Motorhome out of storage today :)

Mefistofelino

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Oh well. The peculiar thing is that the factory-fit charger in the motorhome has a maximum output of 14.7V, according to the nameplate.

Nothing wrong with that, has it got selectable charge profiles?
Are the engine batteries linked to the habitation charger and vice versa? Running different chemistry batteries is a nuisance, lots of lekytronic boxes needed to make things right.

Seems a bit redundant to me to have a spare engine battery and a habitation battery. I'd be tempted run on one much larger silver calcium for the engine and bridge the engine split charge relay terminals.

According to Valeo and ford forums your alternator can crank out 18V if it's sufficiently cold and low on charge.

These silver calcium batteries are quite hard to pin down. Seems they keep contradicting their own rules.

moodrater

Calcium is fine I had a yuasa professional calcium in mine for years and its still in fine fettle: http://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/ I never measured more than 16.2v and that was at almost -15C with a ****e dead battery. To get 18V you'd need a cold start, artic conditions and a dead battery and even then I'm sceptical. There are issues with high voltage spiking with jump starting as the smart charge system takes time to respond to the sudden change in load/voltage.

Alphaline do Calcium/Tin range 14.4v-16v
Korean alternative to Silver.
Same concept:
More CCA, less gassing, less cycles, tin/silver alloy to prevent the calcium induced advanced grid corrosion.

Banner claim their Calcium/Calcium are suitable for transits too and 16V to reverse stratification

Mefistofelino

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that, has it got selectable charge profiles?

Yes - via a set of well-hidden dip switches. Currently set to Lead-Acid re-charge

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Are the engine batteries linked to the habitation charger and vice versa? Running different chemistry batteries is a nuisance, lots of lekytronic boxes needed to make things right.

I had always assumed that the habitation charger would top up the engine batteries but now I'm not so sure. The owners manual (Laika) is not at all clear on this and doing a bit of Googling yesterday indicated that it is quite common for the mains charger on a Laika to only charge the habitation battery, leaving the starter battery fed only from the alternator. I'm going to have to do a bit more investigating once I can move the motorhome to a mains supply


Thanks for all the help so far.

moodrater

moodrater wrote: »

I never measured more than 16.2v and that was at almost -15C

Under Trojan nuthin' fancy stalworth lead antimony temp. compensating guidelines; +5mV per cell per °C below 25°C:

14.8V baseline + 0.005V * 6cells * 40°C = 16V @ -15°C

Nekarsulm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Under Trojan nuthin' fancy stalworth lead antimony temp. compensating guidelines; +5mV per cell per °C below 25°C:

14.8V baseline + 0.005V * 6cells * 40°C = 16V @ -15°C

Bloody hell, I understood exactly nothing in your post.
Gonna have to dig out my old Leaving Cert Physics textbook. (circa 1985!)

Nekarsulm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Bloody hell, I understood exactly nothing in your post.

Basically the Ford smart charging system (from my basic understanding) is just an alternator with temperature compensation and suitable for open lead acids if you are prepared to water them. They're designed for sealed silver calcium because they gas so little they can still warranty them.
At the end of the day you get more cycles (~500) from a traditional motive battery treated correctly than a patented bosch/varta jobbie in a deep cycle application.

Starting motors, motormovers, cold performance, overspec-ed loads, low maintenance, long shelf life and durability against heavy loading may translate Calcium batteries to the motorhome market major as a longer lasting battery however for kWh returned per € invested as well as cycle life the old school open lead acid semi-traction deep cycle motive batteries are still King. Clear as mud?

Nekarsulm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Basically the Ford smart charging system (from my basic understanding) is just an alternator with temperature compensation and suitable for open lead acids if you are prepared to water them. They're designed for sealed silver calcium because they gas so little they can still warranty them.
At the end of the day you get more cycles (~500) from a traditional motive battery treated correctly than a patented bosch/varta jobbie.

Starting motors, motormovers, cold performance, overspec-ed loads, low maintenance, long shelf life and durability against heavy loading may translate Calcium batteries to the motorhome market major as a longer lasting battery however for kWh returned per € invested as well as cycle life the old school open lead acid semi-traction deep cycle motive batteries are still King. Clear as mud?

I suppose batteries from a golf cart would be out of the question, so?

Sir Liamalot

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Under Trojan nuthin' fancy stalworth lead antimony temp. compensating guidelines; +5mV per cell per °C below 25°C:

14.8V baseline + 0.005V * 6cells * 40°C = 16V @ -15°C

Trojan Battery Company (makers of true deep cycle batteries with an R&D department) advise higher charging rates in colder weather to offset the increased battery internal resistance.
This translates to +1.2V in -15°C, same as what the ford smart battery charging system produces according to M.
So I speculate it's not an issue with standard lead antimony grids just sealed unmaintainable batteries.

Nekarsulm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I suppose batteries from a golf cart would be out of the question, so?

They won't last starting engines, but they'll happily sit the other side of a split charger.

Temperature compensation applies to all batteries, just not all companies advocate it. I reckon a maintained OLA starter battery engine side could do as good a job in a Ford (but not in a start/stop system).

The Calcium batteries do give better cycling life than starter batteries, less than the motive ones so they are hybrids.

Skip to 11mins for the scoop.

Macspower

thanks for the advice guys.

Just back after a week with teh van. Great to have her back on the road,

I got an energy bull 100Ah model in the end as its what my local place had in stock.

Anyway i always had 3 batteries in the van but I've disconnected the other 2 and now just have the 1 under the passenger seat.
It seems to be charging perfectly and when running off the alternator the needle goes up ot the right a little and after a while works it's way back to the middle and from memory that is all good.

Anyway.. Few resonably cold nights last week and I set the trauma heater control to 18degrees and it purred away as normal and was snug as a bug but I would wake up at around 5 am with the clicking coming from the heater and it cutting in and out. The red light would be flashing on the heater control and the low battery light was on the control panel. A start of the van would sort the problem.

But I'm wondering if the battery is ok or have I a problem with the charging system or perhaps thats as long as it lasts??

I didn't have access to hookup but with the previous setup of 3 batteries I never had a problem. BTW my van is normally driven during the day so has a chance of full charge up from altenator.

Don't rely on an alternator to charge a deep cycled battery it's just a contributor.
Battery monitor?

Aidan_M_M

you should get 2-3 nights out of a 100ah battery . Sounds like you're not getting a proper charge into it.

This isn't a promo for a B2B charger (even though they are good). It's intended as a point of reference on the limitations of standard fitment.