Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

LorMal

Heroditas wrote: »

Rugby has had quite a history down through the years of national teams having "foreigners" playing for them.

Yeah I know - it's a pity. And there is no need to put "foreigners" in inverted commas. The players I am referring to are foreigners.

I want the idea of playing for your country to mean something more than where you happen to reside and work at any particular time. Its what makes tournaments like the World Cup and the 6 Nations so special.

If the Ireland team , currently coached by a New Zealander, had say 7 or 8 New Zealanders / Aussies / Saffers playing in it - then I think it would lose it's identity - and could be perceived as a secondary route to an International cap if you don't make it for your own team.

Irish kids need to be able to aspire to one day playing for their country. If we
block that route with a lot of foreign players (for short term expediency) then we will lose something really unique and special in the long term.

Dero

LorMal wrote: »

I want the idea of playing for your country to mean something more than where you happen to reside and work at any particular time.

While I understand where you're coming from, it strikes me that where on the planet you happen to be born is as arbitrary a criteria as where you happen to reside on it at this time.

N.B. Post is not entirely serious, not wanting to open any worm cans.

Dero

Dero wrote: »

While I understand where you're coming from, it strikes me that where on the planet you happen to be born is as arbitrary a criteria as where you happen to reside on it at this time.

N.B. Post is not entirely serious, not wanting to open any worm cans.

It's a pretty decent indicator of nativity though!

We use native-ness as the qualifier for the National Teams currently.

I'm not sure it's that arbitrary. Of course, the argument might be why have National Teams altogether?!

Dero

Yes indeed, I know that; hence my disclaimer.

LorMal

Dero wrote: »

While I understand where you're coming from, it strikes me that where on the planet you happen to be born is as arbitrary a criteria as where you happen to reside on it at this time.

N.B. Post is not entirely serious, not wanting to open any worm cans.

Yeah, I know. It's just that a National Team should maybe mean something? Otherwise, I'm supporting the ABs this year....

Heroditas

LorMal wrote: »

Yeah I know - it's a pity. And there is no need to put "foreigners" in inverted commas. The players I am referring to are foreigners.

I want the idea of playing for your country to mean something more than where you happen to reside and work at any particular time. Its what makes tournaments like the World Cup and the 6 Nations so special.

If the Ireland team , currently coached by a New Zealander, had say 7 or 8 New Zealanders / Aussies / Saffers playing in it - then I think it would lose it's identity - and could be perceived as a secondary route to an International cap if you don't make it for your own team.

Irish kids need to be able to aspire to one day playing for their country. If we
block that route with a lot of foreign players (for short term expediency) then we will lose something really unique and special in the long term.

I disagree completely. That's all I'm going to say. However, I think we need to agree to disagree because there's no point discussing it further. We both have polar opposite views.

One last thing though - the Irish player would not be "blocked" if they are not as good as the other player ahead of them. If they're good enough, they'll play.

bunnyarmstrong

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a pretty decent indicator of nativity though!

We use native-ness as the qualifier for the National Teams currently.

I'm not sure it's that arbitrary. Of course, the argument might be why have National Teams altogether?!

Place of birth kind of is arbitrary though, as Heaslip, ROG and Jordi Murphy show and we never argue much about their nativity. I get what you mean though, and I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything.

I'd just go further down the line and argue that community, culture and a strong connection with a place or country is probably the most important factor for me.

Reading this makes me think D'Arcy wont be back in blue.

irishbucsfan

Yeah I think that's pretty concrete, he said he's "out of rugby".

Didn’t make that squad either. I was the last man cut after coming back from a training camp in Bilbao. Got a call from Eddie, not unlike the one I took from Joe last week. Well, same yet vastly different.

One got me off the wing, the other out of rugby.

Great article though either way.

Neil3030

If that D'Arcy piece wasn't ghost written, he will be snapped up for a regular column. Very good.

.ak

Neil3030 wrote: »

If that D'Arcy piece wasn't ghost written, he will be snapped up for a regular column. Very good.

I believe he is doing a regular but with the times now.

LorMal

Heroditas wrote: »

I disagree completely. That's all I'm going to say. However, I think we need to agree to disagree because there's no point discussing it further. We both have polar opposite views.

One last thing though - the Irish player would not be "blocked" if they are not as good as the other player ahead of them. If they're good enough, they'll play.

Don't call the team 'Ireland' then.

I suggest 'International Selection based in Ireland' (really trips off the tongue)

Maybe the anthem can be 'Money, Money, Money'.

Works great for soccer.

Heroditas

LorMal wrote: »

Don't call the team 'Ireland' then.

I suggest 'International Selection based in Ireland' (really trips off the tongue)

Maybe the anthem can be 'Money, Money, Money'.

Works great for soccer.

What about all the Irish players who consider themselves British?
See, that in itself undermines your argument concerning nationalit and what the team should be called

LorMal

Heroditas wrote: »

What about all the Irish players who consider themselves British?
See, that in itself undermines your argument concerning nationalit and what the team should be called

Nonsense. The Irish players who are British are still Irish. (As someone who is Scottish or Welsh is also British).

.ak

I know I brought it up... But let's keep the discussion Leinster based please.

LorMal

.ak wrote: »

I know I brought it up... But let's keep the discussion Leinster based please.

Yep.
Sad for D'arcy - a great article which shows typical humility and honestly from the man. If he is finished with Leinster, it will be our sad loss. An absolutely brilliant brilliant player.
(And I would still have him on the Ireland team ahead of Payne!!!!)

vienne86

LorMal wrote: »

Yep.
Sad for D'arcy - a great article which shows typical humility and honestly from the man. If he is finished with Leinster, it will be our sad loss. An absolutely brilliant brilliant player.
(And I would still have him on the Ireland team ahead of Payne!!!!)

Yes, sadly it looks like we won't see him togging out again. Pity. I would have loved a good send off from the RDS.

Heroditas

LorMal wrote: »

Nonsense. The Irish players who are British are still Irish. (As someone who is Scottish or Welsh is also British).

Not at all comparable

Heroditas

.ak wrote: »

I know I brought it up... But let's keep the discussion Leinster based please.

Your fault! Borderline trolling. You'll be mentioning anthems and flegs next.

stephen_n

The article was very interesting, when you see it from the players perspective. Talking about the change in roll after 2011, from attacking to more defensive and knowing that line breaks would be at a far greater premium, given his size. It's all fairly obvious stuff but when he spells it out like that, you see the clear timeline of when people started talking about him being spent as an attacking force.

Hagz

This makes me think we'll see him at least one last time.

Gordon D'Arcy is seeing a specialist this week on a shoulder injury that he had scanned last week and is ruled out of the Cardiff Blues game as a result.

vienne86

Hagz wrote: »

This makes me think we'll see him at least one last time.

Just a cameo is all we need.....if we can afford to make space for him for one match.

scott1974

vienne86 wrote: »

Just a cameo is all we need.....if we can afford to make space for him for one match.

That's a bit harsh, none of the lads are 12's have pushed him out the team.. he's 35 and has decided to retire, I'm sure he can still do a decent job for one game.

stephen_n

His legs are gone though, that much was obvious in his last two showings, it's a season too far for him.

scott1974

stephen_n wrote: »

His legs are gone though, that much was obvious in his last two showings, it's a season too far for him.

Yes, there's no doubting that. I just think we could give him a 20 min cameo.
I wouldn't consider him a liability.

Anyway, maybe he's made his mind up and he's gone...

LorMal

stephen_n wrote: »

His legs are gone though, that much was obvious in his last two showings, it's a season too far for him.

I don't know - is it that sudden? Surely it's a slow deterioration in speed over a number of years?
I would say he could certainly play up to international standard even now - but maybe not for a sustained period. For a few matches - certainly.
He was never one to miss tackles for sure.

jacothelad

LorMal wrote: »

I don't know - is it that sudden? Surely it's a slow deterioration in speed over a number of years?
I would say he could certainly play up to international standard even now - but maybe not for a sustained period. For a few matches - certainly.
He was never one to miss tackles for sure.

I suspect that affection and rose tinted specs are at work here in support of a fine player - he simply hasn't been up to international games for a few years.

LorMal

LorMal wrote: »

I don't know - is it that sudden? Surely it's a slow deterioration in speed over a number of years?
I would say he could certainly play up to international standard even now - but maybe not for a sustained period. For a few matches - certainly.
He was never one to miss tackles for sure.

His legs aren't gone, he was unconditioned like the rest of them but it's going to take him 2 - 3 games more to get up to speed.

He's still the best centre we have from a technical point of view and has plenty to offer. If available for the entire season I could see him playing a fair bit when his sharpness picks up again.

You don't just "lose your legs", he's just slower out of the blocks for the first two matches. By October he would probably be around where he was last season but tire more towards the end of the season.

It was very telling for me more than at any time, how after the 2014 6N both BOD and Darcy looked spent, neither reached top form for the remainder of the season.

total former

jacothelad wrote: »

I suspect that affection and rose tinted specs are at work here in support of a fine player - he simply hasn't been up to international games for a few years.

That is utter bollocks

He was excellent in the 2014 6N.

jacothelad

total former wrote: »

That is utter bollocks

He was excellent in the 2014 6N.

In your opinion......