time and wouldn't have coughed up a soft goal.

PTH2009

Anyway Good to win, but overall disappointing. It does appear that management are not learning. Shane Bennett needs a break, and a refocus. He clearly has the talent, but seems to spend each game chasing 3/2.on 1's. I believe there is more in him, if given the right role. Great to see Stephen Bennett do damage and Maurice coming on. Still need to be more positive approach ( I know it's rich from me!).

Deskjockey

A poor game of rugby today. This one man FF line thing is some ****e

Bonniedog

Horseboxhead wrote: »

Typical Dublin side, just don't have enough hurling, .

Usual nonsense. Some hurling gene in Waterford is there

We've won as much as you in last 60 years. Cop on.

Oh, and we have a football team


Fact is if Dublin had a full team they'd have won handily. Now, ponder that .....

Deiseen

Bonniedog wrote: »

Horseboxhead wrote: »

Typical Dublin side, just don't have enough hurling, .

Usual nonsense. Some hurling gene in Waterford is there

We've won as much as you in last 60 years. Cop on.

Oh, and we have a football team


Fact is if Dublin had a full team they'd have won handily. Now, ponder that .....

But ya didn't win... Ya lost by 5 points..... With us playing poorly..... And with 14 of our players in our own half for a good portion of the game..... Ponder that

robopaddy2

I would be reasonably pleased with that win, knowing that it is still barely March and we'll be a different side in the summer. The main positives from last night was bouncing back from the Tipp defeat with a win in Croke Park, the second half application of the players, and the big one for me, the performance of Stephen Bennett. I think we finally saw him come of age in the senior jersey, just hope he can stay injury free and drive on now for the year ahead.

But we need more from some of the other forwards. Curran in particular. Mahony from open play aswell can offer more. I agree with the poster who said Shane Bennett needs a rest. We need a fully fit and fully focused Maurice aswell. It was encouraging to see him come in a score a point. Brick Walsh can't keep carrying the can forever. Himself and Moran work so hard I get the feeling sometimes players seem to stand back and wait for them to do the donkey work. The first half I thought Dublin were the more aggressive and we were sluggish, but the second half we stepped up the intensity and Dublin didn't really seem to fancy it when it was put up to them. I get a feeling that Dublin side is pretty flaky, I wouldn't be too worried about meeting them later in the championship. Defensively we were ok. Shane Fives was outstanding again, as was TDB. People are giving out about Daniels but I didn't think he did too badly. He can be too rash  and he showed that in the KK game aswell. Noel Connors for me is a bigger worry. He was error prone tonight and looks slow anytime he is exposed. Conor Gleeson showed up well in times but I think hes better in the fullback line at the moment, a bit raw to be out midfield. I think he should be seriously considered at corner back instead of Noelie the next day. But we have good options coming off the bench so competition for places should be strong. With the first half performance though you wouldn't have thought so.
Onwards and upwards

mountgomery burns

I was at the game, anyone saying there was 14 in our own half for half the game wasn't at the game or wasn't watching. There was two in the full forward line for practically the whole game, and plenty of space to exploit. But the forwards were terrible for most of the game, and I think some peoples tendency to jump straight to blame tactics is giving them an easy way out.

They were a lot better second half, when you see how bad the first touch was in the first half I think its fair to say whatever the preparation were yesterday did not rank highly on the years targets but still a win.

I don't like singling anyone out either, but the difficulties Barry Coughlan had with Ryan O Dwyer was very concering.

Fred C Dobbs

Some misc. observations from last night .....

atmosphere in 1st half was very subdued, like a practice match really but intensified as the crowd starting to come in for the football ; this was a bit like our last match, i.e. while Tipp were in control that day, if some incidents had gone the other way, the result could have been different - last night, the Dublin free taker was a bundle of nerves (missed at least 3 very scoreable frees), secondly their goalie presented Stephen Bennett with a gift and you know there's only going to be one outcome in that scenario ;

Most of the players on Fitzgibbon duty have been a bit flat so far in the league - interesting that Jim Gavin said after his game that you wouldn't ask a greyhound to turn out as much as these lads ;

a few good tussles between Aussie and Liam Rushe, each knocking the other to the ground within the space of a few minutes - two real warriors ; finally, could and should Shane Fives be given the full back role ?

redlead

Very disappointing to see us revert to the usual self destruct mode in the last ten minutes. I.e build up a strong lead and then try your best to throw it away. I have a lot of respect for McGrath but he still hasn't accepted that parking the bus in hurling doesn't work. It's just stupid play! There is no chance of us getting to an all Ireland final if we keep this up. Overall it's hard complain when you're winning but we really do play a horrible brand of hurling. I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future I'm afraid.

chookieourlaw

Find it difficult to understand the optimism of some after Dublin game. Yes, it's great to see SB scoring 2-2 and it's positive to see us grinding out a win, but those goals, although well taken, only arose because of very poor defensive mistakes and they were the difference in the end. IMO a full Dublin team with all Cuala players would've beaten us. Also, we went 24 mins with only one point from play. This, coupled with a lack of scoring spread across the team - only five players scored - is a trend that has been too often replicated over the last year or so. This just won't cut the the mustard come championship.

chinguetti

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I was at the game, anyone saying there was 14 in our own half for half the game wasn't at the game or wasn't watching. There was two in the full forward line for practically the whole game, and plenty of space to exploit.

Not sure if this is regarding my post last night but they did change from a 2 man forward line to one the further the second half went on. Whether the players do this without thinking or by plan once we're ahead, worries me. I was there and I was watching the match.

As an aside, I stayed to watch the football too. To see Dublin defend in mass and then attack at pace is very impressive to watch.

mountgomery burns

chinguetti wrote: »

Not sure if this is regarding my post last night but they did change from a 2 man forward line to one the further the second half went on. Whether the players do this without thinking or by plan once we're ahead, worries me. I was there and I was watching the match.

As an aside, I stayed to watch the football too. To see Dublin defend in mass and then attack at pace is very impressive to watch.

No wasn't in response to your post. They did drop deeper nearing the end of the match, but to be fair the biggest concerns I had by far on yesterdays showing was the first 35 minutes.

PTH2009

chinguetti wrote: »

Not sure if this is regarding my post last night but they did change from a 2 man forward line to one the further the second half went on. Whether the players do this without thinking or by plan once we're ahead, worries me. I was there and I was watching the match.

As an aside, I stayed to watch the football too. To see Dublin defend in mass and then attack at pace is very impressive to watch.

Stayed for the first half of the football amazing play from Dublin but mayo struggled

I'd say if the Waterford footballers played Dublin it would be a horror show but it's amazing were playing westmeath today who played in the last 2 Leinster finals

TheScoringGoal

My biggest concern was our half forward line was cleaned out for 20 mins in the first half. In fairness Brick in particular came more into it but it was a concern. I'd have moved Austin Gleeson up a bit further to get under more puck outs. He was steady in the first half but I thought he was excellent in the second.

Is O Regan now the number one? To be fair he's done well. The one aspect he falls a bit short is his puck out isn't as long as the other top goalkeepers.

chookieourlaw

Rumours of Kilkenny's demise have been greatly exaggerated! How they are able to parachute in complete unknowns that play brilliantly on their debuts is frightening. Paddy Deegan at midfield excellent against Cork. Richie Leahy in half forwards also very good. Extremely hard to compete against that.

PTH2009

Footballers lost 3-13- 2-11 too Westmeath, we're down 1-7-0-01 at one stage