Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

revisionist

Mountainlad wrote: »

Too many wise after the event here. Home advantage irrelevant. The better team won. Well get there eventually.

Home advantage irrelevant ? Ludicrous....

thinkstoomuch1

Dick phelan wrote: »

Sometimes fans baffle me, The reality is Tipp were red hot favorites for a reason, what happened today was what most people expected, it's hardly a massive letdown they didn't win a game almost nobody thought they would. They hit some bad wides and distribution wasn't what it could be but all of a sudden some people want us to abandon our style of play because we've lost by 5 points to either the favorites or second favorites for the AI? We're a work in progress not the finished article did people honestly think we would win Munster and go on to win the AI? Wishful thinking in all honesty.

You have good points but to be fair you were one of those type of fans you now question in you went on kk thread and said on any given day ye could beat any team in ireland and felt ye had the talent and were the real deal and complained waterford weren't been taken seriously enough

Naturally enough a defeat does make views more rational and fair enough you now realise yere very very much a work in progress

tomwaterford

revisionist wrote: »

Home advantage irrelevant ? Ludicrous....

How would playing in Limerick in material way affected the result??


Look it...I think they can improve enough to beat Dublin and kk (A semi v kk could be. A real cracker!!)....could they get a second shot at tipp???

Deise Hurler

What changes would lads like to see for the Dublin match. Personally would like to see Shane Bennett or Patrick Curran in for Eddie Barrett, as they offer more of a scoring treat.
Great effort from all the players today.
Plenty to be learned from it. Hope Gleeson is watching the Sunday game and Donal Ogs analysis in particular.
Onwards and upwards.

TGV

revisionist wrote: »

Home advantage irrelevant ? Ludicrous....

I agree the better team won and congrads to Tipp. To be honest I am not criticising the decision on the venue, but it is worth a few point to the home team. We needed to play much better in the 2nd half to offset this unfortunately this did not happen today.

revisionist

tomwaterford wrote: »

How would playing in Limerick in material way affected the result??


Look it...I think they can improve enough to beat Dublin and kk (A semi v kk could be. A real cracker!!)....could they get a second shot at tipp???

We will never know how playing anywhere else would have been different but it was hugely influential today. It was a decision of monumental,unmitigated,incredible stupidity to play in Thurles, It was made I understand for financial consideration ....shameful,,,,, we are worse than the fai

culbaire

revisionist wrote: »

Home advantage irrelevant ? Ludicrous....

Correct. Would Tipperary concede home advantage to Waterford? You bet it would not.
In that case why play any National League games at home? Why not concede home advantage?
Tipperary players have more experience playing at Semple Stadium. Can be very important for forwards aiming to strike long range points. Tipperary also had the majority support. Killarney would have been my choice.

culbaire

revisionist wrote: »

We will never know how playing anywhere else would have been different but it was hugely influential today. It was a decision of monumental,unmitigated,incredible stupidity to play in Thurles, It was made I understand for financial consideration ....shameful,,,,, we are worse than the fai

You hit the nail on the head. Would Cork concede home venue to Tipperary? It would not.

carter10

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You have good points but to be fair you were one of those type of fans you now question in you went on kk thread and said on any given day ye could beat any team in ireland and felt ye had the talent and were the real deal and complained waterford weren't been taken seriously enough

Naturally enough a defeat does make views more rational and fair enough you now realise yere very very much a work in progress

You have some cheek coming on here now. no sign of you since you embarrassed yourself after the league final. You've been waiting like a snake in the grass to come back on the minute we lose- worse type of wun. now toddle along and ruin some other thread with your really poor writing style

tomwaterford

revisionist wrote: »

We will never know how playing anywhere else would have been different but it was hugely influential today. It was a decision of monumental,unmitigated,incredible stupidity to play in Thurles, It was made I understand for financial consideration ....shameful,,,,, we are worse than the fai

Waterford would have been even more outnumbered if it was in Limerick

I could understand your complaint if cork was available but it's not....and sour grapes to think it being in thurles affected the result IMO
What would Waterford have done different in a stadium where they haven't won in championship in a long time


It would be as bad as blaming one ref descision when you've 70 mins to go out and beat the team

Stacksofwacks

Mountainlad wrote: »

Too many wise after the event here. Home advantage irrelevant. The better team won. Well get there eventually.

Too right. I think the expectations of some have got a bit unreasonable. Whatever happens, it will go down as a good year. If we can get over Dublin and then put up a good showing against Kilkenny it will go down as an excellent year. I just hope this loss dosen't take the wind out of the sails of some players particularly the u21's who have a real chance of going all the way this year.

Figsy32

culbaire wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head. Would Cork concede home venue to Tipperary? It would not.

We've already conceded it to Kerry in the football this year so that's not exactly true!

wallywhittle

<SNIP>

culbaire

O Riain wrote: »

When you listen to the media and label this system as defensive then you are going to come up with replies like you just made. Yes the system involves boys hanging back but also an extremely big part of it, is boys racing forward for support. We are able to put up big scores with this style but today we just did not fire completely. That's not to say we capitulated and got hammered because we didn't. It just didnt go 100% today. But I am now convinced that the "system" is a good one. To lose by 5 points to Tipp in their home grown is proof that the "system" works. In fact it was only the last 5 minutes that they actually pulled away, i will accept that any day of the week.

What is developing is a type of bastardised hurling with massed defenses, short passes, ruck and maul pick and poke hurling. It has infected several counties but especially Waterford. It is horrible to watch. Waterford will not beat Kilkenny with one or two players in the full forward line. There is a glaring weakness in the full back-line. Tadhg De Burca is wasted as sweeper who covers this weakness. So essentially Waterford is playing with 14 men. Then we have short pucks out which yielded two soft points to Tipperary today. We had the usual nonsense with the team selection. Waterford should have gone for broke in the last 15 minutes. Instead the players were hampered by the system. We just might have snatched it. Another interesting question: How many ground balls were struck by players on either side today? Practically none. The system is too predictable. Clever coaches like Cody know exactly what to expect.. What is developing now is a form of rugby/soccer/hurling. It is a bastardised game that I detest. It is going down the same road as Gaelic "football". Contrast it with the free flowing hurling played by Waterford teams under Justin McCarthy and Gerald McCarthy

TGV

wallywhittle wrote: »

hope your all ready down there for another bateing off kilkenny.

And this why it is so hard for a neutral to shout for Kilkenny.

STIG83

wallywhittle wrote: »

hope your all ready down there for another bateing off kilkenny.

Need to beat Dublin first!!

Stacksofwacks

wallywhittle wrote: »

hope your all ready down there for another bateing off kilkenny.

Groundhog day. thats probably wots gonna end up happening, the stripey men look in serious shape again. Maybe if we learn some UFC techniques we could have a chance..

culbaire

Figsy32 wrote: »

We've already conceded it to Kerry in the football this year so that's not exactly true!

That should not have happened.

thinkstoomuch1

culbaire wrote: »

That should not have happened.

Were else were going to play it

The Páirc is out of action

Mountainlad

culbaire wrote: »

That should not have happened.

They've a home and away agreement with Tipp. Completely banal point to make.

Dick phelan

Forget home advantage before today i think most Waterford people were happy for it to be in Thurles. Reality is we can be proud of our lads but Tipp just had the bit extra and would have had whether it was in Semple or Gaelic Grounds.

JeffKenna

It doesn't matter if the match was held in timbuktu, if you only score 6 points in 35 minutes of hurling then you're not going to win a Munster Final.

Tramore84

The venue had little to do with the result imo. This evening is difficult because that's another Munster final down the drain but realisticallly the better team won today. Tipp are further along in their development and have a more experienced management team but Waterford played well and could have been closer still to Tipp if wr hadn't given a couple of scores to Tipp on a plate. We have won a national title, reached a Munster final and I expect us to get to a an AI semi- final too - not a bad year so far given how low we had sunk in nowlan park against Wexford last year.

tomwaterford

culbaire wrote: »

What is developing is a type of bastardised hurling with massed defenses, short passes, ruck and maul pick and poke hurling. It has infected several counties but especially Waterford. It is horrible to watch. Waterford will not beat Kilkenny with one or two players in the full forward line. There is a glaring weakness in the full back-line. Tadhg De Burca is wasted as sweeper who covers this weakness. So essentially Waterford is playing with 14 men. Then we have short pucks out which yielded two soft points to Tipperary today. We had the usual nonsense with the team selection. Waterford should have gone for broke in the last 15 minutes. Instead the players were hampered by the system. We just might have snatched it. Another interesting question: How many ground balls were struck by players on either side today? Practically none. The system is too predictable. Clever coaches like Cody know exactly what to expect.. What is developing now is a form of rugby/soccer/hurling. It is a bastardised game that I detest. It is going down the same road as Gaelic "football". Contrast it with the free flowing hurling played by Waterford teams under Justin McCarthy and Gerald McCarthy

Where would you put de burca who is v.effective as the sweeper??
As I do recall him getting a torrid time off harnady??


As far as I can see Waterford played noting to there potential today

Where were the runs from midfield with a player over marking to take the pass??

The real standout point of the success againest cork....no attempt to break into space (which looked available from the terrace) for a pass....no one wants to see a one man full forward line....but why have a supposed system and not implement the few positives aspects of it??

thinkstoomuch1

tomwaterford wrote: »

Where would you put de burca who is v.effective as the sweeper??
As I do recall him getting a torrid time off harnady??


As far as I can see Waterford played noting to there potential today

Where were the runs from midfield with a player over marking to take the pass??

The real standout point of the success againest cork....no attempt to break into space (which looked available from the terrace) for a pass....no one wants to see a one man full forward line....but why have a supposed system and not implement the few positives aspects of it??

Harnedy did not I repeat did not play championship v waterford for Cork like you said

culbaire

tomwaterford wrote: »

Where would you put de burca who is v.effective as the sweeper??
As I do recall him getting a torrid time off harnady??


As far as I can see Waterford played noting to there potential today

Where were the runs from midfield with a player over marking to take the pass??

The real standout point of the success againest cork....no attempt to break into space (which looked available from the terrace) for a pass....no one wants to see a one man full forward line....but why have a supposed system and not implement the few positives aspects of it??

I would play De Burca at wing back. He has the skill. I reckon De Burca has the ability to become a good full back. Hurling is a simple game.

The Waterford style traditionally is to move the ball at speed. Waterford generally used ground hurling as another weapon. Picking the ball in tight situations was frowned upon. You wont beat Kilkenny by continuously picking the ball in tight situations. They are best at that. You move the ball at pace and keep them guessing.
Returning to the system: When Stephen Bennett kicked the ball across the goal today there was no in rushing forward to give it a tap in because the system left us short of forwards.

thinkstoomuch1

JeffKenna wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the match was held in timbuktu, if you only score 6 points in 35 minutes of hurling then you're not going to win a Munster Final.

Valid point
Only nine points from play in seventy minutes for waterford compared to tippeary thirteen show the problem with waterford system imo

paddy13

Lads relax a bit. It was a good effort by the lads. All i hope now is U21's regroup for Wednesday. A win there would be a good boost for the county. We were close to beating Tipp today which is good considering they are second best in the country. Really proud of the lads. Maybe not swashbuckling hurling but more effective in my opinion. If we went man to man they would have hurt us. We don't have the same quality of forwards as Tipp at the moment.
I think going forward we need to start one or two more capable scorers probably paddy Curran but I'm very happy with the level of progress we have made this year.

culbaire

STIG83 wrote: »

Need to beat Dublin first!!

The game will not be one for the purists. Dublin will fancy themselves against Waterford. It is likely to be a slugfest.

Dick phelan

I'm sorry if there's one area and in fact one player who's been used correctly it's De Burca, Nothing wrong with the defense it's more solid then i'v ever seen it.

paddy13

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Valid point
Only nine points from play in seventy minutes for waterford compared to tippeary thirteen show the problem with waterford system imo

No problem imo with system just needs tweaking here and there. If we had been more measured with our passing and shooting, it would have been closer. We'll always have doubters given our unorthodox system but after today, even though we lost, I believe even more so in this management and team!

HatchetMan7

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Harnedy did not I repeat did not play championship v waterford for Cork like you said

Relax he never said he did, he was talking about the league final.

thinkstoomuch1

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Relax he never said he did, he was talking about the league final.

Fair enough but he didn't say which game so understanding so you see my point


When ye naming team for Wednesday
I hope ye win

thinkstoomuch1

paddy13 wrote: »

No problem imo with system just needs tweaking here and there. If we had been more measured with our passing and shooting, it would have been closer. We'll always have doubters given our unorthodox system but after today, even though we lost, I believe even more so in this management and team!

It imo needs huge tweaking


This has not been a one off all league and now again ye scoring from plays is poor such the outstanding Jo-Anne cantwell asked McGrath after the game but he didn't really imo give answer say he acknowledge there was problem their

paddy13

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

It imo needs huge tweaking


This has not been a one off all league and now again ye scoring from plays is poor such the outstanding Jo-Anne cantwell asked McGrath after the game but he didn't really imo give answer say he acknowledge there was problem their

I don't agree but I feel more support runners are needed and better execution in our delivery or shooting. I hope I'm right too. I believe this has a lot more to deliver. Over the years system will have to change as it's a young mans game at present. I think Derek realises that himself. We'll only truly know how far we've come this year if we can beat Dublin and play kk. Now i don't think we are quite good enough to topple them this year but I think we are going in the right direction.

deisechap09

Incredible some of the doom and gloom here tonight! Yes we lost, but if a couple of those bad wides had gone over at the start of the 2nd half its a different game. Our backs were excellent but we dont have forwards of the quality of a Bubbles or Callanan yet, though Shan has been outstanding.
Really felt we missed Pauric Mahony today, we picked up alot of ball 60 yards out today where he could have made a huge difference, be it a clever pass or a possible score, his composure on the ball was really missed.
Hopefully we beat Dublin in 2 weeks, be great for this team to play KK, not sure we can beat them, just think they are that bit too physical at this point but it will be closer than people think and hopefully croker will bring the best out of this team, we are not gone yet!

paddy13

deisechap09 wrote: »

Incredible some of the doom and gloom here tonight! Yes we lost, but if a couple of those bad wides had gone over at the start of the 2nd half its a different game. Our backs were excellent but we dont have forwards of the quality of a Bubbles or Callanan yet, though Shan has been outstanding.
Really felt we missed Pauric Mahony today, we picked up alot of ball 60 yards out today where he could have made a huge difference, be it a clever pass or a possible score, his composure on the ball was really missed.
Hopefully we beat Dublin in 2 weeks, be great for this team to play KK, not sure we can beat them, just think they are that bit too physical at this point but it will be closer than people think and hopefully croker will bring the best out of this team, we are not gone yet!

Fully agree with you on every point. We badly missed Pauric, I'm hoping the U21's win and gives team a boost and I think we'll have a one or two new forwards starting the next day out. Though of them were bad just i think players like Paddy Curran especially might add the little bit extra scoring prowess.

culbaire

Dick phelan wrote: »

I'm sorry if there's one area and in fact one player who's been used correctly it's De Burca, Nothing wrong with the defense it's more solid then i'v ever seen it.

He as good as played at full back today. Maybe that would be his best position. Reckon he could play anywhere in the back-line. The full back-line problem is being solved by creating a new one in the forward line. We wont score goals with 1 or 2 forwards in the full line if we meet Kilkenny. Should try Tadgh De Burca at full back against Dublin. Push more players into full forward line.

PTH2009

Disapointing day Tipp were there for the taking. This defeat will hurt this team but we have to move on

Dublin in 2 weeks in the quarters, we may of got the so called easier draw but it will be hard and they will hold no fear of us. We're the 2pm game and Galway vs cork is 4pm in thurles or nowlan park.

Dick phelan

culbaire wrote: »

He as good as played at full back today. Maybe that would be his best position. Reckon he could play anywhere in the back-line. The full back-line problem is being solved by creating a new one in the forward line. We wont score goals with 1 or 2 forwards in the full line if we meet Kilkenny. Should try Tadgh De Burca at full back against Dublin. Push more players into full forward line.

So how would you have us line up then? I think in terms of the defense we really should take the attitude if it ain't broke don't fix it.

culbaire

Dick phelan wrote: »

So how would you have us line up then? I think in terms of the defense we really should take the attitude if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But the problem is that we are then short forwards. I would try Tadgh De Burca at full back. I would have a 3 man full forward line. I would pull out 3 half forwards more towards centre field.
I would drop the two centre field players back somewhat. Then I would pull the half backs back somewhat. The full backline would have shield enough I reckon. I would play more direct ball. I would use less hand passing. I would use some ground hurling in the vicinity of the goals. I would drop the short pucks out. Caused 2 points against Tipperary. There should be less picking and poking when contesting the ball on the ground. Why is it players in many counties keep attempting to pick a ball in ruck situations. These rucks are ruining the game. Ground hurling has almost completely disappeared. Goalies are terrified of the good ground shot. Ground balls can beat the best of goalkeepers. Taking shots at goal from hopeless positions must stop. There must be more low ball going into the forwards. And of course we need a man running into position to take a pass from a player who is bottled up.
We need much more scoring power if we are to really make the big breakthrough.

robopaddy2

deisechap09 wrote: »

Incredible some of the doom and gloom here tonight! Yes we lost, but if a couple of those bad wides had gone over at the start of the 2nd half its a different game. Our backs were excellent but we dont have forwards of the quality of a Bubbles or Callanan yet, though Shan has been outstanding.
Really felt we missed Pauric Mahony today, we picked up alot of ball 60 yards out today where he could have made a huge difference, be it a clever pass or a possible score, his composure on the ball was really missed.
Hopefully we beat Dublin in 2 weeks, be great for this team to play KK, not sure we can beat them, just think they are that bit too physical at this point but it will be closer than people think and hopefully croker will bring the best out of this team, we are not gone yet!

I think its more of a realisation that the system will ultimately only take us so far. Yesterday showed we will not win any AI Ireland playing that system that’s for sure. When you come against a team like Tipp or KK with real top quality forwards the system will eventually crack. We never got within an asses roar of a goal yesterday which was a big worry and if we end up in a semi against KK it will be much of the same as yesterday. Mind you I think it’s dangerous that people expect us to get over Dublin aswell. Reality bites don’t get me wrong theres still plenty to be positive about we are a team for the future but we need to evolve if we are to improve

cornerboy

Dick phelan wrote: »

I'm sorry if there's one area and in fact one player who's been used correctly it's De Burca, Nothing wrong with the defense it's more solid then i'v ever seen it.

The defence is always going to be solid with 4 in the fullback line and 4 in half backline. Problem is how do you beat a Tipp or KK with that setup. Im disappointed that we didnt go all out to win it in last 10 mins.......might have lost by more but who cares at that point.

Pretty fast

Unlucky yesterday lads. Limerick are out so now I stand full square behind The Decie.

Pick it up now and full steam ahead. This team are well capable of beating any of the remaining teams. The A I is there to be taken this year.

Up The deise!!!!!!!

archieknox

Anyone surprised by the selection of Eddie Barrett?

culbaire

archieknox wrote: »

Anyone surprised by the selection of Eddie Barrett?

Amazed!!

blueflame

Have never heard such utter bull**** in my life as what has come out on here and media in last 24 hours. The Waterford system worked yesterday, we didn't win the game but it worked. It is designed at keeping the opposition to a scoreline that gives us a chance of outscoring them and by limiting Tipp to 21 points we did that. Simple fact is we missed at least three or four tap over points, and Stephen Bennett was within a whisker of scoring a goal with Dunford being unlucky also. Tipp on the other hand had one shot on Socks from a tight angle. In addition James Owen played a silly advantage when we gained possession on the sideline, having had a tap over free at our mercy. which is a game this tight is everything. Add to these the two very silly points we gave away with a poor puck outs and a poor clearance by Socks. These are the margins that games are won and lost on at a top level.

Yes it did not work as free flowing in attack as previous games but you must remember, yesterday was championship at its peak against one of the two top sides in the country who had ample time to study the system and for long parts of the game struggled badly with it. Experience played a massive part in yesterdays result. For Tom Devine, Stephen and Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran it was an introduction to a new level, and this will bring them on, they will learn from yesterday. Eddie Barrett had his first seriously competitive hurling game in over 12 months, and his first introduction to our system at this level, at times looked off the pace but this game will bring him on a mile. Darragh Fives returned to the fray adding a whole new world of options to us. Aussie was poor by his own standards but he will return.

Yes our attack did falter with bad decision making, we had at least three attempts at points striking the ball off the Hurley on the run when letting the ball across was a better option, and this needs to be worked on. I believe the system will evolve and we will be come more expansive, but it is important to keep the momentum going, The positions from yesterday far outweigh the negatives. for example.

Full back line looked steady out and Coughlan is growing in to the full back position with every game. Gleeson has so much more to offer than he delivered yesterday . Barrett has gotten a first game under his belt and will come on from this, Darragh Fives is back, Maurice showed yet again yesterday he is up there with the best, and The two Bennett's, Curran and Devine have gotten their introductions to life at the top and while things didn't necessarily go for them they will have learned a lot and will be better players for it.

There plenty things to work on, but in hindsight this result may turn out to be the makings of this team - I am sure somewhere in the back of many peoples minds, was the possibility of being opened up by a genuine All Ireland contender on their home ground on Munster Final day. it didn't happen. Had we won yesterday the euphoria and media frenzy would have been massive and it would be easy to get carried away. As it is we have time to refocus, get our heads down and work hard against Dublin and try and get a result, which believe me will not be easy. If we do we will face KK with a bit of momentum, and in my opinion an AI Semi-final is when they are at their most vulnerable (ha ha)

Almost 12 months on from Nolan Park we are disappointed at being narrowly beaten in a Munster Final (remember having lost Pauric Mahony for the championship), Wexford who were full of hope that might have stayed in Div 2 and been dumped out of the championship, while we who were in the depths of despair have lost our first competitive game in 2015 - and it's not over yet

deiseach

I was going to say there were some awfully grouchy people on here. Then I read blueflame's post, and saw that grouchy can be just fine.

thinkstoomuch1

Pretty fast wrote: »

Unlucky yesterday lads. Limerick are out so now I stand full square behind The Decie.

Pick it up now and full steam ahead. This team are well capable of beating any of the remaining teams. The A I is there to be taken this year.

Up The deise!!!!!!!

I'm a cork man and we had a huge huge win Saturday and we showed signs chance in system but huge game v Galway

We have a good chance but no certainly

I don't think if we win that even any cork man belive we will challenge kk this year yet as kk are imo miles ahead rest bar tippeary who may not have the resolve beat them


My point is Cork aren't even thinking we can bear kk

This any given day imo is nonsense and futile against one team ireland in kk in every box must be ticked or at best you'll loose few points or draw but won't actually win

I don't see how waterford who are a defensive team in most ways will have time or I doubt that will change the style hugely to beat kk in yes will beat Dublin


Look at statics all league waterford struggle to score from play

Nine points yesterday highlights that

Cork tippeary and even looser clare got around fourteen or fifteen from play

Cork scored more on a bad night for hurling and yet kk still be huge ask
Kk have broken down mass defences before and will do again and won't conceded as much as tippeary so I can't see waterford beating them

I'd love waterford to win in opens up the championship and stops kk winning again but as Reid said last week when they dominated Galway second gear their real work starts all ireland semi final

Imo huge statement for the rest of the teams in kk are only warming up
Waterford gave everything yesterday and credit to management and players and they threw kitchen sink ar tippeary but the bottom line is they still lost by five points

To beat kk they will need a whole lot more
I don't think they have the attack or will change it to beat them and croke park will also be a huge factor as it's like a home game for kk

The only team to beat kk is tippeary and doubts remain over them do they truly belive they can

Cork Galway and waterford and Dublin are further of kk imo

hardybuck

Some observations from the game yesterday and in general:

1. If you told me in January that Waterford would lose their first game of 2015 in a Munster final in mid July I'd have called you mad. Great progress.

2. An awful lot of people in attendance really don't have a clue about the game, and these seem to be among the most vocal!

3. All Irelands have already been won with this 'system'. More will also. It was great to see Waterford play a Munster final and not concede 7 goals! But seriously, the honesty of effort and tenacity displayed by the lads was excellent.

4. Austin Gleeson has so much potential, but needs a lot of work. Decision making is very frustrating at times. While he is obviously still very young, he's making a lot of the same mistakes he was last year. I hope someone is giving him time and reviewing his performances afterwards. Someone like Ken McGrath/Tony Browne/Fergal Hartley might be an ideal mentor?

5. Fine margins. SOK giving away cheap possession for 2-3 points. A goal chance going amiss, some poor wides. All at crucial periods of the game. That was the diffrerence between winning and losing.

6. Size. We're a small outfit. The age profile of the squad partly explains this. The likes of Tipp and KK in particular have a couple more years of conditioning in them, and it shows.

7. We're missing a marquee forward. All of the other All Ireland contenders have at least one of these. One may develop from our ranks yet however.

8. We'll have a great chance of making a semi, and maybe even a final. However I think that for 2015 at least, we're a little bit away from Tipp and KK who I see as being the top two teams.