Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

My suspicion on the KD thing is he wants to leave. It's very hard to keep a guy on the books if he's not happy. However, I think LR and AU came to an agreement to let him play for the Wallabies to keep him sweet and keep him in LR. Maybe a case of 'Go and try your hand at test footy again, if you're still not happy with that then we'll talk again'.

Nonsense .ak. What message would that send to players in Australia weighing giving up their international ambitions for europes riches. The ARU is never going to agree to what you suggest.

sydthebeat

i think its simply a case of cheika liking douglas enough to formally approach Leinster and say "look lads, me again, theres a competition happening close to you and im wondering of youd allow that lad that used to play for me to tog out for a few games. ive been chatting to him and he's mad keen" and leinster sez "hey mike, no probs... but look, we'd need some form of financial compo to do without him for the few weeks, what can you do for us"

Sangre

total former wrote: »

Edit: World Rugby Regulation 4.6.4

Interesting. So it seems to me that it would be the IRFU, rather than Leinster, that would need to block any move? Politically, it might be harder for the IRFU to be seen to block such moves.

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

Nonsense .ak. What message would that send to players in Australia weighing giving up their international ambitions for europes riches. The ARU is never going to agree to what you suggest.

Well the message has been well and truly sent already. Unless he leaves Leinster, and all indication is he won't, then they've already sent a message to the rest of the corps.... Basically you can go to France, Ireland, wherever and if Chieka likes you enough you'll probably play in a gold jersey at some point.

Podge_irl

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think its simply a case of cheika liking douglas enough to formally approach Leinster and say "look lads, me again, theres a competition happening close to you and im wondering of youd allow that lad that used to play for me to tog out for a few games. ive been chatting to him and he's mad keen" and leinster sez "hey mike, no probs... but look, we'd need some form of financial compo to do without him for the few weeks, what can you do for us"

That wouldn't make any sense. Leinster have no choice but to release him so the issue of financial compensation for that is non-existent. The problem is for the ARU if they select him while he's still contracted to Leinster - it completely undermines their position.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

Well the message has been well and truly sent already. Unless he leaves Leinster, and all indication is he won't, then they've already sent a message to the rest of the corps.... Basically you can go to France, Ireland, wherever and if Chieka likes you enough you'll probably play in a gold jersey at some point.

I would consider him being brought into the Aussie squad as an indication that he might...

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would consider him being brought into the Aussie squad as an indication that he might...

I'm just going on what his team manager has officially said.

Swiwi.

Two things a bit ironic about all this is that after getting brickbats all season people seem keen for him to stay...and on the other hand Aussie fans are thinking he is the next messiah from what I've read on their websites.

irishbucsfan

I want him to stay for 2 reasons. One, I think he's better than he played for us last season and I think he showed that in flashes. Two, I think he'd start a majority of games for us next season with Toner away. Without Kane Douglas we'll have McCarthy/Kearney/Denton and that's not really a great standard of players.

awec

I always thought the guy was decidedly average, has he really any chance of getting into the Wallabies WC squad?

total former

Swiwi. wrote: »

Two things a bit ironic about all this is that after getting brickbats all season people seem keen for him to stay...and on the other hand Aussie fans are thinking he is the next messiah from what I've read on their websites.

I think most of us accepted that his performances for Leinster weren't reflective of his ability; that he was probably knackered after coming straight in after the SH season ended and then got injured.

I was (am) looking forward to seeing what he could do after a rest and a proper pre-season, but if gets picked for the 4N and World Cup, then comes back to Leinster straight into Pro12 and HC action, we'll be back where we started.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

I'm just going on what his team manager has officially said.

Well what else do you really expect him to say?

I don't want him to leave as it's incredibly frustrating for him to go so close to the upcoming season when finding a replacement will be impossible. I don't think he's particularly great, but thought that he could possibly have shown more after a proper off-season, though this messes that up as well. To be honest, our need for him reflects more on our pretty ropey second row stocks than favourably on him.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

My suspicion on the KD thing is he wants to leave. It's very hard to keep a guy on the books if he's not happy. However, I think LR and AU came to an agreement to let him play for the Wallabies to keep him sweet and keep him in LR. Maybe a case of 'Go and try your hand at test footy again, if you're still not happy with that then we'll talk again'.

Leinster had to release him. They are not allowed to withhold him from international duty. Regulations state that the player must be available to train at least 5 full days prior to the start of the tournament. That's 12th July in this case. Factor in 2-3 days for flights and settling in time you're talking 9th-10th July leaving Dublin. They could have argued over the 3 or 4 days pre-season but if they want him to come back they were always far better to be decent about it. This isn't a case of Leinster agreeing anything with anyone. It's a case of Leinster having to just deal with it.

And ultimately I think it's the first step in Douglas heading home (assuming the rumours of the missus being pregnant and him not settling in great are true).

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

I think most of us accepted that his performances for Leinster weren't reflective of his ability; that he was probably knackered after coming straight in after the SH season ended and then got injured.

I was (am) looking forward to seeing what he could do after a rest and a proper pre-season, but if gets picked for the 4N and World Cup, then comes back to Leinster straight into Pro12 and HC action, we'll be back where we started.

This. He has gotten at least some sort of break as he finished up with Leinster at the start of March due to injury. So he'll have over 4 months with no game time before the RC starts. That's more than he had last season at least. It's still far from ideal though.

Tox56

awec wrote: »

I always thought the guy was decidedly average, has he really any chance of getting into the Wallabies WC squad?

He was on the bench vs Wales in the last Australian game before he announced his move to Leinster so I'd think he'd have a very realistic chance of at least making the squad

sydthebeat

Tox56 wrote: »

He was on the bench vs Wales in the last Australian game before he announced his move to Leinster so I'd think he'd have a very realistic chance of at least making the squad

they have lots of names, but very little quality in the second row, he could easily make at least the match day 23.

Simmons and Skelton are probably ahead of him (and Dennis too all being told)
Horwill has had a terrible season and only had a couple of half decent performances to the end of the season, but hes nowhere near where he was in 2011. i dont rate Arnold that much, though hes a newbie and worth the chance, and i cant understand how Luke Jones isnt there after being probably being a starter in most peoples eyes.
They also have many players who can fill that lock/flanker role with Mumm, Fardy and Dennis.

Ben Mowen might have also being at a prospect of a call, though Douglas tahs connection is probably why hes being called in.

minitrue

Chieka would probably have a very good idea of what sort of deals he might be able to construct to keep Leinster happy, so with the state of the Aussie finances (afaiu) rather then buying him out of the contract I'd expect to see something like an Aussie SH arriving (anyone about with the years/caps to meet their criteria) or even a big bunch of their WC stand-bys arriving on short term contracts (paid by the ARU) for the WC period when we would be missing all our WC players. Or maybe just a Leinster Vs Australia game every N years during the AIs.

Put another way, what would the Honey Badger in the Pro12 be worth to Leinster (and IRFU/Pro12) during the WC in terms of bums on seats, viewing figures and ability to be more competitive in the Pro12 during the WC (at the expense of throwing the youngsters to the wolves)?

Bottom line for me, if he wants to go it's just about maximising what we get in return for his release and Chieka's Leinster knowledge probably means he can help find imaginative ways to make it happen rather then just haggling over the number on a cheque.

Podge_irl

minitrue wrote: »

Put another way, what would the Honey Badger in the Pro12 be worth to Leinster (and IRFU/Pro12) during the WC in terms of bums on seats, viewing figures and ability to be more competitive in the Pro12 during the WC (at the expense of throwing the youngsters to the wolves)?

Very little. Would he be a better winger? Yes. Would more than about 5% of the regular rugby watching crowd know or care who is? I doubt it to be honest.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Would more than about 5% of the regular rugby watching crowd know or care who is?

One Late Late appearance later and...

Synode

Podge_irl wrote: »

Would more than about 5% of the regular rugby watching crowd know or care who is? I doubt it to be honest.

Surely yes. Any regular rugby watching person would know who he is

Podge_irl

Synode wrote: »

Surely yes. Any regular rugby watching person would know who he is

I would imagine the vast majority of regular rugby watching people in Europe don't have the first clue about Southern Hemisphere rugby.

Synode

I'd be in that category, But I know exactly who he is

Podge_irl

Fair enough. I know the majority of my friends wouldn't have the first clue. I mean, if you don't follow SXV why would you really?

total former

Is it relevant? If Douglas does want to go back to Australia, we're not going to see a plethora of other Aussie stars arriving on short-term contracts to soften the blow.

Synode

Podge_irl wrote: »

Fair enough. I know the majority of my friends wouldn't have the first clue. I mean, if you don't follow SXV why would you really?

I know him from the Lions tour and the last two Australian tests against Ireland.

Podge_irl

total former wrote: »

Is it relevant? If Douglas does want to go back to Australia, we're not going to see a plethora of other Aussie stars arriving on short-term contracts to soften the blow.

Absolutely not, just got sidetracked.

There is zero back and forth going on here to my mind. If Douglas leaves, he leaves but I would expect some kind of compensation. There is no bargaining going on wrt his release for the RC or RWC - Leinster have no cards to play there, they are obliged to release him.

minitrue

Sure there's no bargaining on the RC or WC, but if the ARU want to get him back in Australia afterwards so as not to make a shambles of their new selection policy they'll need to get him out of the Leinster contract which, as you say, will require some compensation. My real point is that with the state of the Aussie finances, and Chieka's knowledge, there's a lot more chance then there normally would be of some imaginative compensation deal being found rather then simply haggling over the number on a cheque.

I can see the ARU wanting to have stand-by players close by and match fit, hence I threw out that idea as one of the possible ways they could sweeten the pot.

As for who knows the Honey Badger, his quotes/interviews (and photos of the fans in wigs) would mean the odds of running across him would be far more likely then the average SXV player. Throw in the whole story about his move to Japan and that's more news coverage the average rugby supporter would have been likely to run into.

Then as Venjur says one Late Late show appearance later ...

I guess I should have just said I saw him having a pint with Girve and Leo in the Horseshow House last night

Swiwi.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/07/08/no-rules-bent-kane-douglas-fits-world-cup-puzzle/

total former

The more I think about this, the more I think we'll be Douglasless next season.

The statement from Easterby says:

We have been in discussions with the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) and with Kane for a few weeks now and we have made our position very clear

If this was a simple request to release a player for international duty, there would be no discussions, Leinster just have to let him go, so what could possibly have taken "a few weeks", unless there's something more behind it?

total former

Now that I think about it even more, the only possible explanation is that Douglas was so outraged by Leinster's treatment of his compatriot Matt O'Connor that he's storming off in protest.