Vaccines question

gar32

Lazygirl. Just to put you at easy my children and I live in Germany

micosoft

gar32 wrote: »

Lazygirl. Just to put you at easy my children and I live in Germany

Seems to be the new defence. How do you know that Lazygirl does not live in Germany also?

pwurple

Unbiased?? wrote: »

I have to laugh at the poster who said to do a course by Paul offit. I don't think you could get more biased if you tried. Dr Offit whose income comes from vaccines, who has his own vaccine

He's an immunologist. That is indeed what immunologists do for a living, they create vaccines. Who is better qualified to discuss how they work except for the people who create them?

lazygal

skallywag wrote: »

Has separating the vaccines been shown to lower the frequency of autism?

I asked my GP about this. That's when he told me of the practice he ran a mile from. His reading had shown that the efficacy of spreading out the jabs isn't the same as the combined shots for a variety of reasons, one of which can be lack of parental follow up.

lazygal

micosoft wrote: »

Seems to be the new defence. How do you know that Lazygirl does not live in Germany also?

I wonder do that poster#s children ever travel by air, subjecting others or being at risk of what's circulated through air systems on planes? Or travel on a ferry or train to other countries, coming into contact with others en route?

Sligo1

Rosy Posy wrote: »

We choose not to vaccinate our children, which tbh is something that I tend to keep to myself online at least as there is a lot of vitriol out there.

Rosy posy, just as a matter of interest (and I'm not "attacking" you here). But why do you keep the fact that you haven't vaccinated your children to yourself? Do you not think parents who do vaccinate their kids should be allowed to make a judgment call as to whether they want to allow their kids in your children's company? I understand you might think this may isolate you or your children in some way... But don't you think that as you have made yor decision against vaccines, that you should allow other parents to make parenting decisions in regards to the safety of their children associating with yours? "Are your kids vaccinated?" Isn't really a question that comes up in parent to parent day-to-day conversations and I'm sure you would be honest if you were ever asked? But do you not think it's important to make others aware of this fact if you know they are pro-vaccination and want to keep their kids away From any potential threats to these illnesses? This is a genuine question btw, and I'd be really interested to know.

Neyite

Mod:

Unbiased, you only need to submit your post once for approval, as soon as a mod sees it, they will activate it. Alternatively, you may wish to register an account and that way your posts are visible immediately.

skallywag

lazygal wrote: »

I asked my GP about this. That's when he told me of the practice he ran a mile from. His reading had shown that the efficacy of spreading out the jabs isn't the same as the combined shots for a variety of reasons, one of which can be lack of parental follow up.

Thanks for that info.

I am still left wondering though is there any genuine evidence that separating the vaccines will help reduces incidents of autism. It understood this to be somehow implied from DublinWriter's post.

gar32

So this is a war on diseases. The kids are in the fight and there a losses on both sides. There a lists of people who have sick or worse from vaccines. Doctors have systems in place to report side effects. I feel a lot of children have sicknesses after vaccination but its put down to something going around.

Someone help me with the maths here. The lottery is won 52 times a year. How likely are we to win? Case numbers of vaccine related diseases a low thanks to vacancies. Number of children with side effect as per vaccine manufacturers documents seem high in comparison. 1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine.

Its not a clear a case to just get all vaccine. With each one is risk. The mine field of info is not helping me.

gar32

micosoft wrote: »

Seems to be the new defence. How do you know that Lazygirl does not live in Germany also?

She doesn't live near me. Just read her past post if your interested

skallywag

gar32 wrote: »

Someone help me with the maths here. The lottery is won 52 times a year. How likely are we to win?

The chances of predicting 6 numbers correctly from a set of 45 is roughly 1 in 8 million. But I do not appear to be getting your point about how this is relevant to the discussion?

gar32 wrote: »

1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine

Can you please point us towards your source of information on this?

Sligo1

gar32 wrote: »

Someone help me with the maths here. The lottery is won 52 times a year. How likely are we to win? Case numbers of vaccine related diseases a low thanks to vacancies. Number of children with side effect as per vaccine manufacturers documents seem high in comparison. 1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine.

Its not a clear a case to just get all vaccine. With each one is risk. The mine field of info is not helping me.

You acknowledge the fact that these terrible illnesses are of low incidence due to vaccines which is a good start. But just because they are of low incidence now that does not mean we can just stop vaccinating. Well not at least until they are completely eradicated (eg. Small pox). A good example would be measles. This was nearly eradicated a few years ago. But due to people not vaccinating there has now been recent outbreaks.

Also to note, perhaps you are looking at the short term effects here of not vaccinating when the likelihood of contracting a disease is quite low at the minute. All it takes is a bunch of people with these same ideas as yourself to contribute to other outbreaks of preventable diseases. And these may not occur in our lifetime but later on. It's difficult to perhaps see this now as I say while diseases are of quite low incidence. But what about your children's children (your grandkids) or your great grandkids. years down the line of everyone decides not to vaccinate and begin to share yor ideas... The results could be catastrophic! We could be back in those terrible times years ago when so so many children were dying of these terrible illnesses. And this is a possibility if more people choose not to vaccinate. It has been proven that vaccination will prevent these times Of old. And you yourself have even acknowledged this. But just because you think the coast is clear now... You really need tonthink outside the box. What about your children's children....

ThisRegard

A lot doesn't make sense. OP said they're not taking info from the internet, but that's exactly what's happening. And that they're not happy with info from their GP, but their OH is one?

gar32

skallywag wrote: »

The chances of
predicting 6 numbers correctly from a set of 45 is roughly 1 in 8 million. But I do not appear to be getting your point about how this is relevant to the discussion?



Can you please point us towards your source of information on this?

Come on you have Google too.

I Googled vaccines official leflet

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=tqUaVdjoC4znaJD1gvAJ&url=http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf&ved=0CCgQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNG1yMl07u3zE9T_P0WSORzTCUJg1A&sig2=25BdMVT0FKNadNU9wR0ztw

Sligo1

ThisRegard wrote: »

A lot doesn't make sense. OP said they're not taking info from the internet, but that's exactly what's happening. And that they're not happy with info from their GP, but their OH is one?

OPs OH is not a GP. Rosy Posys (another poster) OH is .

ThisRegard

Sligo1 wrote: »

OPs OH is not a GP. Rosy Posys (another poster) OH is .

Ah! Tis all very confusing!!

skallywag

gar32 wrote: »

Come on you have Google too.

I Googled vaccines official leflet

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=tqUaVdjoC4znaJD1gvAJ&url=http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf&ved=0CCgQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNG1yMl07u3zE9T_P0WSORzTCUJg1A&sig2=25BdMVT0FKNadNU9wR0ztw

Where in this document is it saying that '1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine' ?

LegacyUser

gar32 wrote: »

Lazygirl. Just to put you at easy my children and I live in Germany

That explains a great deal. The anti-vaccination movement there is big and strong, frighteningly so. Every single point you raised is textbook anti-vaccination.

I hope for your or rather your children's sake you don't live in/plan to go to Berlin where there is currently a huge outbreak of the measles. One little boy is dead already.

If you speak German, you should therefore be well aware of the answers to ALL of the points you have raised given the current media coverage in Germany due to this very outbreak. You don't need the internet. TV, radio, papers - they all go into all the details, over and over and over again. If you didn't get your answers by now, I honestly doubt you will here.

PS. I'm German and find the Irish in general much more resilient to the whole anti-vaccination-claptrap. Long may it last!

micosoft

Really simple answer here. Unless you can show your child's Vaccination Cert's you shouldn't get Children's Allowance. Quid pro quo - put other peoples children at risk you don't get social payments. This would eliminate all but the most rabid anti vaccinators.

Having worked in the developing world I have seen these diseases first hand. I am appalled by those who reject their social obligation to society and their own offspring.

SF12

As a matter of interest OP, if you decided to go on holidays to somewhere that required vaccines against malaria, tetanus, Hepatitus etc (like South America, Asia etc),....would you vaccinate your kids then?And would you vaccinate yourself?

pwurple

micosoft wrote: »

Having worked in the developing world I have seen these diseases first hand. I am appalled by those who reject their social obligation to society and their own offspring.

It is interesting that vaccination is so good, that it has actually become a victim of it's own success. The memory of how bad these diseases are is completely gone in a couple of generations.

The saddest example ever of "First World Problems".

cyning

From my point of view, having a child who gets sick after vaccinations, I (and either of her GPs, the nurse, my Paedeatrician and her ENT specialist (relevant because she normally gets ear infections or tonsilitis) ) think it is still safer for her to be vaccinated than not. There's a mumps outbreak in Kerry at the moment. I am terrified at the thoughts of her picking it up. She isn't strong, and quite frankly it makes me sick to my stomach at the thought of her picking it up.

I'm waiting for them to get chicken pox at the moment after being exposed. It means they can't see their grandad for 3 weeks because all the anti rejection drugs etc after a heart transplant makes him immunocompromised. He's 17 years post transplant now so isn't as strong as he used to be either. If one of them gets it and the other doesn't it will be another 3 weeks after the 1st ones spots scab over before we can see him again. If we were exposed to measles etc and brought it into the house... Mumps can be a 12-25 day incubation period.

I actually don't hold as strong opinions as some here do... I do believe anti vaxxers think they are doing the best for their kids. The problem I have, is that that decision could really awfully affect my family. I just think if you have any doubts read: most credible peer reviewed papers supports vaccination. National health services support it. I just think the risks of not vaccinating are far too high.

LegacyUser

apologies neyite for duplicate posts.

very interesting piece here on how having mumps may actually decrease your risk of ovarian cancer.

http://www.ovariancancer.org/2010/06/25/mumps-and-ovarian-cancer-modern-interpretation-of-an-historic-association/

skallywag

unbiased?? wrote: »

very interesting piece here on how having mumps may actually decrease your risk of ovarian cancer

I would rank this up there with the smoking may prevent alzheimer's topic ... i.e. may well be true but still certainly not an argument in favour of smoking!

LegacyUser

i think if someone disregards a piece of research without, it seems, even reading the paper, checking funding sources and authors then we really have a problem.

There is many research papers showing having had measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox decreases risk of many different cancers and brain tumors.
here is some, please read them, subject them to analysis, check the authors etc. There is many more available for anyone to find if they are interested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21792750

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22017482

http://cancerimmunolres.aacrjournals.org/content/2/3/263.full


Vaccines are an extremely important part of healthcare but we are wrong if we think that scientists know it all, in fact there are many aspects of our immune system which we know little about. Thankfully science keeps going to find out what we dont know. We are learning how previous "facts" are now incorrect and constantly improving our knowledge and healthcare practices due to new research explaining previously unknowns and putting right previous mistakes. That is the nature of science.

Here in Ireland we have very high uptake of the vaccine schedule, all vaccines on it meet or exceed herd immunity levels. Most cases of say measles, mumps which are now occurring are in older age groups suggesting vaccine immunity has worn off, the small number of children who them get these illnesses probably haven't gained adequate immunity from the vaccine or were vaccinated. All of this info can be found on hpsc.ie which lists cases of infectious diseases, its worth noting that not all cases listed have been confirmed by a lab so there is a margin of error, you should also take into account cases which have not been diagnosed or reported to the hpsc by a GP

LegacyUser

A previous poster mentioned increased risk with the 6in1 vaccine, another poster asked for evidence of this. Here is an article explaining http://www.indiamedicaltimes.com/2015/01/14/adverse-events-caused-by-infanrix-hexa-vaccine-results-in-69-deaths/

https://autismoevaccini.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/vaccin-dc3a9cc3a8s.pdf

LegacyUser

post 56 should read vaccinated not vaccinated if it could be changed please

children who them get these illnesses probably haven't gained adequate immunity from the vaccine or were UNvaccinated.

pwurple

On mumps outbreaks, I know in the cases I've seen in my own family, it's a hangover from wakefield. I didn't get MMR, either did most of my similarly aged cousins. We were all born around that time. One of my cousins (male) got it , with the unfortunate fertility consequences.


On the autism correlation, let me just put this graph out there, to illustrate the difference between causation and correlation.

lazygal

Wakefield's research was published in 1998. I know when I was born (early 80s) the big thing was e-numbers and additives so my parents went all out for healthy eating and homemade stuff. Those born in 1998 will now be the ones starting families. There are myriad things you don't want to be at risk of as a pregnant woman. I hope people make sure their immune systems are vaccine ready.

skallywag

unbiased?? wrote: »

i think if someone disregards a piece of research without, it seems, even reading the paper, checking funding sources and authors then we really have a problem.

I'm not doubting your facts at all, and I am sure that they are indeed correct.

But can this be used as a justification for the serious harm that comes to some children through diseases they contract because their parents refuse to immunize them? I do not think so.