Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Podge_irl · 20-08-2015 1:23pm

molloyjh wrote: »

suggesting that people were far too focused on kicking into the corners because of ROG and his skills in that area.

He's right on that front though.

However, his overall game management isn't great.

total former · 20-08-2015 1:25pm

molloyjh wrote: »

He got a bit defensive about it AFAIK, asking the media to define what game management was and then suggesting that people were far too focused on kicking into the corners because of ROG and his skills in that area.

He's dead right. People here do equate game management with kicking into the corner, ROG would get a rapturous ovation for it even when it was clearly the wrong option.

However, Madigan still has a problem with game management. He struggles to make the right call to carry/pass/kick at the right time. I'd understand that he's annoyed with people saying it, but that doesn't make it untrue.

molloyjh · 20-08-2015 1:27pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

He's right on that front though.

However, his overall game management isn't great.

I think that was a big thing for a while, but it seems to have calmed down a good bit over the last 12-18 months. It's obviously a part of game management and an obvious weakness that Mads has. But even his ball in hand game management can be found wanting. The Zebo try was the exception and not the rule. I think we're pretty much all agreed on that.

He's never going to admit it publicly though. Nor should he really.

irishbucsfan · 20-08-2015 1:27pm

molloyjh wrote: »

He got a bit defensive about it AFAIK, asking the media to define what game management was and then suggesting that people were far too focused on kicking into the corners because of ROG and his skills in that area.

Well yeah I think a lot of people assume that's what it means because that's how O'Gara did it. But O'Gara did it that way because he was limited in his ability to do it other ways. Sexton does it in a much more broad manner.

It's not even something that's limited to 10s, scrum halves have a huge role to play.

But even so, watch Madigan in the first half against Ulster last season when we were crap and it was down to the decisions he was making when the ball came to him. Constant early phase kicks that made no ground and went straight down the throat of the opposition back 3. It was impossible to pick him as a starter when he was playing like that in key games.

molloyjh · 20-08-2015 1:30pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well yeah I think a lot of people assume that's what it means because that's how O'Gara did it. But O'Gara did it that way because he was limited in his ability to do it other ways. Sexton does it in a much more broad manner.

It's not even something that's limited to 10s, scrum halves have a huge role to play.

But even so, watch Madigan in the first half against Ulster last season when we were crap and it was down to the decisions he was making when the ball came to him. Constant early phase kicks that made no ground and went straight down the throat of the opposition back 3. It was impossible to pick him as a starter when he was playing like that in key games.

I don't disagree with any of that. I've been pretty forthright with my opinion on Mads over the last couple of seasons.

I do think that the "kicking the corners = game management" mentality has diminished a fair bit since Joe took over. Seeing Ireland being successful without an over reliance on that tactic has probably balanced out general opinion on it.

.ak · 20-08-2015 1:32pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He does have a game management problem. That's the biggest weakness of his game. Obviously he's not going to sit there and agree with it, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, it's certainly there and it's certainly the reason he was unable to nail down a starting position for Leinster when handed a golden opportunity with the departure of Sexton.

I suppose the problem is the term game management is used so loosely by people who probably don't fully understand what it actually means.

Basically, it's his decision making that's under question here. I completely agree with you, but I see where he's coming from when he probably reads some daft articles not highlighting the issue correctly.

irishbucsfan · 20-08-2015 1:38pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that. I've been pretty forthright with my opinion on Mads over the last couple of seasons.

I do think that the "kicking the corners = game management" mentality has diminished a fair bit since Joe took over. Seeing Ireland being successful without an over reliance on that tactic has probably balanced out general opinion on it.

Well yeah, it's thankfully subsided quite a bit.

I wouldn't be surprised though if a lot of players ended up trying to pick up the general public reaction reading things like Facebook comments...

Zzippy · 20-08-2015 2:42pm

molloyjh wrote: »

I think that was a big thing for a while, but it seems to have calmed down a good bit over the last 12-18 months. It's obviously a part of game management and an obvious weakness that Mads has. But even his ball in hand game management can be found wanting. The Zebo try was the exception and not the rule. I think we're pretty much all agreed on that.

He's never going to admit it publicly though. Nor should he really.

TBH I'd prefer if he did acknowledge that he had to work on it. Refusing to admit its a problem is head in the sand stuff, I'd be worried that a player with that mentality won't improve because he refuses to concede there is something to improve on. The best players are always self-critical and striving to be better.

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that. I've been pretty forthright with my opinion on Mads over the last couple of seasons.

I do think that the "kicking the corners = game management" mentality has diminished a fair bit since Joe took over. Seeing Ireland being successful without an over reliance on that tactic has probably balanced out general opinion on it.

Now we just kick it in the air. A lot...

molloyjh · 20-08-2015 3:09pm

Zzippy wrote: »

TBH I'd prefer if he did acknowledge that he had to work on it. Refusing to admit its a problem is head in the sand stuff, I'd be worried that a player with that mentality won't improve because he refuses to concede there is something to improve on. The best players are always self-critical and striving to be better.

There's a big difference between acknowledging your weaknesses and acknowledging your weaknesses in public in fairness. There's no way that his coaches haven't had that conversation with him. In fact MOC made a point of mentioning it in the press a few times last season.

Zzippy wrote: »

Now we just kick it in the air. A lot...

Glorious isn't it!? :pac:

The Pheasant2 · 20-08-2015 3:11pm

When will the teams for the inter pros be announced?

.ak · 20-08-2015 3:11pm

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

When will the teams for the inter pros be announced?

Probably tomorrow. The match is on Saturday isn't it?

awec · 20-08-2015 3:12pm

Ulster team & replacements to play Leinster, Pre-season friendly, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 21st August (19:30 kick off): (15-9): J Owens, C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, P Nelson, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): R Murphy, R Herring (Captain) W Herbst, P Browne, F Van der Merwe, C Ross, S Reidy, R Diack. Replacements: A Warwick, J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, A O’Connor, D Tuohy, C Joyce, F Taggart, W Faloon, S Mullholland, P Rowley, D Shanahan, S Windsor, J Stockdale, S McCloskey, S Arnold, L Ludik, M Best.

Team is basically every player on Ulster's books.

awec · 20-08-2015 3:13pm

.ak wrote: »

Probably tomorrow. The match is on Saturday isn't it?

Match is tomorrow night.

sydthebeat · 20-08-2015 3:14pm

id forgotten faloon had gone back up north !

.ak · 20-08-2015 3:14pm

Strange that Leinster haven't named theirs yet... I presume they're allowing rolling subs, so basically they'll bring everyone and anyone.

molloyjh · 20-08-2015 3:15pm

awec wrote: »

Ulster team & replacements to play Leinster, Pre-season friendly, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 21st August (19:30 kick off): (15-9): J Owens, C Gilroy, D Cave, L Marshall, P Nelson, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): R Murphy, R Herring (Captain) W Herbst, P Browne, F Van der Merwe, C Ross, S Reidy, R Diack. Replacements: A Warwick, J Andrew, R Lutton, B Ross, A O’Connor, D Tuohy, C Joyce, F Taggart, W Faloon, S Mullholland, P Rowley, D Shanahan, S Windsor, J Stockdale, S McCloskey, S Arnold, L Ludik, M Best.

Team is basically every player on Ulster's books.

Looking at that it's pretty obvious you guys need to give us one of your centres. Marshall, Cave, McCloskey and Arnold in that squad alone with Olding in the squad as well....

Interesting that Cave is at 13. I assume that means he definitely isn't travelling.

awec · 20-08-2015 3:16pm

Ruadhri Murphy at #1. Be afraid. :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan · 20-08-2015 4:16pm

awec wrote: »

Ruadhri Murphy at #1. Be afraid. :rolleyes:

It's his second season right?

Leinster fans have every right to be afraid of props who did nothing in their first season and are entering their 2nd season. That's exactly what Stan Wright and Mike Ross did!

vienne86 · 20-08-2015 4:16pm

.ak wrote: »

Strange that Leinster haven't named theirs yet... I presume they're allowing rolling subs, so basically they'll bring everyone and anyone.

Everyone who travels will get a run, but yes, I would have expected a teamsheet by now.

awec · 20-08-2015 4:19pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's his second season right?

Leinster fans have every right to be afraid of props who did nothing in their first season and are entering their 2nd season. That's exactly what Stan Wright and Mike Ross did!

Yes.

Not sure he was even in a single squad last season.

Buer · 20-08-2015 5:14pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's his second season right?

Leinster fans have every right to be afraid of props who did nothing in their first season and are entering their 2nd season. That's exactly what Stan Wright and Mike Ross did!

Steady on! Both made multiple HEC appearances in their first season! Wright started 5 and Ross started both Brive games, I recall, and came off the bench in a few others.

Murphy was a complete waste of a signing. Just a really odd one. Ulster should have been throwing themselves at Jack O'Connell instead.

CatFromHue · 20-08-2015 5:33pm

awec wrote: »

Yes.

Not sure he was even in a single squad last season.

Didn't the pro 12 page on him last season still have him wearing a Zebre jersey :pac::pac:

awec · 20-08-2015 5:38pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Didn't the pro 12 page on him last season still have him wearing a Zebre jersey :pac::pac:

He's never played for Zebre. We signed him from the Brumbies.

Interested Observer · 20-08-2015 7:14pm

total former wrote: »

He's dead right. People here do equate game management with kicking into the corner, ROG would get a rapturous ovation for it even when it was clearly the wrong option.

However, Madigan still has a problem with game management. He struggles to make the right call to carry/pass/kick at the right time. I'd understand that he's annoyed with people saying it, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I remember a game against Cardiff in Cork where ROG pinged into the corner again and again and he did it brilliantly.

Only trouble was Munster couldn't touch the Cardiff line out on the night and Cardiff ended up winning the game easily.

Conor George called for ROG to go on the Lions tour in the Indo the next day.

Zzippy · 20-08-2015 7:33pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Conor George

Just as well there wasn't much after this, cos I stopped reading here

DelMcG · 20-08-2015 9:37pm

http://www.the42.ie/marty-moore-ireland-leinster-moon-boot-2284397-Aug2015/

Marty Moore pulled from the squad for tomorrow night by Joe & Co

Starting to get a little thin in the Ireland propping ranks...

21-08-2015 8:58am

.ak wrote: »

Strange that Leinster haven't named theirs yet... I presume they're allowing rolling subs, so basically they'll bring everyone and anyone.

Leinster team for tonights match:

Team

.ak · 21-08-2015 9:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster team for tonights match:

Team

Correct link.

21-08-2015 9:09am

.ak wrote: »

Correct link.

The photographer caught Tom Daly completely by surprise.

.ak · 21-08-2015 9:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

The photographer caught Tom Daly completely by surprise.

Yeah well he farted when taking Cian Kelleher's photo.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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