Proposed IT Carlow/WIT Merger

road_high

Note there's no discussion/thread here on the proposed merger. Seen lots of opinions from Waterford but what do people in Carlow think of the proposal for a South East tech uni?
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/carlowpeople/news/wit-staff-set-to-strike-over-merger-31087994.html

PeteFalk78

I think it would be good for Carlow and ITC. If an IoT is not becoming a Technological University (TU) then they are going to be in the 3rd tier of higher education in Ireland. No IoT wants that.

WIT have belittled, disparage and denigrated all aspects of ITC over the past few months. This coming from a college who are too big for their boots. The outrageous financial discrepancies and farcical IT problems at the start of the year seem to be lost on them.
The unfortunate thing is ITC are being forced to merge with the most awkward, egotistical and conceited IoT in the whole country who think that they are entitled to become a TU solely based on the fact they've lobbied for university status since Neanderthals roamed the earth.

Seriously. I can't understand why the TUI could give a vote of no confidence in the WIT/ITC merger process whilst totally ignoring other TU mergers in other provinces.

road_high

I think it would be good for Carlow town more generally, giving it a more central role in the South east, especially as the fastest growing large urban centre in the south east.

brianblaze

road_high wrote: »

fastest growing large urban centre in the south east.

Source? Not doubting, just interested!

road_high

brianblaze wrote: »

Source? Not doubting, just interested!

Last number of census'. Taking just Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford and Wexford town here as all over 20k people. Think Kilkenny might been a bit higher the last census but Carlow has grown way faster % wise through the 90s/00s. That's before you consider the enormous growth in Kildare/Wicklow/Laois which all use Carlow as a service centre.

PeteFalk78

brianblaze wrote: »

Source? Not doubting, just interested!

A few years old but ......

http://www.carlow.ie/SiteCollectionDocuments/Publications/Carlow%20Town%20Development%20Plan/app10-population-trends.pdf

County Carlow’s population is 52,500 (2008) – an increase of 6,486 between 2002 and 2008 – over 14% increase from the Census 2002 and ahead of the national average, 10%.

road_high

I think it's wise to be putting services where people live/close to them, hand in hand with this population growth will/is more young people hence more demand for 3rd level education.

oscillating wildely

There is a lot of rubbish emanating from Waterford in terms of the academic stature of Carlow. None of it really has any credibility either as the quality of research work being done in Carlow stands up to robust examination as does the quality of most of the academic staff; all educational institutions have dinosaurs who are protect by silly union and public sector rules.

As alluded to earlier the moral highground being taken by Waterford is laughable given their internal issues and they are tryng to create a smokescreen by referring to academic performance which doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

PeteFalk78

oscillating wildely wrote: »

As alluded to earlier the moral highground being taken by Waterford is laudible given their internal issues and they are tryng to create a smokescreen by referring to academic performance which doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

:eek::D

road_high

oscillating wildely wrote: »

There is a lot of rubbish emanating from Waterford in terms of the academic stature of Carlow. None of it really has any credibility either as the quality of research work being done in Carlow stands up to robust examination as does the quality of most of the academic staff; all educational institutions have dinosaurs who are protect by silly union and public sector rules.

As alluded to earlier the moral highground being taken by Waterford is laudible given their internal issues and they are tryng to create a smokescreen by referring to academic performance which doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Laughable?! Of course. When people take off the blue and white rose-tinted specs that is....

oscillating wildely

Oops!

Post now edited!

road_high

Company I work for merged with/took over another company before. People had to adapt on all sides coming from different ethoses and approaches, there was no petulant strikes or whining. After all, the company was paying everyone's bloody wages. If people didn't like it they knew where the door was...these are taxpayer/government funded institutions and if the
elected government decides a merger is in the best national/regional interest I fail to se how or why it should be any different.

road_high

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

A few years old but ......

http://www.carlow.ie/SiteCollectionDocuments/Publications/Carlow%20Town%20Development%20Plan/app10-population-trends.pdf

Not just Carlow itself growing fast, Population of all surrounding counties to Carlow in Census 2011;

Carlow 54,612
Kildare 210,312
Kilkenny 95,419
Laois 80,559
Wexford 145,320
Wicklow 136,640

Some of the fastest growing areas all lie in Carlow's immediate catchment.

RYGCat

Interesting to note in last set of HEA stats -2013/14 - IT Carlow is the 4th biggest Institute after DIT, Cork and WIT!

imacman

oscillating wildely wrote: »

There is a lot of rubbish emanating from Waterford in terms of the academic stature of Carlow. None of it really has any credibility either as the quality of research work being done in Carlow stands up to robust examination as does the quality of most of the academic staff; all educational institutions have dinosaurs who are protect by silly union and public sector rules.

As alluded to earlier the moral highground being taken by Waterford is laughable given their internal issues and they are tryng to create a smokescreen by referring to academic performance which doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Well are least waterford have put their cards on the table and pulled out .I think it's funny that carlow people bash WIT but still want to merge.You can't have it both ways lads

road_high

RYGCat wrote: »

Interesting to note in last set of HEA stats -2013/14 - IT Carlow is the 4th biggest Institute after DIT, Cork and WIT!

Is this in numbers attending? Hardly surprising given the massive population of it's catchment area.

RYGCat

road_high wrote: »

Is this in numbers attending? Hardly surprising given the massive population of it's catchment area.

Yes, student enrolments according to HEA

wellboytoo

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

I think it would be good for Carlow and ITC. If an IoT is not becoming a Technological University (TU) then they are going to be in the 3rd tier of higher education in Ireland. No IoT wants that.

WIT have belittled, disparage and denigrated all aspects of ITC over the past few months. This coming from a college who are too big for their boots. The outrageous financial discrepancies and farcical IT problems at the start of the year seem to be lost on them.
The unfortunate thing is ITC are being forced to merge with the most awkward, egotistical and conceited IoT in the whole country who think that they are entitled to become a TU solely based on the fact they've lobbied for university status since Neanderthals roamed the earth.

Seriously. I can't understand why the TUI could give a vote of no confidence in the WIT/ITC merger process whilst totally ignoring other TU mergers in other provinces.

Woo hoo I wonder what job you were refused in WIT?
Talking about putting your prejudices out first and front.
You arrived on the Waterford forum out of the blue today spewing the above invective and got the reaction one would expect.
You now are doing the same in the Carlow forum , one wonders what your agenda is?
Waterford has been lobbying for 30 years for University status, this current politically inspired idea of a forced merger is unwelcome and has been from day one.
It is dead in the water now and was the moment it was proposed ,why are you trying to paint Waterford as the bad boy?
You are either just a bitter sh1t stirrer or have an agenda that is politically motivated.
Grow up boy there are real battles to be fought out there this one is over.

PeteFalk78

imacman wrote: »

Well are least waterford have put their cards on the table and pulled out .I think it's funny that carlow people bash WIT but still want to merge.You can't have it both ways lads

I still think there may be merits in merging. The reason WIT pulled out was because they still think they can go on their own. They saw themselves as the biggest fish in a 2 fish pond, they wanted an acquisition instead of a merger.

If they climbed down off their high horse and faced reality then a merger may still be on the cards.

brianblaze

Would make more sense to form a new Kilkenny and Carlow IT in my opinion. Waterford is miles away, at least KK is closer! (and is a city with no college to speak of!)

road_high

brianblaze wrote: »

Would make more sense to form a new Kilkenny and Carlow IT in my opinion. Waterford is miles away, at least KK is closer! (and is a city with no college to speak of!)

Could be the way it's headed. Leave them to their own devices. Catchment is far too small for a university though, so like it or not Waterford will have to work within a South East framework, much as sharing anything seems to gaul an element down there. They want to be on the same status as Galway, Cork and limerick but without the population to support it.

road_high

Could Carlow look at merging with some of the Dublin Its? Far more connected to there anyhow and it's hinterland.

Loreto_girl

road_high wrote: »

Could Carlow look at merging with some of the Dublin Its? Far more connected to there anyhow and it's hinterland.

Better off looking to the midlands or Midwest? They'd be swallowed up by the DIT

Morf

brianblaze wrote: »

Would make more sense to form a new Kilkenny and Carlow IT in my opinion. Waterford is miles away, at least KK is closer! (and is a city with no college to speak of!)

NUI Maynooth already have a Kilkenny Campus (in name) and IT Carlow a Wexford one I think.

What they actually consist of I couldn't say from personal experience.

mountcisco

brianblaze wrote: »

Would make more sense to form a new Kilkenny and Carlow IT in my opinion. Waterford is miles away, at least KK is closer! (and is a city with no college to speak of!)

These mergers are not supposed to cost anything so I'd say for Kilkenny to get any kind of college John McGuinness would have to be leader of FF and they'd have to be in power or in coalition (not altogether impossible). I think a Carlow IT / DIT merger would be a good move.

brianblaze

Why bother merging really though? It's a growing college and doing well for itself, with some great facilities (Science/ Sports Science. Who needs a merge?

artanevilla

For the benefits of being a University as opposed to an IT I suppose. Ireland currently has no Technological University and in my opinion it needs one, so why not WIT/ITC?

road_high

Loreto_girl wrote: »

Better off looking to the midlands or Midwest? They'd be swallowed up by the DIT

Yea but Carlow is not well connected to Athlone or Limerick and are a lot further than Dublin or Waterford. Logistically impractical. DIT wouldn't be bad as they are the leading IT in Ireland and Carlow is far enough out of Dublin to build on it's own catchment.

road_high

mountcisco wrote: »

These mergers are not supposed to cost anything so I'd say for Kilkenny to get any kind of college John McGuinness would have to be leader of FF and they'd have to be in power or in coalition (not altogether impossible). I think a Carlow IT / DIT merger would be a good move.

He might be leader of FF soon but is not going to be Taoiseach anytime soon so I don't think that will have any impact.
You'd imagine there should be savings ultimately by merging, but this is the public service I suppose.

JaCrispy

Kelly report about the viability of the merger

education.ie/en/Publications/Education-Reports/Engagement-and-Consultation-Process-on-a-Technological-University-for-the-South-East.pdf

Some damning stuff about WITs attitude to the whole process.

oscillating wildely

*MOD SNIP*
Do you disagree that the report findings are critical of WIT's approach to the process?