Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

What .ak said was that he'll be happy if Leo does a better job than MOC did last season, which isn't quite the same. But if Leo's biggest challenge is losing key players for significant chunks of the season, then it is directly comparable. There will be more international commitments but (hopefully) Leo won't have the injury plague that MOC did. The squad is also stronger on paper this season than last.

I think there are a lot of reasons why this season might not be a roaring success but the RWC can't be used to excuse everything and anything.

Ak said he would only be happy if Leo does better. That word is a pretty crucial part of the statement.

We're going to be missing more players than last year (squad players won't be in the country to pop in and out of Leinster the way they do during the AIs and 6Ns), we won't have them for pre-season, we'll be missing our skills and kicking coach for pre-season and the first 2 months of the season, we won't have a 10 with senior experience for the first 2 months, our first choice 10 will be unfamiliar with the et up when he does eventually arrive and the internationals will be tested more during the course of the season. There's quite a few differences over last season that make direct comparisons a fruitless exercise.

I'm not using the RWC as an excuse for anything and everything. I'm just pointing out that we can't directly compare the 2 seasons in such a straightforward manner. I've said before during the MOC debates that each season/coach should be discussed on its own merits and that comparing is often meaningless because the context is different. This is no different. We can't go into this season with expectations set based on last season. We need to go in with realistic expectations based on what the reality is this season and judge based on that.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

Meh, using the rwc as an excuse before the season starts doesn't sit well with me. We have a very good squad and great depth. No one was happy when moc used the player welfare excuse last year. Let's not forget how we did last rwc.

People also werent happy when MOC was directly compared to Schmidt in the seasons before him

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

We need to go in with realistic expectations based on what the reality is this season and judge based on that.

This is exactly what I hope happens across the board.

phog

I doubt any provincial coach will have the same access to the International players this season that they had last season.

What's the quality of the backroom staff in Leinster like this season compared to the previous two seasons

MOC had two seasons with Leinster, Leo seems to be only getting one to show an improvement.

Will Leo ever dismiss a loss as irrelevant, I seriously doubt he'd accept any loss from any of his teams.

Did Leinster sack MOC or did MOC leave Leinster of his own accord, if sacked then Leinster should have been more prepared for appointing a new coach. If Matt walked out then its hard to point fingers at the branch for where they are now.

total former

phog wrote: »

I doubt any provincial coach will have the same access to the International players this season that they had last season.

What's the quality of the backroom staff in Leinster like this season compared to the previous two seasons

MOC had two seasons with Leinster, Leo seems to be only getting one to show an improvement.

Will Leo ever dismiss a loss as irrelevant, I seriously doubt he'd accept any loss from any of his teams.

Did Leinster sack MOC or did MOC leave Leinster of his own accord, if sacked then Leinster should have been more prepared for appointing a new coach. If Matt walked out then its hard to point fingers at the branch for where they are now.

Backroom staff is hard to call. McQuilkin is fondly remembered but hasn't coached top level in years. Fogarty will need to step up because Caputo is a big loss. It remains to be seen if we get a new backs coach or if Girve gets the nod.

I don't think anyone will be too critical of Leo if there's no improvement, the concern is more that he's not ready and the board should not have put him in this position.

Re sacking / quitting, no one really knows. When it was announced, it was sold as a mutual decision which I think is plausible, but as time has gone on the story has evolved into a straight sacking. Either way, it's been handled poorly.

total former

total former wrote: »

Backroom staff is hard to call. McQuilkin is fondly remembered but hasn't coached top level in years. Fogarty will need to step up because Caputo is a big loss. It remains to be seen if we get a new backs coach or if Girve gets the nod.

I don't think anyone will be too critical of Leo if there's no improvement, the concern is more that he's not ready and the board should not have put him in this position.

Re sacking / quitting, no one really knows. When it was announced, it was sold as a mutual decision which I think is plausible, but as time has gone on the story has evolved into a straight sacking. Either way, it's been handled poorly.

It's hard to know how the ticket will work out, but looking at Munster they seem to have benefited from an all Munster coaching ticket considering they made the PRO12 final with a very average squad.

As for MOC, I'm pretty confident that the chain of events was that MOC was called into a meeting where he said he was frustrated with a number of things and basically said if Leinster weren't happy that he would be prepared to vacate. Nothing happened for a few weeks but then Leinster came back and agreed an exit.

It's not quite mutual but not exactly a sacking either.

Interested Observer

The story that was put out in the media was that MOC looked for a new contract, the branch weren't prepared to give him one at this point, and based on that they all decided he'd go.

I think that is believable. I don't think he'd have been sacked with zero plan in place to get a new coach.

FrannoFan

Rumour has it that Ben te'o heading back to league. Pity, I thought he was looking promising as a 13.
Nothing official yet.

total former

Interested Observer wrote: »

The story that was put out in the media was that MOC looked for a new contract, the branch weren't prepared to give him one at this point, and based on that they all decided he'd go.

I think that is believable. I don't think he'd have been sacked with zero plan in place to get a new coach.

It doesn't matter at this point, but this is the first time I've heard this version of events. Was this really put out in the media?

ArmchairQB

FrannoFan wrote: »

Rumour has it that Ben te'o heading back to league. Pity, I thought he was looking promising as a 13.
Nothing official yet.

He is looking at options when his current contract is complete with Leinster at the end of this upcoming season, nothing more than a player and more specifically his agent putting it out there to improve contract negotiations that will be happening in the near future

DelMcG

FrannoFan wrote: »

Rumour has it that Ben te'o heading back to league. Pity, I thought he was looking promising as a 13.
Nothing official yet.

He posted something on Instagram earlier about Sydney being the greatest city in the world & how he only realised it once he left, so there may be something in it, or it might just be the sort of guff you see from simpleton Premier League footballers trying to get a better deal

thomond2006

Leinster are playing the mighty Moseley: http://www.ticketmaster.ie/preseason-series-leinster-rugby-v-dublin-08-28-2015/event/18004EF1B9087A2B?artistid=33312&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster are playing the mighty Moseley: http://www.ticketmaster.ie/preseason-series-leinster-rugby-v-dublin-08-28-2015/event/18004EF1B9087A2B?artistid=33312&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225

That would be about right given the absentees. It'll basically be an A game.

DelMcG

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster are playing the mighty Moseley: http://www.ticketmaster.ie/preseason-series-leinster-rugby-v-dublin-08-28-2015/event/18004EF1B9087A2B?artistid=33312&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225

No wonder they gave away the tickets for free to STH renewals. You'd be hard pushed to give them away at the gate. We have Moseley in our B&I pool this year. I'm guessing this friendly was organised before that pool was decided

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster are playing the mighty Moseley: http://www.ticketmaster.ie/preseason-series-leinster-rugby-v-dublin-08-28-2015/event/18004EF1B9087A2B?artistid=33312&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225

Might amble down to that if I'm around. Could be interesting and will get me back into the mood.

dregin

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm sure we're going to see tonnes of comparisons between this season and last regardless of the credibility of those comparisons. Most people really won't care for the "excuses" (or reality as some others might call it).

Read this and thought you were talking about True Detective :cool:

briantwin

dregin wrote: »

Read this and thought you were talking about True Detective :cool:

That brightened up my Tuesday morning!

awec

Are any of you planning the trip to Ravenhill for the friendly at the end of August?

scott1974

The 42.ie mentioning Carlos Spencer ad a possible target as back coach.
Seems a bit vague why his current contract has been ended. I wonder are they just trying to fill articles.
http://www.the42.ie/carlos-spencer-leinster-ep-kings-coach-2228735-Jul2015/

DelMcG

Yeah, all seems a little "who's name haven't we mentioned yet" really.

Crowley isn't likely to walk out on his own brother plus Canada aren't exactly known for their scintillating backs play & whilst it does suggest that Spencer losing his job with the Kings is down to money, the wording of it is all a little stage managed alright.

Slow news day, I reckon

The name of the EP president. Cheeky Watson. Magnificent

irishbucsfan

Heard it's Geordan Murphy reuniting with Leo. See? I can do it too, I should get a job with Journal Media

molloyjh

scott1974 wrote: »

The 42.ie mentioning Carlos Spencer ad a possible target as back coach.
Seems a bit vague why his current contract has been ended. I wonder are they just trying to fill articles.
http://www.the42.ie/carlos-spencer-leinster-ep-kings-coach-2228735-Jul2015/

More of the pulling names out of a hat type journalism. I can't see there being anything at all behind this. They've just found a big name they can try to link to Leinster whether there's anything to it or not.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

More of the pulling names out of a hat type journalism. I can't see there being anything at all behind this. They've just found a big name they can try to link to Leinster whether there's anything to it or not.

Spencer played under Schmidt. The key to coming up with rumours is to ensure there's enough believability in them to give you at least 400 words.

total former

If the42 was a newspaper, it would be toilet paper. At least then it would serve a purpose.

As a website, it is just sucking up bandwidth that could be better used for low grade porn, pictures of cats and Nigerian bank scams.

Larbre34

Shotgun journalism in the silly season. Nothin to see here.

awec

awec wrote: »

Are any of you planning the trip to Ravenhill for the friendly at the end of August?

All things going to plan I'll be up with one of my kiddo's and two of my mates. Brought the young un so that there was someone to drive us back!

Interested Observer

I heard a certain poster on here saw Carlos Spencer looking at houses in Dundrum over the weekend.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

All things going to plan I'll be up with one of my kiddo's and two of my mates. Brought the young un so that there was someone to drive us back!

It would be good craic to have a Belfast beers for this one.

awec

awec wrote: »

Belfast beers

Is that the one where you get a red card every time you jump on the dance floor?

scott1974

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster are playing the mighty Moseley: http://www.ticketmaster.ie/preseason-series-leinster-rugby-v-dublin-08-28-2015/event/18004EF1B9087A2B?artistid=33312&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225

Munster and Connacht are playing Grenoble Pre-Season... that would be one I'd go and see...strange no fixture for Leinster with the Jackman connection!!