Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

DLS2THECORE

This is the time of the year when the transfer merry go round swings into action, any talk of players going here or there? Presume the deadline is the first Friday in January like previous years?

PTH2009

DLS2THECORE wrote: »

This is the time of the year when the transfer merry go round swings into action, any talk of players going here or there? Presume the deadline is the first Friday in January like previous years?

Heard Tom Devine (part of Ireland's fittest family) is going to dungarvan

deisemum

De La Salle drew today so go through to the next stage of the Harty Cup.

Deise_2012

Did Devine have a falling out with Derek Mcgrath just before the KK semi final?

DiscoStew

PTH2009 wrote: »

Heard Tom Devine (part of Ireland's fittest family) is going to dungarvan

This was certainly seeming very likely throughout the year. Seems that now he wants to give another year with Modeligo after missing the county final last year with a hand injury. Has he played any part with UCC in this years league games? Or is he still ruled out with the hand injury? Don't think he played when Modeligo claimed the junior football county title.

DLS2THECORE

Anybody know if there were any points of interest to note at last nights county convention in Lawlors?

thesultan

josip wrote:

Why is she the only one not wearing socks?

Suppose to write off the debt in two years. We are getting 250 k in sponsorship. Clubs still have to pay the levy. New Secretary. What will he be like? Firstly could they not start the championships earlier?

HatchetMan7

Is there any truth to this rumour that former Meath minor hurler Jack Fagan joining DLS and training with Waterford senior hurling team.

JesusRef

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Is there any truth to this rumour that former Meath minor hurler Jack Fagan joining DLS and training with Waterford senior hurling team.

Ya it's true

JesusRef

thesultan wrote: »

Suppose to write off the debt in two years. We are getting 250 k in sponsorship. Clubs still have to pay the levy. New Secretary. What will he be like? Firstly could they not start the championships earlier?

Ya the county board patting themselves on the back publicly with no mention of bleeding the club's dry

HatchetMan7

JesusRef wrote: »

Ya it's true

i know its too early to tell but how much of an impact could he make for the senior team and more importantly the under 21 team. A serious talent at minor level. You'd have to feel sorry for the Meath team to lose one of there best and brightest.

PTH2009

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

i know its too early to tell but how much of an impact could he make for the senior team and more importantly the under 21 team. A serious talent at minor level. You'd have to feel sorry for the Meath team to lose one of there best and brightest.

he was never going to be successful with Meath. Im sure there are many top class hurlers from non hurling strongholds who feel they would be better to move to a stronger hurling county if the opportunity of work/study etc arises

Cake Man

Who is this lad, how old is he and is he any good?
Haven't heard of him myself but if he is any way decent his talent will surely be better developed in Waterford than Meath (rightly or wrongly).
What brings him to Waterford, is he working/in college here?

HatchetMan7

Cake Man wrote: »

Who is this lad, how old is he and is he any good?
Haven't heard of him myself but if he is any way decent his talent will surely be better developed in Waterford than Meath (rightly or wrongly).
What brings him to Waterford, is he working/in college here?

He's around 20 years old, stared with Meath minor team as a full forward as far as i know. Played with Carlow IT and apparently has come on leaps and bounds since training with them. Big addition to next years Under 21 hurling team, just a pity that Billy Nolan isn't allowed to play for the U21 team.
Apparently Jack Fagan knows some of the Waterford players and played with Colin Dunford with Carlow IT.

Deise_2012

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

He's around 20 years old, stared with Meath minor team as a full forward as far as i know. Played with Carlow IT and apparently has come on leaps and bounds since training with them. Big addition to next years Under 21 hurling team, just a pity that Billy Nolan isn't allowed to play for the U21 team.
Apparently Jack Fagan knows some of the Waterford players and played with Colin Dunford with Carlow IT.

He's hardly here cause of friends? There has to be a proper reason for transferring

Why isn't Billy allowed to play?

HatchetMan7

Deise_2012 wrote: »

He's hardly here cause of friends? There has to be a proper reason for transferring

Why isn't Billy allowed to play?

I don't know why he transferred as for Billy Nolan not playing is because the rules changed for u21 grade at inter county level. You must be over 18 which comes in for the 2016 season.

robopaddy2

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

i know its too early to tell but how much of an impact could he make for the senior team and more importantly the under 21 team. A serious talent at minor level. You'd have to feel sorry for the Meath team to lose one of there best and brightest.

Not something I totally agree with to be honest. Remember that Kildare hurler who transferred down to Tipp u21s a couple years back? He was supposed to be the next biggest thing. Havent heard much of him since. There are no guarantees.

TheScoringGoal

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Not something I totally agree with to be honest. Remember that Kildare hurler who transferred down to Tipp u21s a couple years back? He was supposed to be the next biggest thing. Havent heard much of him since. There are no guarantees.

You mean Conor Kenny? If so he transferred last year and was part of their championship match day panel wasn't he?

robopaddy2

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

You mean Conor Kenny? If so he transferred last year and was part of their championship match day panel wasn't he?

Yea that’s him but It wasn’t last year it was about 3 yearsago now. I think he is Brendan Mahers cousinso there was family connections at least but it appears this Fagan lad hasabsolutely no Waterford connection whatsoever. Dosent live, work or study inthe county. If it’s because he hangs around with a couple of the Waterford ladsin college then I might transfer to Hong Kong

HatchetMan7

No one likes to see good players leave weaker counties to join one of the stronger counties especially in hurling but the player has every right to make that decision and who knows maybe there is a valid reason other than a better chance of winning silverware. You could make the argument that fulfilling his potential is a valid reason which he would have a better chance of doing with Waterford than Meath.

Waternut

Should be interesting to see how Fagan goes, the step up to top class county hurling is massive, even from Colleges level. He could be worth a look.

Does anyone have an update on any new names on the panel. I wouldn't have been one of his bigger fans in the past but I think Brian O'Sullivan should be there, thought he was outstanding in the club championship this year.

I'm a bit confused on the supposedly new laws governing the age groups?? So essentially if you are a minor or U17 you cannot play county U21 but you are allowed to play club U21?? Is that correct? Did I read somewhere too that you cannot play adult club if you are U17?? I hope not because it would seriously hamper small rural clubs..

HatchetMan7

Club level U21 - Over 16
Adult Club level - Over 17
Intercounty level U21 - Over 18
Adult intercounty level - Over 18

As far as i can interpret that's correct as of Jan 2016 but im open to correction on that. If this is the case the smaller clubs will certainly be affected.

danganabu

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Not something I totally agree with to be honest. Remember that Kildare hurler who transferred down to Tipp u21s a couple years back? He was supposed to be the next biggest thing. Havent heard much of him since. There are no guarantees.

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

You mean Conor Kenny? If so he transferred last year and was part of their championship match day panel wasn't he?

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Yea that’s him but It wasn’t last year it was about 3 yearsago now. I think he is Brendan Mahers cousinso there was family connections at least but it appears this Fagan lad hasabsolutely no Waterford connection whatsoever. Dosent live, work or study inthe county. If it’s because he hangs around with a couple of the Waterford ladsin college then I might transfer to Hong Kong

To be fair Conor Kenny's father won an AI with Borrisoleigh as did his uncle, he actually lives in Borris himself so it is in now way comparable........... and he's ****!

DiscoStew

Waternut wrote: »

Should be interesting to see how Fagan goes, the step up to top class county hurling is massive, even from Colleges level. He could be worth a look.

Does anyone have an update on any new names on the panel. I wouldn't have been one of his bigger fans in the past but I think Brian O'Sullivan should be there, thought he was outstanding in the club championship this year.

I'm a bit confused on the supposedly new laws governing the age groups?? So essentially if you are a minor or U17 you cannot play county U21 but you are allowed to play club U21?? Is that correct? Did I read somewhere too that you cannot play adult club if you are U17?? I hope not because it would seriously hamper small rural clubs..

Brian and David were both approached about joining the panel this year I believe but declined the invitation.

tomwaterford

DiscoStew wrote: »

Brian and David were both approached about joining the panel this year I believe but declined the invitation.

Will they be approached again for the year ahead??
(Or is that what you meant...sorry if it is)

DiscoStew

tomwaterford wrote: »

Will they be approached again for the year ahead??
(Or is that what you meant...sorry if it is)

That's what I meant. Were approached after Munster club campaign ended I believe.

Waternut

DiscoStew wrote: »

That's what I meant. Were approached after Munster club campaign ended I believe.

A pity cos both were probably two of the best in the championship this year.

DiscoStew

Waternut wrote: »

A pity cos both were probably two of the best in the championship this year.

They were. Was particularly impressed by David, although Brian stepped up well with the loss of Paudie.
David I feel would add more to the county set up of the 2, he can play a number of positions very well. Think he would suit the style Waterford are playing very well also.

Brian I am less sure about when it comes to intercounty. He's given it a go, hasn't really happened for him. Personally I feel we can be better served with the younger options like Patrick Curran and Shane Bennett being given bigger roles next year. He would probably be worth a place on the panel alright but I'm sure that's not too appealing when the chance of meaningful game time isn't really there.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Anyone retire or 'let go' from the senior hurling panel? I'm sure the provisional panel for 2016 has been named?

DiscoStew

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Anyone retire or 'let go' from the senior hurling panel? I'm sure the provisional panel for 2016 has been named?

No retirements so far don't think.
Lot of additions, but how many will make the cut come the league is hard to say. The likes of Paddy Cooke, Harley Barnes, Kieran Bennett, Thomas Ryan, Jordan Henley, Ross Dunford (think that's his name - plays with Colligan) have all been training.
In fairness the management are having a look at plenty players! Of the ones mentioned, and there could be more even, I would say Thomas Ryan probably has the best chance of making it at this stage. Cooke might get in as third choice keeper perhaps.
Anyone heard of anyone others training with the panel currently?

robopaddy2

DiscoStew wrote: »

No retirements so far don't think.
Lot of additions, but how many will make the cut come the league is hard to say. The likes of Paddy Cooke, Harley Barnes, Kieran Bennett, Thomas Ryan, Jordan Henley, Ross Dunford (think that's his name - plays with Colligan) have all been training.
In fairness the management are having a look at plenty players! Of the ones mentioned, and there could be more even, I would say Thomas Ryan probably has the best chance of making it at this stage. Cooke might get in as third choice keeper perhaps.
Anyone heard of anyone others training with the panel currently?

I think Kieran Bennett could step up. A different type of player to his 2 younger brothers but a real teak-tough defender and could eventually mould into fullback. I heard Steven Daniels was stepping away from it for a while. Any truth in this

DiscoStew

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I think Kieran Bennett could step up. A different type of player to his 2 younger brothers but a real teak-tough defender and could eventually mould into fullback. I heard Steven Daniels was stepping away from it for a while. Any truth in this

Daniels stepping away was mentioned on here previously but i honestly can't say as haven't heard a thing about that. Would be disappointing after seeing him make it back last year but I'm sure he has his reasons if there is any truth to it. In truth we aren't too short of options at the back either.

Kieran Bennett could possibly make it. I just don't see him making much of a break through this year in any meaningful way. Good to have these types of lads involved in the panel however I think.

PTH2009

There's no Waterford crystal cup in 2016 instead there is a round robin league between all the Munster county's except Tipperary

We start on the 10 Jan 2016 vs Limerick at wit.

13 Jan- vs cork in mallow 7.30
17 Jan- vs Clare in wit 2.00pm
24 Jan - vs Kerry at Fitzgerald stadium

Nhl starts 14 Feb vs Kilkenny in wash park

Jjjjjjjbarry

DiscoStew wrote: »

No retirements so far don't think.
Lot of additions, but how many will make the cut come the league is hard to say. The likes of Paddy Cooke, Harley Barnes, Kieran Bennett, Thomas Ryan, Jordan Henley, Ross Dunford (think that's his name - plays with Colligan) have all been training.
In fairness the management are having a look at plenty players! Of the ones mentioned, and there could be more even, I would say Thomas Ryan probably has the best chance of making it at this stage. Cooke might get in as third choice keeper perhaps.
Anyone heard of anyone others training with the panel currently?

Tommy Ryan who was on the senior panel before?
It would be good to add some more young talent to the team indeed.

DiscoStew

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Tommy Ryan who was on the senior panel before?
It would be good to add some more young talent to the team indeed.

Indeed he was. Do you not think he could have an impact? Or indeed be worth a place on the panel? Could see him being an option in a role similar to Colin Dunford possibly.

HatchetMan7

DiscoStew wrote: »

Indeed he was. Do you not think he could have an impact? Or indeed be worth a place on the panel? Could see him being an option in a role similar to Colin Dunford possibly.

With the amount of pace Tommy Ryan has, if he's used in the right way he could certainly cause defences a lot of problems. I think there's plenty to look forward to with Pauric Mahoney coming back in, Austin Gleason being a permanent fixture in the forward line hopefully and Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran having bigger roles to play in 2016.

DiscoStew

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

With the amount of pace Tommy Ryan has, if he's used in the right way he could certainly cause defences a lot of problems. I think there's plenty to look forward to with Pauric Mahoney coming back in, Austin Gleason being a permanent fixture in the forward line hopefully and Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran having bigger roles to play in 2016.

Not sure how much of a role Pauric will be able to play this year. Wouldn't rush it and set him back, better to take it slow which could mean sitting out all of league. Hard to imagine him being at full tilt then for championship.

HatchetMan7

DiscoStew wrote: »

Not sure how much of a role Pauric will be able to play this year. Wouldn't rush it and set him back, better to take it slow which could mean sitting out all of league. Hard to imagine him being at full tilt then for championship.

Ya that's a fair point probably more likely too see him come off the bench at least for the early part of the championship.

hardybuck

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

With the amount of pace Tommy Ryan has, if he's used in the right way he could certainly cause defences a lot of problems. I think there's plenty to look forward to with Pauric Mahoney coming back in, Austin Gleason being a permanent fixture in the forward line hopefully and Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran having bigger roles to play in 2016.

The game has gone much more physical in the last couple of years even. Winning possession was his biggest obstacle, so unless he's totally changed body shape then he'll struggle.

HatchetMan7

hardybuck wrote: »

The game has gone much more physical in the last couple of years even. Winning possession was his biggest obstacle, so unless he's totally changed body shape then he'll struggle.

He would certainly struggle under high ball but if his movement is good and the ball in is quick and low then his pace should be enough plus him running onto breaking ball like Colin Dunford did during the year then he could be effective. I personally don't think a small quick forward is redundant in the modern game. Maybe he'll struggle maybe he won't but after the year he's had he should be looked at again.

hardybuck

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

He would certainly struggle under high ball but if his movement is good and the ball in is quick and low then his pace should be enough plus him running onto breaking ball like Colin Dunford did during the year then he could be effective. I personally don't think a small quick forward is redundant in the modern game. Maybe he'll struggle maybe he won't but after the year he's had he should be looked at again.

The problem Waterford had in the two games against Tipp and KK was a lack of physical conditioning, amongst other things. You could see the difference between sides that had a few years of conditioning under their belt and what was a young side in the early stages of their development.

What you had in those games was Waterford forwards trying to win dirty ball, isolated, delivered by backs under pressure.

I can remember sitting with a birds eye view of Ryan in what I think was his last big game in the quarter final v Cork in Thurles in 2012. He got plenty of low ball in front of him but Shane O'Neill just gobbled him up completely.

People here are very fond of looking at KK, and have you ever seen a KK forward who wasn't able to win his own possession and withstand physical pressure?

HatchetMan7

hardybuck wrote: »

The problem Waterford had in the two games against Tipp and KK was a lack of physical conditioning, amongst other things. You could see the difference between sides that had a few years of conditioning under their belt and what was a young side in the early stages of their development.

What you had in those games was Waterford forwards trying to win dirty ball, isolated, delivered by backs under pressure.

I can remember sitting with a birds eye view of Ryan in what I think was his last big game in the quarter final v Cork in Thurles in 2012. He got plenty of low ball in front of him but Shane O'Neill just gobbled him up completely.

People here are very fond of looking at KK, and have you ever seen a KK forward who wasn't able to win his own possession and withstand physical pressure?

I can't disagree with anything you've said the only thing i'll say is that it would be a mistake for Waterford to try to be like Kilkenny. We just don't have those type of players. We have players like Patrick Curran, Colin Dunford, Stephan and Shane Bennett, small skillful forwards. We need to play the type of game that suits these kinds of players. Sure we have forwards that can win there own ball Maurice Shanahan, Austin Gleeson and Pauric Mahoney. But even these players aren't as strong in the air as some of the Kilkenny forwards.
Derek McGrath needs to find a style that suits the type of players at his disposal. Tipp showed the way when they won the All Ireland in 2010. To win the All Ireland Waterford need to create goal chances by moving the ball quick with overlaps and short passing. In fairness the Derek McGrath alot of our goals this year were created in this way so i believe we're on the right track we just need to be more offensive than we were in 2015.

robopaddy2

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

I can't disagree with anything you've said the only thing i'll say is that it would be a mistake for Waterford to try to be like Kilkenny. We just don't have those type of players. We have players like Patrick Curran, Colin Dunford, Stephan and Shane Bennett, small skillful forwards. We need to play the type of game that suits these kinds of players. Sure we have forwards that can win there own ball Maurice Shanahan, Austin Gleeson and Pauric Mahoney. But even these players aren't as strong in the air as some of the Kilkenny forwards.
Derek McGrath needs to find a style that suits the type of players at his disposal. Tipp showed the way when they won the All Ireland in 2010. To win the All Ireland Waterford need to create goal chances by moving the ball quick with overlaps and short passing. In fairness the Derek McGrath alot of our goals this year were created in this way so i believe we're on the right track we just need to be more offensive than we were in 2015.

This exactly. How many times over the years have we heard this theory you need to play KK at their own game to beat them? yet rarely if ever have we seen it happen. The team that comes up with a superior system and gameplan, and enough quality players to outhurl them are the team that can beat them. Tipp in 2010 being the rare example. I'm not saying the system we employ at the moment is the one but thinking that you need 6 ball winning forwards isn't the magic solution either.

ovalu

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

I . We have players like Patrick Curran, Colin Dunford, Stephan and Shane Bennett, small skillful forwards. .

Stephen Bennett is surely 6ft and must be about 14 stone,

HatchetMan7

ovalu wrote: »

Stephen Bennett is surely 6ft and must be about 14 stone,

Fair enough, my point really, is that we are lacking forwards who are strong in the air. You don't see Stephan Bennett catch too many high balls although to be fair to him he is one of the best players i've seen to control a high ball with the hurl. Hopefully he can come back from the surgery well and be able to train with the panel close to 100%. He could be the goal poacher we need if we ever go back to playing 3 in the full forward line.

Deise_2012

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Fair enough, my point really, is that we are lacking forwards who are strong in the air. You don't see Stephan Bennett catch too many high balls although to be fair to him he is one of the best players i've seen to control a high ball with the hurl. Hopefully he can come back from the surgery well and be able to train with the panel close to 100%. He could be the goal poacher we need if we ever go back to playing 3 in the full forward line.

What's the story with him? How long is he out for? Anyone have any news about the other lads? Is Darragh Fives alright for pre season? What about Steven Daniels? Did they try and get David O'Sullivan to play this year? I presume they have Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran there for the start of pre season

DiscoStew

Deise_2012 wrote: »

What's the story with him? How long is he out for? Anyone have any news about the other lads? Is Darragh Fives alright for pre season? What about Steven Daniels? Did they try and get David O'Sullivan to play this year? I presume they have Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran there for the start of pre season

David O'Sullivan as was mentioned a few pages back was asked and wasn't interested. Daniels some are saying isn't going back this year. Presume Patrick and Shane are with the squad for pre season although there was some talk a while back here to the contrary. No word on Darragh Fives so presume he is training away.
Stephen Bennett had double hip surgery again I think, although it was a lesser operation this time. Think I remember Dan saying they were going to take his recovery slowly due to previous problems and the seriousness of the situation. How long that will mean he is out for I don't know.

tomwaterford

DiscoStew wrote: »

David O'Sullivan as was mentioned a few pages back was asked and wasn't interested. Daniels some are saying isn't going back this year. Presume Patrick and Shane are with the squad for pre season although there was some talk a while back here to the contrary. No word on Darragh Fives so presume he is training away.
Stephen Bennett had double hip surgery again I think, although it was a lesser operation this time. Think I remember Dan saying they were going to take his recovery slowly due to previous problems and the seriousness of the situation. How long that will mean he is out for I don't know.

With Stephen Bennett let it take as long as necessary as health is more important....also it should be well worth the wait

One thing is sure exciting times ahead


Hopefully they can avoid relegation first and foremost...Though the 10th of jan will soon come around

DiscoStew

tomwaterford wrote: »

With Stephen Bennett let it take as long as necessary as health is more important....also it should be well worth the wait

I would 100% agree with this. He surely won't be fit for FitzGibbon hurling so hopefully after avoiding that and with care with the recovery we might see him come good later in the year. If can get through munster there is probably a chance of getting Paudie Mahony involved and maybe a fit Stephen Bennett also. Add them to the likes of Maurice, Patrick Curran, Shane Bennett, Colin Dunford etc and we could be more dangerous than last year. Curran could be a huge addition, I would say he has the potential to have a similar impact to Bubbles O'Dwyer, but only if utilised right.
I think we did very well in avoiding a lot of injuries last year also, especially given the amount of games we played. If we can do similar this year, while intensifying the pre season training, we will be doing well.
Any more talk of the Fagan lad? Has that transfer been confirmed?

3ships

fm tomasmac twitter

drew with UCC yesterday

team

ORegan McNulty Bennett Brown Barnes Prendergast Henley Bennett Kearney Waring Molumby Keating Ryan Roche OHalloran