Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

.ak · 03-07-2015 1:56pm

awec wrote: »

For the 100000th time, if Madigan wants to grow as a player he needs to leave Leinster. There are better players (or better prospects) than him in all of his positions at Leinster.

There isn't a better back up 10 (if you consider that a position)

molloyjh · 03-07-2015 2:03pm

.ak wrote: »

There isn't a better back up 10 (if you consider that a position)

Not yet there isn't. That's not to say that Marsh and/or Byrne won't step up this season though. It's easy to say we've no other options when we haven't tried any other options.

thomond2006 · 03-07-2015 2:32pm

I think Madigan will be a London Irish player in 2016/17.

vienne86 · 04-07-2015 9:24am

molloyjh wrote: »

Not yet there isn't. That's not to say that Marsh and/or Byrne won't step up this season though. It's easy to say we've no other options when we haven't tried any other options.

Really looking forward to seeing these two during the WC. If one of them really steps us, then yes, I think Madigan would have to go.

JPNelsforearm · 04-07-2015 9:54am

vienne86 wrote: »

Really looking forward to seeing these two during the WC. If one of them really steps us, then yes, I think Madigan would have to go.

And then Sexton breaks something or twangs a hammy...

awec · 06-07-2015 11:17am

.ak wrote: »

There isn't a better back up 10 (if you consider that a position)

That's not a position. At least not if he wants a decent international career.

thomond2006 · 06-07-2015 11:46am

.ak wrote: »

There isn't a better back up 10 (if you consider that a position)

Yeah...no. PJ is comfortably better. Someone like Earls at 23 negates the need for a versatile backup 10.

total former · 06-07-2015 11:48am

awec wrote: »

That's not a position. At least not if he wants a decent international career.

If the choice is between staying as back-up at Leinster or moving to another team, either Connacht or outside Ireland, then staying at Leinster is definitely better for his international career.

irishbucsfan · 06-07-2015 11:58am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yeah...no. PJ is comfortably better. Someone like Earls at 23 negates the need for a versatile backup 10.

For Leinster, there isn't a better backup.

awec · 06-07-2015 11:59am

total former wrote: »

If the choice is between staying as back-up at Leinster or moving to another team, either Connacht or outside Ireland, then staying at Leinster is definitely better for his international career.

Long term? I think not.

He'd be better going somewhere else for a few seasons and then coming back to Leinster a better player. No guarantee that he'll get better obviously even if he is first choice elsewhere but if he is happy with a bit part role a the RDS then he'll never improve.

Clearlier · 06-07-2015 12:07pm

awec wrote: »

That's not a position. At least not if he wants a decent international career.

awec wrote: »

Long term? I think not.

He'd be better going somewhere else for a few seasons and then coming back to Leinster a better player. No guarantee that he'll get better obviously even if he is first choice elsewhere but if he is happy with a bit part role a the RDS then he'll never improve.

I do kind of wonder if Madigan's best position isn't on the bench for both Leinster and Ireland. I know that it's a totally non-traditional way of thinking about a team but it does seem as if he has peculiar qualities which make him particularly well suited as a substitute.

total former · 06-07-2015 12:08pm

awec wrote: »

Long term? I think not.

He'd be better going somewhere else for a few seasons and then coming back to Leinster a better player. No guarantee that he'll get better obviously even if he is first choice elsewhere but if he is happy with a bit part role a the RDS then he'll never improve.

Long long term, I don't know, but as long as Joe is in charge of Ireland I don't think it's an issue, he knows exactly what Madigan is about and what he can do. I also think Jackson has a fair bit to go before he's nailed down as the second-best outhalf in Ireland, he has the talent no doubt but that's what we all said about Madigan in 2013...

In the short and medium term, Sexton is a player who will miss a lot of games for Leinster, both due to his pretty terrible injury record and to international commitments, Madigan is going to get decent game time and in meaningful games.

I don't think he is happy with a bit part role. He knows he can't displace Sexton, no-one could, but he's come out previously and said he'll give it a lash for the 12 jersey. Based on what we've seen so far, he's not a great 12 but he has the skills for it, maybe he just needs time.

There's no easy answer for Madigan, but moving to England or wherever might mean falling off the radar completely for international selection.

awec · 06-07-2015 12:17pm

Jackson is head, shoulders, knees and toes ahead of the rest of the pretenders at 10 right now. There is no question about that in my mind.

The rest of your post is a fair point, but I don't see IM as having much of a future at 12. I think he's going to be spending a lot of time on the bench for Leinster.

.ak · 06-07-2015 12:21pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yeah...no. PJ is comfortably better. Someone like Earls at 23 negates the need for a versatile backup 10.

Leinster thread.

ArmchairQB · 06-07-2015 12:27pm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

And then Sexton breaks something or twangs a hammy...

Same happened to Doctor Phil and then along came Johnnnyyyyy

total former · 06-07-2015 12:49pm

awec wrote: »

Jackson is head, shoulders, knees and toes ahead of the rest of the pretenders at 10 right now. There is no question about that in my mind.

The rest of your post is a fair point, but I don't see IM as having much of a future at 12. I think he's going to be spending a lot of time on the bench for Leinster.

I don't think Madigan has much potential at 12 either, I was more just highlighting that he's being realistic about his chances at ousting Sexton.

Re: Jackson, I think he's a long way from being a proven out-half to be honest. I wouldn't make any great claims for Madigan either, and Keatley is just not good enough, but I don't really see Jackson as being that much better (yet).

iamjenko · 06-07-2015 12:51pm

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_60387,00.html

Hopefully just Cheika stirring. I dont think he was all that impressive last season but he had a long year so hopefully he can bring more to the party next season. We'd be in a right pickle if he did a Sykes on us

total former · 06-07-2015 1:00pm

Full story:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-world-cup/michael-cheika-says-kane-douglas-could-yet-be-a-factor-in-2015-rugby-world-cup-20150706-gi69hl.html

Sounds like nothing in it, that Cheika was asked about it and gave a pretty non-commital answer.

It would be an awful kick in the nuts for us, at least during the RWC.

molloyjh · 06-07-2015 1:11pm

total former wrote: »

I don't think Madigan has much potential at 12 either, I was more just highlighting that he's being realistic about his chances at ousting Sexton.

Re: Jackson, I think he's a long way from being a proven out-half to be honest. I wouldn't make any great claims for Madigan either, and Keatley is just not good enough, but I don't really see Jackson as being that much better (yet).

Jackson is light years ahead of Mads in fairness. He brings in those around him far better and far more consistently. His kicking from hand may not be up to the level we'd like but then Mads is hardly international class in that regard either. PJ doesn't have the same range of skills but he utilises the skillset he has better. Pecking order should be, and seemingly is, Sexton, Jackson, Keatley, Mads. Versatility is the only reason Mads gets ahead of others on the bench. He's behind at least 2 or 3 others to start in any other position he can play.

total former · 06-07-2015 1:31pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Jackson is light years ahead of Mads in fairness. He brings in those around him far better and far more consistently. His kicking from hand may not be up to the level we'd like but then Mads is hardly international class in that regard either. PJ doesn't have the same range of skills but he utilises the skillset he has better. Pecking order should be, and seemingly is, Sexton, Jackson, Keatley, Mads. Versatility is the only reason Mads gets ahead of others on the bench. He's behind at least 2 or 3 others to start in any other position he can play.

Like I said, I'm not pimping Madigan here at all, merely that I'm reserving judgement on Jackson until he has done it at international level or consistently in big matches for Ulster.

stephen_n · 06-07-2015 1:37pm

Time is running out for Madigan at Leinster, with players coming through who can potentially play better at 10 and 12, if he doesn't cement his place somewhere in the team this season, he'll be bench warming a lot and that won't do anything for his international hopes.

.ak · 06-07-2015 4:02pm

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13689.php#.VZqYNNLF9Mv

We could very well miss KD and ZK for the RWC.

Is KD the only player not based in Australia to be called up?

justsomebloke · 06-07-2015 4:04pm

total former wrote: »

Full story:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-world-cup/michael-cheika-says-kane-douglas-could-yet-be-a-factor-in-2015-rugby-world-cup-20150706-gi69hl.html

Sounds like nothing in it, that Cheika was asked about it and gave a pretty non-commital answer.

It would be an awful kick in the nuts for us, at least during the RWC.

and he has been called up

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13689.php#.VZqYAflVhBd

Sangre · 06-07-2015 4:04pm

.ak wrote: »

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13689.php#.VZqYNNLF9Mv

We could very well miss KD and ZK for the RWC.

Is KD the only player not based in Australia to be called up?

Some of the Toulon squad have been called up.

Australia must be struggling in second row if they're calling KD from overseas.

total former · 06-07-2015 4:08pm

justsomebloke wrote: »

and he has been called up

Ha! Shows what I know.

What are the Wallabies playing at though? First they relax the playing abroad rule, now they just throw it out the window. (And for Kane Douglas?)

dub_skav · 06-07-2015 4:08pm

How does Douglas meet eligibility criteria?
I thought the recent relaxation was only for players with long service and loads of caps, nit sure where he fits in at all.

Edit: As posited by total_former above

06-07-2015 4:09pm

That's less than ideal for Leinster!

.ak · 06-07-2015 4:11pm

justsomebloke wrote: »

and he has been called up

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13689.php#.VZqYAflVhBd

That is SO 9 minutes ago. :cool:

total former · 06-07-2015 4:11pm

Unless, of course, he does meet the requirements because he's signed up for next season's Super Rugby...

awec · 06-07-2015 4:16pm

total former wrote: »

Unless, of course, he does meet the requirements because he's signed up for next season's Super Rugby...

Dawson's comments indicate Leinster expect him back.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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