Vaccines question

Neyite

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I wonder how many people who are staunch anti-vaxxers, had an epidural, whilst delivering their precious bundles of joy?

Mod:

What did I say about snide and personal digs? (twice)

Don't post in this thread again.

sleepyheadh

There was only 57 confirmed cases of chicken pox, that required hospitalisation in Ireland in 2012, its really not a big deal..Considering 90% of the population have had it, incidence rate of 1.2/100,000..Much bigger, real problems for health are being overlooked, at the expense of vaccination. Not many people are writing about Ollier's Disease.

http://www.hpsc.ie/A-Z/VaccinePreventable/VaricellaChickenpox/SurveillanceReports/AnnualReports/File,14464,en.pdf

sleepyheadh

Neyite wrote: »

Mod:

What did I say about snide and personal digs? (twice)

Don't post in this thread again.

Not a personal dig, I'm pretty sure a personal dig has to be directed towards an individual!

lazygal

sleepyheadh wrote: »

There was only 57 confirmed cases of chicken pox, that required hospitalisation in Ireland in 2012, its really not a big deal..Considering 90% of the population have had it, incidence rate of 1.2/100,000..Much bigger, real problems for health are being overlooked, at the expense of vaccination. Not many people are writing about Ollier's Disease.

http://www.hpsc.ie/A-Z/VaccinePreventable/VaricellaChickenpox/SurveillanceReports/AnnualReports/File,14464,en.pdf

I have to disagree that it isn't a big deal. Some children suffer very badly with it, not to the point of hospital admission but are driven demented with the itching. Why it is written off as a right of passge I don't know, I've heard of people saying they want their children to 'get it over with' before a holiday or family event. Why let your child go through days or weeks of illness and possibe scars for life when two jabs can avoid all the hassle?

I had a family member who was hospitalised with chicken pox in ICU and for that reason I wouldn't let my children suffer with it.

pwurple

sleepyheadh wrote: »

There was only 57 confirmed cases of chicken pox, that required hospitalisation in Ireland in 2012, its really not a big deal..

Plenty of measles cases don't require hospitalisation, whooping cough, mumps, rubella... etc. What's your point?

Deaths are rare with chickenpox, but not unheard of. But aside from that there are complications like infections on the brain, hearing loss, sight loss... and if none of those things occur, the best case scenario is still weeks of a child being sick, miserable, everyone enduring stress from missed work/school, from something which is entirely preventable.

micosoft

mulbot wrote: »

Maybe you can explain the recent case in Italy where a court deemed that a vaccine made by GSK,was linked to autism.

LOL. The same court system that attempted to prosecute Seismologists for not predicting an Earthquake? Subsequently overturned but not before making the Italian Judiciary a laughing stock.

Satori Rae

sleepyheadh wrote: »

There was only 57 confirmed cases of chicken pox, that required hospitalisation in Ireland in 2012, its really not a big deal..Considering 90% of the population have had it, incidence rate of 1.2/100,000..Much bigger, real problems for health are being overlooked, at the expense of vaccination. Not many people are writing about Ollier's Disease.

http://www.hpsc.ie/A-Z/VaccinePreventable/VaricellaChickenpox/SurveillanceReports/AnnualReports/File,14464,en.pdf

Just in my opinion if people started with the little things such as keeping up with their shots keeping fit and healthy, then more time and money could be spent on researching things like Olliers Disease.

I do agree with you in a way that sometimes small things can override more serious matters.

Like when a hospital or doctors issues a warning of don't come in if you have the flu or a bad cold and people come in droves into a practice looking for help for it, when they just need water and rest but they go spreading it about. It wastes staffs time. Taking away time for other people.

But if the basics are tackled we would all be much more better off!! People would not face the possibility of dying from something so small and simple as the pox or Measles

sleepyheadh

lazygal wrote: »

I have to disagree that it isn't a big deal. Some children suffer very badly with it, not to the point of hospital admission but are driven demented with the itching. Why it is written off as a right of passge I don't know, I've heard of people saying they want their children to 'get it over with' before a holiday or family event. Why let your child go through days or weeks of illness and possibe scars for life when two jabs can avoid all the hassle?

I had a family member who was hospitalised with chicken pox in ICU and for that reason I wouldn't let my children suffer with it.

I mean, its not considered a big deal like bacterial meningitis is considered a BIG deal.

Sure, you know someone that was hospitalised, as I've shown, around 80 people are each year, however, the figure is so small (1.2/100,000) that is really is non-important.

Consider that some of the more well known genetic disease have incidence much higher. E.g. Downs, at 1/1,000. Duchenne muscular dystrophy, at 1/ 3,600 males.

While these disorders are not rare, they are not plaguing peoples minds, whereas, chicken pox hospitalisations are 100 times more rare.

sleepyheadh

pwurple wrote: »

Plenty of measles cases don't require hospitalisation, whooping cough, mumps, rubella... etc. What's your point?

Deaths are rare with chickenpox, but not unheard of. But aside from that there are complications like infections on the brain, hearing loss, sight loss... and if none of those things occur, the best case scenario is still weeks of a child being sick, miserable, everyone enduring stress from missed work/school, from something which is entirely preventable.

The same logic can be applied to coconuts falling on your head, Totally preventable, yet deaths are not unheard of..I'm not afraid of going to the beach.

pwurple

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Consider that some of the more well known genetic disease have incidence much higher. E.g. Downs, at 1/1,000. Duchenne muscular dystrophy, at 1/ 3,600 males.

While these disorders are not rare, they are not plaguing peoples minds, whereas, chicken pox hospitalisations are 100 times more rare.

Are either Downs Syndrome or DMD preventable with a vaccine? Those are both chromosome disorders.

We are talking about a preventable disease being prevented.

No plaguing of minds, but if suffering is preventable, surely it's patently obvious to go ahead and prevent it.

Orion

sleepyheadh: Which part of don't post in this thread again confused you? Take a couple of days off to think about that.

micosoft

gar32 wrote: »

This is a quote from the HTaP Vaccine hand out which is received when its given.



In the Swedish efficacy trial where 1,419 recipients received the pertussis components in Tripedia vaccine, three deaths due to
invasive bacterial infections occurred. Further investigation revealed no evidence for a causal relation between vaccination and
altered resistance to invasive disease caused by encapsulated bacteria.33 While the hypothesis that the two variables are related
cannot be ruled out in the Swedish trial, deaths due to invasive bacterial infections have been monitored in other trials. In
contrast to the Swedish trial, in the German case-control study and US open-label safety study, 14,971 infants received Tripedia
vaccine and no deaths due to invasive bacterial infections were reported.

You highlighted the wrong piece. Basically the study found no link at all between the deaths and vaccine. If a child was run over by a car after being vaccinated do you think that would be causation or correlation?

tinkerbell

lazygal wrote: »

Mine needed two jabs for Men B and another friend was the same, different area and GP. Is there a different version with three jabs?

My GP did say there is a chance of chicken pox even with the vaccine, but for the increased chance of them not getting it we decided to go ahead.

ETA: http://www.meningitis.org/menb-vaccine

2 primary doses are required plus a booster, see here:

http://www.bexsero.com/dosing-and-administration.shtml

ETA: if you start earlier (eg at 2 months), you need 3 primary doses plus the booster!

lazygal

I must check with my GP. We got a prescription for two shots, but he never mentioned a booster being required. We were closer to two getting it so maybe that made a difference.

tinkerbell

lazygal wrote: »

I must check with my GP. We got a prescription for two shots, but he never mentioned a booster being required. We were closer to two getting it so maybe that made a difference.

I think that's why - kids older than 2 don't seem to need one, according to the bexsero website.

Bicycle

I'm the Mum of a son on the Autistic Spectrum (Aspergers). As a child I had a reaction to two vaccines: Smallpox (I caught cowpox from a poorly produced batch and nearly died) and I'm allergic to an element of the anti-tetanus vaccine, which makes life rather awkward.

So I feel I have researched the "lived experience" of Autism and Vaccination

Our eldest child was born in the years following Wakefield and a number of people asked me at the time if I was going to vaccinate.

I did vaccinate and where vaccinations I wanted were not available publicly had them done privately. Both of my elder children were fine and remain fine.

Our son was exhibiting autistic traits before he was 2, with hindsight he was exhibiting autistic traits from the time he started to communicate. He finally got a diagnosis when he was 9.

Knowing what I do now, would I vaccinate my children? Absolutely yes. More children die from measles, mumps and rubella each year than from autism.

I value the life of my child much more than I dislike his diagnosis of autism.

bovril

lazygal wrote:

Mine needed two jabs for Men B and another friend was the same, different area and GP. Is there a different version with three jabs?

Hi, depending on the age of your baby/child you need 2 or 3 jabs for the MenB vaccine. Younger than 6 months is 3 and older than 6 months is 2.

lazygal

bovril wrote: »

Hi, depending on the age of your baby/child you need 2 or 3 jabs for the MenB vaccine. Younger than 6 months is 3 and older than 6 months is 2.

Yes, that's what I thought. My GP recommended completing the scheduled ones first, then the chicken pox, then the Men B (in order of his priority he said) so it was quite close to two years when she got the MenB. He's very good so I'd trust him to advise me properly. My younger will be getting the Men B first shot this month so I'll check with him then.

tinkerbell

lazygal wrote: »

Yes, that's what I thought. My GP recommended completing the scheduled ones first, then the chicken pox, then the Men B (in order of his priority he said) so it was quite close to two years when she got the MenB. He's very good so I'd trust him to advise me properly. My younger will be getting the Men B first shot this month so I'll check with him then.

It's all in the leaflet that comes in the Bexsero box - I kept it after my baby got the first dose. I'm looking at it now and it says Infants (6-11m) and Children (12-23m) should receive two injections followed by a third (booster). Defo ask him about it. It says Children (2-10yrs) should receive 2 doses.

bovril

lazygal wrote:

Yes, that's what I thought. My GP recommended completing the scheduled ones first, then the chicken pox, then the Men B (in order of his priority he said) so it was quite close to two years when she got the MenB. He's very good so I'd trust him to advise me properly. My younger will be getting the Men B first shot this month so I'll check with him then.

Maybe the thinking has changed on this over time but the most recent FAQ PDF on the HSE website says you can get the MenB vaccine with the scheduled vaccines but they do say to leave a week between them. That's what we are doing with our baby. She's getting them 3, 4 and 5 months and one week after the scheduled ones.

The leaflet in the bexsero box is great and worth keeping. I used it to keep an eye for known side effects. Thankfully we only saw a bit of an increase in temperature. Nothing too high.

lazygal

I am sure I have the leaflet somewhere. I also wanted to spread out the extra vaccines so I'd remember what was what and what they were due!

kandr10

sleepyheadh wrote: »

There was only 57 confirmed cases of chicken pox, that required hospitalisation in Ireland in 2012, its really not a big deal..Considering 90% of the population have had it, incidence rate of 1.2/100,000..Much bigger, real problems for health are being overlooked, at the expense of vaccination. Not many people are writing about Ollier's Disease.

http://www.hpsc.ie/A-Z/VaccinePreventable/VaricellaChickenpox/SurveillanceReports/AnnualReports/File,14464,en.pdf

There would be even less cases of children being hospitalised after receiving vaccines than the accumulative diseases they prevent. So is it not the better option still?

contrary_mary

Bovril that's what we did too - a couple of weeks after the 2, 4 and 6 months vaccines I popped in for bexsero. It's just been added to the existing appointments in those countries that have it on their schedule so I'd say that is what will happen here whenever the government stump up for it! That will mean 3 vaccines at 2 and 4 months and 4 at 6 months.

I'm planning to get the booster at the 13 month appointment to save the extra appointment as I might be popping in a month later for chicken pox.

gar32

Thanks all for your interest in the tread. I think I have over reacted. I believe vacations are 99% safe and that the 5 - 10% of children without vaccines in the 1st countries 99% of them will not get one of those diseases.

I am meeting a doctor today who specializes in vaccination. I will get my children on a late schedule.

For the people reading with children in the 1% with problems I wish you well in giving your children the best life you can.

Regards

Gar32 ☺

gar32

So after a long chat with an expert. I am not a 100% convinced vaccination doesn't harm a child's ability to fight other sicknesses. between the two of my kids the oldest was only sick once. I myself have had no boosters and have never had a sickness other than a cold. My friends children seem to be sick often. What do people think of that?

Roesy

gar32 wrote: »

So after a long chat with an expert. I am not a 100% convinced vaccination doesn't harm a child's ability to fight other sicknesses. between the two of my kids the oldest was only sick once. I myself have had no boosters and have never had a sickness other than a cold. My friends children seem to be sick often. What do people think of that?

Other than silent reflux which started before she ever even had a single vaccination, my daughter has had nothing worse than a common cold. Some children seem more prone to illness than others. There are so many factors that could explain your friends children's sicknesses.

lazygal

My children are vaccinated against loads of things and.I've never had more than a day or two of a vomiting bug and some colds. Vaccines don't mean a child will be more or less sick than an unvaccinated child.

DM addict

gar32 wrote: »

So after a long chat with an expert. I am not a 100% convinced vaccination doesn't harm a child's ability to fight other sicknesses. between the two of my kids the oldest was only sick once. I myself have had no boosters and have never had a sickness other than a cold. My friends children seem to be sick often. What do people think of that?

Well, what did the expert say to this question?

The difference between your kid and someone else's isn't really enough data to make proper decisions on. I can counter that with the fact that I've had all my vaccinations and, apart from chicken pox (for which there was no vaccination at the time), I never got more than a cold when I was a kid. Anecdotal stories aren't evidence.

kandr10

DM addict wrote: »

Well, what did the expert say to this question?

The difference between your kid and someone else's isn't really enough data to make proper decisions on. I can counter that with the fact that I've had all my vaccinations and, apart from chicken pox (for which there was no vaccination at the time), I never got more than a cold when I was a kid. Anecdotal stories aren't evidence.

Ditto. How did you ask the question and how was it answered exactly?

mulbot

gar32 wrote: »

So after a long chat with an expert. I am not a 100% convinced vaccination doesn't harm a child's ability to fight other sicknesses. between the two of my kids the oldest was only sick once. I myself have had no boosters and have never had a sickness other than a cold. My friends children seem to be sick often. What do people think of that?

have thought the same,me and my 4 siblings were never vaccinated,none of us ever are sick,i see too that when my child, and my brothers kids have the sniffles etc,they seem to clear up alot quicker than their cousins(who are vaccinated),