Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Deise_2012

willietherock wrote: »

Austin Gleeson sent off for WIT today in the Fitz

Definitely targeted by Davy

willietherock

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Definitely targeted by Davy

Probably right. It was off the ball. The lad has a v short fuse.

MUFC91CS

He'll continue to be targeted by every opposing manager if he keeps lashing out

DiscoStew

willietherock wrote: »

Probably right. It was off the ball. The lad has a v short fuse.

He has gotten a few reds for a young lad but I think that's more down to the treatment he gets.

robopaddy2

Its the flaw in the genius I guess. Some of our most talented players in the past had temperament issues; Mullane and Kelly spring to mind. Guys who can lose you a game as easily as they can win one for you. Its been to our detriment over the years. I believe Gleeson is a genuine lad whose heart is in the right place but also needs a serious kick in the a***e in my opinion. A lot of flaws in his game need to be knocked.
Derek McGrath has a big role to play here. We know hes a great one for blowing smoke up younglads arses no wonder they all love him, but he needs to know when to pull lads down a peg or 2 aswell. Any manager worth his salt will have a great knack for doing that. Our problem over the years is that we didn't have strong enough managers to deal with the ego's in the dressing room.

cul beag

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Its the flaw in the genius I guess. Some of our most talented players in the past had temperament issues; Mullane and Kelly spring to mind. Guys who can lose you a game as easily as they can win one for you. Its been to our detriment over the years. I believe Gleeson is a genuine lad whose heart is in the right place but also needs a serious kick in the a***e in my opinion. A lot of flaws in his game need to be knocked.
Derek McGrath has a big role to play here. We know hes a great one for blowing smoke up younglads arses no wonder they all love him, but he needs to know when to pull lads down a peg or 2 aswell. Any manager worth his salt will have a great knack for doing that. Our problem over the years is that we didn't have strong enough managers to deal with the ego's in the dressing room.

Well said. The fact that Gleeson was made MOM on Sunday last only adds to the problem where he'll feel he can go on those solo runs with no end product along with shooting aimlessly for scores instead of keeping to the possession game plan. The ironic laughs from the crowd when it was announced last Sunday said alot. Again I am not doubting his natural ability and he is a joy to watch at times but McGrath needs to curb that enthusiasm and make him more team orientated. On his sending off for WIT have no doubt he was targeted by Davy as he would have had inside info from his assistant up there.

mountgomery burns

When did John Mullane ever lose Waterford a game? There's one man now who seems to have had his achievements completely forgotten since he retired. The stick he gets on here at times is just unbeleievable.

He was Mr Waterford, and would have done anything for the team.

carter10

mountgomery burns wrote: »

When did John Mullane ever lose Waterford a game? There's one man now who seems to have had his achievements completely forgotten since he retired. The stick he gets on here at times is just unbeleievable.

He was Mr Waterford, and would have done anything for the team.

Well said and the crap being written here about Austin Gleeson is unbelievable. Brick hasn't pucked a ball in 3 or more matches and theres not a word about it and a young lad learning his trade is constantly derided. Unreal.

Waternut

I've a feeling Brick may struggle this year.

blue note

carter10 wrote: »

Well said and the crap being written here about Austin Gleeson is unbelievable. Brick hasn't pucked a ball in 3 or more matches and theres not a word about it and a young lad learning his trade is constantly derided. Unreal.

People are being overly harsh on aussie and I was about to thank your post when I started to read it, but then you defend him by having a completely unnecessary cut off one of our other players. I know players aren't immune from criticism, but do we really need to attack our own players as we do?

carter10

blue note wrote: »

People are being overly harsh on aussie and I was about to thank your post when I started to read it, but then you defend him by having a completely unnecessary cut off one of our other players. I know players aren't immune from criticism, but do we really need to attack our own players as we do?

It wasn't a swipe it was a comparison and I do think some of our players are 'immune from criticism' and Brick is a prime example thats why I mentioned him.
The point I was making was that constantly focusing on aspects of one players game while ignoring other players weaknesses is unfair. I used brick as an example.

cul beag

carter10 wrote: »

It wasn't a swipe it was a comparison and I do think some of our players are 'immune from criticism' and Brick is a prime example thats why I mentioned him.
The point I was making was that constantly focusing on aspects of one players game while ignoring other players weaknesses is unfair. I used brick as an example.

There's constructive criticism and there's personal attacks. There is a difference. The posts highlighting aussie's frustrating tendencies are just that. Nothing more.

3ships

Dunford was also sent off in the Fitz. A lot being asked of these 2 lads, a lot of games (4 in 9/10 days) and a lot of running in difficult conditions.. You think ye'd get an aul break after giving that much effort to beat the cats.. Anyway they should be well rested for Sat night down in Cork ...........

Thought all the players contributed to the win last Sunday. Brick won the free to make it 13 and the puck out to make it 14 at the end without that simple contribution Kilkenny wouldn't have needed to go for goals with their last 2 attacks.

robopaddy2

carter10 wrote: »

Well said and the crap being written here about Austin Gleeson is unbelievable. Brick hasn't pucked a ball in 3 or more matches and theres not a word about it and a young lad learning his trade is constantly derided. Unreal.

Its not crap, its called a few home truths. You can bury your head in the sand and wait for him to 'learn his trade' well the problem is he doesn't seem to be learning, in fact the obvious flaws in his game at minor level seem to be after getting worse with age if anything. I never said he wasn't incredibly talented and an all-round good younglad. My opinion is that sky is the limit for this lad once he gets he knuckles down and plays for the team, that's what frustrates me so much.

JesusRef

It's unreal you could have a fairly lengthy highlights and low lights reel of Austin - all from the same game!
Whatever Dereks approach is to sorting out the kinks is clearly not working so far!

I can't think of one Kilkenny player under Cody who had that kind of stupidity in his play - don't tell me they don't have them players down there, they just don't get near the team or at least not until they cop on to themselves so the public at large never sees the flaws.

Fred C Dobbs

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Its not crap, its called a few home truths. You can bury your head in the sand and wait for him to 'learn his trade' well the problem is he doesn't seem to be learning, in fact the obvious flaws in his game at minor level seem to be after getting worse with age if anything. I never said he wasn't incredibly talented and an all-round good younglad. My opinion is that sky is the limit for this lad once he gets he knuckles down and plays for the team, that's what frustrates me so much.

Most geniuses have a flaw, e.g Elvis, Ronnie O'Sullivan,Van Gogh (for those critics, the latter individual was some form of artist, apparently). Aussie, F**k those small minded, ignoramuses.

cul beag

Fred C Dobbs wrote: »

Most geniuses have a flaw, e.g Elvis, Ronnie O'Sullivan,Van Gogh (for those critics, the latter individual was some form of artist, apparently). Aussie, F**k those small minded, ignoramuses.

That's the best you can come up with? How about a constructive discussion instead of bar stool dribble. I pity the locals that had to listen to you..........A couple of paracetamol, sleep it off and you should be fine.

Fred C Dobbs

cul beag wrote: »

That's the best you can come up with? How about a constructive discussion instead of bar stool dribble. I pity the locals that had to listen to you..........A couple of paracetamol, sleep it off and you should be fine.

Sorry Doctor .......... ?

I've been at all major Waterford matches over many years (including last years league final when Gleeson scored a wonder point from halfway/sideline) Maybe you missed it, like the Cork lads on the pitch. Remind me, was that just before or after he landed a sideline from more or less the same position.

Deskjockey

mountgomery burns wrote: »

When did John Mullane ever lose Waterford a game? There's one man now who seems to have had his achievements completely forgotten since he retired. The stick he gets on here at times is just unbeleievable.

He was Mr Waterford, and would have done anything for the team.

He is alluding to the 2004 semi final that we lost because Mullane was unavailable due to suspension. Harsh.

On the Ball Boy

Just 2 points about Austin Gleeson lads, his discipline or lack of it is not an issue for Derek Mcgrath because most of his sendings off have happened while he was playing for Mount Sion and on this occasion WIT, these sendigs off don't effect his county duties and until it becomes a problem for Derek and Waterford then Derek wont be too bothered about them, I've also been told that Derek actively encourages him to go for the long range efforts and has said to Austin , if you feel the shot is on then take it and has never criticised him for the wides, so as a 19 or 20 yr old lad, he's going to keep shooting, that's what you get with Austin, that's the way he plays it, I for one am glad he's one of ours

I'm not criticising Derek's management style, just saying this is Inter county management and their only concerns this week would have been injury concerns, anything else is not their issue.

HatchetMan7

I think constructive criticism is ok once you don't forget that these are amateur players who give a huge amount of hard work and their free time to the cause. Any criticism of Austin Gleeson on here is only because we all want to see him reach his full potential for himself and for the team because IMO he has the potential to go down as one of the greats of the game.
Good luck to Waterford on Saturday

cul beag

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

I think constructive criticism is ok once you don't forget that these are amateur players who give a huge amount of hard work and their free time to the cause. Any criticism of Austin Gleeson on here is only because we all want to see him reach his full potential for himself and for the team because IMO he has the potential to go down as one of the greats of the game.
Good luck to Waterford on Saturday

At last someone with common sense on this discussion.

robopaddy2

Deskjockey wrote: »

He is alluding to the 2004 semi final that we lost because Mullane was unavailable due to suspension. Harsh.

Could have done with him all the same.

Twiceasnice97

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Definitely targeted by Davy

thats total nonsense. i have no love for Fitzgerald but gleeson requires no provoking to get involved in this stuff
Gleeson is a majestic player but he has a wild streak in him. from the very first match he played at senior championship level he was in opponents faces giving it socks on the verbals.

you can spin it anyway you want but he is a loose cannon.
As i said a majestic hurler who could be waterfords greatest ever centreback if he chooses to go down the right path or he can spend the next five years alternating between sheer brilliance and total lunacy as a wing forward or something minor like that.
the choice is entirely his and it is no ones fault but his own that he gets sent off.

Twiceasnice97

Fred C Dobbs wrote: »

Sorry Doctor .......... ?

I've been at all major Waterford matches over many years (including last years league final when Gleeson scored a wonder point from halfway/sideline) Maybe you missed it, like the Cork lads on the pitch. Remind me, was that just before or after he landed a sideline from more or less the same position.

that is code for `i don`t bother with the league ` is it?

no one said gleeson wasnt a good hurler. they just want him to not get sent off

Twiceasnice97

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Could have done with him all the same.

in the form he was in he would have been the difference for waterford. kilkenny were dead on their feet after the two clare games and just needed to be pushed over the cliff

JesusRef

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

thats total nonsense. i have no love for Fitzgerald but gleeson requires no provoking to get involved in this stuff
Gleeson is a majestic player but he has a wild streak in him. from the very first match he played at senior championship level he was in opponents faces giving it socks on the verbals.

you can spin it anyway you want but he is a loose cannon.
As i said a majestic hurler who could be waterfords greatest ever centreback if he chooses to go down the right path or he can spend the next five years alternating between sheer brilliance and total lunacy as a wing forward or something minor like that.
the choice is entirely his and it is no ones fault but his own that he gets sent off.

He is a loose canon - hopefully he won't turn into another kelly

deiseach

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

lAs i said a majestic hurler who could be waterfords greatest ever centreback if he chooses to go down the right path or he can spend the next five years alternating between sheer brilliance and total lunacy as a wing forward or something minor like that.
the choice is entirely his and it is no ones fault but his own that he gets sent off.

Better than John Keane? Talk about setting someone up for a fall. If he's as good as Eoin Kelly I'll be happy.

mountgomery burns

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

thats total nonsense. i have no love for Fitzgerald but gleeson requires no provoking to get involved in this stuff
Gleeson is a majestic player but he has a wild streak in him. from the very first match he played at senior championship level he was in opponents faces giving it socks on the verbals.

you can spin it anyway you want but he is a loose cannon.
As i said a majestic hurler who could be waterfords greatest ever centreback if he chooses to go down the right path or he can spend the next five years alternating between sheer brilliance and total lunacy as a wing forward or something minor like that.
the choice is entirely his and it is no ones fault but his own that he gets sent off.

His future with Waterford is up front. And he's shown he has the talent to stamp his authority on games up there.

seananigans

1. Stephen O'Keeffe (Ballygunner)
2. Shane Fives (Tourin)
3. Barry Coughlan (Ballygunner)
4. Noel Connors (Passage)
5. Austin Gleeson (Mount Sion)
6. Darragh Fives (Tourin)
7. Philip Mahony (Ballygunner)
8. Jamie Barron (Fourmilewater)
21. Maurice Shanahan (Lismore)
10. Kevin Moran (De La Salle) - Captain
11. Shane Bennett (Ballysaggart)
12. Michael Walsh (Stradbally)
13. Patrick Curran (Dungarvan)
14. Jake Dillon (De La Salle)
15. Colin Dunford (Colligan)

Cake Man

No surprises really to see the same team named, think the same 15 deserve the start again. With Fitzgibbon games on during the week, the likes of Aussie and Dunford may not last the full game so we might see BOH and McNulty et al see action again.

seananigans

Cake Man wrote: »

No surprises really to see the same team named, think the same 15 deserve the start again. With Fitzgibbon games on during the week, the likes of Aussie and Dunford may not last the full game so we might see BOH and McNulty et al see action again.

bit selfish but seeing as aussie out of fitzgibbon, we can expect after tommorow to have him starting.

hard to call cork, on one hand cork at home is always tough, on other had we are playing a depleted cork who had few stars to begin with, based on the lineup looks like we are taking them seriously bar no major surprises should be out day

thesultan

We seem to be nearly starting our first 15 for championship, bar De burca

mountgomery burns

thesultan wrote: »

We seem to be nearly starting our first 15 for championship, bar De burca

If they win tomorrow they have 4 games to do whatever they want then with no threat of relegation.

Deise_2012

thesultan wrote: »

We seem to be nearly starting our first 15 for championship, bar De burca

Paudie Mahony

HatchetMan7

I know it won't happen but i wouldn't mind seeing us go 3 in the full forward line as the Cork corner backs were fairly poor last week.
Hopefully we an create and take a few goal chances as we need to become more clinical. I think Cork have named a more hard working team and less flashy than last week which is no surprise.

Cake Man

thesultan wrote: »

We seem to be nearly starting our first 15 for championship, bar De burca

Yeah apart from De Burca and Paudie Mahony, that's effectively our championship team. It's a tough call to decide what two players you'd drop to accomodate the two lads if both were fit tomorrow morning. I think some would argue TdeB and PM would be two of our best players so they'd surely have to slot in somewhere. (For Paudies unerring free taking alone that's nearly justification alone for his inclusion).

Possibly push Aussie to the forwards, Darragh Fives to wing back and Tadgh back to CB. In that case you'd probably be looking at two of Jake, Shane Bennett or Patrick Curran to make way to accomodate Paudie and Tadgh. Very tough decisions to be made by McGrath especially if the likes of Curran and Dillon are doing well but not a bad headache to have, as they say.

Cork don't look hugely strong but I wouldn't be taking them for granted. Start like we did v Kk and tidy up the shooting and we will hopefully have too much for them.

Does anyone know if the game is shown live and if so on which channel?

cul beag

Cake Man wrote: »

Yeah apart from De Burca and Paudie Mahony, that's effectively our championship team. It's a tough call to decide what two players you'd drop to accomodate the two lads if both were fit tomorrow morning. I think some would argue TdeB and PM would be two of our best players so they'd surely have to slot in somewhere. (For Paudies unerring free taking alone that's nearly justification alone for his inclusion).

Possibly push Aussie to the forwards, Darragh Fives to wing back and Tadgh back to CB. In that case you'd probably be looking at two of Jake, Shane Bennett or Patrick Curran to make way to accomodate Paudie and Tadgh. Very tough decisions to be made by McGrath especially if the likes of Curran and Dillon are doing well but not a bad headache to have, as they say.

Cork don't look hugely strong but I wouldn't be taking them for granted. Start like we did v Kk and tidy up the shooting and we will hopefully have too much for them.

Does anyone know if the game is shown live and if so on which channel?

Setanta sports are showing it tonight. Cork are not what they used to be but we have to expect a response from them after last week's performance so it will not be easy but I still think we'll have too much for them. We are a settled side and well drilled in our game plan and not too many teams out there have got to grips with it yet so barring catastrophe I can't see that Cork team handling it tonight. It is not a pretty site at times but its effective to a certain point so as long as we're winning matches with it we'll have no other choice but to put up with it. Sadly that is the way the game seems to be developing which is sad to see. Babs Keating's sheep in a heap comment wouldn't be too far wrong now!! Waterford by 6-7 points tonight.

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

Yeah apart from De Burca and Paudie Mahony, that's effectively our championship team. ?

Don't forget Stephen Bennett. A real pity he's been so crippled with injury, you'd have to have big concerns for his long term future in the game but lets not write him off either. Still under 21 this year. I really hope he can get his injury problems sorted out because he is a talent we can't afford to lose.

The Dickler

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

in the form he was in he would have been the difference for waterford. kilkenny were dead on their feet after the two clare games and just needed to be pushed over the cliff

TAN
What are your thoughts on your own management team?

Dream team or media circus?

The Dickler

No sign of that mad lad from Cork this week. The penny must have dropped...at last.

Deise189

Interesting to see that Maurice has changed his free taking style. No longer squats and takes a little run up before lifting the ball. Lads were out for a puc around and he knocked over all the frees straight over the black spot. Hopefully he can carry this into the game and the rest of the season.

KevIRL

Curran really should have goaled from that.

PTH2009

really need to sort out those wides. its going to cost us in a big game.

PTH2009

should be out of sight. that bennett wide should of been put over. Win today and we can experiment a bit for the rest of the games.

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

should be out of sight. that bennett wide should of been put over. Win today and we can experiment a bit for the rest of the games.

Just on this. 4 points isn't usually enough to keep a team out of the bottom 2 in 1A. Since 2012, 6 of the 8 teams that finished in the bottom 2 have had 4 points. Including Waterford in 2014!

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

should be out of sight. that bennett wide should of been put over. Win today and we can experiment a bit for the rest of the games.

KevIRL wrote: »

Just on this. 4 points isn't usually enough to keep a team out of the bottom 2 in 1A. Since 2012, 6 of the 8 teams that finished in the bottom 2 have had 4 points. Including Waterford in 2014!

no disrespect to dublin , but we have them at home, if we're struggling can spring the bench but should be able to put them away

KevIRL

seananigans wrote: »

no disrespect to dublin , but we have them at home, if we're struggling can spring the bench but should be able to put them away

Big win for them tonight though.

PTH2009

Jayus someone was looking over us. Good save by sok. Lucky

KevIRL

Good win, players unsurprisingly tired toward the last 15 mins. Lot of v smart options been taken in the first 50 mins was great to see. Crazy scrappy toward the end, don't like seeing players making a meal of tackles but its been done against our lads many times.

4 points. 2 home games still to come and a break as well.