Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Unfortunately McFadden is anything but a solid defensive center. Especially now after spending so little time there in such a long time.

Suggestions in the media were that Fitzgerald will be fit. If he is he should be starting in midfield really.

Absolutely, but if he and Te'o are injured what options have we? We're light on centres at the moment.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Absolutely, but if he and Te'o are injured what options have we? We're light on centres at the moment.

If Te'o and Fitzgerald are missing then I would start Ringrose or O'Shea in midfield. Someone who actually might have a long term future in the position rather than someone who we've seen struggle there in the past and who realistically isn't going to play there again, we might as well get some benefit out of it.

errlloyd

I'm with IBF here. If we're gonna risk it, might as well throw the house on it. Ringrose in the centre surrounded by experienced operators. It's home in the RDS, he can handle it. He's better than Andrew Goodman.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Te'o and Fitzgerald are missing then I would start Ringrose or O'Shea in midfield. Someone who actually might have a long term future in the position rather than someone who we've seen struggle there in the past and who realistically isn't going to play there again, we might as well get some benefit out of it.

Let Ringrose get a couple of pro12 caps at 13 before he jumps into European rugby there. If we started him at centre, Wasps would target him all day and probably get decent change out of it.

McFaddan is solid, will do fine in centre. At least we're not looking to AIL players to fill wing slots.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Let Ringrose get a couple of pro12 caps at 13 before he jumps into European rugby there. If we started him at centre, Wasps would target him all day and probably get decent change out of it.

McFaddan is solid, will do fine in centre. At least we're not looking to AIL players to fill wing slots.

McFadden is solid on the wing. He's not at center and that's why he hasn't featured there for a long time, despite it being a position of weakness. If Te'o and Fitzgerald are both out then there are other options who actually have a future at 13. O'Shea has experience and a strong partnership with Reid as well as a great relationship with our backs coach. Ringrose is the future. Either will do, keep McFadden in a position he can excel at. If we start McFadden and he gets exposed (which is just as likely imo) then we gain nothing in the long term.

Sangre

I may to fly to Cyprus for work on Monday. Due to limited flights, and time zone differences, I'll have to leave at 11 am on Sunday and will miss the game! :mad:

.ak

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm with IBF here. If we're gonna risk it, might as well throw the house on it. Ringrose in the centre surrounded by experienced operators. It's home in the RDS, he can handle it. He's better than Andrew Goodman.

Ah, but that's actually a good example... Ringrose may be more talented, but he lacks that experience and size that would see goodman get selected over him in this very situation.

Dravokivich

I thought Goodman was quite good... man.

Shame he was injured throughout his last season with us.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Te'o and Fitzgerald are missing then I would start Ringrose or O'Shea in midfield. Someone who actually might have a long term future in the position rather than someone who we've seen struggle there in the past and who realistically isn't going to play there again, we might as well get some benefit out of it.

If we were away then maybe I'd agree, but with the seriously punishing schedule we have our home games are even more important than usual at this stage. We can't afford to be looking to the future in this game. We need to get a result from it. I was just coming back on to post our fixture list until the next break. I'll post it below this. It should highlight how important a win on Sunday will be for our season.

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm with IBF here. If we're gonna risk it, might as well throw the house on it. Ringrose in the centre surrounded by experienced operators. It's home in the RDS, he can handle it. He's better than Andrew Goodman.

But Noel Reid will be at 12, and he only has 2 caps at European level, only 1 of which is a start. A Reid-Ringrose midfield may be the future, but it's bloody callow at present. I also think it's pretty unfair to throw a guy in the deep end like that. It may have worked 10-15 years ago but the game is very different now.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

If we were away then maybe I'd agree, but with the seriously punishing schedule we have our home games are even more important than usual at this stage. We can't afford to be looking to the future in this game. We need to get a result from it. I was just coming back on to post our fixture list until the next break. I'll post it below this. It should highlight how important a win on Sunday will be for our season.

Well if you think starting McFadden at center and Kirchner on the wing increases our chances of winning that much over McFadden on the wing and an actual midfielder at 13 then I completely disagree with you.

molloyjh

Since the last break Leinster have played 4 games:

Scarlets (a)
Glasgow (h)
Treviso (a)
Scarlets (h)

From now until the next break Leinster have 12 games:

Wasps (h)
Bath (a)
Ulster (h)
Glasgow (a)
Toulon (a)
Toulon (h)
Munster (a)
Connacht (h)
Ospreys (a)
Bath (h)
Wasps (a)
Dragons (a)

So that's 16 games in a row with no break, 9 of which are away from home and only 2 of which are against what we would genuinely consider poor opposition (Treviso and Dragons - who, after last season, maybe we shouldn't take for granted). That is a seriously punishing schedule with a lot of very tough games.

Given Player Welfare, which will probably need to be stricter after the RWC, we're going to be seriously stretched trying to get through this period. That we've won 3 from 4 so far is great, but the next 4 games could easily see us lose 2 games or more. Managing the period and the squad during it is going to be a huge ask for Leo and his pretty inexperienced group of coaches. Which means we're going to need to see a good deal of pragmatism. Home games are absolute must wins, even more so than ever before. So experimentation should be at a minimum there. We simply can't afford to make any mistakes. The next 12 weeks are going to be a real measure for where Leinster and the coaches are.

Clegg

I thought Fitzgerald was due back on Sunday? Are we back to the bad old days of "he'll be back in a few weeks"?

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well if you think starting McFadden at center and Kirchner on the wing increases our chances of winning that much over McFadden on the wing and an actual midfielder at 13 then I completely disagree with you.

Collie was poor in the centre away to Scarlets a few weeks back so I don't see him as an option at all. Especially not outside Reid. And Ringrose simply hasn't played enough for us at 13 at this level. Has he even gotten through 40 minutes there?

An actual midfielder with experience at this level should get the nod. Failing that whoever has most experience there at this level should IMO.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Collie was poor in the centre away to Scarlets a few weeks back so I don't see him as an option at all. Especially not outside Reid. And Ringrose simply hasn't played enough for us at 13 at this level. Has he even gotten through 40 minutes there?

An actual midfielder with experience at this level should get the nod. Failing that whoever has most experience there at this level should IMO.

OK, so when was the last time McFadden played 13 for Leinster and how many times has he played 13 for Leinster in the past 3 seasons?

We have players capable of playing that position. No point moving our best option for the right wing to a position where he has had real and demonstrable difficulties playing. Is it just that it's been so long since he played there for us that people have forgotten how weak he is in that position?

At least Collie has played that position for us in recent times. As has Ringrose. There's a reason McFadden hasn't played there despite us having major problems finding a long-term successor to BOD, going all the way back to BOD's injuries post World Cup 2011.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

OK, so when was the last time McFadden played 13 for Leinster and how many times has he played 13 for Leinster in the past 3 seasons?

We have players capable of playing that position. No point moving our best option for the right wing to a position where he has had real and demonstrable difficulties playing. Is it just that it's been so long since he played there for us that people have forgotten how weak he is in that position?

At least Collie has played that position for us in recent times. As has Ringrose. There's a reason McFadden hasn't played there despite us having major problems finding a long-term successor to BOD, going all the way back to BOD's injuries post World Cup 2011.

You know I'm not trying to say that Ferg is a 13 right? And that I agree with you on a lot of his issues in that position?

Look we're not going to agree and I don't have time to go trawling through websites trying to compare time at 13 of different players. I don't think Collie is an option and you pointed out yourself how poor he was defensively away to Scarlets. That's not what we need next to Reid in a European game. Surely we can agree on that at least? As for Ringrose that's probably just a difference in opinion. I don't think he's ready yet and I think it's less of a risk to put Ferg in at 13. That's not to say I don't think it's a risk. It's a pretty serious issue IMO actually. But our options aren't great.

stephen_n

I could easily see Madigan starting this game at 12, he is very solid defensively and with Sexton inside him he may function better there. Still don't see ringrose starting though, it's just too soon, no matter how good he is. Maybe we'll see a complete curveball with Kirchner starting there although I can't remember any occasion he played 13 for us, but supposedly did in the past?

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

You know I'm not trying to say that Ferg is a 13 right? And that I agree with you on a lot of his issues in that position?

Look we're not going to agree and I don't have time to go trawling through websites trying to compare time at 13 of different players. I don't think Collie is an option and you pointed out yourself how poor he was defensively away to Scarlets. That's not what we need next to Reid in a European game. Surely we can agree on that at least? As for Ringrose that's probably just a difference in opinion. I don't think he's ready yet and I think it's less of a risk to put Ferg in at 13. That's not to say I don't think it's a risk. It's a pretty serious issue IMO actually. But our options aren't great.

You're saying that McFadden is better at 13 currently than two players who play the position full-time. Which is just as good as far as I'm concerned.

When was the last time you saw McFadden play 13?

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Which is just as good as far as I'm concerned.

And that's fair enough. I disagree. We've both stated why we believe what we do, let's just chalk this down to a difference of opinion and move on.

shuffol

I'd be looking at the forecast before selecting who to play 13, if it's going to be a miserable day I'd pick Mcfadden, carries like an extra forward and with not much ball going wide he should be ok.

On a good day I'd back Ringrose, it's a step up but it's not like it's a WC final and he's looked more than capable so far, He's technically an excellent center which Mcfadden isn't, either offensively or defensively.

LostArt

backline that trained this morning was McGrath, Sexton, Kearney, Reid, McFadden, Ringrose and Madigan.

shuffol

Would that suggest that Sexton isn't comfortable kicking. Mad looking backline anyway.

Journeyman_1

Surely either Nacewa or Kirchner, two actual fullbacks of international standard, would be better than Madigan? McFadden can kick if Sexton isn't up to it.

awec

Surely you have a better 15 available than Madigan?

LostArt

Kirchner, Kearney and Isa didn't train

scott1974

Believe it or not, the backline we put out last year against Wasps was:

15 Ian Madigan, 14 Zane Kirchner, 13.Gordon D'Arcy, 12.Noel Reid, 11.Darragh Fanning, 10.Jimmy Gopperth, 9.Eoin Reddan

The pack included Dom Ryan and Michael Bent...

On balance I think we'll field a stronger team on Sunday...

Journeyman_1

LostArt wrote: »

Kirchner, Kearney and Isa didn't train

Wow, its tough to have that many quality FBs and have them all unavailable at the same time. If they are out, then the above backline is pretty much all we can do unless you want to stick young Kelleher in, and I don't see that as very likely, especially in such a make-shift backline.

former total

Cittadini has been suspended for one week, so he misses the Leinster game.

scott1974

former total wrote: »

Cittadini has been suspended for one week, so he misses the Leinster game.

And Mullan has missed a few games with injury, not sure if he's back so they are a bit light in the front row. Might be a case of keeping it tight based on the players we put out and the weather..

thomond2006

Ma'a Nonu has just been deregistered for the pool stages. So he's ineligible for the matches vs Leinster. No mention of why this has been done.

ssaye2

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ma'a Nonu has just been deregistered for the pool stages. So he's ineligible for the matches vs Leinster. No mention of why this has been done.

Murray Kinsella says players can be reregistered and can play V Leinster