Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

FR2

salmocab wrote: »

Any chance we might get 2 Landsdowne road matches out of the group and play munster in the RDS this season? Might depend on dates and who the back to back is against.

Being third seed will probably mean our back to back games will be against Wasps!!!!!!

salmocab

FR2 wrote: »

Being third seed will probably mean our back to back games will be against Wasps!!!!!!

that might work though, home christmas match v wasps and the home toulon depending on when it is

molloyjh

FR2 wrote: »

Being third seed will probably mean our back to back games will be against Wasps!!!!!!

Back to back games are decided on commercialability, not seeding though......

Podge_irl

I imagine the back-to-backs will be decided on whether or not BT want an all-England match-up or to change it up. I think Leinster-Bath is more likely to be honest.

awec

They might want Leinster v Toulon (or the opposite) as a big fixture for the opening weekend.

stephen_n

total former wrote: »

Giteau, Mitchell, Cooper, Tillous-Borde, Habana, Nonu, Vermeulen, O'Connell, Fernandez-Lobbe, Bastareaud, JM Hernandez, Juan Smith, Guirado, Chiocci, Gorgodze could all be involved. Maybe even Freddie Michalak...

Edit: forgot Halfpenny, and Chilachava

I assume he is referring to the depth they have compared to any other team.

CatFromHue

It's a harder group than I'd have liked but that's life.

I wouldn't be all doom and gloom either as we beat Bath and picked up a good few match points against Wasps this season then there's the fact that Toulon usually lose one away game in the pools, and you could argue that they played Ulster at a great time this season as Ulster were missing Tuohy and Pienaar.

total former

stephen_n wrote: »

I assume he is referring to the depth they have compared to any other team.

Even so, there's definitely a case to argue that Toulon will be weaker early on. There's going to be a lot of turnover in their pack especially and that may take time to gel, as well as the absence of 90% of their first team for the RWC.

awec

Your problem will be that it's very unlikely there'll be more than 1 team that goes through from your group. You are probably going to have to win it.

matthew8

awec wrote: »

Your problem will be that it's very unlikely there'll be more than 1 team that goes through from your group. You are probably going to have to win it.

17 points got Saracens through last year, so winning 4 should definitely be enough. If we can simply get the players onto the pitch and get a decent new head coach I'd be confident of that. We should be able for 3 home wins and one away. Leinster back to anything near their best should expect to win home to Toulon (who it could still be argued aren't great away, beating a decimated Ulster team but losing to a Leicester team also missing several) and away to Wasps.

.ak

awec wrote: »

Your problem will be that it's very unlikely there'll be more than 1 team that goes through from your group. You are probably going to have to win it.

No problemo.

On the plus side I hear O'Connell stipulated in his contract that he wouldn't play against Leinster for Toulon.

RichieRich89

.ak wrote: »

It's not comparable. Are you comparing Leo Cullen to Schmidt?

And you haven't answered my question - is Leo Cullen a better coach than Matt O'Connor?

I don't know. It's difficult to say. It's comparing apples and oranges as Cullen is a forwards coach. There's always a bit of a danger when the head guy is a forwards coach that the gameplan will be too geared towards winning the pack battle and there'll be a bit of a failure to see the bigger picture

But to answer your question, no, there's very little evidence for the viewer looking in from the outside that Cullen is a better coach than MOC. I wouldn't make that claim, but I will say that in the context of the situation at the finish of last season I'm happy to have Cullen in place of O'Connor now. Cullen in place of MOC means we can have Dempsey and McQuilkin involved. MOC didn't like using the academy backs so it's good that he's gone from that regard. What was MOC bringing to the table that the new ticket can't? Dealing with the media? Being a hard taskmaster?

.ak

RichieRich89 wrote: »

I don't know. It's difficult to say. It's comparing apples and oranges as Cullen is a forwards coach. There's always a bit of a danger when the head guy is a forwards coach that the gameplan will be too geared towards winning the pack battle and there'll be a bit of a failure to see the bigger picture

But to answer your question, no, there's very little evidence for the viewer looking in from the outside that Cullen is a better coach than MOC. I wouldn't make that claim, but I will say that in the context of the situation at the finish of last season I'm happy to have Cullen in place of O'Connor now. Cullen in place of MOC means we can have Dempsey and McQuilkin involved. MOC didn't like using the academy backs so it's good that he's gone from that regard. What was MOC bringing to the table that the new ticket can't? Dealing with the media? Being a hard taskmaster?

Well if you were to believe the players he's very tactically astute. Now I know things didn't work out that way for whatever reasons but the players thought highly of his game plan and tactics and backline moves.

The real question for me is why didn't it work. You don't get the accolades I mentioned earlier by being a poor coach, but why couldn't he get leinster to gel like he got Leicester to?

For me I reckon the answer is more in line with Jenno's remarks, which makes me very worried, because if a high calibre coach like MOC couldn't fix that then who can?

bunnyarmstrong

Just realised the last three teams we played in Europe will be our first three next season. Slooooooowwww.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Well if you were to believe the players he's very tactically astute. Now I know things didn't work out that way for whatever reasons but the players thought highly of his game plan and tactics and backline moves.

The real question for me is why didn't it work. You don't get the accolades I mentioned earlier by being a poor coach, but why couldn't he get leinster to gel like he got Leicester to?

For me I reckon the answer is more in line with Jenno's remarks, which makes me very worried, because if a high calibre coach like MOC couldn't fix that then who can?

You're dealing too much in absolutes and only the Sith deal in absolutes - Darth .AK...

We could get a less tactical coach that gets more out of the team simply through the way they engage with them. There are a massive number of variables why things do or do not work and small changes can yield big results.

We could also get a coach who is tactically equal to MOC but better grasps the available assets and tailors specifically for that.

I've said it plenty of times, the talent is there and more coming through. We just need the right person to manage what we have as best as possible.

All the talk about MOC being let go, my understanding is that he had made it clear sometime between the IRFU incident and shortly after the Ulster game that if the powers that be weren't happy that he would be prepared to agree an exit but wanted to see out his contact and Leinster decided that they wanted him gone. The fact that he suggested it probably gave Leinster not that much choice, but they had the final say and pulled the plug.

Bringing Leinster to where they are leads me to believe that those running the club are no fools and probably had good reasons to move things on. I also think that this will be treated as a learning experience and truth be told I think after the last 5 years I reckon a bad bloody nose and a kick up the ar$e will do wonders for the team over the next 5 years.

I still think that by the time we have our friendly up in Ravenhill, a new coach will have been appointed and it will be a signing that makes sense. What I would *HATE* to happen is that we sign the best person that is interested and available even if there are reasonable doubts about them.

On a separate note, I saw Gopps in Carrickmines last weekend, chap looked like he just stepped off the set of the original point break. Seriously chill head about him. He was heading into Lifestyle with what I presume was the family. I thought it would be hilarious if I said they didn't stock Wasps jerseys but then repeated it back in my head and realised it would be a bit of a wankerish think to say so just pretended like I didn't see him. I reckon he was completely oblivious to the whole thing....

.ak

I'd say Gopps is a massive point break fan.

thomond2006

Toulon in the RDS would be awesome.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

Toulon in the RDS would be awesome.

I agree. I don't think it would suit Toulon either.

thomond2006

vienne86 wrote: »

I agree. I don't think it would suit Toulon either.

I want to stand in the Anglesea in a Toulon POC shirt.

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

Your problem will be that it's very unlikely there'll be more than 1 team that goes through from your group. You are probably going to have to win it.

It's a tough group but it's going to be open enough I think. I wouldn't be surprised if Toulon were to lose a couple of games on the road

Stheno

Guys, what do you normally buy season tickets wise from this list?

http://www.leinsterseasontickets.ie/tickets

Silver?

stephen_n

total former wrote: »

Even so, there's definitely a case to argue that Toulon will be weaker early on. There's going to be a lot of turnover in their pack especially and that may take time to gel, as well as the absence of 90% of their first team for the RWC.

Our biggest hope with Toulon is they will have a big T14 fixture at home either side of our home game with them, whatever about Bath and Wasps we won't be winning on the road against Toulon, no matter when the fixture is.

molloyjh

Stheno wrote: »

Guys, what do you normally buy season tickets wise from this list?

http://www.leinsterseasontickets.ie/tickets

Silver?

We're all over the place here I think. Terrace myself, which is Bronze. There's a few on the North & South stands and then there's that posh feckers like ak in the Angelsea Stand with their prawn sandwiches and port. Literally looking down on us terrace folk.

Stheno

molloyjh wrote: »

We're all over the place here I think. Terrace myself, which is Bronze. There's a few on the North & South stands and then there's that posh feckers like ak in the Angelsea Stand with their prawn sandwiches and port. Literally looking down on us terrace folk.

Jaypers I didn't even notice bronze

I'd just like to have a seat as opposed to the terraces, which I understand are standing (I'm old and creaking)

Will silver give me that? And I'm trying to introduce the OH to games, and know he'd like a seat?

The posh feckers with their port and sammiches don't interest me

CatFromHue

North and South Stands are all seating, non assigned seating so it's first come first served at every game. The benefit of sitting here is that if you get a ticket for a friend or someone who isn't a season ticket holder there's no problem with you all sitting together.

In the Anglesea and Grandstand it is assigned seats so you have that seat for the whole season but so do your neighbours.

molloyjh

Stheno wrote: »

Jaypers I didn't even notice bronze

I'd just like to have a seat as opposed to the terraces, which I understand are standing (I'm old and creaking)

Will silver give me that? And I'm trying to introduce the OH to games, and know he'd like a seat?

The posh feckers with their port and sammiches don't interest me

Yeah everywhere other than the terrace is seated. Although a word of warning re the silver tickets. They are North and South stand which is unreserved and unsheltered. So if it's pissing rain you're caught out in it. Everywhere else is sheltered to some degree or other.

Stheno

CatFromHue wrote: »

North and South Stands are all seating, non assigned seating so it's first come first served at every game. The benefit of sitting here is that if you get a ticket for a friend or someone who isn't a season ticket holder there's no problem with you all sitting together.

In the Anglesea and Grandstand it is assigned seats so you have that seat for the whole season but so do your neighbours.

Thank you! That sounds ideal, looks like I'll be going for two silver tickets so

Stheno

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah everywhere other than the terrace is seated. Although a word of warning re the silver tickets. They are North and South stand which is unreserved and unsheltered. So if it's pissing rain you're caught out in it. Everywhere else is sheltered to some degree or other.

Hmm are the terraces sheltered?

I'm not shelling out for gold tickets, can't afford that much

molloyjh

Stheno wrote: »

Hmm are the terraces sheltered?

I'm not shelling out for gold tickets, can't afford that much

All but right down the very front. I've almost never gotten rained on standing in there myself over the last few years. It's been almost freaky how the weather has panned out for us on match days. The only thing about the terrace is the views of certain parts of the pitch can be a bit crap. But it's only the far end of the pitch on the same side. The rest is fine. On busy days you need to get in early too to secure your spot. Other than that it's good craic.