Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

CatFromHue

molloyjh wrote: »

They spoke about expectations set by Joes Leinster and "the geniuses on twitter and social media" as well as saying that MOC is doing a very good job.

In fairness compared to the rest of the internet this site is incredibly sane.

There's some amount of ****e said about MOC and Leinster on the internet

Tox56

total former wrote: »

We won the league and blazed a trail through the 6 Nations window last season but you and many others weren't satisfied. It's just people looking at things differently, taking varying viewpoints on the same facts.

The two seasons didn't happen in isolation. What happened this season didn't happen overnight, it arguably isn't even a surprise when you look at the performances of last year

SaveOurLyric

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, let's discuss Matt O'Connor again, that's always fun!

Agree that its worth discussing him - he is the dominant issue to be resolved facing Leinster at the moment. Even winning the ECC shouldnt save him at this stage. Not sure fun is the word though. Unfortunately the prospects for next year are too important for that. Still fingers cross there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes to recruit someone top notch.

LostArt

molloyjh wrote: »

Watching Against The Head here and they reckon Matt O'Connor is doing a good job. Not in the top 4 and likely not going to make the top 4. Lost at home to the Dragons. 8 points from 20 during the 6 Nations. They are aware of these things right?

And I'm sick of Daire O'Briens sneering condescension when it comes to fans/supporters. His attitude is appalling.

I saw it, it was absolutely appalling analysis. You'd have to wonder if any of them have actually watched Leinster this season.

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness compared to the rest of the internet this site is incredibly sane.

There's some amount of ****e said about MOC and Leinster on the internet

Maybe, but all criticism is being written off as nonsense by them. All of it. I'm coming to the conclusion that the show is a waste of time. When you have someone like Birch on you might get some technical stuff but other than that it's desperately bland and uncontroversial.

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

How we did last season has no bearing on this season.

Agreed, just highlighting how two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions.

P_1

molloyjh wrote: »

This isn't an intro into discussing MOC, but the attitude held by some pundits towards fans who aren't positive about anything and everything related to their team. Lenihan was talking about there being no atmosphere and how that impacted Leinsters performance. It's hard to get atmosphere going in the Aviva for starters when there's a large social or casual element to it, even more so for a team that has been stuttering badly all season. And as we've seen repeatedly if you give the crowd something to shout about they will. It's not a totally one way thing, which Donal would have had us all believe this evening.

They spent more time knocking the fans than they did doing anything even resembling analysis of the match itself. They spoke about expectations set by Joes Leinster and "the geniuses on twitter and social media" as well as saying that MOC is doing a very good job. The most negative comment was Quinny saying that Leinster have been "a little bit up and down this season".

Did they talk about issues in the midfield? Or the number of missed tackles? Of course they didn't. The fans, it seems, aren't allowed to criticise these things and the analysts aren't interested in analysing them.

That's the key here. Certain expectations were set, not about a trophy every season, but in standards of play. Standards that have, suffice to say, slipped. Now is it not fair to question why these standards have slipped?

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Maybe, but all criticism is being written off as nonsense by them. All of it. I'm coming to the conclusion that the show is a waste of time. When you have someone like Birch on you might get some technical stuff but other than that it's desperately bland and uncontroversial.

Molloy, you're just a little sheep. Now act like a sheep, shut your mouth and be fed the real truth by our grand all-knowing RTE overlords.

SaveOurLyric

total former wrote: »

Winning Europe shouldn't save him?

No. It would be simplistic and shortsighted if it did.

total former wrote: »

If the ATH pundits read that, they'd be well within their rights to call it out for what it is.

Possibly, but from the reports of their comments heremaybe not. Hopefully though, the ATH gang would see the light and acknowledge 'it' as reasoned and deep insight judgement on the poor performance of MOC given the resources available to him. And recognise that Leinster deserves better and should be playing a higher standard of rugby week in week out.

irishbucsfan

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

No. It would be simplistic and shortsighted if it did.

Yes the last thing we should be doing is applying a simplistic and shortsighted hiring/firing philosophy on our coaching. Luckily the management aren't doing so.

total former

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

No. It would be simplistic and shortsighted if it did.



Possibly, but from the reports of their comments heremaybe not. Hopefully though, the ATH gang would see the light and acknowledge 'it' as reasoned and deep insight judgement on the poor performance of MOC given the resources available to him. And recognise that Leinster deserves better and should be playing a higher standard of rugby week in week out.

I deleted my first post because I thought you were being tongue in cheek and I had missed it.

I still don't believe you're serious. No one could possibly think like that.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

Agreed, just highlighting how two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions.

Differing conclusions and opinions are fine. Utterly rejecting and looking down your nose at differing conclusions and opinions is not (unless they are obviously completely off the wall, Jim Corr style). I've no problem with, for example, your opinion despite the fact that we don't agree. If I were to speak about you and your opinion in the manner that some pundits do about fans who criticise MOC though......

BoardsMember

I haven't been able to watch against the head for some time. They actually say precious little for all the chat, no insightfulness, lots of platitudes and fence sitting. As for that red faced fool Sheehan grinning like an idiot, he makes me want to throw things at the telly.

.ak

Buer wrote: »

He's with Connacht. Hasn't kicked on too much there either.

Wouldn't expect him too either. He was only playing u20s last year. Personally I think we were mad letting a big 12 like that go, he played at a very decent standard at ail level but won't make it onto a senior team like Connacht straight away. Needs some b&i time first IMO.

Flipper22

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I'm not so sure. A halfback pairing of Murray and Keatley would be quite similar in standard to one of Reddan/Boss and Sexton. Munster's first-choice backline from 11-15 would be stronger than Leinster's, but Leinster have greater depth.

Leinster's backline is the weakest its been in a long time. The academy is churning out some very good forwards, but you've to go back 9/10 years since any great backs have broken through. Is Ringrose the next big prospect?

Wouldn't agree that Munsters 11-15 is stronger. In fact there's a lot of similarities; problems at 9 (depth in the case of munster), 10, 12. Lots of good players in the back three. We even have an extremely talented, injury hampered superstar wing slash 13 each!

I think Leinsters midfield is the weakest its been in a long time, not the whole backline. Especially ten and twelve. It's very difficult to do anything in attack with Gopperth and Madigan there. Jonny will fix 10. As for 12, maybe a Te'o/Fitz combo? With Jonny we won't need Madigans goalkicking. I think Te'o is going to be a very useful union player in the not too distant future.

As for Ringrose, he's got tons of talent but I'd fear there may be a touch of the Darren Caves about him. I'm not sure he's a good enough athlete for the top level. Hope I'm wrong.

Heroditas

I'd agree with a lot of the opinions here regarding ATH but I was very surprised to hear Lenihan have a pop at the IRFU "suits" tonight. Fair play to him.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

That's his manner and always has been. It panders to a large number of rugby followers in this country.

I was on a stag in Galway, watching the game in a pub. In terms of people vocally supporting teams, our group was supporting Leinster but I didn't hear anyone else doing so with a good number of people cheering on Bath and baiting Leinster.

It's nothing new nor is it isolated in the way people claim.

What pub were you in? I watched it in a pub in town and everyone in the pub who was showing any interest in the game was very much behind Leinster, load of applause when the final whistle went. Was it a pub where you might find a lot of stags, say, from another province further south? I would think most locals who have even a passing interest in rugby would be supportive of whatever Irish province is playing, certainly not supporting an English club instead...

padser

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, let's discuss Matt O'Connor again, that's always fun!

To be fair, no one, from either side of the debate actually wants to be talking about MOC.

The problem for those of us who look at Leinsters performances, find them wanting and believe the coach should take some of the blame for that, is that it's difficult to look at more poor Leinster performances and not bring it up :-)

Trust me though, no one here enjoys talking about him (except possible those among us who just enjoying arguing)

Larbre34

Considering ATH dont have the rights to show highlights and as such cannot analyse the match itself, rather just throw brickbats at the wary and slighty jaded Leinster fans, i wouldnt exactly go rushing to take note of their opinions on the matter.

phog

Zzippy wrote: »

What pub were you in? I watched it in a pub in town and everyone in the pub who was showing any interest in the game was very much behind Leinster, load of applause when the final whistle went. Was it a pub where you might find a lot of stags, say, from another province further south? I would think most locals who have even a passing interest in rugby would be supportive of whatever Irish province is playing, certainly not supporting an English club instead...

That's it, shove the blame south.

Fwiw, at work all week anyone with a passing interest in rugby were hoping the two Irish provinces would win their respective QFs.

Also, on MFs most of the posters there wished both provinces well so I don't get why you want to deflect the negative vibe towards Munster, would expect more from a mod but there you go.

sydthebeat

P_1 wrote: »

That's the key here. Certain expectations were set, not about a trophy every season, but in standards of play. Standards that have, suffice to say, slipped. Now is it not fair to question why these standards have slipped?

Probably because our first choice 9, 10, 12 and 13 are at different stages of their careers and are particularly average currently.

SaveOurLyric

sydthebeat wrote: »

Probably because our first choice 9, 10, 12 and 13 are at different stages of their careers and are particularly average currently.

Since when has having your 9,10,12,13 at the same stages of their careers been relevant to their play as a group ?

sydthebeat

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Since when has having your 9,10,12,13 at the same stages of their careers been relevant to their play as a group ?

Don't half quote me

Zzippy

phog wrote: »

That's it, shove the blame south.

Fwiw, at work all week anyone with a passing interest in rugby were hoping the two Irish provinces would win their respective QFs.

Also, on MFs most of the posters there wished both provinces well so I don't get why you want to deflect the negative vibe towards Munster, would expect more from a mod but there you go.

Chill the beans there, I've been in pubs in Munster when Leinster were on the tv playing knockout HEC games against English clubs and I was the only one in the whole place cheering for Leinster. That's firsthand experience. I know several mates who have had the same experience, some of them are Munster fans who seem to take pride in it. I'm glad to hear posters on MFs wished Leinster well, but my point stands. And you can leave out the mod stuff, if you think my post breaks the charter report it, otherwise leave out the passive aggressive nonsense.

SaveOurLyric

sydthebeat wrote: »

Don't half quote me

Because the being particularly average currently part I follow (as a contention, though not necessarily agreeing with).
Hence the partial quote - the different stages of their careers bit being an aspect that I have not before come across as being a contributor to bad play as a group, the bit I dont follow.

sydthebeat

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Because the being particularly average currently part I follow (as a contention, though not necessarily agreeing with).
Hence the partial quote - the different stages of their careers bit being an aspect that I have not before come across as being a contributor to bad play as a group, the bit I dont follow.

Of course it's relevant.
Boss, reddan and darcy are in the twilight of their careers.
Madigan as a 12 is relatively new.
Teo is practically a novice union 13.

Of course these things are relevant to the question asked as to why our standards have dropped.

phog

Zzippy wrote: »

Chill the beans there, I've been in pubs in Munster when Leinster were on the tv playing knockout HEC games against English clubs and I was the only one in the whole place cheering for Leinster. That's firsthand experience. I know several mates who have had the same experience, some of them are Munster fans who seem to take pride in it. I'm glad to hear posters on MFs wished Leinster well, but my point stands. And you can leave out the mod stuff, if you think my post breaks the charter report it, otherwise leave out the passive aggressive nonsense.

I've met Connacht lads who hate the sight of Leinster winning anything so perhaps they're the guys that the OP met in Galway.

I still can't see why if you feel they weren't typical Connacht/Galway people that you felt the needed to point the finger at Munster.

Tbh, you're post was bang out of order.

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

That's it, shove the blame south.

Fwiw, at work all week anyone with a passing interest in rugby were hoping the two Irish provinces would win their respective QFs.

Also, on MFs most of the posters there wished both provinces well so I don't get why you want to deflect the negative vibe towards Munster, would expect more from a mod but there you go.

I have a lot of respect for Munster fans but there is definitely a larger contingent of them who will actively root against Leinster than I've seen at any other province. That's anecdotal as well, but it's also been my experience.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for Munster fans but there is definitely a larger contingent of them who will actively root against Leinster than I've seen at any other province. That's anecdotal as well, but it's also been my experience.

Yes and in Kilkenny in 2006 I met Leinster fans who didn't want Munster to win the final. So what?

My point was a poster said he met folk in a pub in Galway who were shouting against Leinster but zzippy had to try and blame Munster and he wasn't even there. Mad, isn't it?

thomond2006

I hate Leinster. I bought a Leinster season ticket to save the supporters from the dark side. Going to all those Leinster matches, talk about personal sacrifice like.

I give molloyjh and .ak another year before they emigrate to Limerick and become Munster heads.