Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

I can't see any of the concussion players from the weekend being available this week given all have history in that regards. I doubt we will see SOB, McCarthy, Strauss.

I actually think we need SOB fit and firing if we're to achieve anything this year. Even during games where we're struggling he is the only one that is having an impact the entire time he is on the field.

Clegg

Leavy hasn't been poor in his appearances for Leinster this season imo. VdF has just been that bit better. He well deserves his position in the squad right now.

errlloyd

I'd genuinely sooner start Mauro Bergamasco at scrum half and at least have the extra flanker on the field than see Reddan playing piss poor again.

ArmchairQB

Deleted User wrote: »

My best "guess"...

Healy Cronin Ross
Triggs Dev
Rhys Jordan Jamie
Boss Sexton
Dave Fitz Teo Ferg Isa

Tracey Jack Moore Denton Jvdf Redden Madigan Zane[/QUOTE

None of Healy, Reddan, Murphy deserve a start. Altough of the 3 Reddan probably is most likely to start

scott1974

I'd hope Ruddock is back (I know he's not 100%) and Murphy can drop to the bench with VDF openside...that's if SOB is not fit.
We turned over very little ball against Wasps and I'd like to see Isa at FB, I don't think RK will make it for this weekend.

Clegg

D'arcy thinks a lot of Leinster's problems have been caused by the world cup and that they were always going to struggle trying to fit as many players back into the side. That's fair enough, but it still doesn't excuse the lack of fight after the 60 minute mark. He seems to be a fan of Ringrose and is urging for more front foot ball to get the best out of him.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

My best "guess"...

Healy Cronin Ross
Triggs Dev
Rhys Jordan Jamie
Boss Sexton
Dave Fitz Teo Ferg Isa

Tracey Jack Moore Denton Jvdf Redden Madigan Zane

Rumours about that you're right on the scrum half calls anyway. And the lack of Ringrose in the 23.

I hope to God that isn't the case. If Fitz and Te'o are back then Reid and Kirchner are the ones that should fall out of the 23 altogether. I know Reid offers a lot going forward, but so does Fitz. And Fitz offers it without the defensive issues. Assuming Strauss, Maccer, SOB, Nacewa and Rob are all missing I'd like to see:

McGrath Cronin Ross
Toner Triggs
Ruddock Heaslip VDF

Reddan Sexton
Fitz Te'o
D Kearney Madigan McFadden

Tracey, Healy, Furlong, Molony, Conan, McGrath, Marsh, Ringrose

.ak

Id rather Kirchner at fullback than Madigan to be honest.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Id rather Kirchner at fullback than Madigan to be honest.

Kirchner may be a natural FB but I think Madigan has already shown he offers more there. He's more reliable under the high ball (even if he still isn't great there) and he seems to do better with a bit of space in front of him.

It's more a case of wanting Kirchner not to be there than wanting Madigan to be though.

vienne86

Well it'll be interesting to see how Sexton goes. He just wasn't with it at all on Sunday.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Kirchner may be a natural FB but I think Madigan has already shown he offers more there. He's more reliable under the high ball (even if he still isn't great there) and he seems to do better with a bit of space in front of him.

It's more a case of wanting Kirchner not to be there than wanting Madigan to be though.

Madigan is just a good footballer, has an eye for space and I think he could probably play 9 - 15 to a decent standard, just one of those players that have loads of natural gifts.

Kirchner however probably has a bit more read on the game and whilst one on one may not be defensively sounder, I'd be more assured with him covering back.

I'm not sure it's going to matter, I've huge concerns about our pack to be honest, I really hope we don't get another pasting, but I struggle to see where we are going to win this, struggling to be optimistic.

Exclamation Marc

I'd have Kirchner over Madigan any day of the week at FB. During the game on Sunday you could see Madigan getting pulled all around the park, overcommitting and leaving big gaps that thankfully weren't taken advantage of. Granted he's not a natural 15 so I don't expect him to be perfect but Kirchner has better positional awareness and is much faster on his feet so he can bomb around that space a lot quicker than Madigan can.

CatFromHue

I'd have ZK ahead of Madigan too

scott1974

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'd have ZK ahead of Madigan too

No word on Isa then? Please be fit Isa....

molloyjh

scott1974 wrote: »

No word on Isa then? Please be fit Isa....

I think we can take it as a given that Isa and Rob are both out.

JPNelsforearm

What has the season come to, actually wanting Kirchner to start a game...

Kirchner has been one of our best backs numerous times over the last two seasons and was in the Springbok squad (who made the semi finals that we failed to make). At times last year people were saying he was our *only* decent back.

He is no where even remotely as close to as bad as he gets made out to be on here. He's had a couple of stinkers, but a bad player he is not.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

Kirchner has been one of our best backs numerous times over the last two seasons and was in the Springbok squad (who made the semi finals that we failed to make). At times last year people were saying he was our *only* decent back.

He is no where even remotely as close to as bad as he gets made out to be on here. He's had a couple of stinkers, but a bad player he is not.

I too think he is a good full back. But he very seldom gets to play in that position for Leinster.

irishbucsfan

I would take McFadden on the right wing over Kirchner every day of the week. McFadden gets through more work inside, is more likely to do some damage going forward and is also a great support player after we make a break.

vienne86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would take McFadden on the right wing over Kirchner every day of the week. McFadden gets through more work inside, is more likely to do some damage going forward and is also a great support player after we make a break.

Kirchner at FB and McFadden on the wing......a lot of us would have liked that last weekend, but we've flogged that one to death.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

Kirchner has been one of our best backs numerous times over the last two seasons and was in the Springbok squad (who made the semi finals that we failed to make). At times last year people were saying he was our *only* decent back.

He is no where even remotely as close to as bad as he gets made out to be on here. He's had a couple of stinkers, but a bad player he is not.

He's been our best back on a handful of individual occasions. He hasn't shown any consistency in that regard at all. He's also been our worst back on a few individual occasions.

And while he was part of the Boks squad, how much game time did he see at the RWC? There's not much point in mentioning that if he spent almost the entire time holding tackle bags. He certainly wasn't instrumental in them making the SF.

He's not totally awful, but he's a long way short of what we would want and need from an NIQ signing, even if he isn't on huge money. Maybe I am being harsh on him, but if we're looking to play someone who may or may not deliver on the day I'd rather give that opportunity to a developing player than Kirchner. Even stick Dave back there and put Ringrose at 11.

errlloyd

Did Dave play 15 home against dragons last year? We lost, but I remember him being good.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

Did Dave play 15 home against dragons last year? We lost, but I remember him being good.

He did all right, but I've no recollection of that game at all. None. And I never will. What are you even talking about....

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

And while he was part of the Boks squad, how much game time did he see at the RWC?

About as much as Zebo got with Ireland!

They're comparable as well. Zebo looks solid on the wing but a bit lost at FB and Zane is the opposite.

CatFromHue

GT on Leinster from OTB

they'd a sequence of meetings on Tuesday morning followed by a major team meeting followed by a squad session.

Sounds good

scott1974

A glimmer of hope. Not the most reliable source but hopefully true

http://www.the42.ie/leinster-isa-nacewa-standards-champions-cup-2452972-Nov2015/

Tarf1234

Manufactured Miracle wrote: »

I'd have Kirchner over Madigan any day of the week at FB. During the game on Sunday you could see Madigan getting pulled all around the park, overcommitting and leaving big gaps that thankfully weren't taken advantage of. Granted he's not a natural 15 so I don't expect him to be perfect but Kirchner has better positional awareness and is much faster on his feet so he can bomb around that space a lot quicker than Madigan can.

Weren't taken advantage of? He was miles out of position for 2 tries! If that's not taking advantage I don't know what is. Does a roofy need to be involved??

molloyjh

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Weren't taken advantage of? He was miles out of position for 2 tries! If that's not taking advantage I don't know what is. Does a roofy need to be involved??

That depends on how you're playing it. The FB doesn't necessarily have to be the last man back. It looked to me like we used Dave in that role a bit rather than Madigan. There's no reason you can't have guys switching positions like that as required.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

That depends on how you're playing it. The FB doesn't necessarily have to be the last man back. It looked to me like we used Dave in that role a bit rather than Madigan. There's no reason you can't have guys switching positions like that as required.

Nah Mads left oodles of space at times that a better 10 or more aware centres would have taken advantage of. Not all his fault but it says a lot about our back three that they scored 3 tries without spending any time in our 22.

Tarf1234

molloyjh wrote: »

That depends on how you're playing it. The FB doesn't necessarily have to be the last man back. It looked to me like we used Dave in that role a bit rather than Madigan. There's no reason you can't have guys switching positions like that as required.

Hardly switching positions if there is no one there, switching would imply there was 2 people involved. If you're fullback you cannot leave the back field empty simple as. There is no way a good or even average FB would leave the back field empty before a winger had moved in to cover it.