Proposed IT Carlow/WIT Merger

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

The majority is not the vast majority.

So you are saying that the majority of people in Wexford county are closer to Waterford City than Wexford Town? Is that what you are really claiming?

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Bottom line is that Carlow is perfectly positioned to consistently increase its numbers year on year. Simply because of its location in the south east - a landlocked county. In direct contact with Laois - Kilkenny - Wicklow and Wexford which don't have any primary third level campus.

Waterford is in direct conflict with Cork and their soon to be 2 Universities and sits at the very bottom and most awkward area to get to for the majority of the SE population.

And you still haven't proved how the population boom in Carlow and it's catchment (which was caused by the boom) is unsustainable. You made this claim before in the Waterford forum with absolutely no backup. Are you expecting these people to sell up and go home? Are you expecting these people not have children or something? You really make up some ridiculous straw man arguments.

Bottom line is that Carlow is the periphery of the region and had not got the critical mass within the region to act as a major centre in the region or with Laois. It is the last of four urban centres in the South East. And your proclivity for lying matches your penchant for changing username and deleting posts. I backed up this fact with a dozen links and it has been re-affirmed by Frank MacDonald in the banking inquiry who has also written volumes on it. It is no wonder you have to use Contrived statistics. You seem to think Cork (80 miles away) poses a threat to Waterford with UCC and its soon to be makey uppey Univesity. Yet ignore that the even more grave implications for Carlow. Dublin has four (soon to be five;) Universities less than 50 miles from Carlow and not to mention Waterford also 50 miles from Waterford.

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

So you are saying that the majority of people in Wexford county are closer to Waterford City than Wexford Town? Is that what you are really claiming?

For all intents and purposes yes. 49 miles is closer than 51 but not worth talking about.

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I backed up this fact with a dozen links and it has been re-affirmed by Frank MacDonald in the banking inquiry who has also written volumes on it.

Yes you posted links. It's a pity for you that every single one of them didn't back up your statement that growth was "unsustainable"

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

20 weeks (average college term) x 10 times (a week) = 200 x €1.90 (toll fare) = €380 (ish) a year

That's gonna be around twice the price of the standard yearly household water charges. You know the water charges - all the protests in Dublin - 1000s of people etc etc.

€380???? Very much prohibitive.

One months room rental

Speak for yourself but that is only for driving. There are many who choose accommodation or Public transport. And anyway that is if you need the toll bridge. You don't.

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Yes you posted links. It's a pity for you that every single one of them didn't back up your statement that growth was "unsustainable"

Collectively they all backed up what I said. You on the other hand are trying to propagate the fantasy that the ghost estate capital of Ireland is the centre of the region:D

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

For all intents and purposes yes. 49 miles is closer than 51 but not worth talking about.

Huh? What is 49 miles and 51 miles from where?

road_high

Kildare is and always has been on Carlow's doorstep (buy yourself a good map 😉) with it's 250k population and fastest growing population in ireland. Carlow town is right on the border (mile or two) and to anyone South of Kilcullen Carlow was their regional centre and continues to be so. Take a drive around Carlow and every second reg is a KE. You don't want to hear it but far more people (younger and faster growing) live closer to Carlow than they do waterford and this must be considered in any new SE university scenario. You can ignore and rubbish this is all day long but it's the reality of the matter.

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Collectively they all backed up what I said. You on the other hand are trying to propagate the fantasy that the ghost estate capital of Ireland is the centre of the region:D

How is Carlow the "ghost estate capital of Ireland"? I can find at least 15 more counties with more ghost estates in the report below. More horseh1te from yourself.

maynoothuniversity.ie/research/people-place-and-environment/spatial-analysis/projects/ghost-estates-ireland

Carlow (15), Cavan (21), Clare (9), Cork City (6), County Cork (90), Donegal (22), Dublin City (24), Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown (10), Fingal (17), Galway City (6), Galway County (20), Kerry (21), Kildare (25), Kilkenny (21), Laoighis (15), Leitrim (21), Limerick City (0), Limerick County (11), Longford (19), Louth (17), Mayo (21), Meath (19), Monaghan (18), Offaly (6), Roscommon (35), Sligo (24), South Dublin (7), Tipperary North (16), Tipperary South (17), Waterford City (6), Waterford County (9), Westmeath (18), Wexford (24), Wicklow (11).

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Huh? What is 49 miles and 51 miles from where?

Let me spell it out for you. The population growth in Wexford is in areas that are marginally closer to Wexford Town than Waterford i.e the North. That is only distance. When infrastructure improvements come online such as the New Ross and Enniscorthy bypass then most of the areas of high growth in Wexford will be closer to Waterford than Wexford town. They essentially are anyway as the difference is only marginal. These infrastructure improvements are essentially connecting the N25 and M1 and will give Waterford equal access to North Wexford. Even as it is the proximity of population in settlement to Wexford West is distributed evenly between Wexford and Waterford.

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Let me spell it out for you. The population growth in Wexford is in areas that are marginally closer to Wexford Town than Waterford i.e the North. That is only distance. When infrastructure improvements come online such as the New Ross and Enniscorthy bypass then most of the areas of high growth in Wexford will be closer to Waterford than Wexford town. These infrastructure improvements essentially connecting the N25 and M1.

Any sources to back up the statements in bold above?

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

How is Carlow the "ghost estate capital of Ireland"? I can find at least 15 more counties with more ghost estates in the report below. More horseh1te from yourself.

maynoothuniversity.ie/research/people-place-and-environment/spatial-analysis/projects/ghost-estates-ireland

The same source shows per capita Carlow is the highest which is the more accurate parameter as its the smallest county. So read it and weep. You can even see from your source that if Carlow had the population of Wexford than it would have 45 estates.

fuzzy dunlop

road_high wrote: »

Kildare is and always has been on Carlow's doorstep (buy yourself a good map 😉) with it's 250k population and fastest growing population in ireland. Carlow town is right on the border (mile or two) and to anyone South of Kilcullen Carlow was their regional centre and continues to be so. Take a drive around Carlow and every second reg is a KE. You don't want to hear it but far more people (younger and faster growing) live closer to Carlow than they do waterford and this must be considered in any new SE university scenario. You can ignore and rubbish this is all day long but it's the reality of the matter.

So Kildare with a population of 250K is in Carlows "hinterland" with a pop. of 50K. FFS man get a grip:D You are pretending Kildare is some sort of dormitory of Carlow. When it is in fact the other way around. You mean far more "younger" people with a crippling mortgages forced out of Dublin are living nearer to Carlow. But that trend will soon be over thank God.

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

The same source shows per capita Carlow is the highest which is the more accurate parameter as its the smallest county. So read it and weep. You can even see from your source that if Carlow had the population of Wexford than it would have 45 estates.

Per capita. That hardly makes it the "ghost capital" does it?

And Carlow isn't the smallest county. Neither by size nor by population. I can provide a source for that fact if you want. You know what a source is?

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You mean far more "younger" people with a crippling mortgages forced out of Dublin are living nearer to Carlow. But that trend will soon be over thank God.

Don't bet on it. Dublin property prices are recovering quicker than anywhere else in the country meaning more people commuting to Dublin from Carlow.

road_high

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

So Kildare with a population of 250K is in Carlows "hinterland" with a pop. of 50K. FFS man get a grip:D You are pretending Kildare is some sort of dormitory of Carlow. When it is in fact the other way around. You mean far more "younger" people with a crippling mortgages forced out of Dublin are living nearer to Carlow. But that trend will soon be over thank God.

Do we live on the same country? Have you been to Dublin/surrounds the past few years? It's booming and if anything the trend of growth around it's commuter belt is only going to accelerate. Waterford by comparison remains fairly stagnant. Much of Kildare is a mere 20/30/40 mins from Carlow, so yes, like it or not they go to Carlow and will continue to go for their education. It's simple geographical convenience. They don't decide at the border that only 56k people live here, we mustn't work/study/do business there. They just go to Carlow as they would Naas, Dublin or Newbridge.

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Don't bet on it. Property prices are recovering quicker than anywhere else in the country meaning more people commuting to Dublin from Carlow.

No it doesn't. Affordable property availability is still way better than boom periods in Dublin and even more so in Kildare/Meath. There is no need to venture as far as Carlow. Not to mention that it is totally undesirable from a planning perspective. And even if what you say is true you actually think its a good thing just because Carlow benefits?

road_high

JaCrispy wrote: »

Don't bet on it. Property prices are recovering quicker than anywhere else in the country meaning more people commuting to Dublin from Carlow.

Theres a definite upward trend towards commuting again as Dublin roars ahead, places like Carlow feel a drip down.
Id also say and would always Carlow needs more sustainble business growth locally and a university (part of) can be a key driver.

fuzzy dunlop

road_high wrote: »

Do we live on the same country? Have you been to Dublin/surrounds the past few years? It's booming and if anything the trend of growth around it's commuter belt is only going to accelerate. Waterford by comparison remains fairly stagnant. Much of Kildare is a mere 20/30/40 mins from Carlow, so yes, like it or not they go to Carlow and will continue to go for their education. It's simple geographical convenience. They don't decide at the border that only 56k people live here, we mustn't work/study/do business there. They just go to Carlow as they would Naas, Dublin or Newbridge.

This is pure BS and yes I lived in Kilcock until recently and the notion of anyone going to Carlow for Anything is ludicrous. There is more services available in Naas, Newbridge and Maynooth than in Carlow . Hospitals or Education facilities are also covered in county to a higher level. So I doubt we are living in the same country if you think Carlow is the main centre for Kildare. It isn't and never was. There is an equivalent retail pull in Maymooth alone when compared to Carlow so just stop with this nonsense.

road_high

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No it doesn't. Affordable property availability is still way better than boom periods in Dublin and even more so in Kildare/Meath. There is no need to venture as far as Carlow. Not to mention that it is totally undesirable from a planning perspective. And even if what you say is true you actually think its a good thing just because Carlow benefits?

But do you realise many locals commute to Kildare and Dublin? These aren't just people that have ventured out for cheaper housing.

fuzzy dunlop

road_high wrote: »

But do you realise many locals commute to Kildare and Dublin? These aren't just people that have ventured out for cheaper housing.

And what about it? It dosn't change the fact that Carlow's "high" growth is undesirable and unsustainable.

fuzzy dunlop

road_high wrote: »

Theres a definite upward trend towards commuting again as Dublin roars ahead, places like Carlow feel a drip down.
Id also say and would always Carlow needs more sustainble business growth locally and a university (part of) can be a key driver.

Yipeee!!!! more property mania.

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

And what about it? It dosn't change the fact that Carlow's "high" growth is undesirable and unsustainable.

How is it "undesirable" and how is it a "fact"

road_high

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

And what about it? It dosn't change the fact that Carlow's "high" growth is undesirable and unsustainable.

And doesn't change the fact they actually live there and need services (despite your obvious wish they'd all just go away back towards Dublin) to reinforce some fantasy case that only WIT should be developed.

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Per capita. That hardly makes it the "ghost capital" does it?

And Carlow isn't the smallest county. Neither by size nor by population. I can provide a source for that fact if you want. You know what a source is?

It doesn't change the fact that its a black spot when it comes to ghost estates. Way ahead of anywhere else in the South East. The Hallmark of unsustainable growth and typical of the "Celtic Tiger" excess.

road_high

JaCrispy wrote: »

How is it "undesirable" and how is it a "fact"

...it's only undesirable from a waterford PoV as it takes greatly from the case for a sole university campus for the SE based in Waterford to be based entirely in a non Central part of the SE. Carlow is an obvious choice once the blue and white tinted glasses are taken off.

fuzzy dunlop

road_high wrote: »

And doesn't change the fact they actually live there and need services (despite your obvious wish they'd all just go away back towards Dublin) to reinforce some fantasy case that only WIT should be developed.

But they are reliant on Dublin and Kildare if they commute. This means Carlow is a dormitory county in relationship to Kildare and Dublin which is completely to the contrary of what you are claiming. And I never said only WIT should be developed.

fuzzy dunlop

road_high wrote: »

...it's only undesirable from a waterford PoV as it takes greatly from the case for a sole university campus for the SE based in Waterford to be based entirely in a non Central part of the SE. Carlow is an obvious choice once the blue and white tinted glasses are taken off.

No its only desirably from a Carlow point of view. Carlow was never marked for intensive development from a national policy perspective. Waterford has. The only reason it didn't happen is because of the beggar thy neighbor politics which you are promoting.

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

How is it "undesirable" and how is it a "fact"

Because it is on the periphery of two regions. Greater Dublin and the South East. A commuting population in Carlow reliant on Dublin flies in the face of all good planning principles.

road_high

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

But they are reliant on Dublin and Kildare if they commute. This means Carlow is a dormitory county in relationship to Kildare and Dublin which is completely to the contrary of what you are claiming. And I never said only WIT should be developed.

Lots commute for a while, then get a job or start a business locally. Therefore adding value to a place like Carlow. It's definitely not the entirely negative thing you appear to paint it to be here...it can even benefit Waterford as any population growth should be seen a boon to the South east, as these new people may even decide to go to Waterford for college, do business etc etc...