Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

thomond2006

At least Anthony Foley paid his dues for many years and did a great job as forwards coach before being promoted to the main gig. What has Cullen done to deserve it?

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm still just cautiously optimistic about Dempsey. Not at all keen on Leo as head coach but I am excited to see what Girv can do with the backs.

What happened to that positivity train TF?

I've been positive all season, I'm on my summer break, so it's grinding pessimism from here until the first warm-up game.

I dunno, this "Leinster culture" idea is a bit like the "Munster ethos" stick that was used to relentlessly flog Rob Penney, so hopefully this is the last we hear of it. If Cullen is the right man for the job on his coaching merits, then fair enough, if he can deliver the kick up the arse that is collectively needed, great, but length of time hanging around Donnybrook shouldn't come into it.

awec

Talking about Leinster culture is just another way of saying that you can't think of anything to say regarding his achievements or abilities as a coach.

salmocab

I wouldn't read in too much that Cullen is in for the season, if he was they would have announced it. I reckon they will be looking for a new head coach but if in the meantime things are working out they might leave him there. Don't think Cullen based on last season has earned a promotion though.

Podge_irl

total former wrote: »

I dunno, this "Leinster culture" idea is a bit like the "Munster ethos" stick that was used to relentlessly flog Rob Penney, so hopefully this is the last we hear of it. If Cullen is the right man for the job on his coaching merits, then fair enough, if he can deliver the kick up the arse that is collectively needed, great, but length of time hanging around Donnybrook shouldn't come into it.

It sounds incredibly similar and I thought it was nonsense then and I rate Foley more than I do Cullen as a coach.

It's a positively stupid, and wildly unreassuring, reason to give for hiring a coach. The "Leinster culture" before Cheika came in was a complete cluster-**** of disharmony for example. Schmidt completely overhauled the "culture" again as well in his own way. I want to know what he brings that is new.

awec

The new guy will be grand anyway.

Schmidt raised expectations to insane levels (too high, to be quite honest) so whoever followed him was on a hiding to nothing from the minute they walked in the door. MOC did alright, I don't think the Leinster team is as good as some people think but his two year tenure has somewhat lowered expectations to a more realistic level.

shuffol

awec wrote: »

Talking about Leinster culture is just another way of saying that you can't think of anything to say regarding his achievements or abilities as a coach.

Certainly reads that way, when he was pressed on what he meant by Leinster culture later on in the piece he seemed to completely dodge the question and gave a waffly politician like response.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Talking about Leinster culture is just another way of saying that you can't think of anything to say regarding his achievements or abilities as a coach.

Yeah this. Like the interview with himself, POC and Jack McGrath at the jersey launch. They were being asked how much of a difference it makes, and in that situation you've got to say something positive, you can hardly say "ah look, it really doesn't matter a sh!te to be honest". So you end up with a waffly BS answer. I'm sure this is a similar situation.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The new guy will be grand anyway.

Schmidt raised expectations to insane levels (too high, to be quite honest) so whoever followed him was on a hiding to nothing from the minute they walked in the door. MOC did alright, I don't think the Leinster team is as good as some people think but his two year tenure has somewhat lowered expectations to a more realistic level.

Ah I don't know. The truth is somewhere in the middle I reckon. We weren't capable of our HEC winning best by any means, but we were still capable of more than we got last season.

irishbucsfan

Cullen may turn out to be an excellent head coach, I'm more than willing to give him a chance. He isn't going to be as good as his predecessors on day one though, I hope people will have the patience to let him grow into the role.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Cullen may turn out to be an excellent head coach, I'm more than willing to give him a chance. He isn't going to be as good as his predecessors on day one though, I hope people will have the patience to let him grow into the role.

Anyone has the potential to turn out to be an excellent head coach. This issue is not that he has no potential at all.

The question is whether or not it's wise to allow a completely novice and unproven coach cut his teeth at coaching at a club at Leinster's level while surrounded by his mates.

Tox56

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah I don't know. The truth is somewhere in the middle I reckon. We weren't capable of our HEC winning best by any means, but we were still capable of more than we got last season.

We are capable of winning the H cup, it just shouldn't be an expectation. But i really don't think it is, even under Schmidt people weren't expecting that level of success every season

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Anyone has the potential to turn out to be an excellent head coach. This issue is not that he has no potential at all.

The question is whether or not it's wise to allow a completely novice and unproven coach cut his teeth at coaching at a club at Leinster's level while surrounded by his mates.

Well that's only relevant to me if there was a better option available to us which we've turned down, I don't really think that's the case. In the absence of an alternative I'm happy to be patient.

Teferi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Cullen may turn out to be an excellent head coach, I'm more than willing to give him a chance. He isn't going to be as good as his predecessors on day one though, I hope people will have the patience to let him grow into the role.

He was shite last year though?

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well that's only relevant to me if there was a better option available to us which we've turned down, I don't really think that's the case. In the absence of an alternative I'm happy to be patient.

Dempsey is a better option. At least he has more experience of running a team.

Dempsey is doing what Cullen should have been doing at another club before getting a sniff of the Leinster coaching jobs. Maybe Dempsey has turned it down though, I wouldn't blame him as it could easily harm his career if he's not ready. If Dempsey isn't ready after his years in the academy how can Cullen be ready 12 months after retiring?

total former

awec wrote: »

If Dempsey isn't ready after his years in the academy how can Cullen be ready 12 months after retiring?

Well, Cullen has at least been involved day-to-day with the senior team, Dempsey has done a fine job with the Academy but it's still just the Academy, it's no real indicator of how he might make the step up.

From the outside looking in, Cullen's first year wasn't a success on any front, but maybe there's more to it than that and he has the ability. All we can do at this stage is give him a chance, hope for the best and start sharpening the pitchforks just in case.

total former

total former wrote: »

Well, Cullen has at least been involved day-to-day with the senior team, Dempsey has done a fine job with the Academy but it's still just the Academy, it's no real indicator of how he might make the step up.

From the outside looking in, Cullen's first year wasn't a success on any front, but maybe there's more to it than that and he has the ability. All we can do at this stage is give him a chance, hope for the best and start sharpening the pitchforks just in case.

Another aspect of this is that Leinster said they were actively looking for a replacement for MOC. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Cullen.

I think Kearney coming out to support him and being critical of the last tw year shows how fickle player comments are. Literally 3 months ago he was backing MOC.

stephen_n

Hopefully Kearney was alluding to the sort of culture that developed under Cheika and Schmidt, a positve work ethic from the junior and senior players, in other words a reversal of the things Jenno pointed to and who knows maybe as a head coach, Leo might be the one to do that, as he did as a player.

.ak

Feck, just seen a blog post a rumour about T'eo about to sign a contract with Queenslands Cowboys, to go back to NRL.

wicklowwonder

.ak wrote: »

Feck, just seen a blog post a rumour about T'eo about to sign a contract with Queenslands Cowboys, to go back to NRL.

I read the same, it's mid season there though. If he signs I would guess we would have him for the World Cup until the end of year and then off to pre-season there for February. Maybe he is genuinely homesick....

That'll be annoying if true, he has been starting to show some signs of 'getting it'. Always had the power, strength and speed, which can cover for a lot, but he has certainly been showing promise about growing the understanding.

.ak

wicklowwonder wrote: »

I read the same, it's mid season there though. If he signs I would guess we would have him for the World Cup until the end of year and then off to pre-season there for February. Maybe he is genuinely homesick....

Well I know he was homesick in the first few months here... but was hoping he'd felt better after a positive season under his belt.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Feck, just seen a blog post a rumour about T'eo about to sign a contract with Queenslands Cowboys, to go back to NRL.

That's terrible news if true. He showed a lot of positive signs last season that he was going to be a success.

wicklowwonder

.ak wrote: »

Well I know he was homesick in the first few months here... but was hoping he'd felt better after a positive season under his belt.

An off season at home may have reignited than home sickness. If true we are very unlucky with NIQs....

molloyjh

I really hope that isn't true. I was looking forward to seeing what he could do this season. It also leaves us a bit short at centre even when the internationals get back. Luke isn't going to want to move back to 13 if it makes his life harder at international level. Ferg isn't an OC. That really only leaves COS and Ringrose, or am I forgetting someone really obvious here?

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

I really hope that isn't true. I was looking forward to seeing what he could do this season. It also leaves us a bit short at centre even when the internationals get back. Luke isn't going to want to move back to 13 if it makes his life harder at international level. Ferg isn't an OC. That really only leaves COS and Ringrose, or am I forgetting someone really obvious here?

Reid can play 13 at a push.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Reid can play 13 at a push.

At a push, but then who plays 12? Ferg maybe?

awec

Lads I've told you before, anyone who's number is greater than 10 won't matter under the next coach.

You could play Amy Huberman at 12.

.ak

BOD back for a kick about?

Heroditas

molloyjh wrote: »

or am I forgetting someone really obvious here?

Henshaw