Realistically, at what age should you have bought your first home?

Michael D Not Higgins

Snickers Man wrote: »

Owning one's own house is not the norm in Europe. People are far more likely to rent throughout their lives. It's the sign of a modern advanced economy. Many people in basket case countries in Africa own their own houses. Little good it does them.

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

Jellybaby1

Just start small and look at cheaper areas. You never know what is possible until you try.

Atlantic Dawn

When I have an income of €100k I will be able to afford to buy but at the moment I will hold off until next year when prices collapse.

_Kaiser_

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

Same as that... working in Dublin (where most of the jobs are after all - especially in IT) means either paying ridiculous rents, or moving further out and commuting (so paying fuel/toll/additional wear and tear on the car.. unless you are prepared to spend hours on public transport!).

I'm 40 this year as well and (stupidly?) rejected the "free money" in the Good Times because I didn't WANT to spend my life commuting or in a poorly-built shoebox in the middle of nowhere, away from friends and family.
I then got into a relationship that didn't work out but that, and unemployment for a year, left me with debt anyway. As I now don't have 2 incomes to factor into an application my chances of getting a mortgage on my own (especially with these new rules!) for somewhere I'd WANT to live, AND still managing to pay my existing bills are pretty much nil.. even though I'm technically earning more than ever!

What I think I'll do is try and save instead and buy somewhere for cash on retirement when location isn't as important and if my personal circumstances change in the meantime then all the better and maybe I will be able to look at an alternative solution.

Sleepy

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

But I'm talking statistics here. Taking individual cases doesn't describe the whole. The graph from daft is showing 20-30%, with exceptional areas (SCD) up to 50% higher. If there are cases going up 100% then there are others only rising 10%, so saying houses are double 2012 prices is not showing the true story.

I see your point but statistics, by their nature are aggregations. In the better areas, prices in Dublin are rising by crazy amounts In the worst, they're hardly moving at all.

Not all of SCD is desirable so that 50% is masking increases far in excess of that were you to look at the figures at a more granular level. ted1 stated that "in many places" prices had gone up by 100%, not that they'd gone up by that amount on average. I suspect she's looking at the market in the same way I do: how is it behaving for property I'd actually want to buy rather than at a national / regional level.

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

The bit I've bolded is what's holding you back. Move into a house-share and you'd be far better able to put a deposit together. If you think it's difficult to save as a single, you'll never manage it with a partner & kids.

I'm in a similar situation in that my rent could easily cover a reasonable mortgage / maintenance / insurance etc. but am struggling to get a deposit together and, tbh, it's because I wasn't more careful with my money when I was single and in my twenties that I'll continue to struggle to do so for at least another 5/6 years.

_Kaiser_

Sleepy wrote: »

The bit I've bolded is what's holding you back. Move into a house-share and you'd be far better able to put a deposit together. If you think it's difficult to save as a single, you'll never manage it with a partner & kids.

I see your point myself but house-sharing in this country is typically a minefield. Renting in general is often a lottery as to whether it'll turn out ok (cause the whole sector generally isn't taken seriously by any of sides involved but rather treated as a "stepping stone" you have to "endure" on the road to ownership)

Plus, as someone who did share in my 20s, doing so when you get a bit older is not something you want to do - generally because people our age are "supposed" to have bought by now and speaking for myself, sharing with a bunch of pub-going/party hard 20-somethings would be the last thing I'd want!

These days peace and quiet and privacy are far more important.. I am getting old though!

seamus

John Mason wrote: »

but where do you live when you are on the state pension??

In council housing.

Buying yourself a nice house to retire in is a really bad idea if you don't have any other plans to back it up.

The amount of executor sales I've gone to where the property wouldn't meet council standards is quite incredible. Big family homes where the children all moved out 20 years ago and those left behind obviously didn't have the funds to make any changes in that time. Major internal and external work required, BER of G, which means they're spending a big chunk of their pension warming the place up, damp and mould and shabby kitchens.

Even as a retirement investment, many people find that far from being a meal ticket, the family home becomes a prison from which they can't escape. They want to sell and buy elsewhere, but in the absence of a mortgage they're going to need a significantly smaller place they can buy in cash, that requires zero work.
Ultimately this means moving further away from family, possibly into a property which cannot accommodate having grandchildren over, or which would require far too much travel, etc. So they stay where they are and struggle through because it's the only feasible option they have.

The Spider

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

I'm sick of this comparison to what Germany does, there's a mountain of reasons why Germans rent and we buy, the below link will explain it, and we have a long way to go to even come into 5% of the German mindset, so I'd make myself comfortable with the fact that in Ireland the accepted norm is ownership.

http://qz.com/167887/germany-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-homeownership-rates/

By the time of Germany’s unconditional surrender in May 1945, 20% of Germany’s housing stock was rubble. Some 2.25 million homes were gone. Another 2 million were damaged. A 1946 census showed an additional 5.5 million housing units were needed in what would ultimately become West Germany.

Germany’s housing wasn’t the only thing in tatters. The economy was a heap. Financing was nil and the currency was virtually worthless. (People bartered.) If Germans were going to have places to live, some sort of government program was the only way to build them.

karenalot

Bought my house at 23. Had pets, loved interior design and completely decorating to my own taste, having the odd party or ten and also heading off on very long holidays at a whim. I realised no landlord would put up with me so I got a hefty mortgage with the deposit coming from my 5 year SSIA savings.

I have no regrets but the responsibility wouldn't be for everyone at that age. I was lucky that I've always been very sensible with money, my spare rooms were always very rentable and over the years various lodgers have paid more than 60% of my mortgage and bills. Now at 32 and earning more I thankfully now have the luxury of having the house to myself and my partner.

magicmushroom

Sleepy wrote: »

The bit I've bolded is what's holding you back. Move into a house-share and you'd be far better able to put a deposit together. If you think it's difficult to save as a single, you'll never manage it with a partner & kids.

I'm in a similar situation in that my rent could easily cover a reasonable mortgage / maintenance / insurance etc. but am struggling to get a deposit together and, tbh, it's because I wasn't more careful with my money when I was single and in my twenties that I'll continue to struggle to do so for at least another 5/6 years.

Honestly - I'd rather rent for the rest of my life than house share.
NO WAY would I ever live with anyone (unless it was my partner or a family member) - I've done it in the past in my early twenties and it was as absolute nightmare, not something I'd like to repeat despite the money it would save me!

Addle

Bought at 30. Could have bought earlier but nothing in the local market suited me. Luckily for me, my house was for sale for a long time, and the price had reduced by a lot, by the time I was in a position to buy.
If I had bought earlier, my home would be in negative equity now. Not that it would matter as I hope I will be in my current home for life.

Being a single mortgage applicant is difficult.

I don't understand the concept of the 'property ladder' in Ireland, outside of the big cities anyways.

Sleepy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I see your point myself but house-sharing in this country is typically a minefield. Renting in general is often a lottery as to whether it'll turn out ok (cause the whole sector generally isn't taken seriously by any of sides involved but rather treated as a "stepping stone" you have to "endure" on the road to ownership)

I'd agree, it was a minefield, I had some awful house-shares in my early 20s but fell into a wonderful one that lasted almost 4 years before we all moved in with other halves etc.

magicmushroom wrote: »

Honestly - I'd rather rent for the rest of my life than house share.
NO WAY would I ever live with anyone (unless it was my partner or a family member) - I've done it in the past in my early twenties and it was as absolute nightmare, not something I'd like to repeat despite the money it would save me!

I can understand where you're coming from, at 34, I wouldn't want to be out looking for flatmates again but, if I were still single, tbh, I think I'd endure it for a few years in order to get a deposit together.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

Forget house buying. It's not for most of us any more.

I don't know one person who doesn't intend on buying their own house or building their own house. My group of friends are all late 20's - early 30's and there has been a big push of buying and building in the group in the last year so.

I cant imagine how someone could see their future being in rental accommodation.

Snickers Man wrote: »

Owning one's own house is not the norm in Europe.

The average percentage of home ownership across europe is close to 70%, that very much makes it the norm.

Michael D Not Higgins

The Spider wrote: »

I'm sick of this comparison to what Germany does, there's a mountain of reasons why Germans rent and we buy, the below link will explain it, and we have a long way to go to even come into 5% of the German mindset, so I'd make myself comfortable with the fact that in Ireland the accepted norm is ownership.

That's my point. I know the war and several other factors have influenced their housing culture, but I was only pointing to the current pressures, laws and tax regimes that have resulted from that culture.

Of course Ireland's default is ownership when we don't have comparable systems to encourage renting.

Tarzana2

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

Same, it's just not going to happen for me. So I need plan for my future accordingly. I haven't quite worked that one out yet.

I'm in a relationship, we live together. Marriage isn't on the cards, not yet anyway, so it's prudent to plan for what might happen if we break up. I hate the idea of latching onto someone in order to get on the property "ladder" anyway, and I think it probably happens a fair bit in this country! People seem mad for getting together and getting some property bought.

Mr_Muffin

I have always dreamed of having my own house but i now know that i never will and it does kinda get me down at times.

I am still young but i just don't see how it will ever be viable. They are just to expensive for me. Maybe in a few years i might win the lotto or something!

hawkwind23

I dont know if I would get a mortgage now , had two and made serious cash from them but very much doubt ill get another aged 45.
Firstly employment has changed , jobs are transient now and jobs for life are gone.
Same with lifetime relationships.
So before aged 25 and starting a new family with a secure job , its a no brainer.
Now with so much change a mortgage may not suit.

Renting is so much more flexible and easy but the problem is its seriously overpriced!

It really is situation dependant , your not a failure if you dont own your own house

I guess my advice is to look 10 years ahead , if you can keep everything together you "should" get your initial costs back and some more and that beats renting, anything after that is a bonus and soon your halfway to actually owning anything

bmm

It's all a bit of a guessing game. It might take 35 years to pay a mortgage so you might die before you have it paid off versus you pay your mortgage off in 20 years and you live to age 105 ! Score!!!

MouseTail

Where is all this Council housing that posters assume they will be able to move into during their retirement. More likely they will be stuck on RA, or whatever the equivalent will be then once their savings have been exhausted, with all the accompanying insecurity and hassle.

Lau2976

I think it really depends on the person. I'm 24 and hoping to buy this year after 3 years of renting. I'm self employed so finding somewhere decent willing to take me on as a tenant can sometimes be problematic and I don't plan to move from dublin for more then a few months at a time ( as my work dictates) so having somewhere to return to other then my parents house is a big factor in it for me.

I'd probably rent for the freedom if it was logistically possible though.

Lia_lia

I don't know if I ever want to purchase a house. I'm 26 now. Many of my colleagues are currently purchasing houses, they all seem to be between the ages of 30-35. Could probably save for the deposit, but wouldn't be easy at all. Especially when paying so much for rent.

I have noticed that a lot of people I know get help (or the whole deposit) from Mammy and Daddy. Never really understood how people afforded deposits before, but this explains it. All well and good if you have rich parents, but not me!

Tarzana2

Lia_lia wrote: »

I have noticed that a lot of people I know get help (or the whole deposit) from Mammy and Daddy. Never really understood how people afforded deposits before, but this explains it. All well and good if you have rich parents, but not me!

Same, even my parents offered me money, I wouldn't take it, I know they can't afford it. They own their house outright but have barely any income coming and have no pension plans so need all their savings!

slippin_jimmy

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

its a lot easier to evict a tenant ( who wont pay or is anti social ) in germany than in ireland

tenants in ireland have far more protection than they think , its just the system is lacking in transparency and no real proper tenancy framework exists , its one big grey area

slippin_jimmy

rents in dublin are not especially high by comparison with other european capitals

lisasimpson

Was hoping to have bought by 30 hasnt happened.v tough to do if your a single applicant and dont have the option to move home.have a sizable deposit but under the new rules its time the salary is holding me back.ill just stay saving. But still enjoying life too.i just think im glad im not stuck with a hse in massive negative equity with x partners like a few people i know

Michael D Not Higgins

slippin_jimmy wrote: »

its a lot easier to evict a tenant ( who wont pay or is anti social ) in germany than in ireland

tenants in ireland have far more protection than they think , its just the system is lacking in transparency and no real proper tenancy framework exists , its one big grey area

Takes up to a year in Germany according to one source I read. Not that far off some of the times I've seen around here.

slippin_jimmy

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Takes up to a year in Germany according to one source I read. Not that far off some of the times I've seen around here.

if your brazen enough , you can drag things out for years in this country , the whole area is very ambigious

Michael D Not Higgins

slippin_jimmy wrote: »

if your brazen enough , you can drag things out for years in this country , the whole area is very ambigious

That's not true. The area is not ambiguous, the PRTB process is slow (which is improving somewhat). The average figure for eviction in Germany wouldn't be far off what we have here so it's not like people in Germany aren't being stubborn with the courts too.

The fact is that the tenancy laws and tax regime make it much easier to rent there, which, if some people are suggesting we should follow a larger renting model, we would have to emulate to encourage it. If we're deciding owning is out of reach for a larger group of people than the last generation, the government need to plan for that and legislate for it.

lukesmom

Hollister11 wrote: »

If you sold now, how much would you be up, if any ?

From what we bought it for and an identical house on our road for sale then €40,000.

BetterThanThou

I personally think it's whenever you have a reason to, I know someone who's very successful, in his late 40s, could probably buy a house out of the money sitting in his bank account, but he has no interest in doing so. He's single and enjoys traveling, he lives in Ireland now, next year he'll probably live in some other country, if he were to buy a house he'd either have to be tied down to it, leave it unused, or rent it out. Not to mention the issues of entering such a long-term commitment when getting a mortgage, I know many people who have either already lost their house or are clinging onto it, because they're not as capable of paying the mortgage as they once were. Buying your own house definitely has it's benefits, but I don't think it's something someone has to do, I wouldn't bother unless I was in a long-term relationship with someone I knew I'd spend the rest of my life with.