Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Options
1…1617192122…332

Comments

  • Options
    #542
    Josie Early Bin
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Josie Early Bin


    I'd rather Berquist/Goodman/Berne at 10 than Isa tbh.

    And realistically, I'd rather we just played an Academy or AIL player than taking players out of retirement too.


  • Options
    #543
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Isa wasn't a good 10. In fact I think it's fair to say that in reality he is not a 10 at all at this level. And even if he was reasonably good it'll have been over 2 years since he last played the game and I don't even want to think about how many years since he played 10 more than twice in succession. Would it be 5 or 6 years?

    I love Isa and part of me loves the thought of getting him back. But when you compare the signings in Ulster and Munster I can't help but feel very underwhelmed by the signing of Isa.

    We've signed Jonny Sexton for next season, I don't understand how anyone could be remotely underwhelmed after that!

    If Nacewa is coming in you'd imagine he's not going to play 10 ahead of Madigan or Sexton. Unfortunately both those guys will likely be at the World Cup.

    We have to sign someone who doesn't mind being 3rd choice 10 after the World Cup, ideally just drop out of the running for 10 altogether. So that either means a 10 who is a 2nd rate player on a short term deal, or signing someone who plays (or coaches) elsewhere and can "do a job" during the competition. I'd imagine Nacewa is better than most others on that list.

    I'm much more interested in what they'll do at 9. That has far more implications as far as I'm concerned.


  • Options
    #544
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Nacewa only ever started a handful of games at 10 IIRC and only in the early days of his Leinster career. He shifted in a few times later on in matches if Sexton or Contepomi went off. He wasn't a bad 10, he had the ability to be a very good one and had shown that in Super rugby, but he never really showed anything good or bad for Leinster as outhalf.

    All that said, I really hope there is more to come in terms of signings. A scrum half is looking more crucial by the week.


  • Options
    #545
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    TommyOM wrote: »
    He's an investment for the future. We may as well give him the experience now while MOC is in charge and then it will pay dividends when a new coach comes in, Leinster start clicking and Teo has the experience at 13 to be top class.

    He already has shown serious ability to exploit gaps, has shown lovely offloading and has run some fantastic lines. From what I can see he has all the skillset to be an incredible 13.

    I do not accept that a club of Leinster's stature should have a development prospect (not matter what his future potential) as our main choice 13 - in the semi finals of EC and in the business end of the league. Its not good for the team, its also sends the wrong message to the upcoming squad members and it is not in the best interest of the player himself.


  • Options
    #546
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    There's a massive difference between thinking T'eo isn't our best 13/not being happy with him at 13 and hoping he'll leave the country....

    I wasn't being fully serious about driving him to the airport....
    I just want us to field our best resources in the best positions.
    I am unhappy with the guys we have brought in - none have really been good enough.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #547
    padser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Ireland do the exact same thing with their contestables, as do a lot of teams in this country and outside it.

    It's about the most value out of the kick possible, and often you actually will get a better return by putting the kick further up field, and it's more true the closer to your own line you make the kick. This is a pretty commonly applied tactic, you'll see it in club rugby as well.

    Firstly, Ireland don't (they put the ball higher and take some distance off it)

    Secondly, I didn't take any view on whether it's good, bad, common or uncommon. I simply used it as an example of a tactic we currently use which might increase the number of missed tackles


  • Options
    #548
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    I wasn't being fully serious about driving him to the airport....
    I just want us to field our best resources in the best positions.
    I am unhappy with the guys we have brought in - none have really been good enough.

    Fair enough, but you can see why people are arguing with you when you make comments like that.

    FWIW I think most would agree T'eo has been better than expectations.


  • Options
    #549
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    LorMal wrote: »
    I do not accept that a club of Leinster's stature should have a development prospect (not matter what his future potential) as our main choice 13 - in the semi finals of EC and in the business end of the league. Its not good for the team, its also sends the wrong message to the upcoming squad members and it is not in the best interest of the player himself.

    Whoever we play at 13 is going to be a development prospect. It's just the nature of the situation we're in, unfortunately, we don't have any experienced alternatives.

    Te'o's best interests are served by him getting game time and improving week by week, which he has been doing.


  • Options
    #550
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Even with Sexton and Madigan gone to the WC surely Nacewa wouldn't be the one playing 10 if he signs. That just seems like madness.


  • Options
    #551
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    padser wrote: »
    Firstly, Ireland don't (they put the ball higher and take some distance off it)

    Secondly, I didn't take any view on whether it's good, bad, common or uncommon. I simply used it as an example of a tactic we currently use which might increase the number of missed tackles

    Ireland absolutely do it. You'll need to watch those games again if you think they don't.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #552
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    Fair enough, but you can see why people are arguing with you when you make comments like that.

    FWIW I think most would agree T'eo has been better than expectations.

    Whose expectations?? I certainly expected BOD to be replaced by an excellent international level player.


  • Options
    #553
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    Whose expectations?? I certainly expected BOD to be replaced by an excellent international level player.

    So, who is this excellent international level 13 who is available that you'd like us to sign?


  • Options
    #554
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    shuffol wrote: »
    Even with Sexton and Madigan gone to the WC surely Nacewa wouldn't be the one playing 10 if he signs. That just seems like madness.

    We'll it'd be whoever is in the squad who is the best option. That could well be Marsh.


  • Options
    #555
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    total former wrote: »
    Whoever we play at 13 is going to be a development prospect. It's just the nature of the situation we're in, unfortunately, we don't have any experienced alternatives.

    Te'o's best interests are served by him getting game time and improving week by week, which he has been doing.

    That's because we recruited badly. Which is my point. Surely we could have managed to find a decent international level 13? And the others have been disappointing as well, no?


  • Options
    #556
    Greyian
    Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Greyian


    LorMal wrote: »
    Surely we could have managed to find a decent international level 13?

    Can you give an example of one who was available though? Recruiting for the 2014-2015 season was always going to be difficult, what with the world cup coming up.


  • Options
    #557
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Whose expectations?? I certainly expected BOD to be replaced by an excellent international level player.

    Now you're confusion expectations.

    I'm talking about the expectations of a league convert who's barely played union. He's far exceeded those expectations.

    Regarding expectations of who we should've signed in the first place... Well, we didn't have a host of 13s to choose from, we needed someone now and it was a year before the RWC. Who else could we have signed?

    As it stands, MOC took a gamble on T'eo and probably got him a lot cheaper than Bath paid for his teammate... and it looks like the gamble is paying off, T'eo is a fantastic player and not the type of player we'd ever produce on these shores. For that MOC must applauded, it's been a great recruitment all things considered.


  • Options
    #558
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    We'll it'd be whoever is in the squad who is the best option. That could well be Marsh.

    I'd rather Marsh, for all manner of reasons, than Nacewa.

    Even if it is Marsh though you still need 10 cover.


  • Options
    #559
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    .ak wrote: »
    As it stands, MOC took a gamble on T'eo and probably got him a lot cheaper than Bath paid for his teammate... and it looks like the gamble is paying off, T'eo is a fantastic player and not the type of player we'd ever produce on these shores. For that MOC must applauded.

    Probably shouldn't be starting European knock-out games at this point though.


  • Options
    #560
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Probably shouldn't be starting European knock-out games at this point though.

    I completely agree, but that's not what the debate is about.


  • Options
    #561
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    So, who is this excellent international level 13 who is available that you'd like us to sign?

    Why the sarcasm? What is the issue here? Are we just supposed to praise every player to the hilt and bask in the glow of how world class we are? Is it not even a valid point to suggest that perhaps we could have recruited better that Teo, Douglas, Kirchner, Gopperth.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #562
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Why the sarcasm? What is the issue here? Are we just supposed to praise every player to the hilt and bask in the glow of how world class we are? Is it not even a valid point to suggest that perhaps we could have recruited better that Teo, Douglas, Kirchner, Gopperth.

    No, you're missing the point. We all had this conversation the year before BOD retired. We all wanted a signing to replace him. But NOBODY could name one. There is literally nobody of decent international quality that can play 13 available a full year before the RWC.

    So MOC took a gamble and signed a league player based on his analysis of his game. Looks like MOC made a very shrewd and clever signing.


  • Options
    #563
    Greyian
    Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Greyian


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'd rather Marsh, for all manner of reasons, than Nacewa.

    Even if it is Marsh though you still need 10 cover.

    Would Ross Byrne not be an option for the bench (during the RWC)?


  • Options
    #564
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Greyian wrote: »
    Would Ross Byrne not be an option for the bench (during the RWC)?

    I think he will, but it might be a lot to expect of him. Having a utility player like Isa may be very beneficial. Also remember he's a very good goal kicker, might take a bit of heat off whoever plays 10.


  • Options
    #565
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    I completely agree, but that's not what the debate is about.

    Yes it is. See my previous posts about why are we starting him in the SF of the EC and in the business end of the league.
    (If we had just brought him in as a development player, I would not quibble with him starting some of the earlier league matches to get some experience of RU at this level.) Big money for a prospect though


  • Options
    #566
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    No, you're missing the point. We all had this conversation the year before BOD retired. We all wanted a signing to replace him. But NOBODY could name one. There is literally nobody of decent international quality that can play 13 available a full year before the RWC.

    So MOC took a gamble and signed a league player based on his analysis of his game. Looks like MOC made a very shrewd and clever signing.

    Fair enough - I do not know the market well enough to argue that. However, I dont think it is a shrewd and clever signing and I wish he would start Luke at 13 instead.


  • Options
    #567
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes it is. See my previous posts about why are we starting him in the SF of the EC and in the business end of the league.
    (If we had just brought him in as a development player, I would not quibble with him starting some of the earlier league matches to get some experience of RU at this level.) Big money for a prospect though

    I see your point, and raise you this:
    LorMal wrote: »
    I wasn't being fully serious about driving him to the airport....
    I just want us to field our best resources in the best positions.
    I am unhappy with the guys we have brought in - none have really been good enough.

    LorMal wrote: »
    Whose expectations?? I certainly expected BOD to be replaced by an excellent international level player.

    LorMal wrote: »
    That's because we recruited badly. Which is my point. Surely we could have managed to find a decent international level 13? And the others have been disappointing as well, no?

    LorMal wrote: »
    Why the sarcasm? What is the issue here? Are we just supposed to praise every player to the hilt and bask in the glow of how world class we are? Is it not even a valid point to suggest that perhaps we could have recruited better that Teo, Douglas, Kirchner, Gopperth.

    I've been debating with you about your views on the recruitment of T'eo, which all stemmed from you thinking he should leave the team or rather never be recruited in the first place.


  • Options
    #568
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    LorMal wrote: »
    Fair enough - I do not know the market well enough to argue that. However, I dont think it is a shrewd and clever signing and I wish he would start Luke at 13 instead.

    Personally I think Luke is a better 11. I personally would start Luke at 13 for a game this big, but I do see the point of having him at 11 and T'eo at 13, T'eo had a good game against Bath and they've a very potent midfield and he didn't look too out of place.


  • Options
    #569
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    Why the sarcasm? What is the issue here? Are we just supposed to praise every player to the hilt and bask in the glow of how world class we are? Is it not even a valid point to suggest that perhaps we could have recruited better that Teo, Douglas, Kirchner, Gopperth.

    You just entirely ignored my question. Where is this international level 13 player who we should have signed? Were there any available that we could afford or are you being entirely unrealistic?


  • Options
    #570
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    .ak wrote: »
    Personally I think Luke is a better 11. I personally would start Luke at 13 for a game this big, but I do see the point of having him at 11 and T'eo at 13, T'eo had a good game against Bath and they've a very potent midfield and he didn't look too out of place.

    Luke is a better 11...and a better 13. We have other options at 11.

    Anyway, its looking bleak.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #571
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You just entirely ignored my question. Where is this international level 13 player who we should have signed? Were there any available that we could afford or are you being entirely unrealistic?

    yep I have


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement