Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

TyrionPower

Deise189 wrote: »

I would love to see what Darragh Fives could do at number 11. He would have a better defensive mind than Gleeson would in that position i think, which would suit the system better and he can also easily pick off scores, like he showed against kilkenny in 2013- some of the best points i`ve ever seen! Problem would be throwing him into a munster semi after being out so long. Anyone know if we have challenges lined up before then as they would be a great chance to try Fives at half forward. Although I don`t know what his fitness is like. I think Aussie would be much better remaining wing back or else moving up to wing forward and moving some one else to the centre.

D Fives didn't play championship for Tourin at the weekend so he must be a bit away from being right..

mickotallow

The blue blaa wrote: »

I was at the Passage V Roanmore game and it was a fairly decent crowd but Passage would always bring a few in fairness,the weather hampered what could have been a decent game special Mention to Billy Nolan who scored 1-6 of Roanmores 1-7, all from placed balls on his senior debut not bad in thise conditions. Roanmore may feel they left it behind them and they had a chance to level it with a free last few seconds but it wasnt to be. Eoin Kelly made a difference when he came on playing a sweeper roll which I'm already so sick of watching every team seems to be dropping a man back like or not I'd love to see a bit of normality.

Young players i felt done well over the weekend in the two games i saw.
Jordan Henley (Tallow possible 2nd season )
Tom tucker Moran (DLS debut)
Billy Nolan (Roanmore debut)

I'd agree with the 3 young players. To score 1-6 in any match, placed balls or not is a good achievement but to do it on your senior hurling championship debut is a real sign that Billy Nolan could be the player we all hope he could be.
Tom Moran played very well wing back for DLS and showed great composure.
Jordan Henley showed great maturity to have a strong second half in midfield after being moved out of centre back. His runs were a real lift to the team.

This curse of the spare man at the back will lead to games turning into a tennis match with two spare men hitting sliotar to each other. Are every senior team going to copy the Waterford model now or will club managers have the brains and guts to play teams and tactics that suit their own team.

Cake Man

Good to hear some of those young lads standing out the weekend. Where did Billy Nolan play? You'd have to think if he's starting senior outfield for his club that'll be the end of his days on goal underage for the county.
Wonder how much difference he could've made outfield against Tipp or Limerick, he could've helped get us over the line in either of those games.

Top drawer

Cake Man wrote: »

Good to hear some of those young lads standing out the weekend. Where did Billy Nolan play? You'd have to think if he's starting senior outfield for his club that'll be the end of his days on goal underage for the county.
Wonder how much difference he could've made outfield against Tipp or Limerick, he could've helped get us over the line in either of those games.

He played wing forward the weekend, has always been an outfield player under his own age even with county teams but ive heard he has been to a few waterford senior sessions as a gk already

stumblingblock

Cake Man wrote: »

Wonder how much difference he could've made outfield against Tipp or Limerick, he could've helped get us over the line in either of those games.

It was a complete joke to be honest with you (as good a keeper as Billy is). One of the best young forwards in the county and this management team couldnt find a place for him anywhere outfield

Fireball07

stumblingblock wrote: »

It was a complete joke to be honest with you (as good a keeper as Billy is). One of the best young forwards in the county and this management team couldnt find a place for him anywhere outfield

He did make like 3 super saves to stop goals, maybe another keeper wouldn't have made them.

Gavin O'Mahony played in goal for the Limerick minors the year before they got to the All-Ireland final. And Nicky Quaid still plays in goal for Limerick despite being one of the best players in the Limerick club championship.


You could argue that he'd be more valuable outfield but having a safe pair of hands, and someone with good puckouts is possibly undervalued at times.

The Intruder

deisedude wrote: »

If Stephen Bennett starts he should be on frees

Ah here now!!! He doesn't even take em for Ballysaggart and the odd time he does more often than not he drills them low and the defence cut em out. Fantastic player but not the answer to Waterfords potential free taking problem

HatchetMan7

Jamie Barron, Stephan Bannett, Maurice Shanahan and Jake Dillon seem to be the contenders for the free taking role. IMO Jamie Barron has one of the hardest jobs to do for Waterford. Taking the ball off defenders and moving into attack. He is the only player we have that can do it as well as he's doing it. You need to have a great engine and quick sidestep to get around a congested middle third. He's playing out of his skin at the moment so i wouldn't like to see the extra pressure on him to take frees.
Stephan Bennett is still not 100% fit and he may never be due to his hip problems so i don't see him finishing any games. A free taker has to be on the field at all times especially when you need him the most in the last 10 min when the most pressure is on a free taker to score.
I'm not sure that Maurice free taking technique is a reliable way to score 90% of frees. Now i could be wrong but does he not take a step or two towards the ball and jab lift it. All the best free takers stand over the ball with their shoulder facing the goal, this to me is the most reliable way to be consistent at frees.
That leaves Jake Dillon, some say he is lucky to be starting ahead of some others but his work rate can never be questioned. He is also fairly accurate from play when he does go for a score. I would say it'll be Jake Dillon who gets the nod, he's seen as one of the more experienced players on the team and championship experience counts for alot. Has he a good scoring rate with DLS?

stumblingblock

Fireball07 wrote: »

He did make like 3 super saves to stop goals, maybe another keeper wouldn't have made them.

Gavin O'Mahony played in goal for the Limerick minors the year before they got to the All-Ireland final. And Nicky Quaid still plays in goal for Limerick despite being one of the best players in the Limerick club championship.


You could argue that he'd be more valuable outfield but having a safe pair of hands, and someone with good puckouts is possibly undervalued at times.

Valid points. But having been beaten by Tipp the call should have been made to bring him out. We hit an awful lot of wides against Tipp having dominated much of the game. Truth be told many of the forwards just didn’t perform and a stronger management team would have had a plan B. As it happened they went with the same starting 15 against Limerick and it was just more of the same. There were other options for goalkeeper I can tell you now, and Nolan was one of the best forwards on show in the senior championship over the weekend. Not saying we still would have won anything this year at minor but we were found badly short on the sideline and I hope theres someone with a bit more of a pedigree in next year.

stumblingblock

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Jamie Barron, Stephan Bannett, Maurice Shanahan and Jake Dillon seem to be the contenders for the free taking role. IMO Jamie Barron has one of the hardest jobs to do for Waterford. Taking the ball off defenders and moving into attack. He is the only player we have that can do it as well as he's doing it. You need to have a great engine and quick sidestep to get around a congested middle third. He's playing out of his skin at the moment so i wouldn't like to see the extra pressure on him to take frees.
Stephan Bennett is still not 100% fit and he may never be due to his hip problems so i don't see him finishing any games. A free taker has to be on the field at all times especially when you need him the most in the last 10 min when the most pressure is on a free taker to score.
I'm not sure that Maurice free taking technique is a reliable way to score 90% of frees. Now i could be wrong but does he not take a step or two towards the ball and jab lift it. All the best free takers stand over the ball with their shoulder facing the goal, this to me is the most reliable way to be consistent at frees.
That leaves Jake Dillon, some say he is lucky to be starting ahead of some others but his work rate can never be questioned. He is also fairly accurate from play when he does go for a score. I would say it'll be Jake Dillon who gets the nod, he's seen as one of the more experienced players on the team and championship experience counts for alot. Has he a good scoring rate with DLS?

I agree with that I think Dillon is the man to step up. He’s an excellent freetaker on his day aswell remember his performance for the u21s against Clare in Walsh Park a couple years back. Hes the kind of player who can grow in confidence and grow into games more when hes scoring frees. He has taken a bit of flak on here lately as someone who is only there on reputation . His form hasn’t been what people were expecting a couple years ago but his workrate has been phenomenal and maybe Paudies injury is the ideal opportunity for Jake to finally step up and show what he can do. I don’t think Maurice is consistent enough and hes only getting his confidence back this year with a new lease of life so Id say leave well enough alone for the minute. Jamie Barron is playing too far out rarely you see a midfielder brought in for close in frees theres too many other things to consider by the time hes back out to his position the ball has been pucked out and back in play. Stephen Bennett Id say no way As you said its questionable enough as it is whether hes actually ready for senior championship fitnesswise.

TyrionPower

stumblingblock wrote: »

I agree with that I think Dillon is the man to step up. He’s an excellent freetaker on his day aswell remember his performance for the u21s against Clare in Walsh Park a couple years back. Hes the kind of player who can grow in confidence and grow into games more when hes scoring frees. He has taken a bit of flak on here lately as someone who is only there on reputation . His form hasn’t been what people were expecting a couple years ago but his workrate has been phenomenal and maybe Paudies injury is the ideal opportunity for Jake to finally step up and show what he can do. I don’t think Maurice is consistent enough and hes only getting his confidence back this year with a new lease of life so Id say leave well enough alone for the minute. Jamie Barron is playing too far out rarely you see a midfielder brought in for close in frees theres too many other things to consider by the time hes back out to his position the ball has been pucked out and back in play. Stephen Bennett Id say no way As you said its questionable enough as it is whether hes actually ready for senior championship fitnesswise.

Jake Dillion was brilliant against Clare that day he shot the lights out, he put over everything... Funny wasn't Pauraic Mahony on the Field the same day? The frees were not going well for Pauraic at all at the time ...

stumblingblock

TyrionPower wrote: »

Jake Dillion was brilliant against Clare that day he shot the lights out, he put over everything... Funny wasn't Pauraic Mahony on the Field the same day? The frees were not going well for Pauraic at all at the time ...

If memory serves me right Pauric only came on as a sub that day. He had bad injury problems that year and it was actually the first bit of hurling hed played in a while....

conditioned games

stumblingblock wrote: »

If memory serves me right Pauric only came on as a sub that day. He had bad injury problems that year and it was actually the first bit of hurling hed played in a while....

He was the captain as well and Gavin o Brien the vice captain was also injured. Agree Nolan proved his worth in the goals with the minors, was waterford's man of the match in the limerick game.

Stacksofwacks

Does brick take frees for Stradbally? I seem to remember him taking frees in underage games years ago and being quite accurate but I dont know if he's been taking any in recent years

The blue blaa

Jake doesnt take them for DLS and we aren't exactly flush with free takers up there, the next best to Paudie Mahony is Martin O'Neill he's a good 8/10 free taker but will he get the nod?
i dont think so myself but we need a solid freetaker would we be willing to put him in?

Mountainlad

The blue blaa wrote: »

Jake doesnt take them for DLS and we aren't exactly flush with free takers up there, the next best to Paudie Mahony is Martin O'Neill he's a good 8/10 free taker but will he get the nod?
i dont think so myself but we need a solid freetaker would we be willing to put him in?

Didn't he take them when Derek was there in 2012? Who's taking them now?

Ropaire

Hows Daniels coming along, would he be close to playing against Cork?

TyrionPower

stumblingblock wrote: »

If memory serves me right Pauric only came on as a sub that day. He had bad injury problems that year and it was actually the first bit of hurling hed played in a while....

Ya you are dead right he only came on

deisedude

The Intruder wrote: »

Ah here now!!! He doesn't even take em for Ballysaggart and the odd time he does more often than not he drills them low and the defence cut em out. Fantastic player but not the answer to Waterfords potential free taking problem

On second thought I forgot it was Curran taking the frees for the minors in 2013 and not Bennett

TyrionPower

the free taking is going to be a big headache for us, Patrick Curran would be some man to have now he is so accurate, but that's not going to happen...
The only player tried before is Shanahan and he is too inconsistent...
Basically against Cork we will have to go with either Shanahan, who is probably a 6/10 man, or else someone who has never taken frees at senior inter county level before.... Both options aren't great but I think they will go with The safe option of Shanahan as opposed to a totally unknown...
It really makes a huge dent in our hopes, no-one can name with any confidence a potential free taker.... Not a good position to be in

Mountainlad

TyrionPower wrote: »

the free taking is going to be a big headache for us, Patrick Curran would be some man to have now he is so accurate, but that's not going to happen...
The only player tried before is Shanahan and he is too inconsistent...
Basically against Cork we will have to go with either Shanahan, who is probably a 6/10 man, or else someone who has never taken frees at senior inter county level before.... Both options aren't great but I think they will go with The safe option of Shanahan as opposed to a totally unknown...
It really makes a huge dent in our hopes, no-one can name with any confidence a potential free taker.... Not a good position to be in

Dillon took them in 2013 v Clare after Mahony came off in the league below in Ennis. Nailed a few, and then scored the winning point from a free on halfway right at the end.

coopdog85

Jake Dillon will be on the frees against Cork. He's an excellent free taker & the only good thing about Mahony's injury is it happened now & not a week or 2 before the game in training or something. Although it's a big blow for McGrath & the rest of the panel it's now time for someone else to stand up & from what I've seen this year there's no shortage of character in the panel. Plenty of time for Dillon to practice the frees & get his eye in & who knows he could be the one to step up & lead the team from the front, we all know he has the talent - it's up to him to show the rest of the country.

Psychedelic

Surely with some extra practice we can find a player who can hit 7 or 8 out of 10 frees. Compared to Mahony who's a 9/10, if we had someone hitting 8/10 it wouldn't make a huge difference, maybe cost us a point a game. If we can also bring our wide count down then losing Mahony wouldn't be as bad.

The real loss though is the crunch frees in the final minutes. Whereas Mahony is reliable under that sort of pressure maybe some of the others won't be and in a tight championship game could be the difference between winning and losing.

deiseach

coopdog85 wrote: »

Jake Dillon will be on the frees against Cork. He's an excellent free taker & the only good thing about Mahony's injury is it happened now & not a week or 2 before the game in training or something. Although it's a big blow for McGrath & the rest of the panel it's now time for someone else to stand up & from what I've seen this year there's no shortage of character in the panel. Plenty of time for Dillon to practice the frees & get his eye in & who knows he could be the one to step up & lead the team from the front, we all know he has the talent - it's up to him to show the rest of the country.

Good point. I think we'd all be feeling dismayed had any of the starting 15 suffered a season-ending injury. Everything was going so well, gone from no hopers to much hopers in the space of a few short months. Anything that gets stuck in the spokes feels like the kind of thing that would cause you to go head-first over the handlebars. Hopefully the management team will have enough time to put his absence out of the minds of the panel and the player who has to take up the free-taking duties.

The blue blaa

Mountainlad wrote: »

Didn't he take them when Derek was there in 2012? Who's taking them now?

Adam Farrell was taking them against tallow from 45 in Bryan Phelan was taking long range. Jake had a mare on the frees last year when Shane Ryan wasnt taking them,
and in 2012 it was between mullane Jake and John Keane.

Mountainlad

The blue blaa wrote: »

Adam Farrell was taking them against tallow from 45 in Bryan Phelan was taking long range. Jake had a mare on the frees last year when Shane Ryan wasnt taking them,
and in 2012 it was between mullane Jake and John Keane.

Who's in charge of De La Salle this year? McGrath might be having a word before the weekend

redlead

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Does brick take frees for Stradbally? I seem to remember him taking frees in underage games years ago and being quite accurate but I dont know if he's been taking any in recent years

I'd be shocked to learn that Brick is a good freetaker considering that he is such a poor striker of the ball. It's the only facet of his game that isn't exceptional.

I reckon Mahonys loss is probably about 2 points a game to us because he will score 9/10, or even 10/10 on a good day. Anyone thats coming in is going to be 7 or 8 out of 10 if we are lucky. Please God it isn't Maurice anyway. There could be a gael blowing and he'd still be ballooning the ball.

mickotallow

Mountainlad wrote: »

Who's in charge of De La Salle this year? McGrath might be having a word before the weekend

Ray Murphy who was involved with the minors this year is in charge of De La Salle I think.
I'd be very wary of Jake Dillion on frees. He's taken them against Tallow in 2014 & 2013 and missed 3/4 frees each day. I don't but this 9/10 or 8/10 free taker.
I could score 10/10 frees myself if they were in a good central position, doesn't make me a good free taker. This is a phrase Derek used to describe Pauric and fellas are getting hung up on it. What we need is a free taker who is good under pressure and strikes the ball well. Jake Dillion will prob be on frees against Cork because he took them for DLS when Derek was in charge. But I reckon Maurice will be pushing for them and has a good chance because if Maurice starts scoring frees he tends to contribute more from play as his confidence is up.

TyrionPower

Jake Dillon did have an absolute horror show on the frees for the minor Munster final in pairc Uí caoimh in 2011 as well

Mountainlad

To be fair, minors don't tend to be as reliable as seniors in any respect. He'd be a better striker of a ball now though obviously will need plenty of practice in the next 4 weeks.

Waterford cd

deisedude wrote: »

If Stephen Bennett starts he should be on frees

3rd choice free taker for ballysaggart??????????

PTH2009

Will Shane Bennett be back for the cork game ?? I knw the leaving normally starts the weds before.

Hopefully he was still training with the panel and will be some what fit to play.

Hopefully Patrick curran does join the panel next year. Hope he doesn't decide to go to America or somewhere

conditioned games

Austin Gleeson took some long range frees for the minors in 2013, might be another option to look at. Wouldn't be confident with Bennett, Maurice, Dillon or Martin o Neill taking them. There's no real standout option for the frees at the moment but at least there's a few weeks to try and sort it out.

archieknox

Have we any challenge games lined up in the near future? Hopefully we don't get anymore injuries this weekend after the second round of club games.

KevIRL

Hearing its likely to be Barron on frees

Cake Man

The worry is what happens if whoever gets the nod for the frees misses the first one or two - should another player be then given responsibility or keep faith with the first fella.
I'm not a fan of Maurice's freetaking style, any technique that involves a run up (even if it's just 2 or 3 steps) sacrifices accuracy to an extent. The close in frees shouldn't be a problem but it's those ones by the sideline 50m out that you'll suffer and this is before we talk about wind strength/direction. Ballooning the ball like Maurice does won't work in those conditions.

Jake could be the most logical choice as he has a decent strike of the ball but I do recall a few club and county games where he missed a few and was taken off them.

stumblingblock

Cake Man wrote: »

The worry is what happens if whoever gets the nod for the frees misses the first one or two - should another player be then given responsibility or keep faith with the first fella.
I'm not a fan of Maurice's freetaking style, any technique that involves a run up (even if it's just 2 or 3 steps) sacrifices accuracy to an extent. The close in frees shouldn't be a problem but it's those ones by the sideline 50m out that you'll suffer and this is before we talk about wind strength/direction. Ballooning the ball like Maurice does won't work in those conditions.

Jake could be the most logical choice as he has a decent strike of the ball but I do recall a few club and county games where he missed a few and was taken off them.

The frees are not a huge concern as far as I’m concerned. Im sure whoever takes over the freetaking duties will do a good job. And theres plenty other lads well and able if it dosent work out for one lad. At top level senior intercounty championship most players are accomplished freetakers. It’s a given that most frees will go over at this level. Yes Paudie is more consistent than most but its his absence from open play is the bigger loss in my opinion. Frees alone will not win you games its whatever team can score the most from play will ultimately shine through

Cake Man

Yeah I agree, I don't think this whole issue over who takes the frees will make any difference. Whoever does get the nod I've no doubt is well able to put at least 8/10 over. Not as if this is something they haven't done before and I'm sure they practice freetaking even if they aren't first choice.

What games are on the weekend? Please God a clean bill of health by Sunday night.

blueflame

Can we please stop making "mountains out of molehills". Yes - Paudie is a massive loss no doubt, but he is only one player and we have to get on with it. It is not as if Paudie was not human and not capable of having a mare himself - anyone who was in Tullamore only 2 months ago will remember Paudie having a complete mare that day, and he missed a number of handy ones against Clare in the first round two years ago. Who is to say he wouldn't have a bad day against Cork- he is human

Maurice / Jake / Jamie / Aussie or whoever are top inter county players and are all capable of scoring frees. Lets focus on our team strengths as a whole before we start worrying about who will convert frees. We have all been rambling on about this "team" and how we have loads of character and leaders - well let's find out - let's see how they stand up and fight - lets see what they are really made of and I personally think they will stand and fight. I am fed up listening to Pundits about how we are so dependent on our frees for scores, that could have to do with the fact that we are drawing the frees in scoreable positions thorough good quality play.

We have spent the majority of the last 20 years turning our "fullback position" into a poison chalice, let's not do it with our free taker. On the off chance that some of the players do read this site, i am sure they would be delighted to see everyone tear their free taking ability apart, that would be sure to instill confidence.

KevIRL

Lol blueflame. That killed the discussion anyway....

mickotallow

Predictions for games this weekend?

SkipFC

mickotallow wrote: »

Predictions for games this weekend?

Nothing only that I'm really looking forward to the Cappoquin v Lismore game. I remember a few years back a Lismore man saying to me that he hopes Cappoquin get promoted to senior so they get hammered in every game and go straight back down.

There's obviously no love lost between the two clubs and should make for a great game. I'd rather it wasn't in Ballyduff but that's just from a spectators point of view

cul beag

SkipFC wrote: »

Nothing only that I'm really looking forward to the Cappoquin v Lismore game. I remember a few years back a Lismore man saying to me that he hopes Cappoquin get promoted to senior so they get hammered in every game and go straight back down.

There's obviously no love lost between the two clubs and should make for a great game. I'd rather it wasn't in Ballyduff but that's just from a spectators point of view

I remember hearing a story of a current cappoquin player telling Mike Sullivan,when playing against Lismore at intermediate,while beating them,"to f**k back to junior where ye belong" So ya it should make for an interesting tie alright!!

Mountainlad

cul beag wrote: »

I remember hearing a story of a current cappoquin player telling Mike Sullivan,when playing against Lismore at intermediate,while beating them,"to f**k back to junior where ye belong" So ya it should make for an interesting tie alright!!

Lismore will lace them I reckon. Think Mount Sion, Tallow, Ballygunner, De La Salle and a draw in Passage v Dungarvan is how the rest will go.

archieknox

Mountainlad wrote: »

Lismore will lace them I reckon. Think Mount Sion, Tallow, Ballygunner, De La Salle and a draw in Passage v Dungarvan is how the rest will go.

We're struggling with a few injuries so id take a draw now! I was going to travel to Lismore this evening but seeing as Ballyduff are going for the fairplay award it will only be a love fest rather than a local derby!!! Sunday night at the love zone venue could be tastier between cappoquin and Lismore!!!

Mountainlad

Just read the Irish Times preview of the championship. Malachy Clerkin says Austin Gleeson is the best hurler in Waterford, Maria Crowe says he's the best in Ireland. Yet neither of them know where he plays. Your head would be wrecked reading it sometimes.

TyrionPower

cul beag wrote: »

I remember hearing a story of a current cappoquin player telling Mike Sullivan,when playing against Lismore at intermediate,while beating them,"to f**k back to junior where ye belong" So ya it should make for an interesting tie alright!!

I didn't think it will be that interesting a tie, Cappoquin got ate alive on the pitch and on the line the last day and not a lot will change in a week

The blue blaa

archieknox wrote: »

We're struggling with a few injuries so id take a draw now!

Who's missin for ye or who is doubtful

archieknox

The blue blaa wrote: »

Who's missin for ye or who is doubtful

Conor Sheridan our second choice fullback is now out, Sean Ryan is suspended after last week's sending off and Ryan Donnelly is still out along with Kevin Daly.

Alf Tupper

Tallow 2-15 Ballyduff 1-13. FT

Good win for Tallow. They seem to be going well this year.

As for Ballyduff, two defeats on the bounce. Not looking good. They can't always depend on leaving it late to make an impact!

I'd say they will be glad of the break to re group!