Vaccines question

gar32

proVac wrote: »

That explains a great deal. The anti-vaccination movement there is big and strong, frighteningly so. Every single point you raised is textbook anti-vaccination.

I hope for your or rather your children's sake you don't live in/plan to go to Berlin where there is currently a huge outbreak of the measles. One little boy is dead already.

If you speak German, you should therefore be well aware of the answers to ALL of the points you have raised given the current media coverage in Germany due to this very outbreak. You don't need the internet. TV, radio, papers - they all go into all the details, over and over and over again. If you didn't get your answers by now, I honestly doubt you will here.

PS. I'm German and find the Irish in general much more resilient to the whole anti-vaccination-claptrap. Long may it last!

I am Irish but living in German and you may have not read the post well. I will be getting my Children Vaccines I am all for them but feel after looking at more information then I can handle that later by a year or 2 is better. I have read about effects on the brain and seem after 3 years old is best for that. But with measles (50 cases) just 7 km from me I need to get that sooner then planed.

I am not ANTI VAC!!!!!


I am a concerned parent who just didn't follow like a sheep. I have worked in a vaccine manufacturing company, know people with children who had life changing side effects and just want the best for my children. Anti Vac bashing seems to be done by people who have been hard done by or have seen it sick kids. The other side is also the case. I want to be in the middle and keep mine and all kids safe from sickness. Blindly following what government and there plans without thinking about it is not for me.

Why do different countries have different plans ?
I know the risk and chose to delay so I can understand plan and keep my kids as safe and as healthy as possible.

gar32

micosoft wrote: »

Really simple answer here. Unless you can show your child's Vaccination Cert's you shouldn't get Children's Allowance. Quid pro quo - put other peoples children at risk you don't get social payments. This would eliminate all but the most rabid anti vaccinators.

Having worked in the developing world I have seen these diseases first hand. I am appalled by those who reject their social obligation to society and their own offspring.

Money is no object to me when my children health is at stake

Sligo1

gar32 wrote: »

Money is no object to me when my children health is at steak

Stake not steak. Sorry I had to say it.... Gave me a lol the way I read it...

gar32

SF12 wrote: »

As a matter of interest OP, if you decided to go on holidays to somewhere that required vaccines against malaria, tetanus, Hepatitus etc (like South America, Asia etc),....would you vaccinate your kids then?And would you vaccinate yourself?

I would not go with Babies as I have now but when they are older off course. I think most of the vaccines are great but just not for a baby that is just getting the systems up to speed with all the usual bacteria around.

LegacyUser

So you see that there are benefits to getting these illnesses and of course there is negatives too. Every person weighs risk/benefit differently and so people who choose not to vaccinte should not be targeted for choosing not too. I have come across some parents who don't vaccinate and they are some of the most informed parents on vaccines i know and have thought me a thing or two. There is a massive amount we dont know about these diseases and there positive and negative outcomes to our health. We keep on learning and discovering new things which is why I think it is wrong to totally dismiss the 'anti vax movement' we must always be open to learning and changing our ways of thinking about disease and health.

With regards vaccine schedule, there is many different ones throughout the world so it's difficult to believe that delaying or different schedule will have many negative effects

ThisRegard

gar32 wrote: »

I would not go with Babies as I have now but when they are older off course. I think most of the vaccines are great but just not for a baby that is just getting the systems up to speed with all the usual bacteria around.

You mean when they're most likely to catch something?

gar32

ThisRegard wrote: »

You mean when they're most likely to catch something?

I would not go there I was only say if I was. I like Europe for Holidays

Cabaal

gar32 wrote: »

I would not go with Babies as I have now but when they are older off course. I think most of the vaccines are great but just not for a baby that is just getting the systems up to speed with all the usual bacteria around.

The usual bacteria etc around includes the stuff that vaccinations protect against,

Vaccinations help get the system up to speed to protect against stuff that can deform, cause complications or even kill.

Satori Rae

As a nurse my knowledge of studying years of science and reading medical reports is......vaccinations do not cause autism. ...this has been disproved years ago, it was made up by a docter who got struck off for lying about the link between vaccinations and autism and stealing children's blood without the consent of the parents.

Any seriously bad reaction in which a vaccination can cause is anaphylaxis (worst case scenario) this happens statically one in every hundred thousand child all staff are trained to counteract this quickly to ensure safety of the child.

No child has ever died or been paralyzed from a vaccine.

Vaccinations are needed to help protect your child from getting a virus that could normally kill them.

A vaccination works by making antibodies to help fight and resist said virus when or if your child comes into contact with it.....this does not mean your child will never get meseals or mumps it lessens the chances of getting them in the first place and reduces the risk of your child actually dying.

To advocate false information and slam use of vaccines is careless and spreading unscientific data!

Also sorry if I speak/write passionately I would never want a child being critically sick over misinformation or a parent going through that.

gar32

Satori Rae wrote: »

As a nurse my knowledge of studying years of science and reading medical reports is......vaccinations do not cause autism. ...this has been disproved years ago, it was made up by a docter who got struck off for lying about the link between vaccinations and autism and stealing children's blood without the consent of the parents.

Any reaction in which a vaccination can cause is anaphylaxis this happens statically one in every hundred thousand child all staff are trained to counteract this quicky to ensure safety of the child.

No child has ever died or been paralysed from a vaccine.

Vaccinations are needed to help protect your child from getting a virus that could normally kill them.

A vaccination works by making antibodies to help fight and resist said virus when or if your child comes into contact with it.....this does not mean your child will never get meseals or mumps it lessens the chances and reduces the risk of your child actually dying.

To advocate false information and slam use of vaccines is careless and spreading unscientific data!

What are you talking about ??? Read the hand out given with the HTaP Vaccine I have linked before. It clear states about deaths. This is from the company that makes the vaccine. This is way I don't trust doctor as much as I would like. Please get your facts right before ranting on about children dying . I started this tread because I am fearful for just that!!!!


I don't want any child getting sick or with side effects from vaccines !!!!

I want safe vaccines that we can all use without so much fear!!!

gar32

This is a quote from the HTaP Vaccine hand out which is received when its given.



In the Swedish efficacy trial where 1,419 recipients received the pertussis components in Tripedia vaccine, three deaths due to
invasive bacterial infections occurred. Further investigation revealed no evidence for a causal relation between vaccination and
altered resistance to invasive disease caused by encapsulated bacteria.33 While the hypothesis that the two variables are related
cannot be ruled out in the Swedish trial, deaths due to invasive bacterial infections have been monitored in other trials. In
contrast to the Swedish trial, in the German case-control study and US open-label safety study, 14,971 infants received Tripedia
vaccine and no deaths due to invasive bacterial infections were reported.

Satori Rae

Also its not pure aluminium that's in certain vaccinations. Its a aluminium based adjuvant which is a tiny miniscule amount....in order for aluminum to be lethal you would need it in a pure form in a large excessive amount.

A adjuvant works by boosting the immune system and by lengthening the effects of the antigen within us so we can continue to make antibodies so we don't need constant boosters.....

Also there never was and never will be a link between vaccinations and autism.

You most definitely need to vaccinate your kids as the only reason probably so far especially concerning polio is there being protected by herd immunity. ....However people from other countries who are not lucky enough to have been given the privilege of vaccines as we do and also the immune compromised people within our country who cant get vaccinations are in danger as are your kids from picking up any of these virus's spreading them around and actually could cause someone to die.

Satori Rae

gar32 wrote: »

This is a quote from the HTaP Vaccine hand out which is received when its given.



In the Swedish efficacy trial where 1,419 recipients received the pertussis components in Tripedia vaccine, three deaths due to
invasive bacterial infections occurred. Further investigation revealed no evidence for a causal relation between vaccination and
altered resistance to invasive disease caused by encapsulated bacteria.33 While the hypothesis that the two variables are related
cannot be ruled out in the Swedish trial, deaths due to invasive bacterial infections have been monitored in other trials. In
contrast to the Swedish trial, in the German case-control study and US open-label safety study, 14,971 infants received Tripedia
vaccine and no deaths due to invasive bacterial infections were reported.

Do you mean the Dtap vaccine? As in the 5 in 1

Satori Rae

I think ill stick to my scientifically published nursing guide rather then a handout from a possible company no offence. Also may I ask can you link me to this handout to the vaccine?

gar32

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=tqUaVdjoC4znaJD1gvAJ&url=http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf&ved=0CCgQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNG1yMl07u3zE9T_P0WSORzTCUJg1A&sig2=25BdMVT0FKNadNU9wR0ztw

He is the link for the DTaP again vaccine hand out with 13 pages of information.

gar32

Satori Rae wrote: »

Also its not pure aluminium that's in certain vaccinations. Its a aluminium based adjuvant which is a tiny miniscule amount....in order for aluminum to be lethal you would need it in a pure form in a large excessive amount.

A adjuvant works by boosting the immune system and by lengthening the effects of the antigen within us so we can continue to make antibodies so we don't need constant boosters.....

Also there never was and never will be a link between vaccinations and autism.

You most definitely need to vaccinate your kids as the only reason probably so far especially concerning polio is there being protected by herd immunity. ....However people from other countries who are not lucky enough to have been given the privilege of vaccines as we do and also the immune compromised people within our country who cant get vaccinations are in danger as are your kids from picking up any of these virus's spreading them around and actually could cause someone to die.

This is one of the items which has me worried about Aluminium

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/vaccines/vaccine-faqs

A little more then a one pager but then children are worth the time

Satori Rae

If you reread the part about the 3 deaths it states there was no relation to the people getting the vaccine and the deaths.

"Further investigation revealed no evidence for a causal relation between vaccination and altered resistance to invasive disease caused by encapsulated bacteria"

I do not know of Dr Sears, but anything with a ask Dr who ever usually is not a credible source. For one he does not know the dosage rates for vaccines or how much a of certain chemicals is in a single vaccine.....we do not have to inject prolonged amounts or aluminum into our body in the first place and generally if your doctor knows your child is immune compromised they would not give your child a vaccine.

I admit I have to look into this site more but it does not look right so far just in my opinion, and I don't want to come across as nasty I am only trying to give you as much information as I can. You can ask any other Nurse or Doctor about this!!

Satori Rae

Ha here we go this debunks Dr sears https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/cashing-in-on-fear-the-danger-of-dr-sears/

mulbot

Satori Rae wrote: »

As a nurse my knowledge of studying years of science and reading medical reports is......vaccinations do not cause autism. ...this has been disproved years ago, it was made up by a docter who got struck off for lying about the link between vaccinations and autism and stealing children's blood without the consent of the parents.

Any reaction in which a vaccination can cause is anaphylaxis this happens statically one in every hundred thousand child all staff are trained to counteract this quicky to ensure safety of the child.

No child has ever died or been paralysed from a vaccine.

Vaccinations are needed to help protect your child from getting a virus that could normally kill them.

A vaccination works by making antibodies to help fight and resist said virus when or if your child comes into contact with it.....this does not mean your child will never get meseals or mumps it lessens the chances and reduces the risk of your child actually dying.

To advocate false information and slam use of vaccines is careless and spreading unscientific data!

Also sorry if I speak/write passionately I would never want a child being criticality sick over misinformation or a parent going through that.

Maybe you can explain the recent case in Italy where a court deemed that a vaccine made by GSK,was linked to autism.

Turtwig

mulbot wrote: »

Maybe you can explain the recent case in Italy where a court deemed that a vaccine made by GSK,was linked to autism.

Isn't that the same country whose judicial system sent people to prison for not predicting an earthquake?

Satori Rae

I have not heard of this case can I get a proper link please?

Satori Rae

Here are some medical based and not so medical based links that will tell you Autism is not caused or linked to vaccinations.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/dec/23/struck-off-mmr-doctor-quackery-award

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-468622/MMR-row-doctor-paid-children-5-blood-samples-sons-birthday-party.html


also this is a gem http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/08/09/court-rulings-dont-confirm-autism-vaccine-link/

LegacyUser

I am in my mid 30s and I have had the misfortune to suffer from most childhood illnesses. I got the standard BCG, etc as a baby. Measles immunisation at three. Not allowed to have the whooping cough one cos of a parents medical history. I caught it and ended up in hospital for months. I got chicken pox about two months later followed by mumps and rubella another few months later. I got the MMR at 12, which was too late for me.

I would strongly advise parents who have never experienced these illnesses to think twice about not immunising your children. I worked with someone who was anti vac but had been protected from these illnesses by vaccinations herself. She watched her children needlessly suffer from these potentially awful illnesses because she thought that it was the best thing. Sadly, she only changed her anti vac tune when one of their school friends contracted a form of meningitis that they could have been vaccinated for.

If you think worst case scenario with vaccine reactions, please balance the thought with worst case scenario for not vaccinatIng. While I ended up as a healthy adult, I lost out on a year of my primary education because of these illnesses.

mulbot

Turtwig wrote: »

Isn't that the same country whose judicial system sent people to prison for not predicting an earthquake?

It wasn't to do with not predicting an earthquake-never mind your media headlines- it was to do with negligence regarding carrying out LEGAL BINDING DUTIES as public officials, and anyway,irrelevant to this topic, which was based on numerous expert opinions from medical science

mulbot

Satori Rae wrote: »

I have not heard of this case can I get a proper link please?

I'm sure you can find that yourself

SleepDoc

Rosy Posy wrote: »

We choose not to vaccinate our children, which tbh is something that I tend to keep to myself online at least as there is a lot of vitriol out there. Our kids go to Waldorf school and I would say that more kids are not immunised than are. A good resource is A Guide to Child Health by Michaela Glockler. My oh is a GP and one of the reasons that we've declined immunisations is the apparently arbitrary way that the mandatory vaccination schedule is decided. It seems to us like a large consideration is the lucrative agreements between governments and pharmaceutical companies. When it comes down to it I just don't trust the powers that be to make the choice that's in the best interests of my family over their own pockets.

I do get that people get worked up because my choice to decline immunisation supposedly lets down the herd immunity, but if you have faith in the vaccines then it shouldn't matter and if you don't then why are you getting them?

Also if my kids are sick I take the responsibility of keeping them at home away from the very young, old or pregnant.

Your oh's attitude to vaccination is incredibly irresponsible. As a medical practitioner he really ought to know better.

I can only assume that he/she has never seen an unvaccinated child die of meningococcal septicaemia or other entirely preventable illnesses. .

Satori Rae

mulbot wrote: »

I'm sure you can find that yourself

Very rude of you.

But I read into it regardless. In fact it was actually found that the autism was down to a genetic mutation the court for some reason ignored this and paid out anyway

Satori Rae

I'm not sure why you would want to believe a doctor who steals the blood of children and may I add got fired, or trust people with no knowledge of medical knowledge or made up sites people put up online saying it's things are true with no facts at all......

I don't understand any of you. You claim its for the interest of your children I worked a year as part of my training on a children's wards......heart breaking is seeing a child in a coma from brain swelling from a accident ......do you know how some children can die from meseals? ??

One of the symptoms is brain swelling something that you can help prevent via vaccination ......I just don't know how you can risk your lives.....your kids and others. ...you also put old people,babies and pregnant mothers at risk.

Also if people did research about vaccines they would know how they work.......they don't stop you from getting something 100% but if you do get it....it will be easier to fight it off.

mulbot

Satori Rae wrote: »

Very rude of you.

But I read into it regardless. In fact it was actually found that the autism was down to a genetic mutation the court for some reason ignored this and paid out anyway

Actually Judge Nicola Di Leo determined that yes, the child had a genetic predisposition which made him more susceptible to the condition post-vaccination-

Satori Rae

mulbot wrote: »

Actually Judge Nicola Di Leo determined that yes, the child had a genetic predisposition which made him more susceptible to the condition post-vaccination-

I think from what I gleamed its being appealed also I read a few articles and that never came up in it.

Also the evidence they relied on Wakefields scribblings was tossed out. Again a genetic disorder has nothing to do with vaccinations