Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

ArmchairQB · 14-07-2015 11:11am

total former wrote: »

Wouldn't rule out a promotion for Dempsey yet, but announcing him as senior backs coach (or whatever) would be basically admitting now that there will be no new head coach coming in and I don't think we're at that point yet.

Re: academy promotions, I think the players involved were always going to make the leap; the only question marks (IMO) were Thornbury and Beirne, but recent events have made second-row a bit more of an issue for us...

It also means the Cathal Marsh to Connacht "rumour" was, as I predicted, utter horsesh1t.

Wouldn't say Marsh rumour was utter horsesh1t as was most likely used by himself and his agent to make sure they were aware that there were other suitors out there. I don't believe his long term future is in Leinster as Byrne is a better 10

total former · 14-07-2015 11:24am

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Wouldn't say Marsh rumour was utter horsesh1t as was most likely used by himself and his agent to make sure they were aware that there were other suitors out there. I don't believe his long term future is in Leinster as Byrne is a better 10

No, Marsh's senior contract with Leinster had been announced months ago.

thomond2006 · 14-07-2015 12:40pm

Jamie Hagan and Tony Ryan, Clontarf backrow, join on short term deals.

awec · 14-07-2015 12:47pm

Dunno about Ryan but Hagan is useless. Beggars can't be choosers though I guess, needed someone to come in for cover.

Buer · 14-07-2015 1:06pm

awec wrote: »

Dunno about Ryan but Hagan is useless. Beggars can't be choosers though I guess, needed someone to come in for cover.

When fit and used correctly, he's not useless and is a pretty solid player. His final season at Leinster showed him developing into a good player and he was part of a few performances where the Leinster pack were mincing the opposition at the put in. He also needs someone to keep on top of his fitness.

Unfortunately, he doesn't strike me as someone with the mental approach to become a quality professional. His good spells always coincided with playing under a good man manager who was able to bring him along which is a luxury you can't count on in professional rugby. He seems to me to be a bit of a softy for the position he plays.

The attempted move to loosehead was silly also. Moving guys to another position at 27 is not going to work out. I would now say he's even money to call it a day before he turns 30 at this point.

.ak · 14-07-2015 1:29pm

Jamie Hagan on his last loan here was very good I thought. Scrummaged very strongly.

total former · 14-07-2015 1:38pm

I'm in the "Hagan is useless" camp too I'm afraid. London Irish seem mighty keen to be shot of him, considering he's still under contract with them.

molloyjh · 14-07-2015 1:42pm

total former wrote: »

I'm in the "Hagan is useless" camp too I'm afraid. London Irish seem mighty keen to be shot of him, considering he's still under contract with them.

I'd be with Buer on it really. He showed 2 years ago that he was capable of good performances. He needs to knuckle down (and be made to knuckle down). Just because he has the ability doesn't mean he'll deliver as we've seen in the past. But he has delivered in the past so hopefully he can do so again.

total former · 14-07-2015 1:51pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd be with Buer on it really. He showed 2 years ago that he was capable of good performances. He needs to knuckle down (and be made to knuckle down). Just because he has the ability doesn't mean he'll deliver as we've seen in the past. But he has delivered in the past so hopefully he can do so again.

Well definitely, and the Connacht fans weren't very pleased when he left there either, but the further back you have to go for the good performances, the less likely it is that they'll be repeated (this is known as the O'Leary Corollary).

"Useless" is probably very harsh actually, he's plenty good enough to be a 3-month back-up during the RWC.

total former · 14-07-2015 2:32pm

So the senior squad for next season then:

LH: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne, Hirst
Hooker: Cronin, Strauss, Byrne, Dundon, Tracy
TH: Ross, Moore, Furlong, Burke-Flynn, Hagan (3-mth deal)
Second-row: Toner, McCarthy, [Douglas], Kearney, Denton, Beirne, Thornbury
Back-row: SOB, Ruddock, Heaslip, Murphy, McLaughlin, D Ryan, Conan, Leavy, van der Flier, T Ryan (3-mth deal)
SH: Reddan, Boss, McGrath
OH: Sexton, Madigan, Marsh
Centre: Te'o, Reid, O'Shea
Back-three: R Kearney, Fitzgerald, D Kearney, McFadden, Kirchner, Fanning, McGrath, Nacewa

Obvious gap is at centre, so might see McFadden playing more there than last season, ditto for Luke. I've left D'Arcy out because I don't know if he's actually going to play for us if he doesn't make the RWC.

Clearlier · 14-07-2015 2:51pm

total former wrote: »

So the senior squad for next season then:

LH: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne, Hirst
Hooker: Cronin, Strauss, Byrne, Dundon, Tracy
TH: Ross, Moore, Furlong, Burke-Flynn, Hagan (3-mth deal)
Second-row: Toner, McCarthy, [Douglas], Kearney, Denton, Beirne, Thornbury
Back-row: SOB, Ruddock, Heaslip, Murphy, McLaughlin, D Ryan, Conan, Leavy, van der Flier, T Ryan (3-mth deal)
SH: Reddan, Boss, McGrath
OH: Sexton, Madigan, Marsh
Centre: Te'o, Reid, O'Shea
Back-three: R Kearney, Fitzgerald, D Kearney, McFadden, Kirchner, Fanning, McGrath

Obvious gap is at centre, so might see McFadden playing more there than last season, ditto for Luke. I've left D'Arcy out because I don't know if he's actually going to play for us if he doesn't make the RWC.

Nacewa is missing from the back 3. Also, depending on the coaching team obviously I'd include Madigan as an option at centre. I know that he hasn't had a great season there but then none of the backline did really and he certainly wasn't hopeless.

stephen_n · 14-07-2015 2:56pm

Is Dundon not gone?

CatFromHue · 14-07-2015 3:03pm

Can't O'Shea play 13 too?

If so and if those 3 can keep fit I wouldn't be too surprised to see the centre spots rotated between the 3 of them.

total former · 14-07-2015 3:06pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Is Dundon not gone?

I thought he was, but he was at one of the Leinster summer camps last week in all his gear. Then again, so was Kane Douglas.

molloyjh · 14-07-2015 3:07pm

total former wrote: »

So the senior squad for next season then:

LH: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne, Hirst
Hooker: Cronin, Strauss, Byrne, Dundon, Tracy
TH: Ross, Moore, Furlong, Burke-Flynn, Hagan (3-mth deal)
Second-row: Toner, McCarthy, [Douglas], Kearney, Denton, Beirne, Thornbury
Back-row: SOB, Ruddock, Heaslip, Murphy, McLaughlin, D Ryan, Conan, Leavy, van der Flier, T Ryan (3-mth deal)
SH: Reddan, Boss, McGrath
OH: Sexton, Madigan, Marsh
Centre: Te'o, Reid, O'Shea
Back-three: R Kearney, Fitzgerald, D Kearney, McFadden, Kirchner, Fanning, McGrath, Nacewa

Obvious gap is at centre, so might see McFadden playing more there than last season, ditto for Luke. I've left D'Arcy out because I don't know if he's actually going to play for us if he doesn't make the RWC.

Dundon is gone and Beirne is on a short term contract too.

14-07-2015 3:09pm

Dundon is in press pics with Nacewa and McLaughlin at the summer camps so don't think he is gone!

http://cms10.sotic.net/rdimages/leinster/1020043.jpg

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/mobile/branch/13680.php

thomond2006 · 14-07-2015 3:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dundon is in press pics with Nacewa and McLaughlin at the summer camps so don't think he is gone!

http://cms10.sotic.net/rdimages/leinster/1020043.jpg

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/mobile/branch/13680.php

Could he just be sticking around until after RWC?

total former · 14-07-2015 3:11pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Could he just be sticking around until after RWC?

Yeah, that's the most likely explanation with Strauss and Cronin going to be absent.

molloyjh · 14-07-2015 3:12pm

total former wrote: »

Yeah, that's the most likely explanation with Strauss and Cronin going to be absent.

Regardless I'm happy. I've always like Dundon and was disappointed when I heard he was packing it in. A real solid back-up to have.

14-07-2015 3:37pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Regardless I'm happy. I've always like Dundon and was disappointed when I heard he was packing it in. A real solid back-up to have.

Afaik he is looking to become a scrum coach.

sydthebeat · 14-07-2015 4:25pm

So dundon hasn't retired / gone into coaching?

Edit: doh, read the last page before replying

Zzippy · 14-07-2015 4:36pm

total former wrote: »

Well definitely, and the Connacht fans weren't very pleased when he left there either, but the further back you have to go for the good performances, the less likely it is that they'll be repeated (this is known as the O'Leary Corollary).

"Useless" is probably very harsh actually, he's plenty good enough to be a 3-month back-up during the RWC.

Think Dan McFarland got the best out of him when he was with Connacht. His form went off a cliff when he went to Leinster. People blamed his fitness, but Leinster had plenty of time to improve that and his form didn't improve. Maybe just doesn't have the motivation to be a top pro and man management at Leinster/LI couldn't get the best out of him. Well able to do a job at Pro12 level so I wouldn't be too worried for duration of RWC.

Buer · 14-07-2015 6:25pm

Zzippy wrote: »

His form went off a cliff when he went to Leinster. People blamed his fitness, but Leinster had plenty of time to improve that and his form didn't improve.

It did, hugely, in fairness. I think his form "going off a cliff" owed in no small part to how he was judged relatively. It was a very different measurement for him at Leinster similar to how tough Fionn Carr found it after a few years of calls for him to be in the Irish squad.

It was an improved Hagan that departed Leinster than the one that arrived culminating in a deserved Irish cap, jumping Michael Bent and keeping Marty Moore out of a breakthrough at both Leinster and Ireland.

It was Hagan himself who said in an interview his conditioning was suspect when he arrived from Connacht having eased off in his final season there and that he'd never let it happen again to him.

awec · 14-07-2015 11:44pm

You are not going to believe who I saw looking at a house in Dundrum earlier.

#excited
#redbean

total former · 15-07-2015 8:14am

Sounds more and more like Cullen is going to be head coach this year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-demands-more-from-young-leinster-squad-in-world-cup-year-1.2285066

Podge_irl · 15-07-2015 8:21am

Rob Kearney wrote:

“Yeah, I think it’s brilliant [Cullen’s appointment]. Last year we provably moved away from some aspects of our culture; [it] seemed to diminish a bit. Leo’s huge strength is that he’s a Leinster man through and through.

That...doesn't sound great.

15-07-2015 8:32am

#MOCIN

total former · 15-07-2015 8:37am

Podge_irl wrote: »

That...doesn't sound great.

In fairness, MOC never got Leinster culture. I never once saw him in 3FE or Donnybrook Fair, he was hardly ever in VIP magazine and his number of product endorsements was laughably small. He was doomed from day one.

molloyjh · 15-07-2015 8:39am

I'm still just cautiously optimistic about Dempsey. Not at all keen on Leo as head coach but I am excited to see what Girv can do with the backs.

What happened to that positivity train TF?

vienne86 · 15-07-2015 9:18am

total former wrote: »

Sounds more and more like Cullen is going to be head coach this year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-demands-more-from-young-leinster-squad-in-world-cup-year-1.2285066

Ah no! I'm not at all happy to hear that. I hate this 'jobs for the boys' feel about it, regardless of how good he might be.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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