Vaccines question

DublinWriter

I always thought vaccines contained only a dead or weak form of a virus that trained the immune system into being able to build resistive anti-bodies.

This, from Dr. Jack Wolfson:
Be angry with your doctor for being close-minded and not disclosing the ingredients in vaccines (not that they read the package insert anyway). They should tell you about the aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde, aborted fetal tissue, animal proteins, polysorbate 80, antibiotics, and other chemicals in the shots. According to the Environmental Working Group, newborns contain over 200 chemicals as detected by cord blood. Maybe your doctor feels a few more chemicals injected into your child won’t be a big deal.

pwurple

DublinWriter wrote: »

I always thought vaccines contained only a dead or weak form of a virus that trained the immune system into being able to build resistive anti-bodies.

This, from Dr. Jack Wolfson:
Be angry with your doctor for being close-minded and not disclosing the ingredients in vaccines (not that they read the package insert anyway). They should tell you about the aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde, aborted fetal tissue, animal proteins, polysorbate 80, antibiotics, and other chemicals in the shots. According to the Environmental Working Group, newborns contain over 200 chemicals as detected by cord blood. Maybe your doctor feels a few more chemicals injected into your child won’t be a big deal.

Aluminium... there is more of it contained in daily breastmilk than in any vaccine.
Mercury, not present, that's made up.
Aborted fetal tissue? Come on now... seriously?

Scaremongering, all of it.

And that fella has gone strangely silent since the measles outbreak in the US, despite an awful lot of people trying to interview him about his advice to infected children's parents not to vaccinate.

Elliottsmum79

A little humour on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgpfNScEd3M . Though as a parent I have to say, nothing funny about polio, TB, and Meningitis, measles. "Herd immunity" so important for the general population.

Worth a watch. No conspiracy. No hidden effects. Nothing guaranteed in life ( so yes there is always a theoretical rick) but on a risk/reward basis, I'd RUN to vaccinate my kids.

For excellent analysis of the MMR scaremongering, see this guardian article, http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/25/mmr-scare-analysis

[mod edit - added links]

Orion

You mean this Dr. Jack Wolfson? :rolleyes:

Satori Rae

pwurple wrote: »

Aluminium... there is more of it contained in daily breastmilk than in any vaccine.
Mercury, not present, that's made up.
Aborted fetal tissue? Come on now... seriously?

Scaremongering, all of it.

And that fella has gone strangely silent since the measles outbreak in the US, despite an awful lot of people trying to interview him about his advice to infected children's parents not to vaccinate.

Also may I add to this that in fact we make formaldehyde naturally in our bodies (in our blood stream) and Mercury (actually Thiomersal) is no longer used in vaccines (by most facilities) due to the fear of misinformation.

(To the anti vaxers)
And also ever heard of dihydrogen monoxide sounds like a really scary chemical right, one you should avoid?

Rumors were set up that this was the new serial killing chemical (via a page set up as a joke on the internet) A lot of people took this seriously.

DiHydrogen monoxide is chemical term for water....

Satori Rae

As a side note antibiotics are only added to some vaccines in tiny amounts, such as the MMR which contains a antibiotic called Neomycin. This is to stop the growth of bacteria during the production and storage of the vaccine. Until it is administered.

The "animal proteins" in question are normal Gelatin ( used to a stabilizer to maintain the shelf life of vaccines) and small amounts of egg protein which is used in 2 vaccines the MMR and the flu vaccine.

(Also there is also "animal proteins" in forms of Insulin.)

There are 2 different forms of vaccinations live and dead (killed)

Live is MMR, Bcg, shingles etc

Dead is Polio vaccine, whooping cough and flu etc

That was a long side note

mulbot

pwurple wrote: »

"Aluminium... there is more of it contained in daily breastmilk than in any vaccine.
Mercury, not present, that's made up.
Aborted fetal tissue? Come on now... seriously?

Scaremongering, all of it.

And that fella has gone strangely silent since the measles outbreak in the US, despite an awful lot of people trying to interview him about his advice to infected children's parents not to vaccinate."

Can i ask why do you think it's made up? That mercury or a derivative(thimerosal) are not in vaccines and that it's "made up".

pwurple

mulbot wrote: »

Can i ask why do you think it's made up? That mercury or a derivative(thimerosal) are not in vaccines and that it's "made up".

Because I read the packaging. It's not there. Has not been for years in peadiatric vaccine.

I've also worked in pharmaceutical companies for a decent amount of time, including companies that manufacture vaccines. I've been in FDA audits where they pour over every aspect of a product. From every letter on the box it comes in, to the training of the guy who sweeps the floors, to the air filters in the facilities, so I believe what's on the insert.

IvyTheTerrible

Babies contain 200 chemicals? We are MADE of chemicals.

Scary stat, 100% of people who drink H20 will die. Ban this dangerous chemical now!

Orion

I agree entirely. H20 or Dihydrogen Monoxide is a vicious chemical*.

Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:

Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
Contributes to soil erosion.
Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

And it's everywhere. It's used in baby food and bottles, bubble bath, baby shampoo, in solid form as a preservative in supermarkets and even in supposedly all natural fruit juices. It's also used as a performance enhancing substance by athletes the world over.

This is all just as valid as any argument against vaccines

Neyite

Satori Rae wrote: »

The "animal proteins" in question are normal Gelatin ( used to a stabilizer to maintain the shelf life of vaccines) and small amounts of egg protein which is used in 2 vaccines the MMR and the flu vaccine.

Sooo...what you are telling me is that now there is ...trifle... in the vaccine??

Satori Rae

Neyite wrote: »

Sooo...what you are telling me is that now there is ...trifle... in the vaccine??

lol jelly really just delicious jelly :P taken from pigs no less

Orion

So there's bacon in there too? I fail to see the problem.

Satori Rae

Orion wrote: »

So there's bacon in there too? I fail to see the problem.

Ha now I want crispy bacon o.0

mulbot

pwurple wrote: »

Because I read the packaging. It's not there. Has not been for years in peadiatric vaccine.

I've also worked in pharmaceutical companies for a decent amount of time, including companies that manufacture vaccines. I've been in FDA audits where they pour over every aspect of a product. From every letter on the box it comes in, to the training of the guy who sweeps the floors, to the air filters in the facilities, so I believe what's on the insert.

So when you say it hasn't been used in years, roughly how many years?

pwurple

mulbot wrote: »

So when you say it hasn't been used in years, roughly how many years?

Read the leaflet in the packet. Or download it from the manufacturers website. All ingredients are listed. Anything that is not listed, ain't in there.


Or, alternatively, worry about all the non-existent ingredients that people continue to invent without even bothering to look at the packet. Still boggled at the aborted fetuses one. What kind of sick nutcase even comes up with these?

seventeen sheep

pwurple wrote: »

Still boggled at the aborted fetuses one. What kind of sick nutcase even comes up with these?

I also find it fascinating that people are naive enough to believe such rubbish, that they'll listen to such nutcases, but they won't listen to actual medical advice from professionals!

Satori Rae

mulbot wrote: »

So when you say it hasn't been used in years, roughly how many years?

2001/2002 I think

It was proven to be harmless in the first place via CDC & FDA but it was changed because people ( went in arms over it just cause basically) and in fear of people causing more hassle then it was worth and not getting vaccinations done, they took it out. It still is in some flu shots as there has been no found alternative around it.

But the Mercury that was in question was ethyl mercury not methyl mercury.
Ethyl is harmless and is naturally excreted by the gut and is short lived in our blood streams it actually helps prevent bacteria growth in vaccines which would make us sick and kill us, the other Mercury..... well that is not so good you would have to eat a hell of amount for it to attack your nervous system.

Oh and as another side note the bad type of Mercury can be found in fish but again you would have to eat tonnes of it

[/COLOR]

gctest50

Satori Rae wrote: »

......... the other Mercury..... well that is not so good you would have to eat a hell of amount for it to attack your nervous system.

Oh and as another side note the bad type of Mercury can be found in fish but again you would have to eat tonnes of it
.........

........unlike its evil twin dimethyl

She was a very experienced organometallic chemist who took all the precautions in measuring out a tiny amount of dimethylmercury in August 1996. She worked in a fume cupboard, wearing a lab coat, latex gloves and safety glasses. A colleague opened the chilled ampoule of dimethylmercury, and Wetterhahn rapidly pipetted it into the NMR tube, put the remainder into a storage vessel, cleaned up and disposed of the gloves.

http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/spring-2008-10th-anniversary-edition/remembering-karen-wetterhahn

Satori Rae

gctest50 wrote: »

........unlike its evil twin dimethyl

Very very unfortunate but deffo not in vaccines (just encase people think otherwise) plus that is a neurotoxin.

I had a friend who did not think chloroform would do much to him....ended up taking a sniff and nearly keeled over.

Of course with chemicals you have to be careful luckily for us there is lots and lots of tests these days before it reaches the general public.

mulbot

Satori Rae wrote: »

2001/2002 I think

It was proven to be harmless in the first place via CDC & FDA but it was changed because people ( went in arms over it just cause basically) and in fear of people causing more hassle then it was worth and not getting vaccinations done, they took it out. It still is in some flu shots as there has been no found alternative around it.

But the Mercury that was in question was ethyl mercury not methyl mercury.
Ethyl is harmless and is naturally excreted by the gut and is short lived in our blood streams it actually helps prevent bacteria growth in vaccines which would make us sick and kill us, the other Mercury..... well that is not so good you would have to eat a hell of amount for it to attack your nervous system.

Oh and as another side note the bad type of Mercury can be found in fish but again you would have to eat tonnes of it

[/COLOR]

No, it wasn't that long ago(2001-2002)

mulbot

pwurple wrote: »

Read the leaflet in the packet. Or download it from the manufacturers website. All ingredients are listed. Anything that is not listed, ain't in there.


Or, alternatively, worry about all the non-existent ingredients that people continue to invent without even bothering to look at the packet. Still boggled at the aborted fetuses one. What kind of sick nutcase even comes up with these?

That didn't answer my question.I do read them,i only asked a question about how long ago YOU thought they stopped using it,

mulbot

pwurple wrote: »

Read the leaflet in the packet. Or download it from the manufacturers website. All ingredients are listed. Anything that is not listed, ain't in there.


Or, alternatively, worry about all the non-existent ingredients that people continue to invent without even bothering to look at the packet. Still boggled at the aborted fetuses one. What kind of sick nutcase even comes up with these?

This is strange seeing as you claimed to have a considerable connection to this industry...,Maybe you just missed the fact that cell strains from aborted fetuses have been used to make some vaccines-(although sterile in the vaccine itself).
MERUVAX,(a rubella vaccine) VAQTA(hep. A) and M-R-VAX(measles and rubella combo) are just a few vaccines using viruses propagated in either WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts or MRC-5(also human lung fibroblasts). Both WI-38 and MRC-5 are medically recorded as being from human aborted fetuses!!

mulbot

seventeen sheep wrote: »

I also find it fascinating that people are naive enough to believe such rubbish, that they'll listen to such nutcases, but they won't listen to actual medical advice from professionals!

What's fascinating is that you are posting this without having much information on the subject. It's also not naive to believe something that's true-You are calling substantiated medical information "rubbish", maybe it's you who is naive

seventeen sheep

mulbot wrote: »

What's fascinating is that you are posting this without having much information on the subject. It's also not naive to believe something that's true-You are calling substantiated medical information "rubbish", maybe it's you who is naive

Look your agenda has been clear from your first posts on this threads.

I would say grand, it's OK, you're entitled to your opinion ... except that, IF you are actually a parent who is exposing their unvaccinated child to the public, you're putting countless lives in danger.

But maybe you aren't being so irresponsible (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt - few parents are.) Maybe you don't actually have children yet.

pwurple

mulbot, I'm not a chemist, I'm an engineer. If you can show me aborted fetus on the packaging list I'll believe you. Growth enviroments are an entirely different thing to ingredients. They don't get anywhere near the manufacturing facility.

thought you might like this one.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-vaccinate-my-child-because-its-my-right-to,37839/

Sligo1

Mulbots post are very good at asking people to confirm their assertions by posting links... However, I fail to see any valid links from the poster him/herself!

Mulbot would be great if you could Post a valid link from the WHO, UNICEF, CDC, vaccine package ingredient list or ANY valid peer reviewed research article that proves any of your claims from your last 3 posts? Especially the claim about aborted foetuses?

Satori Rae

mulbot wrote: »

No, it wasn't that long ago(2001-2002)

Just checked around for a credible source and the cdc website states it was 2001.

Jerrica

*facepalm* Again with the twisting of information and awful misuse of scientific fact.

mulbot wrote: »

This is strange seeing as you claimed to have a considerable connection to this industry...,Maybe you just missed the fact that cell strains from aborted fetuses have been used to make some vaccines-(although sterile in the vaccine itself).
MERUVAX,(a rubella vaccine) VAQTA(hep. A) and M-R-VAX(measles and rubella combo) are just a few vaccines using viruses propagated in either WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts or MRC-5(also human lung fibroblasts). Both WI-38 and MRC-5 are medically recorded as being from human aborted fetuses!!

You are correct. HOWEVER, let's look at this with a bit more objectivity. The WI-38 cell line was created in 1966 in the US, the MRC-5 cell line was developed in 1965 in the UK. The former used lung cells from a Caucasian female 3 month old foetus, the latter used lung cells from a 14 week old foetus. Both cell lines are almost sixty years old and originally derived from these two foetuses and have since been used literally millions of times around the world in countless labs for research ranging from vaccines to the discovery of telomeres.

The cell culture is used to grow the virus needed to make the vaccine - the virus is grown, killed, taken apart and the appropriate subcomponent is used in the vaccine itself.

So the choice is up to the reader, if you want to morally object to the use of these cells then do so, but it's a stretch to say that vaccines contain aborted foetuses. They don't, they contain virus particles grown in the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-.... great-great-grandchild cells of the lung cells taken from one of two foetuses aborted sixty years ago.

Drdoc

Jerrica wrote: »

*facepalm* Again with the twisting of information and awful misuse of scientific fact.



You are correct. HOWEVER, let's look at this with a bit more objectivity. The WI-38 cell line was created in 1966 in the US, the MRC-5 cell line was developed in 1965 in the UK. The former used lung cells from a Caucasian female 3 month old foetus, the latter used lung cells from a 14 week old foetus. Both cell lines are almost sixty years old and originally derived from these two foetuses and have since been used literally millions of times around the world in countless labs for research ranging from vaccines to the discovery of telomeres.

The cell culture is used to grow the virus needed to make the vaccine - the virus is grown, killed, taken apart and the appropriate subcomponent is used in the vaccine itself.

So the choice is up to the reader, if you want to morally object to the use of these cells then do so, but it's a stretch to say that vaccines contain aborted foetuses. They don't, they contain virus particles grown in the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-.... great-great-grandchild cells of the lung cells taken from one of two foetuses aborted sixty years ago.

Yes it's akin to saying that a mixing bowl is an ingredient in cake just because you used it to make the cake!