Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

total former · 08-04-2015 4:19pm

EPC have just facebooked that Leinster have won the toss and will get the "home team" dressing room for the semi-final.

An omen, I tell you.

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:19pm

LorMal wrote: »

Luke is a better 11...and a better 13. We have other options at 11.

Anyway, its looking bleak.

We have other options at 11, but none as good as Luke.

Personally I think 11. Fitzgerald 13. T'eo is better than 11. Kearney 13. Fitzgerald.

I think our biggest issue is at 12. I really hope Madigan clicks there. Or maybe just bring Darce back in... but then we lose Madigan's golden boot.

Greyian · 08-04-2015 4:19pm

total former wrote: »

EPC have just facebooked that Leinster have won the toss and will get the "home team" dressing room for the semi-final.

An omen, I tell you.

Leinster vs Saracens final so...but who will have the home dressing room for the final?

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:20pm

total former wrote: »

EPC have just facebooked that Leinster have won the toss and will get the "home team" dressing room for the semi-final.

An omen, I tell you.

Cool, we should complain about the facilities and demand it be moved to the RDS.

irishbucsfan · 08-04-2015 4:20pm

LorMal wrote: »

yep I have

So you're happy to just sit there and criticise completely unrealistically without suggesting any viable alternatives?

Fair enough, that's your choice. Hopefully someone can turn up and raise the standard of debate at some point.

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:22pm

.ak wrote: »

We have other options at 11, but none as good as Luke.

Personally I think 11. Fitzgerald 13. T'eo is better than 11. Kearney 13. Fitzgerald.

I think our biggest issue is at 12. I really hope Madigan clicks there. Or maybe just bring Darce back in... but then we lose Madigan's golden boot.

Not necessarily.......

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:23pm

LorMal wrote: »

Not necessarily.......

Well if MOC played Madigan and Darce that'd be suicidal. Neither have played together recently and Madigan especially is lacking on gametime at 10.

total former · 08-04-2015 4:24pm

.ak wrote: »

Well if MOC played Madigan and Darce that'd be suicidal. Neither have played together recently and Madigan especially is lacking on gametime at 10.

It looks like D'Arcy will play this weekend, and Gopperth needs a rest, so...

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:25pm

.ak wrote: »

Well if MOC played Madigan and Darce that'd be suicidal. Neither have played together recently and Madigan especially is lacking on gametime at 10.

Some would argue (me that is) that it is suicidal to stay as is...

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:26pm

It's a hard place for MOC then. Gopperth has a silly amount of minutes built up, and does need a rest, but I think what Madigan needs right now is to get his game at 12 sorted, because I can't see Gopperth not starting against Toulon the week after.

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:26pm

LorMal wrote: »

Some would argue (me that is) that it is suicidal to stay as is...

Well argue away then - but we changed up our outhalf the last time around and it didn't work out brilliantly either...

Sangre · 08-04-2015 4:27pm

.ak wrote: »

I think he will, but it might be a lot to expect of him. Having a utility player like Isa may be very beneficial. Also remember he's a very good goal kicker, might take a bit of heat off whoever plays 10.

If McFadden doesn't travel to RWC I imagine he will do a lot of the kicking (if needed).

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:29pm

Sangre wrote: »

If McFadden doesn't travel to RWC I imagine he will do a lot of the kicking (if needed).

Would be interesting if he does. He hasn't kicked a ball over the crossbars in a match situation for some time now.

irishbucsfan · 08-04-2015 4:29pm

Gopperth does have a lot of gametime built up, resting him makes sense for me. I still think it'll be himself and Madigan at 10-12 against Toulon, and that's a real problem area.

I'm not particularly convinced we can win with that midfield, I'd be interested to see what Madigan/D'Arcy can do.

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:32pm

.ak wrote: »

Well argue away then - but we changed up our outhalf the last time around and it didn't work out brilliantly either...

Actually, in all fairness I agree with you. That would be a step too far.

My backs would be (injury permitting) 9 Redden, 10 Gopperth, 11 Dave K, 12 Darcy, 13 Luke F, 14 Mc Fadden, 15 Madigan!!

Greyian · 08-04-2015 4:37pm

.ak wrote: »

Well argue away then - but we changed up our outhalf the last time around and it didn't work out brilliantly either...

In fairness, it could also be said that "we played Gopperth at outhalf the last time around and it didn't work out brilliantly".

Realistically though, there just isn't anyone in the Leinster squad good enough at 10 to inspire any degree of confidence against Toulon. If we're going to beat them (and it's a big ask), it's likely going to be in spite of who we play at 10, not because of who we play there.

molloyjh · 08-04-2015 4:39pm

.ak wrote: »

I completely agree, but that's not what the debate is about.

Are you sure? The initial post on todays conversation is below and it seems to me that the quality of the signing was very much the point, as much and all as I don't agree with it.....

LorMal wrote: »

I think you are setting the bar too low if you're happy with Te'o as our 13. My opinion is that this is too important a position to be allocated to a player who is still in development in Rugby Union.
I have been accused of xenophobia here by some gob****e but the reality is that all of our imported recently players have failed to reach the highest standards. I would include Jimmy G, Kirshner, Douglas, Te'o.
They just don't compare to the likes of Rocky, Isa, Hines, Stan. (I do appreciate we also had a couple of duds over the years)
Surely a NIQ is only worth employing if he is very significantly better than the alternatives available in the club?

LorMal wrote: »

Is it not even a valid point to suggest that perhaps we could have recruited better that Teo, Douglas, Kirchner, Gopperth.

Only if there were better alternatives. If there weren't then they are not valid points.

Greyian wrote: »

Would Ross Byrne not be an option for the bench (during the RWC)?

Unless we sign someone then yes we are looking at Marsh and Byrne at 10. Neither of whom have played a single second at senior level this season and only one of whom has a cap in 2 seasons (Marsh has one cap for 15 minutes). If we are not signing someone to cover 10 then this is a fairly big issue IMO.

.ak wrote: »

Well argue away then - but we changed up our outhalf the last time around and it didn't work out brilliantly either...

Ah in fairness that was an extreme case where Gopperth hadn't played at all in 6 weeks. Mads will have a fair bit of game time, and even some of it at 10 in the 6 Nations, as it stands. Plus we have a game between now and the SF. The two scenarios are pretty chalk and cheese.

LorMal wrote: »

Actually, in all fairness I agree with you. That would be a step too far.

My backs would be (injury permitting) 9 Redden, 10 Gopperth, 11 Dave K, 12 Darcy, 13 Luke F, 14 Mc Fadden, 15 Madigan!!

Ehhhhhhhh, no.

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:43pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Are you sure? The initial post on todays conversation is below and it seems to me that the quality of the signing was very much the point, as much and all as I don't agree with it.....

I think you're getting confused. (I don't blame you)

Podge_irl wrote: »

Probably shouldn't be starting European knock-out games at this point though.

That's the post I replied to. The point I'm debating with LorMal is that he/she thinks T'eo wasn't a good signing or shouldn't be in the squad at all. Those are two very different points.

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:43pm

Well, I seem to remember Madigan playing some excellent games at FB in the past? Rob Kearney has been very poor recently. We need Madigans place kicking. If he is a weak point at 12 (as has been argued) and not experienced enough to be picked at 10 (which i would not necessarily agree with), could he not play 15?

Greyian · 08-04-2015 4:44pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Unless we sign someone then yes we are looking at Marsh and Byrne at 10. Neither of whom have played a single second at senior level this season and only one of whom has a cap in 2 seasons (Marsh has one cap for 15 minutes). If we are not signing someone to cover 10 then this is a fairly big issue IMO.

Cathal Marsh is older than George Ford. Come the start of next season, Ross Byrne will be ~6 months younger than Ford was for his senior 6 Nations debut. At some point, we'd just going to have to bite the bullet and give them game time. If we don't do it during the RWC, I don't see when that's going to be.

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:44pm

Greyian wrote: »

In fairness, it could also be said that "we played Gopperth at outhalf the last time around and it didn't work out brilliantly".

Realistically though, there just isn't anyone in the Leinster squad good enough at 10 to inspire any degree of confidence against Toulon. If we're going to beat them (and it's a big ask), it's likely going to be in spite of who we play at 10, not because of who we play there.

True. But I think at the moment we're suffering at 10/12 the most so we need to give whoever is going to play there a consistent run.

.ak · 08-04-2015 4:45pm

LorMal wrote: »

Well, I seem to remember Madigan playing some excellent games at FB in the past? Rob Kearney has been very poor recently. We need Madigans place kicking. If he is a weak point at 12 (as has been argued) and not experienced enough to be picked at 10 (which i would not necessarily agree with), could he not play 15?

Which ones?

(Blackrock games don't count)

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:46pm

.ak wrote: »

I think you're getting confused. (I don't blame you)

That's the post I replied to. The point I'm debating with LorMal is that he/she thinks T'eo wasn't a good signing or shouldn't be in the squad at all. Those are two very different points.

Yep - I am confused myself!! To clarify 1. I dont think Teo should be starting high level matches at this stage 2. I dont think he was a good signing to replace BOD 3. I am not sure who would have been. (I rarely see French/Southern Hemisphere club games)

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:48pm

.ak wrote: »

Which ones?

(Blackrock games don't count)

Ah Jaysus...which games?.... ... Some rugby games with Leinster in them.

Fireball07 · 08-04-2015 4:49pm

Paddy Jackson was pulled from the JWC to train with Ulster during his 2nd year at the age grade. I see a lot of parallels with Ross Byrne tbh- Byrne is very possibly the standout player in what is a very talented backline, I reckon he could definitely do a job along with Marsh when a lot of squads will be depleted.

Bridge93 · 08-04-2015 4:49pm

.ak wrote: »

Which ones?

(Blackrock games don't count)

Funnily enough when Madigan was a 6th year his SCT went out to Kilkenny in the QFs after a replay after Madigan missed penalties in both games to win them in the last few mins.

Podge_irl · 08-04-2015 4:50pm

.ak wrote: »

That's the post I replied to. The point I'm debating with LorMal is that he/she thinks T'eo wasn't a good signing or shouldn't be in the squad at all. Those are two very different points.

They are and I'm closer to your viewpoint than LorMal's. I think Teo was a very shrewd signing but frankly for next season not this one. I don't remotely think that 11 fitz 13 Teo is better than any combination with fitz at 13. Fitz was completely dominant in that defensive channel all group.

molloyjh · 08-04-2015 4:51pm

Greyian wrote: »

Cathal Marsh is older than George Ford. Come the start of next season, Ross Byrne will be ~6 months younger than Ford was for his senior 6 Nations debut. At some point, we'd just going to have to bite the bullet and give them game time. If we don't do it during the RWC, I don't see when that's going to be.

Sorry, should have been clearer. The reason it's an issue is because they haven't had the game time yet. I feel we should have given Marsh some time this season and we're putting ourselves in a tight spot come the RWC because we haven't.

LorMal · 08-04-2015 4:51pm

IAN MADIGAN’S RUGBY smarts have seen him grow quickly into a dependable option at full-back, coach Jono Gibbes says.
What started as a stop-gap measure prompted by Rob Kearney’s back injury has become a more familiar sight and for a third successive game, Madigan donned the number 15 jersey in Saturday’s Heineken Cup win against Scarlets.
In the past Isa Nacewa has traditionally deputised in Kearney’s absence, but with his squad returning to full strength, head coach Joe Schmidt decided against a reshuffle in the backs and left Nacewa on the wing for the trip to Parc y Scarlets.
Madigan was sin-binned late on as Leinster won 20-13, further extending their unbeaten European run. By spending time at both out-half and full-back in the early part of this season, the 23-year-old has developed a strong understanding of how the back line ticks, Gibbes says.
“To be fair to Mads, he’s stepped in there and I think he’s grown in that position in each game. He’s got a better understanding of it.
“Obviously when Jonny’s not playing, he’s in that 10 position so he’s got a lot of understanding of how we’re trying to play. Having him on the field as well as Jonny, there’s a good bit of brains out there. He can see things from the back to feed in. He’s got a good kicking game, he’s very confident under the high ball and he’s brave on defence.

sydthebeat · 08-04-2015 4:54pm

LorMal wrote: »

Yep - I am confused myself!! To clarify 1. I dont think Teo should be starting high level matches at this stage 2. I dont think he was a good signing to replace BOD 3. I am not sure who would have been. (I rarely see French/Southern Hemisphere club games)

1. lack of alternatives coupled with above expected performances make sit so

2. WAY too early to call, plus, BOD is irreplaceable.

3. Invalidates 2 above

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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