Realistically, at what age should you have bought your first home?

Shelga

I'm 27, currently living in England. Never had any interest in buying property until maybe the last year, and only now that I'm starting to think how nice it would be to live alone!

People I work with are obsessed with getting on the property ladder, and what they don't understand is that for me it's a real crossroads decision as it basically means committing myself to a life in the UK or moving home. I'm leaning towards returning to Ireland, but even if I do, I don't see myself feeling settled enough to buy for at least 1-2 years. All my friends have emigrated and it would take a fair amount of readjustment to feel settled again. Probably wouldn't return to my home city of Dublin as it's too expensive, tough but that's life, plenty of other nice places.

The rent I pay at the moment is quite reasonable, and would only pay the interest on any mortgage I'd get right now. The money spent on surveys, solicitors' fees etc, also equates to around six months worth of rent. Isn't the standard advice to stay in any property you buy for 2-3 years at least, to recoup these costs?

I can't commit to that right now, so I won't be buying. You lose a significant amount of flexibility when you buy. My new plan is to continue saving, and start renting alone on my 29th birthday if I still don't know where I want to settle :P

Buy when it's right for you! And yes, people can fall into the trap of missing out on too much in their 20s to put absolutely everything into buying a house.

Mrs OBumble

MouseTail wrote: »

Where is all this Council housing that posters assume they will be able to move into during their retirement. More likely they will be stuck on RA, or whatever the equivalent will be then once their savings have been exhausted, with all the accompanying insecurity and hassle.

Councils have separate funding and housing for elderly / disabled.

Still big waiting lists for families with a disabled person. less so for 1-2 brm elderly flats.

Some aren't pleasant places to live (eg street-level in the middle of Galway city!), but better than private sector rentals for some.

eviltwin

I don't think there is a right time. I bought at 24, I'd been saving for a few years because I had a growing child and we needed our space. My brother was in his 40's when he bought, I have friends renting and some still at home. Depends on your circumstances, what you can afford and ultimately what you want.

lukesmom

BetterThanThou wrote: »

I personally think it's whenever you have a reason to, I know someone who's very successful, in his late 40s, could probably buy a house out of the money sitting in his bank account, but he has no interest in doing so. He's single and enjoys traveling, he lives in Ireland now, next year he'll probably live in some other country, if he were to buy a house he'd either have to be tied down to it, leave it unused, or rent it out. Not to mention the issues of entering such a long-term commitment when getting a mortgage, I know many people who have either already lost their house or are clinging onto it, because they're not as capable of paying the mortgage as they once were. Buying your own house definitely has it's benefits, but I don't think it's something someone has to do, I wouldn't bother unless I was in a long-term relationship with someone I knew I'd spend the rest of my life with.

For security purposes though personally speaking we rented for five long painful years. I say that because we couldn't put our own stamp on it and there's a lot to be said for having your own home not to mention leaving something behind if you have kids.

MouseTail

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Councils have separate funding and housing for elderly / disabled.

Currently they may have, but there will be an age dependency ratio crisis when people currently aged 30-50 retires. People not taking action to meet their housing needs on retirement, be that buying or building up a good pension or savings pot are very shortsighted.

MouseTail

Why would you want to move into some dingy council flat when you retire anyway, its pretty much the last place most people would want to go, moving away from where they have been living for many years, away from friends, neighbors or other family members etc. People spend years in a house and have it up to the standard they want and paid off before they retire so they dont need to worry about accommodation bar maintenance when they retire. Obviously they would be foolish not to have a pension of some sort or other income source also for day to day living etc.

The vast majority would also plan on passing on the house to one of their children rather than selling it.

MouseTail wrote: »

People not taking action to meet their housing needs on retirement, be that buying or building up a good pension or savings pot are very shortsighted.

I would change that "or" to an "and".

fricatus

MouseTail wrote: »

Currently they may have, but there will be an age dependency ratio crisis when people currently aged 30-50 retires. People not taking action to meet their housing needs on retirement, be that buying or building up a good pension or savings pot are very shortsighted.

Paola Fierce Ballplayer wrote: »

I would change that "or" to an "and".

Either way, you're both right about people not making provision for their future. People who are extolling the virtues of renting and the "freedom" and "flexibility" it brings (all true of course) still need to have a plan around where the rent money is going to come from when they're 85.

Even those of us who will have the mortgage well paid off by then need to consider the costs of maintenance, property tax, etc. Many years ago there was a tax on "imputed rent" paid by people that owned their own homes, i.e. if you saved £200 a month because you now owned your house and didn't have to rent, you paid tax on the money you were "saving" (ignoring altogether the fact that you'd slaved to buy the place in the first place...), sort of like how you pay BIK these days if you've a company car.

Imagine if that came back! :eek:

Shhhhh... nobody mention that to Enda or Michael.

Snickers Man

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

You're not wrong, and I would remind you of what I said in the last few lines of my post.

"What we need are regulations and practices to reflect the fact that, in the cities at any rate, renting rather than buying will become the norm. "

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

Well of course it isn't but who believes in magic any more anyway?

What's important is that we have the right debate about the correct issues which will be around things like security of supply, security of tenure, and the rights and necessities for a reasonable return on investment. These are all contradictory forces but need to be balanced.

It should NOT be all about "How can little Johnny afford his own house and how can we rig the market to guarantee the enrichment of owner occupiers?"

We are too preoccupied with an ERRONEOUS version of our history which says that the only way to beat the brutal absentee landlord is for the common man to own his own land and his own home. This has led to abominations such as Noel O'Gara and more recently the New Land League each claiming to be the moral and spiritual heirs to Michael Davitt as they behave more like the worst of the absentee landlords from the bad old days.

Davitt would have beaten each of them to death with his one good arm. Peasant proprietorship was never his solution anyway.

Thargor

If worst comes to worst and I was living alone with no house in 30 or 40 years time Id just buy a mobile home, pretty much luxury living for 20k, I have a couple of places I could put it free of charge aswell.

Starshadow

As others have said,

You should buy or indeed rent in relation to your circumstances. Myself and my wife move around constantly, i get bored, so does she she off we go. A mortgage would be a death sentence for us. To others its the goal, don't think of it as a race but as an option.

Edit: Having always rented, the one problem I encounter is that a large amount...I'm talking 90% of places I have seen and not rented were hell holes you pay premium for, unfortunately this country doesn't enforce proper standards for rented property and as such you encounter a lot of thrash.

NewDirection

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

Security is a problem for renters and landlords. You could sign a 5 year lease here in Ireland, but a tenant can still leave whenever they want once they give their minimum notice irregardless what it says on the lease.

I'd love to find one of these long term tenants that are always referred to on the forums. I'd happily rent out a house for 10 years, locked down, at a nice 2% per annum rent increase if I could find someone to rent to.

skallywag

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

What do people think is the latest possible time to buy your first home?

Primarily depends on:

1 - How much money you have.
2 - How much money you still need.
3 - How affordable & likely it is for you to pay back the money from 2 over the remainder of your working career.
4 - Your ability to convince your bank of 3.

The Dark Side

Before you hit 30 ideally.

Certainly before 35.

moxin

The Dark Side wrote: »

Before you hit 30 ideally.

Certainly before 35.

Not really. One can buy at a point they are comfortable with. Why buy at aged 30 on a huge mortgage when at age 37 they will have a huge deposit and small mortgage for the rest of their lives?

Factors like the above play into it, cash is king.

Electric Sheep

moxin wrote: »

Not really. One can buy at a point they are comfortable with. Why buy at aged 30 on a huge mortgage when at age 37 they will have a huge deposit and small mortgage for the rest of their lives?

Factors like the above play into it, cash is king.

And when you are older and making more money you can afford to get a shorter term mortgage. 30 year mortgages are for fools.

murph226

33 here just waiting for the keys.

professore

The right time was about 5 years ago.

professore

fricatus wrote: »

Either way, you're both right about people not making provision for their future. People who are extolling the virtues of renting and the "freedom" and "flexibility" it brings (all true of course) still need to have a plan around where the rent money is going to come from when they're 85.

Even those of us who will have the mortgage well paid off by then need to consider the costs of maintenance, property tax, etc. Many years ago there was a tax on "imputed rent" paid by people that owned their own homes, i.e. if you saved £200 a month because you now owned your house and didn't have to rent, you paid tax on the money you were "saving" (ignoring altogether the fact that you'd slaved to buy the place in the first place...), sort of like how you pay BIK these days if you've a company car.

Imagine if that came back! :eek:

Shhhhh... nobody mention that to Enda or Michael.

When you're 85 you will most likely be in a nursing home paying €1200 per week.

professore

Probably only people who want to stay somewhere long term and raise a family should buy, or people who can buy with a small mortgage. Those that have to work flat out for 30+ years to make the mortgage shouldn't buy, this is worse than renting. If you can't pay at year 10 you lose your house and are saddled with debt: not the case when renting.

Chris_5339762

Electric Sheep wrote: »

And when you are older and making more money you can afford to get a shorter term mortgage. 30 year mortgages are for fools.

I took a 35 year mortgage and will have it paid off in less than 10. Sure, I'm paying slightly higher interest than I need to, but if times get tougher I can stop overpaying and bring the monthly outgoings down for a period. Gives that bit of flexibility and its working nicely for me.

hopgog

professore wrote: »

The right time was about 5 years ago.

Depends I bought in 2004, there wasn't a huge drop in equity for me but I have a tracker, it would cost more per month if I bought at the lowest point due to svr, so even though I paid more for the place it will cost less overall due to interest also I would not got a mortage in 2011 even with the same wage as 2004.

Electric Sheep

Electric Sheep wrote: »

And when you are older and making more money you can afford to get a shorter term mortgage. 30 year mortgages are for fools.

Id disagree on that, get the longest possible term mortgage you can and overpay on it and if a time comes down the line where money is short or rates go up etc you can fall back down to a much lower monthly payment while you get back on your feet.

Elessar

I'm 29 and the thought of getting a mortgage sends shivers down my spine. Then again, I'm the only child and the family home will go to me eventually. A few people having been putting thoughts in my head about buying a small place and renting it out, and having that as an option to live and/or a nice income earner for retirement....

NIMAN

....... when you can afford it.

hattoncracker

I'd love to be able to buy a house For a lot of reasons, mainly because my husband has a disability and i think that the stress and uncertainty of having no real regulation or permanent way of living is just a bit much.

It's never going to happen for a myriad of reasons. I'm a lot younger than my husband and I'm just starting out in a new career. He's in the civil service for over twenty years but with the amount he pays out on taxes and pension levy, even if it wasn't for the conditions (MS), we would never get anything.

At the moment we are renting a house, we had no heating for the entire winter due to a shoddy repair of a burner that exploded, works started two weeks ago to fix the burner and the cleanser they used on the top soil have left us with no water for over two weeks because it got into our well.

Our rent is way more than a standard mortgagE. With our need for a specialised housing we are stuck here, and we are priced out of Dublin and we commute from Monasterboice to Dublin city centre now. I wouldn't even know where to look about applying for a council place for us and I don't think we would even qualify and I just don't know what we are going to do in the future when my husbands condition deteriorates.

A lotto win is what we are banking on!!

hopgog

hattoncracker wrote: »

I'd love to be able to buy a house For a lot of reasons, mainly because my husband has a disability and i think that the stress and uncertainty of having no real regulation or permanent way of living is just a bit much.

It's never going to happen for a myriad of reasons. I'm a lot younger than my husband and I'm just starting out in a new career. He's in the civil service for over twenty years but with the amount he pays out on taxes and pension levy, even if it wasn't for the conditions (MS), we would never get anything.

At the moment we are renting a house, we had no heating for the entire winter due to a shoddy repair of a burner that exploded, works started two weeks ago to fix the burner and the cleanser they used on the top soil have left us with no water for over two weeks because it got into our well.

Our rent is way more than a standard mortgagE. With our need for a specialised housing we are stuck here, and we are priced out of Dublin and we commute from Monasterboice to Dublin city centre now. I wouldn't even know where to look about applying for a council place for us and I don't think we would even qualify and I just don't know what we are going to do in the future when my husbands condition deteriorates.

A lotto win is what we are banking on!!

Quit the job an go on career allowance and get a council house, you will be top priority. Enjoy what good time you have with your husband now rather then struggling to work to pay rent on a bad place.

Your quality of like will be way better and will have more good time with your husband

SpaceTime

I think I'm going to miss the boat on buying in Ireland due to being self employed with a fluctuating income and a relationship that broke up, so I'm going to emigrate somewhere I can rent more pleasantly.

The housing market here is crazy and always will be crazy and I'm not going to get bogged down in it. A lot of my friends were very badly burned by the crash. I'm sick of Irish and British landlords too. Everything's about short term and screwing the maximum rent out of the worst property and you can't really rent unfurnished or even decorate to your taste.

I'm plotting my move for a while and once the right job comes along, I'm off, most likely permanently.

All I'll say is that the Irish political class and a good chunk of the population who vote for them only see housing as a financial instrument and that they treat the rental option as some kind of stopgap short term thing or as a second class housing situation.

Housing policy here isn't great and I don't think it ever will be.

Ray Palmer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

For people who don't have a private pension that lets them afford private rental, the answer is (and has been for a long time) "in a council flat".
.

This not the case in reality for most people and is a fall back for those who can't afford. Your suggestion is to spend your money and not plan for your future. Fine if you want to be means tested and they decide you are eligible for a property. Property that is limited in supply and some of which is in very undesirable areas. It also completely relies on others supporting the rest of the market so this can happen. It just can't be an option for everybody.
Don't get me wrong some of these flats are in great locations and I would love to think I could get one of them. The reality is as there will not be enough the elderly with low income and no property it will be landlords or investment companies making money.
There is very sane solution for lots of housing issues. Encourage the elderly in large houses to down size. Covert some of the large houses in the same area to suit more compact elderly living. Families move into the freed up houses utilizing schools, community centres, sports fields etc... nearby(they are becoming underused). Ideally it should be children of the people moving out moving in. Better for communities and we could get much better use of the housing stock.Property tax management could even help. If you really think about it the potential to revitalize all areas would be immense.

riclad

AS soon as you can get a mortgage,maybe 2 or 3 years after you start working.
IF you want to buy in an urban area, city where price,s are rising.
You might wait a few years in a rural area ,
where prices are not rising.
Obviously buying from 200-2007 was a bad idea for some people,
eg i know someone bought in 2003, apartment for 130k, now worth 60k.
The price of houses may rise by 40k,
and you saved 30k, and also you paid rent while you were waiting to buy a house.

CarpeDiem85

I'm aiming to have my first mortgage at about 35 but if I buy on my own, this is going to push my retirement age up substantially. I had the opportunity to buy my grandmothers house in south Dublin when I was 24 and in a way, I wish I had. My life would have turned out very differently if I did. The price of that house has gone up by at least 100k since then. If I didn't have my child, I think now would have been the perfect time for me to buy but I don't have the money at the minute.