Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

stephen_n

RichieRich89 wrote: »

There might be something in that but I think Ringrose has looked more physically capable than Reid, say

His physicality has really impressed me, particularly for a guy who doesn't look very built. If he's as good as we all hope he is, the chances are, he'll force his way in, but I'd be more than happy if that was next season, with a bit of experience under his belt.

shuffol

Zzippy wrote: »

How long has Ringrose spent in the academy? There is an argument that bringing in players too early can be detrimental in terms of their strength and conditioning. Tiernan O'Halloran has been quoted as saying going straight to a pro contract and skipping the academy was probably the reason he spent 2 or 3 seasons mostly injured. He lost out on the initial gradual strengthening and adding mass that the other guys had, and as a result his body wasn't really ready for the rigours of regular senior rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in Fitz's long term injuries too.
No reason not to bring in Ringrose now but maybe his gametime needs to be managed with a lighter workload than senior players...

Eoin Griffin is another player who was involved pretty quickly and has struggled through injury. Likewise Conway and Fitzgerald. Guys on the other side of the coin are Gilroy and Henshaw who've been regularly involved from 19 and relatively injury free.

I'd be more inclined to bring through a young player gradually unless their already well developed physically like Henshaw which I don't think Ringrose is. I think with fans there's an element of having a new toy to play with when a young talent emerges and they can't wait to get it out of the box.

aimee1

Pics on the42 of Leinster training with Sexton featuring in backline drills

Zzippy

shuffol wrote: »

Eoin Griffin is another player who was involved pretty quickly and has struggled through injury. Likewise Conway and Fitzgerald. Guys on the other side of the coin are Gilroy and Henshaw who've been regularly involved from 19 and relatively injury free.

I'd be more inclined to bring through a young player gradually unless their already well developed physically like Henshaw which I don't think Ringrose is. I think with fans there's an element of having a new toy to play with when a young talent emerges and they can't wait to get it out of the box.

Henshaw also played most of his first season at fullback, when Gavin Duffy was injured. Similar to Ringrose I suppose, got his chance when senior players were absent, played in a back 3 role before being moved to centre. He was noticeably bigger in his second season, but even when straight out of school he was probably more bulky than Ringrose.

molloyjh

A couple of pics that make me happy:

Squidgy Black

Is Isa wearing D'Arcy's training gear

Dravokivich

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Is Isa wearing D'Arcy's training gear

Never forget ;[

Clegg

Eh lads, when was the last time Fitz got injured? I'm getting worried he's due another one soon.

Stheno

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Is Isa wearing D'Arcy's training gear

I was wondering the same

Clegg wrote: »

Eh lads, when was the last time Fitz got injured? I'm getting worried he's due another one soon.

Ah jesus don't be giving way to the mockergods

Neil3030

Ben: "Then I just make little circles like this...."

Luke: "Soooo not comfortable right now....."

Interested Observer

So the lads are back in training but will many/any be available for selection this weekend? As far as I remember Treviso away wasn't Leinster's finest hour last season, be nice if a few RWC players were available. Some didn't get a huge amount of game time really.

The Lost Sheep

Interested Observer wrote: »

So the lads are back in training but will many/any be available for selection this weekend? As far as I remember Treviso away wasn't Leinster's finest hour last season, be nice if a few RWC players were available. Some didn't get a huge amount of game time really.

Will depend on work load from world cup I would imagine.

shuffol wrote: »

Eoin Griffin is another player who was involved pretty quickly and has struggled through injury. Likewise Conway and Fitzgerald. Guys on the other side of the coin are Gilroy and Henshaw who've been regularly involved from 19 and relatively injury free.

I'd be more inclined to bring through a young player gradually unless their already well developed physically like Henshaw which I don't think Ringrose is. I think with fans there's an element of having a new toy to play with when a young talent emerges and they can't wait to get it out of the box.

Its very hard to say when they should and I totally agree on your second paragraph.

Zzippy wrote: »

How long has Ringrose spent in the academy? There is an argument that bringing in players too early can be detrimental in terms of their strength and conditioning. Tiernan O'Halloran has been quoted as saying going straight to a pro contract and skipping the academy was probably the reason he spent 2 or 3 seasons mostly injured. He lost out on the initial gradual strengthening and adding mass that the other guys had, and as a result his body wasn't really ready for the rigours of regular senior rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in Fitz's long term injuries too.
No reason not to bring in Ringrose now but maybe his gametime needs to be managed with a lighter workload than senior players...

He's in his second year of academy now. That the provinces don't have the control over players that many other countries pro sides do means players will come through slightly later.

Heroditas

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ben: "Then I just make little circles like this...."

Luke: "Soooo not comfortable right now....."

" Remember we spent most of last season like this watching Jimmy putting snow on the ball time and time again? "

WarZ

There's a reason why players who make a massive effort in being optimal in their recovery (Heaslip) and who literally obsess over it remain injury free while those who are known to being less committed (TOH, Fitzgerald) get constantly injured.

I read a very interesting article from Heaslip about what he does post-game. Then that night I was in a nightclub and seen Fitzgerald out dancing around the place on the day he was ruled out of a game injured. I've seen TOH countless times in Dublin nightclubs when he was out injured.

Just a theory. I couldn't imagine Heaslip running around town if he had to recover from an injury.

errlloyd

WarZ wrote: »

Just a theory. I couldn't imagine Heaslip running around town if he had to recover from an injury.

I see Heaslip out and about plenty, more than I see Fitzgerald. It's easy to be committed and constantly working on it when you also have the luck. I'd say it was hard for someone like Fitz to constantly come back, just to get hurt again.

WarZ

errlloyd wrote: »

I see Heaslip out and about plenty, more than I see Fitzgerald. It's easy to be committed and constantly working on it when you also have the luck. I'd say it was hard for someone like Fitz to constantly come back, just to get hurt again.

I rarely see Heaslip out at all. Himself O'Driscoll, Sexton, D'arcy, Jennings and Reddan were rarely if ever seen.

The real culprits are Healy, Dominic Ryan, Luke Fitzgerald, Ruddock, Jordi Murphy and Conway and Leo Auvava (back in the day).

Literally always out and funnily enough Healy, Fitz, Ryan, Ruddock and Conway all had to deal with consistent injuries.

Maybe its a coincidence.

CatFromHue

BOD used to be out and about plenty.

I think you're looking at almost a list of young lads, who tend to go out, and comparing them to old lads, who tend not to go out.

Zzippy

Players are allowed to have a private life. Being out does not equal being on the p*ss or not doing your recovery/rehab professionally. No more posting details about players' social lives, they are entitled to privacy. Final warning

UnknownEntity

Zzippy wrote:

Players are allowed to have a private life. Being out does not equal being on the p*ss or not doing your recovery/rehab professionally. No more posting details about players' social lives, they are entitled to privacy. Final warning

Agreed!

shuffol

WarZ wrote: »

Healy, Fitz, Ryan, Ruddock and Conway all had to deal with consistent injuries.

Has he, maybe the past year but until this season I don't remember him being missing for extended periods. How many LH's have started for Ireland in the 6N since 2011. Unless you class his contacts always falling out as been constantly injured.

flouncer

Zzippy wrote: »

How long has Ringrose spent in the academy? There is an argument that bringing in players too early can be detrimental in terms of their strength and conditioning. Tiernan O'Halloran has been quoted as saying going straight to a pro contract and skipping the academy was probably the reason he spent 2 or 3 seasons mostly injured. He lost out on the initial gradual strengthening and adding mass that the other guys had, and as a result his body wasn't really ready for the rigours of regular senior rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in Fitz's long term injuries too.
No reason not to bring in Ringrose now but maybe his gametime needs to be managed with a lighter workload than senior players...

Zippy, this a huge reality of the game. I would like to hear ideas on how to protect and expand players roles. I look at ringrose as a massive talent but I worry about him moved to the pro12 so soon. And on the other side I would be the guy saying this is the guy we need in the pro12. So I respect your opinion. But where do you go. So I want to see Ross Byrne too. And I'm just your normal pundit.

Reality is its the same in gaa. If your good enough then your good enough. Its always been about the team. So tell me how this can be changed?

RuPi

I see former Blackrock College and Ireland Schools prop Oliver Jager has been named in the Canterbury Crusaders extended squad for the 2016 season, was he just a boarder at Blackrock? You would have thought one of the provinces would have tried to get him back from New Zealand.

errlloyd

If our academy players are getting hurt consistently but other countries are producing young players successfully, then the problem isn't necessarily they lack strength and conditioning, it's that the S&C they're doing sucks.

CIARAN_BOYLE

errlloyd wrote: »

If our academy players are getting hurt consistently but other countries are producing young players successfully, then the problem isn't necessarily they lack strength and conditioning, it's that the S&C they're doing sucks.

Other countries get into professional set ups younger. End of the school cup academy from 16?

ArmchairQB

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Other countries get into professional set ups younger. End of the school cup academy from 16?

Our lads are all sub academy by 18/19 and in the system since 16 for provincal teams. We don't risk youth like other countries do such as Wales and the Argies with their very young second rows to much emphasis on gym rather than playing, there has to be a happy balance

Bridge93

RuPi wrote: »

I see former Blackrock College and Ireland Schools prop Oliver Jager has been named in the Canterbury Crusaders extended squad for the 2016 season, was he just a boarder at Blackrock? You would have thought one of the provinces would have tried to get him back from New Zealand.

Yeah he was a boarder in school. Good player with good physical attributes. With the other options Leinster took in I'm not surprised he's not here but I agree other provinces maybe could have had a go.
He's been with Canterbury for a year so to get the step up is great for him

I'm not sure following England's policy of getting bulk on fast is worth pursuing tbh.

It helps them in U20s tournaments absolutely, as their huge physicality relative to opponents means that they can bulldoze other teams but is that all we're after? You find that a lot of England U20s disappear off the scene (even though there are more teams to go into than in Ireland!) when they start to play against more skilful players with similar physiques.

To my mind, the weight-grading instead of age-grading is one of the biggest factors in honing good ball skills in our 'less ball skill' positions (yes you props).

Too many younger guys are 'good at rugby' (relative to their age group) simply because they're bigger and stronger. We lose lots of players that might be skilful and deft because they simply can't compete physically with these guys.

This all happens before any of them reach physical maturity. Everyone knows a guy who at 16 went away for the summer and came back ~5 inches taller.

Rugby at underage levels simply rewards size too much imo. Negate that advantage by grading by weights, and you'll see the bigger guys forced to compete in terms of skills too.

I'm not sure how that can be done without the entire Island changing to the system though. Not sure that Leinster branch moving all ages below U18 to that system would make sense as a unilateral movement. It would also kill the Junior Cup / Senior Cup as we know it which some see as a bit of a lifeblood for Leinster rugby.

irishbucsfan

The impacts of the weight grading system are completely overstated. The bands are extremely wide and don't affect the vast majority of players.

It's entirely down to coaching and culture. It's the standard of coaching that needs to improve, the ability of coaches is where the discrepancy lies, and that needs to be addressed from the top down.

awec

Age seems like a completely arbitrary way to divide people up when it comes to a game that relies on physique as much as rugby though.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The impacts of the weight grading system are completely overstated. The bands are extremely wide and don't affect the vast majority of players.

It's entirely down to coaching and culture. It's the standard of coaching that needs to improve, the ability of coaches is where the discrepancy lies, and that needs to be addressed from the top down.

http://www.aucklandrugby.co.nz/Weights-and-Ages-Chart.aspx