Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

We got Te'o signed for this season so maybe that's out lot.

A 10/12 would be good to get though.

We are getting one of the best 10s in the world, Madigan is good as a squad 10/12. If we have a choice id want either a class 13, or a wing. Fitzgerald fits the bill as a 13 but we're left weaker in the back 3 if he moves inside

Buer

Hagz wrote: »

Frank Halai has signed for Wasps if I'm not mistaken. How about an ex-Blues player - Rene Ranger.

Ranger has been a disaster for Montpellier and trying to get out of there since arriving. I don't think his future lies outside of NZ.

We already have Te'o so I don't think we're looking at any NIQ signings in the centre.

If we're going to sign a NIQ back, a scrum half needs to be at the top of the list now. I hope we pull out of the reported aim of signing Kirchner up again.

.ak

I've been a big fan or Kirchner but he's been plain awful last couple of games. Needs to sort out the basics before he goes trying to win a game by himself.

The Pheasant2

I'd love to see us nick a good scrummy, someone like Cobus Reinach would be unreal; though I can't see him leaving the Sharks for Leinster

Clegg

On paper Munster's back line is better than Leinster's.

Disgusting.

irishbucsfan

Clegg wrote: »

On paper Munster's back line is better than Leinster's.

Disgusting.

Not with Sexton at 10.

.ak

There's absolute oodles of talent and caps in the Leinster backline. On paper there's no issues, on paper...

DelMcG

.ak wrote: »

There's absolute oodles of talent and caps in the Leinster backline. On paper there's no issues, on paper...

Maybe we need to start playing more matches on paper...

Mahatma Geansai

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not with Sexton at 10.

I'm not so sure. A halfback pairing of Murray and Keatley would be quite similar in standard to one of Reddan/Boss and Sexton. Munster's first-choice backline from 11-15 would be stronger than Leinster's, but Leinster have greater depth.

Leinster's backline is the weakest its been in a long time. The academy is churning out some very good forwards, but you've to go back 9/10 years since any great backs have broken through. Is Ringrose the next big prospect?

SaveOurLyric

.ak wrote: »

There's absolute oodles of talent and caps in the Leinster backline. On paper there's no issues, on paper...

....until someone shreds the paper...which points the finger at the coach.


What chance Ringrose making a step up next season ?

DelMcG

In terms of next season's signings, Mick Kearney & Jonny Sexton are done deals.

As far as NIQ players go, wouldn't Ben Te'o be considered (rightly or wrongly) a project player from next season? Quinn Roux is gone, so we don't actually have a project player on the books. That means we can either designate him as our 1 project player & sign a capped NIQ player as well as Kirchner or we can designate Te'o as NIQ & sign an uncapped player.

Buer

There is no designation of project players. All you need is for one of your NIQ players to be a project player. All of them can be project players if you want, though.

DelMcG

Buer wrote: »

There is no designation of project players. All you need is for one of your NIQ players to be a project player. All of them can be project players if you want, though.

You're only allowed one designated project player though (unless you're Connacht). Otherwise they're NIQ.

Munster have a similar situation. CJ Stander is their project player. He becomes Irish qualified on October 31st, at which point Gerhard Van Den Heever becomes the project player, freeing up the NIQ spot that Francis Saili is taking, as he won't arrive until later in the season

total former

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

....until someone shreds the paper...which points the finger at the coach.


What chance Ringrose making a step up next season ?

About the same chance as you posting about something other than the coach, very little.

DelMcG

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

....until someone shreds the paper...which points the finger at the coach.


What chance Ringrose making a step up next season ?

Fair to middling chance he'll play in pre season, then play B&I Cup, with only a very slim chance of making the bench during some lesser Pro12 games during the RWC & Six Nations.

SaveOurLyric

total former wrote: »

About the same chance as you posting about something other than the coach, very little.

Thanks. The following year for Ringrose then probably. Maybe they are wary of pushing him too soon like Macken or Conway. He's still an interesting prospect though (Ringrose, not MOC).

thomond2006

I hope Cian Kelleher gets a run during the World Cup. Although I think Dave Kearney and McFadden won't be with Ireland so perhaps not.

As for Kirchner, keeping him doesn't make any sense. He isn't a regular starter plus Leinster have plenty young / squad players in the backline so it doesn't make sense to spend a lot to keep him. He'll also be 31 in the summer so is getting on in age. To put that in context, Nacewa retired before his 31st birthday.

Buer

DelMcG wrote: »

You're only allowed one designated project player though (unless you're Connacht). Otherwise they're NIQ.

Munster have a similar situation. CJ Stander is their project player. He becomes Irish qualified on October 31st, at which point Gerhard Van Den Heever becomes the project player, freeing up the NIQ spot that Francis Saili is taking, as he won't arrive until later in the season

Maybe you have one "officially" deemed a project player but they can be all project players if they meet criteria and time spent with the provinces counts towards qualification. The designation is semantics, essentially, once you have at least one player in that role.

For example, Richardt Strauss and Nathan White were both at Leinster and both went on to be capped. Stander, Bleyendaal and VDH are in the same boat in Munster. Ludik and Herbst are both in the same situation at Ulster at the moment.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Buer wrote: »

Maybe you have one "officially" deemed a project player but they can be all project players if they meet criteria and time spent with the provinces counts towards qualification. The designation is semantics, essentially, once you have at least one player in that role.

For example, Richardt Strauss and Nathan White were both at Leinster and both went on to be capped. Stander, Bleyendaal and VDH are in the same boat in Munster. Ludik and Herbst are both in the same situation at Ulster at the moment.

We can have 3+1 or 2+2 or 1+3 or even 0+4. we just need 1. Question is will the IRFU accept a 28 year old with a 1 year contract and two and a bit years to qualify who has spoken about playing for any of 4 other teams if he succeeds as rugby union as Leinster's project

DelMcG

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hope Cian Kelleher gets a run during the World Cup. Although I think Dave Kearney and McFadden won't be with Ireland so perhaps not.

As for Kirchner, keeping him doesn't make any sense. He isn't a regular starter plus Leinster have plenty young / squad players in the backline so it doesn't make sense to spend a lot to keep him. He'll also be 31 in the summer so is getting on in age. To put that in context, Nacewa retired before his 31st birthday.

The issue seems to be with Kirchner himself delaying the deal, rather than it being a contract negotiation, so we could yet see him opt to leave of his own accord. I agree he's been average overall but if we're letting him go, I'd like us to have a quality overseas signing in the works beforehand. Tim Nanai-Williams, maybe? Versatile as hell, 5 years younger, uncapped. He ticks a lot of boxes... Plus with his big brother up in Belfast, maybe he can put in a good word (now he's got a lot of spare time on his hands)

RedemptionZ

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I'm not so sure. A halfback pairing of Murray and Keatley would be quite similar in standard to one of Reddan/Boss and Sexton. Munster's first-choice backline from 11-15 would be stronger than Leinster's, but Leinster have greater depth.

Leinster's backline is the weakest its been in a long time. The academy is churning out some very good forwards, but you've to go back 9/10 years since any great backs have broken through. Is Ringrose the next big prospect?

Certainly more effective at producing forwards recently, but that could just be luck of the draw with regards to the crop, Byrne at 10, Ringrose in the centre, Kelleher at 15 or wing are all pretty good prospects imo. Luke McGrath too still has a lot of potential.


Slightly related to that, what happened to Peter Robb? No idea why he wasn't offered a place in the academy, where is he now? I know he played AIL for Belvo last year. Not like we've got a conveyer belt of massive 12's in this country...

Buer

He's with Connacht. Hasn't kicked on too much there either.

The Lost Sheep

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Slightly related to that, what happened to Peter Robb? No idea why he wasn't offered a place in the academy, where is he now? I know he played AIL for Belvo last year. Not like we've got a conveyer belt of massive 12's in this country...

There is several other centres who were added/already in academy so Robb wasn't given a place in academy. Robb is in the Connacht academy. He has been playing UBL and Eagles games

molloyjh

Watching Against The Head here and they reckon Matt O'Connor is doing a good job. Not in the top 4 and likely not going to make the top 4. Lost at home to the Dragons. 8 points from 20 during the 6 Nations. They are aware of these things right?

And I'm sick of Daire O'Briens sneering condescension when it comes to fans/supporters. His attitude is appalling.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Watching Against The Head here and they reckon Matt O'Connor is doing a good job. Not in the top 4 and likely not going to make the top 4. Lost at home to the Dragons. 8 points from 20 during the 6 Nations. They are aware of these things right?

And I'm sick of Daire O'Briens sneering condescension when it comes to fans/supporters. His attitude is appalling.

Yes, let's discuss Matt O'Connor again, that's always fun!

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

And I'm sick of Daire O'Briens sneering condescension when it comes to fans/supporters. His attitude is appalling.

That's his manner and always has been. It panders to a large number of rugby followers in this country.

I was on a stag in Galway, watching the game in a pub. In terms of people vocally supporting teams, our group was supporting Leinster but I didn't hear anyone else doing so with a good number of people cheering on Bath and baiting Leinster.

It's nothing new nor is it isolated in the way people claim.

Tox56

molloyjh wrote: »

Watching Against The Head here and they reckon Matt O'Connor is doing a good job. Not in the top 4 and likely not going to make the top 4. Lost at home to the Dragons. 8 points from 20 during the 6 Nations. They are aware of these things right?

And I'm sick of Daire O'Briens sneering condescension when it comes to fans/supporters. His attitude is appalling.

Everything about Daire O'Brien as a host is terrible

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

Watching Against The Head here and they reckon Matt O'Connor is doing a good job. Not in the top 4 and likely not going to make the top 4. Lost at home to the Dragons. 8 points from 20 during the 6 Nations. They are aware of these things right?

We won the league and blazed a trail through the 6 Nations window last season but you and many others weren't satisfied. It's just people looking at things differently, taking varying viewpoints on the same facts.

We agree on Daire O'Brien though, if that's any consolation.

Edit : I didn't see ATH tonight so don't know exactly what was said.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, let's discuss Matt O'Connor again, that's always fun!

This isn't an intro into discussing MOC, but the attitude held by some pundits towards fans who aren't positive about anything and everything related to their team. Lenihan was talking about there being no atmosphere and how that impacted Leinsters performance. It's hard to get atmosphere going in the Aviva for starters when there's a large social or casual element to it, even more so for a team that has been stuttering badly all season. And as we've seen repeatedly if you give the crowd something to shout about they will. It's not a totally one way thing, which Donal would have had us all believe this evening.

They spent more time knocking the fans than they did doing anything even resembling analysis of the match itself. They spoke about expectations set by Joes Leinster and "the geniuses on twitter and social media" as well as saying that MOC is doing a very good job. The most negative comment was Quinny saying that Leinster have been "a little bit up and down this season".

Did they talk about issues in the midfield? Or the number of missed tackles? Of course they didn't. The fans, it seems, aren't allowed to criticise these things and the analysts aren't interested in analysing them.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

We won the league and blazed a trail through the 6 Nations window last season but you and many others weren't satisfied. It's just people looking at things differently, taking varying viewpoints on the same facts.

We agree on Daire O'Brien though, if that's any consolation.

How we did last season has no bearing on this season. And while I was happy with our results I was worried about our performances last season. This isn't intended as an intro into going over this ground again though so I'll leave it there.