Football Crisis - What's to be done?

Tom Joad · 01-04-2015 10:20am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well people were saying that basically every football team is gone so defensive now because they simply cannot match Dublin. So if Dublin is the common denominator then obviously there is an issue around the strength of Dublin compared to all the other teams.

Without putting too fine a point on it that is nonsense.

Do you really think that teams like Cavan, Kildare, Down, Fermanagh and Westmeath(all teams I have seen in the flesh this year who have employed an "ultra defensive" set-up are really sitting down at the start of the year and devising a game plan based on a defensive system because Dublin are too strong?

It's absolutely nothing to do with Dublin.

UnitedIrishman · 01-04-2015 11:03am

Few things:

The game doesn't need to change at all. The issue lies with those playing against the blanket defence and not those employing it. Find a way to beat it - even if that means doing the same. There are always going to be dour games especially at this time of the year but guess what - the two sides playing the most dour styles are likely to be relegated so what benefit has it been to them? Eventually their own fans will vote with their feet or with their voice and something will change. Or their coaches will realise what they are doing is not beneficial to their own team.

The media is so kneejerky its pathetic and I don't understand why anyone decided to listen to such 'visionaries' as Joe Brolly and co. I remember going to games in the mid-90's when Mayo were playing sides and we won 0-8 0-6, 0-10 0-4, 0-7 0-6, 0-9 0-7 in consecutive games. And yet there were no clamours for a radical change in the game. In fact Brolly and co would have you believe these were glory days of GAA - I wasn't old enough to see or remember the so called 'great matches between Meath and Dublin' but watched one of them on TG4 recently and it was absolutely muck. If watching Bernard Flynn taking 10 mins to kick free after free and assaults around the field are your thing then fair enough.

Also I don't remember any media clamouring for change when Donegal faced Tyrone or Mayo faced Tyrone or Derry. Suddenly it becomes a problem when Derry don't (as one writer called it) bend over and lube themselves up for Dublin to have their way with them. As far as I'm concerned any manager that sends his team into a gunfight with that Dublin side matching up man for man is signing his own death warrant. They have exceptional forwards all over including the bench and good attacking backs that I don't think any side in the country could match up to. If anything, if we reached the final this year against Dublin with a gameplan of matching them man for man I'd be calling Connelly and Holmes naive - not saying 'oh well fair play for playing the right way'. No All Ireland has an asteriks beside it saying 'Let it be known the runners up played in the right spirit'.

Another aspect that annoys me, again this relates to the media, where was the objections last year when Kerry played the same way? For almost the entirety of the season they played a cynical blanket defensive brand of football but seemingly are absolved of any criticism. Apparently you must be from one of those northern counties to receive the same scrutiny.

And lastly, everyone calling for the game to change.. how exactly are you planning to do that when our refs can't even get basic decisions right? One or two mentions - not on here - of forcing sides to have 2-3 players in the opposite half. Your gonna need about 2 or 3 more officials per game and there at club games I'm at there aren't even linesman.

In summary, the game will come good in the summer and if not then I'm still not going to worry. Everyone thought it was the end of the world when Tyrone started playing the way they did winning their first All Ireland.

HighKing33 · 01-04-2015 11:36am

15-a-side is just too much, no-one foresaw the modern game with it's emphasis on running the ball and the increased emphasis that would make. We shouldn't hamstring coaches, some teams will always be defensive and you can't make tactics illegal. 13-a-side however, would create more space between the lines and reward teams that kick the ball, coaches across the country would have to react to this in order to be successfull with more emphasis being placed on kicking in training.

castletownman · 01-04-2015 2:12pm

A few weeks ago Colm Parkinson made the assertion on Off the Ball that the blanket defence is such an easy tactic to adopt that he could get fifteen professional soccer or rugby players. have them train in the tactics for a short period of time, and they will be able to limit an inter-county team to very few scores.

He fails to bring into the equation the need of having top forwards to capitilise on being miserly in your set-up in order to be consistent and successful

A quick look at the teams that were pandered for their "ultra-defensive" method ("puke football"), namely Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh, bring up such attacking talents as Murphy, McFadden, O'Neill, Canavan, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan, McConville, Clarke, Marsden and McDonnell.

If anything, being able to strike up a balance between shutting out your opponents and carrying enough fire-power up front to be able to out-score them regardless, and being able to make the quick transition from turn-over to score at the other end (with Donegal '12 the ultimate example recently) is a harder trick to master than the "traditional" way so favoured by pundits and media alike.

There's not a thing wrong with the game. Derry just need a couple of top forwards for it to be more successful.

davegrohl48 · 01-04-2015 2:29pm

In relation to comments such as:
"See how the season pans out"
"Always be a handful of dour games"
I'v watched the live games and highlights of each weekend of the entire league so far. The enjoyable games have been in the minority. So the seasons of league and championship football since 2011 are panning out to have dour defensive football in the majority. Thats almost five full seasons.
How long shall we wait? Seven seasons?
When an entire tranche of teams are either playing the blanket or struggling to beat the blanket don't you think it is time for change?
Five seasons and no one has found a way yet which has caused football to move towards a more open approach.
Chiming in from the sidelines with advice such as "move the ball quick", "switch wings" "diagonal balls".
Ye honestly think the best coaches in the country who have studied the game to the nth degree are somehow missing out on these pearls of wisdom on how to beat the blanket?
Another thing, the fall off in interest will not be gradual. If people start to lose interest it will be at pretty damaging levels of fall off in tv viewing and match attendance.
Finally the club players in some counties, how enjoyable is it to turn up three times a week to train and play in defensive football?
Posession drills for instance will leave you black and blue from tackles. This is the drill where one side has to retain the ball in a small square. Horrible, horrible stuff to have to train. Seen another drill with a 2 metre wide channel and having to barge your way past a defender. Who will keep turning up to train in that kind of stuff?

elefant · 01-04-2015 2:45pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Posession drills for instance will leave you black and blue from tackles. This is the drill where one side has to retain the ball in a small square. Horrible, horrible stuff to have to train. Seen another drill with a 2 metre wide channel and having to barge your way past a defender. Who will keep turning up to train in that kind of stuff?

I've always enjoyed playing those possession games, and most teammates I've ever had have done so too. I don't see the issue with it.

iDave · 01-04-2015 2:55pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

In relation to comments such as:
"See how the season pans out"
"Always be a handful of dour games"
I'v watched the live games and highlights of each weekend of the entire league so far. The enjoyable games have been in the minority. So the seasons of league and championship football since 2011 are panning out to have dour defensive football in the majority. Thats almost five full seasons.
How long shall we wait? Seven seasons?

So what do we do then? Tinker with the rules further. Rules that wont be implemented properly like the black card. Complicate the sport further?
I'd love to see the mess trying to police a rule that limits the amount of players in one half of the pitch will be.

UnitedIrishman · 01-04-2015 2:55pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

In relation to comments such as:
"See how the season pans out"
"Always be a handful of dour games"
I'v watched the live games and highlights of each weekend of the entire league so far. The enjoyable games have been in the minority. So the seasons of league and championship football since 2011 are panning out to have dour defensive football in the majority. Thats almost five full seasons.
How long shall we wait? Seven seasons?
When an entire tranche of teams are either playing the blanket or struggling to beat the blanket don't you think it is time for change?
Five seasons and no one has found a way yet which has caused football to move towards a more open approach.
Chiming in from the sidelines with advice such as "move the ball quick", "switch wings" "diagonal balls".
Ye honestly think the best coaches in the country who have studied the game to the nth degree are somehow missing out on these pearls of wisdom on how to beat the blanket?
Another thing, the fall off in interest will not be gradual. If people start to lose interest it will be at pretty damaging levels of fall off in tv viewing and match attendance.
Finally the club players in some counties, how enjoyable is it to turn up three times a week to train and play in defensive football?
Posession drills for instance will leave you black and blue from tackles. This is the drill where one side has to retain the ball in a small square. Horrible, horrible stuff to have to train. Seen another drill with a 2 metre wide channel and having to barge your way past a defender. Who will keep turning up to train in that kind of stuff?

All complete and utter tripe. Considering the stats show the scoring rate has increased in that time period - but I'm not going to go into the stats of it all. Is every game meant to be a Superbowlesque game on live TV?

And those possession games are massively important and most players I play with enjoy them. Nothing worse than standing in a corner of a pitch waiting for ever getting the ball.

davegrohl48 · 01-04-2015 3:51pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

All complete and utter tripe. Considering the stats show the scoring rate has increased in that time period - but I'm not going to go into the stats of it all. Is every game meant to be a Superbowlesque game on live TV?

And those possession games are massively important and most players I play with enjoy them. Nothing worse than standing in a corner of a pitch waiting for ever getting the ball.

Okay I'll qualify posession drill with one point. Where the square being used is too small, I guess that's simply bad coaching. I'll admit in the larger square when you have space to move about it can be enjoyable.
Every game is not meant to be a super bowlesque match but peoples concerns is the visual appearance of play and common scorelines of 9 pts - 7 pts etc.

Jampip · 01-04-2015 4:08pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Another aspect that annoys me, again this relates to the media, where was the objections last year when Kerry played the same way? For almost the entirety of the season they played a cynical blanket defensive brand of football but seemingly are absolved of any criticism. Apparently you must be from one of those northern counties to receive the same scrutiny.

I made the same point earlier and was disagreed with. Of course Kerry play the beautiful game along with their blanket - stick the lanky fella in full forward and bomb the ball in. It's revolutionary stuff.

I think we, as a community in GAA, need to stop listening to self serving pundits like Spillane and Brolly. The only thing they are doing is laughing the whole way to the bank.

Brolly, for example, has thrown out "black death" comments about Cavan twice. Once in the week we were due to play Derry in a qualifier two years ago and again last season when we were playing them in U21s. Now I wonder why he chose those particular weeks?

davegrohl48 · 01-04-2015 4:26pm

Jampip wrote: »

I made the same point earlier and was disagreed with. Of course Kerry play the beautiful game along with their blanket - stick the lanky fella in full forward and bomb the ball in. It's revolutionary stuff.

I think we, as a community in GAA, need to stop listening to self serving pundits like Spillane and Brolly. The only thing they are doing is laughing the whole way to the bank.

Brolly, for example, has thrown out "black death" comments about Cavan twice. Once in the week we were due to play Derry in a qualifier two years ago and again last season when we were playing them in U21s. Now I wonder why he chose those particular weeks?

Is it not also Brolly who has called out the GPA for being silent on the Clare hurling saga?
Brolly who has been the loudest voice about the quality of football?
I commend him for raising the issues for them to be debated. The current president of the GAA thinks football is perfectly fine whereas Jarlath Burns agrees with Brolly.
There is a clear division of opinion as is perfectly natural. You can't just dismiss Brolly as a ranter.
Yes he was out of line to label only Cavan in the instance you bring up. He was also way out of line in relation to three high profile footballers over the years. But in relation to the quality of football many agree with him. I would say more than 50% agree.

Jampip · 01-04-2015 5:02pm

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Is it not also Brolly who has called out the GPA for being silent on the Clare hurling saga?
Brolly who has been the loudest voice about the quality of football?
I commend him for raising the issues for them to be debated. The current president of the GAA thinks football is perfectly fine whereas Jarlath Burns agrees with Brolly.
There is a clear division of opinion as is perfectly natural. You can't just dismiss Brolly as a ranter.
Yes he was out of line to label only Cavan in the instance you bring up. He was also way out of line in relation to three high profile footballers over the years. But in relation to the quality of football many agree with him. I would say more than 50% agree.

I don't think the quality of football has dipped that much. I just think the likes of Brolly and Spillane are looking back on the years they played with rose tinted glasses. They are also biased. Spillane fails to acknowledge that Kerry's football at times is far from the beautiful game.

The game has evolved and tactics have become hugely significant but surely that's change for the better?

Joe says the Derry lads were embarassed about the way they played last Saturday but were they not equally embarassed last year when Dublin beat them 3-19 to 1-10? A 15 point loss.

davegrohl48 · 01-04-2015 5:09pm

Jampip wrote: »

I don't think the quality of football has dipped that much. I just think the likes of Brolly and Spillane are looking back on the years they played with rose tinted glasses. They are also biased. Spillane fails to acknowledge that Kerry's football at times is far from the beautiful game.

The game has evolved and tactics have become hugely significant but surely that's change for the better?

Joe says the Derry lads were embarassed about the way they played last Saturday but were they not equally embarassed last year when Dublin beat them 3-19 to 1-10? A 15 point loss.

One thing that muddies the water is Spillanes opinion on skills declining. The players nowadays are as good if not better at all skills.

davegrohl48 · 01-04-2015 5:27pm

Jampip wrote: »

I don't think the quality of football has dipped that much. I just think the likes of Brolly and Spillane are looking back on the years they played with rose tinted glasses. They are also biased. Spillane fails to acknowledge that Kerry's football at times is far from the beautiful game.

The game has evolved and tactics have become hugely significant but surely that's change for the better?

Joe says the Derry lads were embarassed about the way they played last Saturday but were they not equally embarassed last year when Dublin beat them 3-19 to 1-10? A 15 point loss.

One thing that muddies the water is Spillanes opinion on skills declining. The players nowadays are as good if not better at all skills.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 01-04-2015 8:10pm

average_runner wrote: »

Direct football will always beat the defensive game.

It won't and in my opinion it plays right into the hands of the blanket defence.

Say a player gets the ball in the half back line and starts to move forward he's looking up and and sees his options and sees the 6 forwards are being marked by 12 defenders (most teams who play a blanket their players retreat into defence extremely quickly) this means that a long ball in near the full forward line is almost certainly going to favour the defence as one of the defenders just has to break the ball and the superior numbers will mop up possession.The only way a long ball would be successful is if it hits the forward in the middle of his chest where he doesn't even have to jump and he can quickly turn a kick the ball over the bar, but doing something like that is almost impossible.

The best example (or worst depending on your point of view) of the blanket defence was Donegal v Dublin in 2011 .In the first half Dublin player a more direct style and kicked a number of balls into their forward line however they were dealt with rather easily by Donegals superior numbers in defence and the pressure they put on the kicker. Dublin only got an upper hand in the game when Kevin McManamon came on and ran hard at the Donegals defence and quick hand passing moves allowed Dublin to break it down somewhat and draw some fouls.Quick handpassing moves and hard running is the way to beat the blanket defence and that is why when a team plays a very defensive style you end up with excessive handpassing.

ciarriaithuaidh · 01-04-2015 10:45pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Few things:

The game doesn't need to change at all. The issue lies with those playing against the blanket defence and not those employing it. Find a way to beat it - even if that means doing the same. There are always going to be dour games especially at this time of the year but guess what - the two sides playing the most dour styles are likely to be relegated so what benefit has it been to them? Eventually their own fans will vote with their feet or with their voice and something will change. Or their coaches will realise what they are doing is not beneficial to their own team.

The media is so kneejerky its pathetic and I don't understand why anyone decided to listen to such 'visionaries' as Joe Brolly and co. I remember going to games in the mid-90's when Mayo were playing sides and we won 0-8 0-6, 0-10 0-4, 0-7 0-6, 0-9 0-7 in consecutive games. And yet there were no clamours for a radical change in the game. In fact Brolly and co would have you believe these were glory days of GAA - I wasn't old enough to see or remember the so called 'great matches between Meath and Dublin' but watched one of them on TG4 recently and it was absolutely muck. If watching Bernard Flynn taking 10 mins to kick free after free and assaults around the field are your thing then fair enough.

Also I don't remember any media clamouring for change when Donegal faced Tyrone or Mayo faced Tyrone or Derry. Suddenly it becomes a problem when Derry don't (as one writer called it) bend over and lube themselves up for Dublin to have their way with them. As far as I'm concerned any manager that sends his team into a gunfight with that Dublin side matching up man for man is signing his own death warrant. They have exceptional forwards all over including the bench and good attacking backs that I don't think any side in the country could match up to. If anything, if we reached the final this year against Dublin with a gameplan of matching them man for man I'd be calling Connelly and Holmes naive - not saying 'oh well fair play for playing the right way'. No All Ireland has an asteriks beside it saying 'Let it be known the runners up played in the right spirit'.

Another aspect that annoys me, again this relates to the media, where was the objections last year when Kerry played the same way? For almost the entirety of the season they played a cynical blanket defensive brand of football but seemingly are absolved of any criticism. Apparently you must be from one of those northern counties to receive the same scrutiny.

And lastly, everyone calling for the game to change.. how exactly are you planning to do that when our refs can't even get basic decisions right? One or two mentions - not on here - of forcing sides to have 2-3 players in the opposite half. Your gonna need about 2 or 3 more officials per game and there at club games I'm at there aren't even linesman.

In summary, the game will come good in the summer and if not then I'm still not going to worry. Everyone thought it was the end of the world when Tyrone started playing the way they did winning their first All Ireland.

Sorry, but the bit in bold is utter nonsense. Kerry played very defensively in the AI Final. They did NOT play that game throughout the year and I wouldn't think anyone who actually watched the games needed that explained to them.
In case anyone needs reminding of the other major championship games from last year involving Kerry:

Munster final: Kerry 0-24 Cork 0-12
AI 1/4 final: Kerry 1-20 Galway 2-10
Semi final: Kerry 1-16 Mayo 1-16
(Replay Kerry 3-16 Mayo 3-13)

Hardly indicative of "cynical blanket defence" really is it?

robbiezero · 02-04-2015 8:13am

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Sorry, but the bit in bold is utter nonsense. Kerry played very defensively in the AI Final. They did NOT play that game throughout the year and I wouldn't think anyone who actually watched the games needed that explained to them.
In case anyone needs reminding of the other major championship games from last year involving Kerry:

Munster final: Kerry 0-24 Cork 0-12
AI 1/4 final: Kerry 1-20 Galway 2-10
Semi final: Kerry 1-16 Mayo 1-16
(Replay Kerry 3-16 Mayo 3-13)

Hardly indicative of "cynical blanket defence" really is it?

Kerry did what they had to do in terms of last years All-Ireland. Any other tactics would have been ridiculous given what had happened to Dublin.
Play Donegal at their own game and let the better football team win which it did. We saw Dublin do the same against Derry once they copped Derry were parking the bus.
Kerry and Dublin are certainly not the problem, unfortunately the way these top teams are going to deal with the blanket defence is to match which looks like it is going to make for a lot more poor spectacles like last years AI and Saturday night. Far too early to be talking of change though unless we get an absolute plethora of these games in the championship.

robbiezero · 02-04-2015 8:20am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'd question that one.

They didn't hit that many wides. The fact is that they were defending a lead until late in the game. They weren't trying to attack.

I'd have thought Dublins shooting was far worse on the night.

And bear in mind, windy evening, rain sheeting down, crowd booing them.....hostile conditions in more way than one. Derry did a pretty decent job given what they set out to do; they were still in the game with five minutes to go.

When Derry had to come and chase the game to try and win it in the last 10 minutes, they didn't have a clue. They will not win games with blanket defence alone, it just means they will not get hammered.
Dublins shooting was far worse indeed, but they made way more chances and on a dry night would likely have won far more comfortably. It would have to be worrying for Derry how little chances they made and how easily the game was gone from them once Dublin went a point up.

UnitedIrishman · 02-04-2015 4:55pm

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Sorry, but the bit in bold is utter nonsense. Kerry played very defensively in the AI Final. They did NOT play that game throughout the year and I wouldn't think anyone who actually watched the games needed that explained to them.
In case anyone needs reminding of the other major championship games from last year involving Kerry:

Munster final: Kerry 0-24 Cork 0-12
AI 1/4 final: Kerry 1-20 Galway 2-10
Semi final: Kerry 1-16 Mayo 1-16
(Replay Kerry 3-16 Mayo 3-13)

Hardly indicative of "cynical blanket defence" really is it?

Watch back every game they played last year. They played with a double sweeper in their backline. If a team broke at pace against them they pulled and fouled in order to stop the breakaway and delayed the free kick being taken. Mostly without punishment. They did it to Donegal and Mayo and for large parts against Cork, they didn't need to against Galway.

My point isn't that they are wrong to do it - its that they remain the media darlings and the great proponent of everything that's good about Gaelic football while those in the north are the evil ones trying to ruin everything. Its cuteness when Kerry do it and negative and disgraceful when others do.

keane2097 · 02-04-2015 5:04pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Watch back every game they played last year. They played with a double sweeper in their backline.

Those was the wing backs.

UnitedIrishman · 02-04-2015 5:15pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Those was the wing backs.

Their half forwards dropped back too to play almost as extra half backs, breaking from deep and leaving a lot of space in front of the full forwards.

robbiezero · 02-04-2015 5:19pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

My point isn't that they are wrong to do it - its that they remain the media darlings and the great proponent of everything that's good about Gaelic football while those in the north are the evil ones trying to ruin everything. Its cuteness when Kerry do it and negative and disgraceful when others do.

Because Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Cork etc are almost always good to watch and in general do not do ultra-defensive (bar Dublin in 2010 for a while).

The semi-final games v Mayo that you are giving out about were two fantastic games.
A very high percentage of the awful ultra-defensive football that we have been seen has been played by the Ulster teams which is why they get the brunt of the criticism. Who do you think was the main cause of the awfulness of Saturday nights game?

UnitedIrishman · 02-04-2015 5:31pm

robbiezero wrote: »

Because Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Cork etc are almost always good to watch and in general do not do ultra-defensive (bar Dublin in 2010 for a while).

The semi-final games v Mayo that you are giving out about were two fantastic games.
A very high percentage of the awful ultra-defensive football that we have been seen has been played by the Ulster teams which is why they get the brunt of the criticism. Who do you think was the main cause of the awfulness of Saturday nights game?

Of course it was Derry but what are they supposed to do? I'm in whole agreement that no matter who does it - they are entitled to do it. I'm saying that in games where sides - who are traditionally the big sides and the stylish sides - play that way then they are excused for doing so and yet when the smaller sides with less ammunition to open up play defensively they are admonished by the media.

It's a moot point anyways and only a personal opinion amongst my original post so I'm not going to go overboard in a disagreement with anyone about it.

keane2097 · 02-04-2015 5:31pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Their half forwards dropped back too to play almost as extra half backs, breaking from deep and leaving a lot of space in front of the full forwards.

That's really not accurate. One of the most important aspects of the entire Kerry gameplan is pushing up on the opposition to force them to go long with their kick outs.

The back six held positions, the midfield sat back around the 45 and the half forwards tracked opposition runs back.

You can watch it all on Youtube. If you come back with the conclusion that what you saw is a blanket defence then grand, but I don't think what Kerry did even in the final fits the definition most people have.

It was conservative sure, but blanket? Not at all really, unless we want that term to just mean not sending every loose man up the field and not tracking your man back.

UnitedIrishman · 02-04-2015 5:40pm

keane2097 wrote: »

It was conservative sure, but blanket? Not at all really, unless we want that term to just mean not sending every loose man up the field and not tracking your man back.

Yeah I probably should have phrased it better than using the term blanket as a catch all phrase. Because even by leaving the full forward line where it is it isn't a blanket defence. Big difference is though that Kerry had excellent forwards able to finish attacks whilst outside of Donegal, Tyrone and others are lacking.

dxhound2005 · 02-04-2015 7:46pm

robbiezero wrote: »

Because Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Cork etc are almost always good to watch and in general do not do ultra-defensive (bar Dublin in 2010 for a while).

The semi-final games v Mayo that you are giving out about were two fantastic games.
A very high percentage of the awful ultra-defensive football that we have been seen has been played by the Ulster teams which is why they get the brunt of the criticism. Who do you think was the main cause of the awfulness of Saturday nights game?

It would be fair then to expect that these tactics would result in lower than average scoring opportunities and consequently fewer scores? And games between two Ulster teams would be particularly low scoring. Isn't that the point of ultra defensive football Ulster style?

But strangely when I picked two random years from the old days 1991 and 1992 and compared them to 2013 and 2014 the average number of scores are remarkably similar. That is all the games in the Ulster Championship in those years.

The average number of scores were 23,25,26 and 27 with 27 being in 2014 and 23 being in 1991. The lowest number of scores was in a game in 1991 1-7 to 0-8. The highest was 2014 3-13 to 2-18. There were 12 goals scored in 1991 in 9 games, 22 in 2014 in 10 games.

So ultra defensive football has failed, since a team deploying that system still has to go and score as much as teams did before the system existed. Looking at scores from over the years in all the provinces and in all the leagues I cannot see any recent pattern of more games with low numbers of scores.

Every year there are results like Donegal Monaghan and Dublin Derry in this years league. Were the Leinster final results of 1977 Dublin 1-9 Meath 0-8 or 1996 Meath 0-10 Dublin 0-8 due to ultra defensive football?

robbiezero · 02-04-2015 7:58pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It would be fair then to expect that these tactics would result in lower than average scoring opportunities and consequently fewer scores? And games between two Ulster teams would be particularly low scoring. Isn't that the point of ultra defensive football Ulster style?

But strangely when I picked two random years from the old days 1991 and 1992 and compared them to 2013 and 2014 the average number of scores are remarkably similar. That is all the games in the Ulster Championship in those years.

The average number of scores were 23,25,26 and 27 with 27 being in 2014 and 23 being in 1991. The lowest number of scores was in a game in 1991 1-7 to 0-8. The highest was 2014 3-13 to 2-18. There were 12 goals scored in 1991 in 9 games, 22 in 2014 in 10 games.

So ultra defensive football has failed, since a team deploying that system still has to go and score as much as teams did before the system existed. Looking at scores from over the years in all the provinces and in all the leagues I cannot see any recent pattern of more games with low numbers of scores.

Every year there are results like Donegal Monaghan and Dublin Derry in this years league. Were the Leinster final results of 1977 Dublin 1-9 Meath 0-8 or 1996 Meath 0-10 Dublin 0-8 due to ultra defensive football?

Don't see how that in any way negates my point which is that most ultra defensive games in the last number of years have involved an Ulster team.
I don't know if you can say ultra defensive football has failed, Donegal won an All-Ireland off it, certainly ultra defensive football without a decent counter-attacking has failed as per Donegal 2011, Derry last Saturday night.
Tyrone employed it to great effect down in Mayo a few weeks ago.

keane2097 · 02-04-2015 8:01pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Yeah I probably should have phrased it better than using the term blanket as a catch all phrase. Because even by leaving the full forward line where it is it isn't a blanket defence. Big difference is though that Kerry had excellent forwards able to finish attacks whilst outside of Donegal, Tyrone and others are lacking.

Fair enough. I think the topic at issue is really teams putting 13+ deep into their own half, as Donegal did that one time in 2011 and Derry and Tyrone in particular have been doing this season.

The consensus seems to be that having a good defensive set up, counter-attacking etc is all fine and brings a bit of welcome variety.

robbiezero · 02-04-2015 8:02pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Of course it was Derry but what are they supposed to do? I'm in whole agreement that no matter who does it - they are entitled to do it. I'm saying that in games where sides - who are traditionally the big sides and the stylish sides - play that way then they are excused for doing so and yet when the smaller sides with less ammunition to open up play defensively they are admonished by the media.

It's a moot point anyways and only a personal opinion amongst my original post so I'm not going to go overboard in a disagreement with anyone about it.

I agree with you that Derry hadn't really much choice and will probably be quite pleased with their efforts Saturday night and I imagine some of the Leinster cannon fodder will be taking great interest in how they set up.

Derry played lovely football in last years league and go an unmerciful annihilation off Dublin in the final, which I actually think was the reason for their awful championship run afterwards.

keane2097 · 02-04-2015 8:19pm

Everyone seems to be assuming that Derry would have been annihilated if they had played a more "traditional" style. Dublin really haven't been up to much in the league so far so I don't really buy this inevitable hiding narrative.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 02-04-2015 8:50pm

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-five-ways-to-tackle-boring-football-31109834.html

Irish Independent 01/04/2015

Martin Breheny: Five ways to tackle boring football
Dublin-Derry wasn’t a defining occasion, the game has been crying out for help for years

Judging by the reaction to the Dublin-Derry game last Saturday night, you might think that a malicious virus, not previously experienced in Gaelic football, had swooped down on Croke Park and totally disabled the players' creative instincts.

The death of football. An abomination. An insult to the paying public - give them a refund. Take you choice of descriptive horrors.

Admittedly, a game that produced a total score of 0-12 can't expect to be much-loved but why bestow such importance on a routine league tie, played on a miserable night in March?

The reason, of course, has little to do with the actual game but rather with the contention that it took negativity to new levels. Not true.

There have been dozens of games over the years - many of them much more important than last Saturday's - that were as tactically stultifying. However, they offered more entertainment because players did better on the basics.

Last Saturday produced the perfect recipe for excruciating boredom. Derry came to Croke Park looking for a 0-0 result and Dublin played poorly as they attempted to work around it. Derry sand-bagged the channels, but were unimpressive on the other essentials.

So when it all came together - Derry's nihilism, Dublin's inefficiency and nasty weather - conditions were right for the destruction of entertainment.

That's as far as last Saturday's game goes. It wasn't a defining occasion but rather another piece of evidence in a much broader case.

Gaelic football has been taken down a dark alley and mugged by defensive heavies. From time to time, some durable types escape and attempt to relaunch a more enterprising approach, but it doesn't last long. The negative mob will always get you in the end.

What have the authorities done by way of corrective measures? Damn all, because obviously they don't really care.

If they did, action would have been taken a long time ago to rebalance the game in favour of creativity.It's actually not that difficult because the origin of the problem is pretty obvious. The unregulated use of the hand pass is the biggest curse of all, tying up the game in a straitjacket, which has squeezed it to the point of suffocation.

There are other areas of potential improvement too but none which would have the same dramatic impact. So if you don't want football to continue on its negative patch, try the following five corrective measures - or any combination of them.

1 Restrict the hand pass to three, after which the ball must be played away with the boot. Yes, it would result in possession being lost more often than is currently the case, but would that be such a bad thing?

Apart from making it more difficult for teams to retain possession with interminable crabbing movements across the pitch, it would require improved kicking skills, surely a welcome addition at a time when most outfield players aren't even trusted to take a long range free off the ground.

2 If the number of hand passes is not to be restricted, insist that only forward passes are allowed.

Also, ban all back passes to the goalkeeper. And clamp down on illegal hand passes. Paddy Collins, arguably the best football referee in GAA history, is adamant that anything up to 50pc of them are throws.

There's strong evidence to support him. How can Croke Park continue to ignore that?

3 All kick-outs must pass the '45' metre-line. That was experimented with some years ago and worked extremely well, only to be rejected by Congress 2010. The Football Review Committee (FRC) also proposed it in 2012, but it was shot down at Congress 2013.

4 Increase the value of a goal to four points. Linked to a restriction on the hand pass, it would (or at least it should) encourage coaches to work on strategies to create goals, rather than hoping they will arise.

Rugby increased the value of the try from three to four to five points over the years in order to make it worth planning for.

The goal was worth five points in the early days of the GAA, yet has been at three points since 1896. Surely, it's time for a review.

5 Allow the direct lift off the ground in order to give a player a split second longer to play the ball away.

This was also proposed by the FRC, only to be shot down for no good reason. After all, the current lift is scarcely a great art.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 02-04-2015 8:53pm

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/people-in-my-pub-are-turning-off-gaelic-football-for-other-sports-larry-tompkins-31112603.html

Irish Independent 02/04/2015

'People in my pub are turning off gaelic football for other sports' - Larry Tompkins
Cork legend says punters are losing interest with poor quality of games

Larry Tompkins watched last Saturday's Dublin-Derry game on TV with a mixture of sadness, irritation and frustration.

The sadness derived from what he regarded as a grotesque distortion of a sport he loves, the irritation from what he sees as gross negligence by those entrusted with protecting the integrity of the game and the frustration from a belief that it can be easily remedied if the will is there.

However, he warns that there will be serious consequences if the negativity is not addressed.

"If something isn't done about it, more Irish people will be watching cricket than football in a few years' time. Why have the rules been allowed to reach a stage where the basic skills of football don't matter any more?" said Tompkins, one of football's all-time greats with Kildare and Cork.

As a pub owner on Lavitt's Quay in Cork, a popular venue for sports enthusiasts, he is ideally placed to assess broad public tastes which, he says, are being turned off Gaelic football.

"The people in my pub were very interested in watching the Dublin-Limerick hurling game last Saturday but when they saw how the football game (Dublin v Derry) was going afterwards, they didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Many of them watched soccer on another screen.

"It wasn't just that game either. It's very noticeable that customers are losing interest in football. The locals will watch if Cork are playing, but otherwise I'd often be asked to switch over to soccer, rugby, racing or golf.

"We get a lot of people from around the country coming in here and it's the same with them - they watch the football if their own county is playing, but have no great interest beyond that. It's completely different with hurling. Everyone watches it, whether their county is involved or not," he said.

A trip to an 'away' football league game has become an annual outing for his customers, but because Cork's schedule featured long journeys to Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal and Derry this year, it was decided to take in the hurlers' visit to Galway last month.

"There was a big crowd in Pearse Stadium. The Galway-Cavan football game was on beforehand and if it had been the second game, I doubt if 300 people would have stayed on to see it. And if they did, they would have been bored to tears after the hurling. I couldn't believe how dull the football was. But that's the norm in so many games now," he said.

His contends that the basic skills have been squeezed from football and replaced with robotic programming, which is as boring to watch as it sounds. Dropping banks of players into the defensive half, contracting space so that nobody has room to manoeuvre and refusing to take on a scoring attempt unless the ball has been moved close to goal have all become so ingrained in the modern game that there are serious concerns over where it's heading.

It annoys Tompkins that this has been allowed to happen, despite repeated reviews of rules by various committees.

"The basic skills of football - catching and kicking - have been destroyed. Can the people in charge not see that? Why aren't they doing something about it?

"Can they not see that the public are switching off? And don't be fooled by big championship crowds. People go to support their own counties but how many neutrals want to watch this sort of stuff?

13 Derry players defend against 8 Dublin players during the second half of their Allianz NFL clash in Croke ParkOPEN GALLERY 5
13 Derry players defend against 8 Dublin players during the second half of their Allianz NFL clash in Croke Park
"I brought my seven year-old son to Croke Park to see the All-Ireland quarter-finals last year and I thought: he could play this sort of game, even at his age.

"Run, run; hand pass, hand pass. If you look sideways at a player now, you get a black card. The public like physical confrontation, good solid hits and good old-fashioned steel. Why do you think rugby has become so popular? People love the physical contact, the manliness of it? It's the same with hurling - at least players are allowed get in a decent tackle," he said.

Tompkins, who led Cork to All-Ireland glory in 1990 and who managed them from 1997 to 2003, wants legitimately hard tackling to be permitted as was the case in his playing days.

"The public liked it then and they would like it now. Of course, I'm not talking about dirty play. There's a big difference between that and a manly game where hard, but fair, tackling is allowed. Players are whistled back for next to nothing now. Worse still, they're gone on black cards. I wouldn't mind if it made for a better game but it most certainly has not."

He believes that a relatively small number of rule adjustments would be hugely beneficial.

Kick-outs should be required to travel past the 45-metre line; no back-passing allowed to the goalkeeper; all scoreable free-kicks to be kicked off the ground (with a ban on goalkeepers taking them); restrict the hand pass to two before the ball must be kicked.

"There's no doubt that the hand pass is a problem but that's easily solved by curbing it. Change the hand pass rule and players will get used it very quickly. Failing that, insist on fist-passing only.

"If the kick-out had to pass the 45-metre line every time, it would lead to fielding contests, which would be a good start. People want as many direct contests as possible.

"How often do you see the ball booted in high to the full-forward line nowadays? Kerry do it because they have Kieran Donaghy but you don't see much more of it. Yet, it provides some of the best excitement," he said.

His opposition to back-passing to the goalkeeper centres on how it slows down the game. The same applies to allowing them up to take long range frees.

"It's a joke. They take forever to come up the pitch to do something outfield players should be able to do. Kicking the ball accurately off the ground is a real skill, but how many modern-day players are able to do it?

"I hear debates in the pub about who was the best free-taker of all time, Jimmy Keaveney, Matt Connor, Maurice Sheridan, Tony McTague or whoever. Everyone has their own favourite but who can be added to that list now? It's a lost skill.

"Ronan O'Gara, Jonny Wilkinson and lots of other rugby players made their name with their place-kicking because it's an art, yet it was thrown out of Gaelic football when players were allowed to kick scoreable frees off their hands. How did the game benefit from that? It didn't, of course," said Tompkins.

His parting shot? "Football needs rescuing from bad rules".

ciarriaithuaidh · 02-04-2015 9:13pm

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Yeah I probably should have phrased it better than using the term blanket as a catch all phrase. Because even by leaving the full forward line where it is it isn't a blanket defence. Big difference is though that Kerry had excellent forwards able to finish attacks whilst outside of Donegal, Tyrone and others are lacking.

As I've said, and others have echoed..calling what Kerry did in the Cork, Galway, or both Mayo games last year "a cynical blanket defensive brand of football" is just silly.
There is a vast difference between Kerry's system and Donegal's for example. Anyone putting them in the same bracket doesn't know the game well enough.

Dublin, Mayo, Cork...any Gaelic football team worth it's salt really, has half forwards who track back, occasionally (or more) tackle, sometimes foul opponents, become an option for primary possession (kickouts)..Paul Flynn, Kevin McLoughlin, Ryan McHugh, Donnacha Walsh, Colm O'Driscoll etc.

Anyway, sadly all this hysteria is sweeping away some people in it's tidal wave now. I can only hope that there are many out there like me who see that there is no need for ridiculous rule changes or stupid pronouncements on the "death of Gaelic Football"..who see that even the best "defensive" teams are beatable, will conceed a lot of scores, will not be able to stop a good team playing good attacking football.

Donegal's recent record is actually a good case study to show why this recent hubbub is nonsense.
For the record I have no problem with how Donegal play. They were hammered by Armagh in 2010 in Crossmaglen, were derided as being a rabble of semi-serious footballers etc..and within 2 years won an All Ireland.
In 2011, they played ultra-defensively..I do have a problem with that. Stagnant packing of bodies inside your own 45 just to make a game turgid and low-scoring..but of course, McGuinness did it out of necessity. He had only worked on the squad for a few months and couldn't fully implement the kind of game he wanted.
A year later, Donegal were playing a different kind of game. They were attacking in waves and at pace. They had more of a scoring threat AND they expected more from half forwards and others than merely sitting in their own half back line. They now were expected to push forward and set up attacks aswell. This was all reflected in the scorelines of their major games in 2012.
2-18 to 0-13
1-12 to 1-10
0-16 to 1-11
2-11 to 0-13.

Last year against Dublin, Donegal conceded 0-17 and it could easily have been 2-22. If one watches any of their games, it is obvious that there is always space and scoring opportunities to be found IF a team is smart enough and good enough to find them.

As for Derry or any other team playing the horrible stagnant defensive stuff I spoke of above (that we saw last Saturday), that strategy will only get them so far. A good team will get ahead of them at some point, they will have to come out of their defensive shell and try to get scores. If they have been coached on how to attack from deep and have enough quality up front, they have a chance. If not, they won't.

I've gone on enough. My point is, this hysteria over a bad league game is irresponsible nonsense for the most part. Gaelic Football has NOT become a pile of sh*te overnight.
Lasy year's championship 1/4 finals and semi-finals were excellent. Donegal didn't play well in the final and a Kerry team in their second year of development played defensively to maximise their chances. It was a poor game, fair enough.
While I'm at it, I can't stand is the way that one or 2 bad games results in statements like "the death of Gaelic Football", whereas every single hurling championship game is "one of the best games I've ever seen". The standard of sports journalism and media in this country is appalling really.

End rant.

dxhound2005 · 02-04-2015 9:17pm

If Larry had come North he would have seen Cork involved in three very competitive games with only one point between the teams in all three. Not particularly low scoring games either. Monaghan 1-16 Cork 2-14. Donegal 0-12 Cork 1-8. Tyrone 2-10 Cork 0-17.

I was at the game in Castleblayney and I enjoyed it. Any game which is competitive and high scoring like that one can be enjoyable to watch regardless of whatever "system" is being used.

The previous article wanting kick passes after three hand passes, forward passes only, no backpass to the keeper, long kickouts only etc is a load of nonsense and would be a nightmare for the officials to regulate.

ciarriaithuaidh · 02-04-2015 9:32pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If Larry had come North he would have seen Cork involved in three very competitive games with only one point between the teams in all three. Not particularly low scoring games either. Monaghan 1-16 Cork 2-14. Donegal 0-12 Cork 1-8. Tyrone 2-10 Cork 0-17.

I was at the game in Castleblayney and I enjoyed it. Any game which is competitive and high scoring like that one can be enjoyable to watch regardless of whatever "system" is being used.

The previous article wanting kick passes after three hand passes, forward passes only, no backpass to the keeper, long kickouts only etc is a load of nonsense and would be a nightmare for the officials to regulate.

Larry was a fantastic player, one of the best I've ever seen..but he is fairly clueless as he proved during his ill-fated spell in charge of Cork, not to mention some of the "analysis" he has offered in the media on the game.

keeponhurling · 03-04-2015 1:53pm

Different sports, but interersting how in soccer if there is a lot of passing around it is seen as the right way to play, and when it is hit direct/long then it is seen as not attractive.

In Gaelic it's the opposite, purists want it hit long, with less passing moves in between.

Anyways, the idea proposed above to have 4 points for a goal could be interesting.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-04-2015 1:57pm

keeponhurling wrote: »

Different sports, but interersting how in soccer if there is a lot of passing around it is seen as the right way to play, and when it is hit direct/long then it is seen as not attractive.

In Gaelic it's the opposite, purists want it hit long, with less passing moves in between.

Anyways, the idea proposed above to have 4 points for a goal could be interesting.

I don't think anyone minds fast hand passing moves that are going forward it's the tedious excessive lateral hand passing that a lot of people want rid of.

To be honest I would say that it 4 points for a goal is a dreadful idea that would make things worse and would lead to more defensive play as the incentive to block up the centre of the field and make sure no goals were scored would be even greater.Also the greatest skill in Gaelic Football is point scoring and by increasing the value of a goal it decreases the relative value of a point.Most goals are scored (and will continue) to be scored when a player is clean through and has almost no option but go for goal there is nowhere near as much skill involved in driving the ball to the back of the net from 14 yards out as there is in kicking a good point.

HighKing33 · 03-04-2015 3:01pm

3 points for a goal is about right, increase it to four and teams lacking quality forwards will really get shown up.

A better idea is to introduce a 2 pointer zone similar to what exists in basketball, a large, elongated D extending about 42 meters out from goal, so players will be rewarded for scoring tricky points from distance or out in the corners - it's also a useful ploy to punish teams that sit too deep.

It might mean redesigning the pitch markings but the GAA pitch isn't easy on the eye and aesthetics are important in the TV era so no harm done.

Boom__Boom · 03-04-2015 3:15pm

HighKing33 wrote: »

3 points for a goal is about right, increase it to four and teams lacking quality forwards will really get shown up.

A better idea is to introduce a 2 pointer zone similar to what exists in basketball, a large, elongated D extending about 42 meters out from goal, so players will be rewarded for scoring tricky points from distance or out in the corners - it's also a useful ploy to punish teams that sit too deep.

It might mean redesigning the pitch markings but the GAA pitch isn't easy on the eye and aesthetics are important in the TV era so no harm done.

Really good suggestion in my opinion.

Fairly easy to ref and rewards positive play - when you think about it, it does seem a bit mad that a glorious effort from 40 metres out is worth the same as a fisted effort from 5 metres out.

Really struggling to think of any downsides.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 03-04-2015 3:39pm

A extra point for a difficult score is a decent idea as long as it was in an arc like in Basketball.

It would force teams to have to push out and defend further from goal as at the moment they can just clog up the middle inside the 45 and stifle a lot of scoring chances .

platypus · 03-04-2015 3:52pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Really good suggestion in my opinion.

Fairly easy to ref and rewards positive play - when you think about it, it does seem a bit mad that a glorious effort from 40 metres out is worth the same as a fisted effort from 5 metres out.

Really struggling to think of any downsides.

Surely no less mad than awarding twice as much points for one score as another maybe only 1 metre closer to the goal?

Don't think its the worst idea in the world, but I don't know I think 'artificial' solutions like this tend to throw up unusual situations which don't seem fair. I think it would certainly devalue goals a little. Also would you allow it from frees? If so it seems over generous if not it may become an advantage to foul

platypus · 03-04-2015 4:21pm

In general I don't think there is too much wrong with the game, I think a lot of the problem is the media who lead by Spillane and Brolly criticise the game and pine for the past every couple of weeks (Brolly can be give excellent analysis, but he also likes the controversial sound bite to keep his profile up).

Take the difference between the analysis of football and hurling. We are regularly told hurling games are great (even damp squibs like the Clare Limerick semi in 13) while a football game is automatically classified as dour unless they are absolute classics. This thread is evidence that a lot of the people who follow football aren't as turned off by the fare as the guys in the studios look to be ( and the people who don't really follow the games who just parrot what they say). Some of the suggestions from high profile GAA journalists people posted in this thread, such as free kicks only from ground are ludicrous imo

As regards rule changes I think we have to be careful of what actually will happen when we change a rule, not what we hope will happen. For example:

Sin bin. We hope to put forward a meaningful punishment for cynical play, which it would imo. I also think it would mean teams would go ultra defensive for the time period they are down men, which seems to be what we are trying to avoid

Kick out past 45. Might mean more high fielding. In reality I would think teams would set up deeper on kick outs meaning even though kick outs would go longer high fielding would be nearly impossible and there would be a load of bodies at the break

Limit hand pass, yeah there will be more kicking, but again teams will just sit deep until it has to be kicked. Despite the purists great desire for more kicking, watching people kicking possession away doesn't make for good viewing

There definitely needs to be a bigger punishment for delaying free kicks, I'd like to see it added to the black card offences. Instead of black card I think a yellow +13m free from straight in front of posts(obv penalty if in square)no matter where foul occurs, or if clear goal scoring opportunity a penalty(even if foul outside area). The tackle needs to be better defined as to what is or is not allowed especially when multiple tacklers are involved

To be fair to the gaa I think the black card has improved things, even if refs are still inconsistent in its application

wackokid · 04-04-2015 10:32pm

In general I don't think there is too much wrong with the game, I think a lot of the problem is the media who lead by Spillane and Brolly criticise the game and pine for the past every couple of weeks (Brolly can be give excellent analysis, but he also likes the controversial sound bite to keep his profile up).

Take the difference between the analysis of football and hurling. We are regularly told hurling games are great (even damp squibs like the Clare Limerick semi in 13) while a football game is automatically classified as dour unless they are absolute classics. This thread is evidence that a lot of the people who follow football aren't as turned off by the fare as the guys in the studios look to be ( and the people who don't really follow the games who just parrot what they say). Some of the suggestions from high profile GAA journalists people posted in this thread, such as free kicks only from ground are ludicrous imo

As regards rule changes I think we have to be careful of what actually will happen when we change a rule, not what we hope will happen. For example:

Sin bin. We hope to put forward a meaningful punishment for cynical play, which it would imo. I also think it would mean teams would go ultra defensive for the time period they are down men, which seems to be what we are trying to avoid

Kick out past 45. Might mean more high fielding. In reality I would think teams would set up deeper on kick outs meaning even though kick outs would go longer high fielding would be nearly impossible and there would be a load of bodies at the break

Limit hand pass, yeah there will be more kicking, but again teams will just sit deep until it has to be kicked. Despite the purists great desire for more kicking, watching people kicking possession away doesn't make for good viewing

There definitely needs to be a bigger punishment for delaying free kicks, I'd like to see it added to the black card offences. Instead of black card I think a yellow +13m free from straight in front of posts(obv penalty if in square)no matter where foul occurs, or if clear goal scoring opportunity a penalty(even if foul outside area). The tackle needs to be better defined as to what is or is not allowed especially when multiple tacklers are involved

To be fair to the gaa I think the black card has improved things, even if refs are still inconsistent in its application

Very good analysis 'platypus'.
The voice of reason. My biggest bugbear with gaelic football and I sound like a broken record at this stage...........frees inside the scoring zone being taken from the wrong place. Refs just turn their backs and ignore freetakers steal 5 10 or even 15 yards, come across in front of the goals and tap over a point. Boy do we need a cannister or two of that invisible spray the soccer boys use. They sorted the 'yard stealing' in one foul and simple swoop. Course we could never copy a 'foreign' game............:)

Nidgeweasel · 04-04-2015 10:42pm

Larry Tomkins is talking out of his arsehole.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 04-04-2015 11:06pm

wackokid wrote: »

Very good analysis 'platypus'.
The voice of reason. My biggest bugbear with gaelic football and I sound like a broken record at this stage...........frees inside the scoring zone being taken from the wrong place. Refs just turn their backs and ignore freetakers steal 5 10 or even 15 yards, come across in front of the goals and tap over a point. Boy do we need a cannister or two of that invisible spray the soccer boys use. They sorted the 'yard stealing' in one foul and simple swoop. Course we could never copy a 'foreign' game............:)

[/QUOTE]

Thats a fairly minor thing to be honest and anything that favours the attacking team should be encouraged in my opinion.

I don't begrudge the free takers taking a couple of extra yards from a free as they've probably had loads of frees that haven't been awarded throughout a game also I would says it even more common for the defensive team to not move back quickly enough to allow a quick free to be taken.

QuinDixie · 04-04-2015 11:11pm

<SNIP>

QuinDixie · 04-04-2015 11:35pm

tom Joad why did u edit my post for trolling. It was a simple joke.

Tom Joad · 05-04-2015 7:16am

QuinDixie wrote: »

tom Joad why did u edit my post for trolling. It was a simple joke.

MOD: Yes a simple joke sounds about right. Have a read of the charter before you post in the GAA forum again.

jossys_giants · 05-04-2015 10:20am

keane2097 wrote: »

Derry and Tyrone in particular have been doing this season.

How many other Derry games have you seen this year?

HighKing33 · 05-04-2015 11:58am

platypus wrote: »

Surely no less mad than awarding twice as much points for one score as another maybe only 1 metre closer to the goal?

Don't think its the worst idea in the world, but I don't know I think 'artificial' solutions like this tend to throw up unusual situations which don't seem fair. I think it would certainly devalue goals a little. Also would you allow it from frees? If so it seems over generous if not it may become an advantage to foul

Technically every rule is 'artificial', the game is a man-made passtime after all. Yeah, to be consistent you would have to allow two points for any free kick outside the zone. Is it too generous? No, it's deterring players from fouling at midfield, still a big problem in football so that's an added bonus in my view.

Football Crisis - What's to be done?

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