Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

former total

It was monumentally stupid from Conan. The game was well over at that point but still, inexcusable.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

DK Knocked the ball on, resetting the offside line. (He wasn't in the dead ball area either)

Conan, who was ahead of DK, picked up the ball from this now offside position.

The knock on infringement was ignored due to playing advantage to Wasps, as obvious advantage occurred as a penalty was awarded instead.

Great explanation, thanks! We were scratching our heads trying to figure that out.

In fairness, I thought the ref had a decent game - hope he stays injury free.

Yeah, the referee was excellent imo.

errlloyd

I thought he was grand, for a young guy reffing in his second language I was pretty happy with him. Game lacked flow, but I don't think that was his fault to be fair.

errlloyd

I think a poor result against Wasps would make me feel like it was time to start integrating younger players. I am not saying sacrificing the under 20s to Toulon, but I'd certainly like to see McGrath, Ringrose and Van Der Flier start a European cup game in the pool stages if we're out, even if all the competition is fit.

It's hard to say we should put people like Murphy, Reddan and Zane on the bench for a while, because those guys actually aren't tired from the WC, but maybe DK, RK, and Heaslip could do with a break.

Clearlier

thebaz wrote: »

oh if life was so clearcut - when something goes wrong you can always blame the other person - the All Blacks / Argentina have a clear leader at the helm , and thats what Leinster should copy , worked pretty good when Joe and Cheika were in charge - the director/coach ticket has been a disaster in soccer, which IS relevant to the management of professional rugby

I don't really follow football so could be wrong but I though that it was just English soccer that followed that model and that most other serious European football clubs had a director of football type in place?

A quick google suggests that the above is the case but I don't know the details. Given the amount of money in English football I'm pretty sure that they punch slightly below their weight in European football which doesn't suggest that their model is a particularly good one.

Following his retirement and with all the valedictory stuff going around I was interested to read that aside from his very early days Alex Ferguson was not a coach and it's clear that although he was the figurehead and leader that his head coach was always very important.

vang

Interesting re our pool from Bath Chairman

"It is very clear to me that the Toulon match can't happen," Craig told the Daily Telegraph.

"There are simply no free weekends available between now and the end of the season. It is unacceptable that the international calendar does not take into account the domestic game.

"We are playing matches right through the 2016 Six Nations championship to get everything fitted in. There are 33 weekends all accounted for and no slack," he added.

"The midweek option is not an option to my mind as that would be to the detriment of player welfare as well as the integrity of two competitions. There is no way we should be letting that happen. You can't play three high-profile games in a week."

Craig said the issue was "not a serious matter" when viewed in the wider context of the events in Paris but the decision was of "significant consequence" from a rugby point of view.

The Bath chairman also criticised the decision to sanction an England tour of Australia at the end of a World Cup season.

"Why England are going off on a tour to Australia at the end of a World Cup season I don't know. What is the point? The players will be knackered," he said.

"They are just being destroyed. Have a tour before a World Cup but not after one."

Thanos

"It can't happen" so what he want 2 points from that game?

I'm sure he would love that!!!

Clegg

Doubt we'll see guys like Ringrose or VdF thrown into the deep end in an away tie against a very good side like Bath. I reckon we'll keep a similar starting side with maybe a few lads coming back in from injury. We could probably do with giving Ringrose a go though. As much as I like McFadden as a wing, he just isn't good enough as a centre.

Clearlier

Some might argue that the problem is that the clubs are playing too many games rather than the countries. That aside he is correct that there aren't any free weekends and Ulster are going to have the same problem.

errlloyd

Clearlier wrote: »

Some might argue that the problem is that the clubs are playing too many games rather than the countries. That aside he is correct that there aren't any free weekends and Ulster are going to have the same problem.

Ulster have less of a problem. Because the pro12 and top14 started earlier, I think we physically do have a round or two off that the AP don't have. (The round may be during the international window, so perhaps a pro12 game will have to shifted to there, and the ERCC go during a pro12 weekend).

The AP have no weekends at all AFAIK.

icdg

PRL are playing on all the Six Nations weekends, which they normally wouldn't be. They also cancelled their cup competition (ostensibly just for the season, though I suspect most people other than the Welsh regions would be glad to see the back of it for good).

From a TV POV it works out slightly better that Sky rather than BT bore the brunt of the cancellations - had BT more than one match to show it could have caused problems with showing it midweek on a Champions League week given the extent to which their services (three of their four channels and eight red button services) are devoted to that competition.

Noopti

I wasn't even angry after the game, I was just stunned and disappointed.

It seems obvious to me that something needs to happen to give certain players a kick up the arse. Maybe that is dropping them, giving young lads a chance, while also forcing the veteran players to fight for their place? Hard to know from the outside.

This is where Cullen will earn his stripes. He is a former team mate for most of these players, and now he has to make some tough decisions regarding those players. Decisions that would have been much easier for an experienced coach who was new to Leinster to make, having no baggage.

Making wholesale changes won't help. But if players are not in form, or not showing the right levels of aggression and focus to do the job, they get booted no matter who they are. This needs to be a watershed moment for both Leinster and Leo as the head coach.

Interested Observer

Hope to god Fitz and Teo are available because that midfield was hopeless. If not Ringrose should start. We saw Reid shirking contact again and I just don't think he can be in the team anymore. Ruddock has to start if fit also. Dave Kearney needs to go too.

Larbre34

Bruce Craig :rolleyes:

Any chance they don't want to play us either, we could do with the bye...

Won't happen, but I would.......

molloyjh

Anyone else think Leinster could use a dedicated skills coach (again)? There were a lot of unforced errors; poor passes and sloppy handling as well as some poor kicking from hand at times. If we are looking to play more expansively surely we should be bringing in someone whose sole focus is the basics?

Dravokivich

Clearlier wrote: »

Some might argue that the problem is that the clubs are playing too many games rather than the countries. That aside he is correct that there aren't any free weekends and Ulster are going to have the same problem.

They set their league to start later in September/October this year. Its a problem of their own making really not to have that flexibility now as a result.

CatFromHue

Dravokivich wrote: »

They set their league to start later in September/October this year. Its a problem of their own making really not to have that flexibility now as a result.

World Rugby have a rule that there can be no high level domestic competition in a country hosting the RWC.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

World Rugby have a rule that there can be no high level domestic competition in a country hosting the RWC.

Premiership started on 16th October
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures/fixtures.php#uHym0q6O7Uq1ikrQ.97

World Cup ended on 31st
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/fixtures

It's not possible to fit the season in without overlap.

CatFromHue

Yeah and World Rugby want as little overlap as possible. The only way the Aviva could have been played to fit the international calendar was to to start it after the pool stages of the RWC had finished. If they started it any later then England wouldn't have been able to go to Australia next Summer.

The Aviva started 6 weeks earlier last season!

irishbucsfan

Thanos wrote: »

"It can't happen" so what he want 2 points from that game?

I'm sure he would love that!!!

They're talking about using a "periequative" (I've no idea if that's a real thing) equation to assign the points based on the results in all the other games. I've never seen that used in competition before, it'd be mad. I'd much prefer they played midweek but he referenced player welfare as the reason they don't want to do that which is understandable I guess.

CMOTDibbler

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They're talking about using a "periequative" (I've no idea if that's a real thing) equation to assign the points based on the results in all the other games. I've never seen that used in competition before, it'd be mad. I'd much prefer they played midweek but he referenced player welfare as the reason they don't want to do that which is understandable I guess.

Google says no!

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They're talking about using a "periequative" (I've no idea if that's a real thing) equation to assign the points based on the results in all the other games. I've never seen that used in competition before, it'd be mad. I'd much prefer they played midweek but he referenced player welfare as the reason they don't want to do that which is understandable I guess.

Who was it who ended up playing a two legged championship play off and B&I cup final in the space of about 10 days last year?

Flipper22

Deleted User wrote: »

DK Knocked the ball on, resetting the offside line. (He wasn't in the dead ball area either)

Conan, who was ahead of DK, picked up the ball from this now offside position.

The knock on infringement was ignored due to playing advantage to Wasps, as obvious advantage occurred as a penalty was awarded instead.

I often wonder why advantage is allowed in the form of a penalty in that situation, but not when a team knocks on and then, say, holds on at the next breakdown. One of my pet hates.

irishbucsfan

Flipper22 wrote: »

I often wonder why advantage is allowed in the form of a penalty in that situation, but not when a team knocks on and then, say, holds on at the next breakdown. One of my pet hates.

Do you mean the team who have the advantage should concede a penalty? Surely not much of an advantage!

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you mean the team who have the advantage should concede a penalty? Surely not much of an advantage!

I think he means like when a player knocks on, regathers himself, gets tackled in a position where he will almost certainly get turned over and holds on knowing he won't give away a penalty, he'll just end advantage. The referee calls advantage over before giving the defending team the chance to win the penalty.

Flipper22

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you mean the team who have the advantage should concede a penalty? Surely not much of an advantage!

No no the other way around, if a team knocks on and then regathers, there's often a good opportunity for the team with scrum advantage to get over the ball. If that happens the ref always goes back to the scrum advantage instead of giving a holding on penalty. I think they should wait a few seconds, especially if the team with scrum advantage has a good turnover/penalty opportunity.

Flipper22

errlloyd wrote: »

I think he means like when a player knocks on, regathers himself, gets tackled in a position where he will almost certainly get turned over and holds on knowing he won't give away a penalty, he'll just end advantage. The referee calls advantage over before giving the defending team the chance to win the penalty.

Exactly, phrased it better than I did!

Journeyman_1

I guess the ref can only play advantage if the team against the advantage does not have the ball. I don't know if that's a rule or just the way it works in reality.

former total

Looking ahead to this weekend, well, it can only get better. Unless Strauss, O'Brien and McCarthy are ruled out...

I dunno, we were so bad yesterday in nearly every facet of the game that part of it simply has to be down to trying to get the World Cup players re-introduced. The scrum, the lineout, the breakdown, the backline, the tackling, it was all poor - no way the players and coaches are that bad, they simply have to improve this weekend.

Hopefully we get a few guys back for Bath, I'm going to be optimistic about it.