Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

vienne86

That's a decent team we have for tomorrow night - great to have Ruddock and McCarthy, and delighted that T'eo is back. Also delighted McGrath and Marsh are getting another run together.

stephen_n

That's a strong looking Glasgow backline, defence will tested there, I assume it's Ruddock covering the second row and not Dom Ryan.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

That's a strong looking Glasgow backline, defence will tested there, I assume it's Ruddock covering the second row and not Dom Ryan.

The defence is where the test comes. They've struggled there at times this season.

Fair enough in a couple of areas we have internationals to come back in but in others these guys could be our starting team. In particular our midfield need to really put their hands up in defence this week, Noel Reid has it all to play for imo or else we might see Fitzgerald being used in midfield instead.

gamma001

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The defence is where the test comes. They've struggled there at times this season.

Fair enough in a couple of areas we have internationals to come back in but in others these guys could be our starting team. In particular our midfield need to really put their hands up in defence this week, Noel Reid has it all to play for imo or else we might see Fitzgerald being used in midfield instead.

Has luke played 12 much?

irishbucsfan

gamma001 wrote: »

Has luke played 12 much?

The last he played there for Leinster was under Joe, when he had a run of games at 12.

But with D'Arcy gone there's not much else available to us there now. There's Reid and Madigan but I don't think Madigan is much use there so either Reid steps up or they need to look elsewhere and the next options would be Fitzgerald or McFadden and I think the chances of McFadden getting another look at 12 are fairly slim. Hopefully Reid steps up to the next level though.

WarZ

Dominic Ryan should be cut at the end of the season, he's really playing poor and taking up space when other more promising players could be filling. I reckon his ship has sailed.

vienne86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The last he played there for Leinster was under Joe, when he had a run of games at 12.

But with D'Arcy gone there's not much else available to us there now. There's Reid and Madigan but I don't think Madigan is much use there so either Reid steps up or they need to look elsewhere and the next options would be Fitzgerald or McFadden and I think the chances of McFadden getting another look at 12 are fairly slim. Hopefully Reid steps up to the next level though.

I hope Reid does step up. I think he's our best prospect at the moment.

WarZ

vienne86 wrote: »

I hope Reid does step up. I think he's our best prospect at the moment.

That's incredibly bleak. Reid is small and shies away from collisions. Basteraud would eat him up. He reminds me of Monty Burns. An elite centre he will never be.

irishbucsfan

WarZ wrote: »

That's incredibly bleak. Reid is small and shies away from collisions. Basteraud would eat him up. He reminds me of Monty Burns. An elite centre he will never be.

He's certainly not small, just needs to improve his defense in that channel. McQuilkin is going to be as good as anyone to bring that out in him. I'd agree he's our best prospect there at the moment.

awec

I think by best prospect you mean only prospect ibf.

CatFromHue

the two greatest words in the english language...de fault, de fault, de fault

:P

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

I think by best prospect you mean only prospect ibf.

Tom Daly in the academy is a big unit and is captain of the Irish 7s squad at the moment. The 7s experience could really stand to him. In the short term won't be an option though I'd imagine.

Journeyman_1

Unless Reid is able to nail that jersey down in the next few weeks, Madigan will likely be playing a lot of 12 this year. He's too good to be sitting on the bench for 60-70% of the Pro12. That said, I reckon Reid is a better 12, or at least can be a better 12.

errlloyd

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Unless Reid is able to nail that jersey down in the next few weeks, Madigan will likely be playing a lot of 12 this year. He's too good to be sitting on the bench for 60-70% of the Pro12. That said, I reckon Reid is a better 12, or at least can be a better 12.

I feel like in the pro12 Madigan will play ten, in cup games he's gonna bench, teo will 12 and Fitz 13.

irishbucsfan

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Unless Reid is able to nail that jersey down in the next few weeks, Madigan will likely be playing a lot of 12 this year. He's too good to be sitting on the bench for 60-70% of the Pro12. That said, I reckon Reid is a better 12, or at least can be a better 12.

He's certainly not too good as a 12 to be sitting on the bench. He's pretty poor in that position in recent seasons. With Sexton back there's little need to play Madigan at 12 because we don't need his goal kicking.

In the short term at least we need to prepare for the possibility that Sexton might be out injured as well.

Journeyman_1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He's certainly not too good as a 12 to be sitting on the bench. He's pretty poor in that position in recent seasons. With Sexton back there's little need to play Madigan at 12 because we don't need his goal kicking.

In the short term at least we need to prepare for the possibility that Sexton might be out injured as well.

We didn't need his kicking in the last few years, Gopperth was a fine goal-kicker. He was the best 12 available most of the time though, and it's likely to be close between himself and Reid this year imo.

irishbucsfan

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

We didn't need his kicking in the last few years, Gopperth was a fine goal-kicker. He was the best 12 available most of the time though, and it's likely to be close between himself and Reid this year imo.

Well he's not our best option at 12 in terms of his own play in the position. He doesn't project to be better than 12 either, he's smaller and his distribution isn't as good, they're both weak defensively at times.

He was kicking when selected there and that, coupled with Gopperth's kicking performances before the European games as well as what the coach actually said, gives a pretty decent clue as to why he was playing 12 last year in the big games. I think it's much much more likely he'll be on the bench for us this season and starting at 10 in most of our Pro 12 games.

WarZ

I think we're going to see a different Madigan now that Matt O'Connor is gone.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well he's not our best option at 12 in terms of his own play in the position. He doesn't project to be better than 12 either, he's smaller and his distribution isn't as good, they're both weak defensively at times.

He was kicking when selected there and that, coupled with Gopperth's kicking performances before the European games as well as what the coach actually said, gives a pretty decent clue as to why he was playing 12 last year in the big games. I think it's much much more likely he'll be on the bench for us this season and starting at 10 in most of our Pro 12 games.

I honestly hope Marsh gets at least some of that game time tbh. He'll be our starting 10 during the international windows and should be aiming to stake a real claim to be Johnnys back-up. Mads simply hasn't developed the way he needed to and time is fast running out for him.

irishbucsfan

WarZ wrote: »

I think we're going to see a different Madigan now that Matt O'Connor is gone.

I think we'll see the same player we've always seen regardless of coach. He's back now where he's most comfortable, as an alternative option but hopefully not having to start games that don't suit him.

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

I think we're going to see a different Madigan now that Matt O'Connor is gone.

Not this bloody chestnut again!

Look I was no fan of MOC. My posting history will back that up no end. But Mads has always had particular issues with his game that he simply hasn't rectified. How can any of us possibly know whether Mads didn't kick on because he didn't get game time or that he didn't get game time because he didn't kick on?

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

I honestly hope Marsh gets at least some of that game time tbh. He'll be our starting 10 during the international windows and should be aiming to stake a real claim to be Johnnys back-up. Mads simply hasn't developed the way he needed to and time is fast running out for him.

I'd love for that to be the case. I'd love it if Dempsey wants to give Marsh that game time instead of Madigan, I'm not sure Marsh is the long term answer either but he's certainly looked a better option this season and he has a lot of experience playing with McGrath and working with Dempsey. I'm not expecting it to happen because Madigan is in the Irish squad but I'd be happy to see it.

hogandrew

I see Adam Byrne scored for the A's. Is he progressing at all? I know he's involved with the 7's so will that be him pretty much out of contention for the first team until after the Olympics?

WarZ

Madigan was progressing very nicely under Schmidt, sure he was a bit rough around the edges but any progress that was made was soon lost when Matt O'Connor came barrelling into Leinster rugby. Madigan lost his confidence and was forced to play a rigid set game in which Matt O'Connor would send him out with so many plays that he would have to write them down on his wrist band. Madigan needs freedom, he needs to be creative and needs to play heads up rugby. Hopefully under the new coaching ticket he can shine.

Neil3030

WarZ wrote: »

Madigan was progressing very nicely under Schmidt, sure he was a bit rough around the edges but any progress that was made was soon lost when Matt O'Connor came barrelling into Leinster rugby. Madigan lost his confidence and was forced to play a rigid set game in which Matt O'Connor would send him out with so many plays that he would have to write them down on his wrist band. Madigan needs freedom, he needs to be creative and needs to play heads up rugby. Hopefully under the new coaching ticket he can shine.

Part underlined: Wasn't the situation the exact opposite under MOC?
Part bolded: Wasn't this the exact situation under MOC?

WarZ

Neil3030 wrote: »

Part underlined: Wasn't the situation the exact opposite under MOC?
Part bolded: Wasn't this the exact situation under MOC?

No that's what MOC claimed he was trying but I watched Madigan scratching his head and frantically reading play lists before coming on.

MOC thought it was the NFL..

irishbucsfan

Sounds like the A team aboslutely demolished the Ravens. 37-7 was the last score I heard. Good to see they're not missing Girv too much, Ravens aren't in the best shape but the Hogan/Berne era for the A side gets off to a good start at least.

Team was:

15. Adam Byrne
14. Darragh Fanning
13. Thomas Farrell
12. Tom Daly
11. Mick McGrath
10. Joey Carbery
9. Charlie Rock
1. Jeremy Loughman
2. Sean McNulty
3. Oisin Heffernan
4. Tadhg Beirne
5. Gavin Thornbury
6. David O'Connor
7. Peader Timmins CAPTAIN
8. Tony Ryan

Replacements

16. Bryan Byrne
17. Ian Hirst
18. Royce Burke-Flynn
19. Max Deegan
20. Will Connors
21. Rory O'Loughlin
22. Harrison Brewer
23. Jimmy O'Brien
24. Hugo Keenan

CIARAN_BOYLE

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

We didn't need his kicking in the last few years, Gopperth was a fine goal-kicker. He was the best 12 available most of the time though, and it's likely to be close between himself and Reid this year imo.

Gopperth was a 65% kicker last season. Madigan is a 90% kicker. We needed Madigans kicking.

Reid Darcy or Fitzgerald would have been a better option at 12 a lot of the time Madigan was picked but 25% kicking is a big difference.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sounds like the A team aboslutely demolished the Ravens. 37-7 was the last score I heard. Good to see they're not missing Girv too much, Ravens aren't in the best shape but the Hogan/Berne era for the A side gets off to a good start at least.

Team was:

Any idea who scored?

.ak

1st choice for me right now is:

Kearney
Nacewa
Teo
Reid
Fitzgerald
Sexton
Reddan
Heaslip
SOB
Ruddock
McCarthy
Toner
Ross
Strauss
McGrath

Cronin
Healy
Moore
Denton?
Murphy
McGrath or Boss
Madigan
McFadden or kirchner or Dave Kearney