Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

sydthebeat

bath -6 look good value in my opinion

tbm

Quint2010 wrote: »

No Ringrose at all?

Yeah, that seems odd. He's done nowt wrong and IMO he's good enough.

Even with the preferred midfield back in play, and Isa at 15, I hold out little hope. Boss occasionally has one of those games where he surprises you, but he hasn't had one in a while. Jordi Murphy really needs to remind people how good he is, because most - me included - have forgotten.

We'll be more competitive, but I reckon a 5-10 point loss. We'll be essentially done in Europe on a Saturday evening. Ah well...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

Temperatures set to be ~ 3degrees at the Rec tomorrow

A sauna compared to Connacht's adventures last week.

Podge_irl

Sweet mother of jesus, what the hell is the point of Boss. Just an awful, awful call.

tbm

tbm wrote: »

Yeah, that seems odd. He's done nowt wrong and IMO he's good enough.

Even with the preferred midfield back in play, and Isa at 15, I hold out little hope. Boss occasionally has one of those games where he surprises you, but he hasn't had one in a while. Jordi Murphy really needs to remind people how good he is, because most - me included - have forgotten.

We'll be more competitive, but I reckon a 5-10 point loss. We'll be essentially done in Europe on a Saturday evening. Ah well...

Any kind of loss this weekend, even a LBP will put is under intense pressure but we could still finish second given I think a few scalps are going to be traded in this group.

The one benefit of such a tough group, is that it will likely throw up a couple of interesting results. Losing at home to the lowest seed though is completely unforgivable and will be what people will rightly point to if we fail to progress.

errlloyd

I reckon that Ford - Eastmonde - Devoto backline weighs about the same as Ben Teo's right arm. I'm kind of happy they don't have Burgess and delighted they don't have Joseph.

Their wings are class though, Banahan underrated, Watson and Rokondonguni are terrific. We better hope Triggs and Toner play 80, and Boss only plays 25.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

I reckon that Ford - Eastmonde - Devoto backline weighs about the same as Ben Teo's right arm. I'm kind of happy they don't have Burgess and delighted they don't have Joseph.

Their wings are class though, Banahan underrated, Watson and Rokondonguni are terrific. We better hope Triggs and Toner play 80, and Boss only plays 25.

They more or less have too. Ruddock is the replacement Lock as best as I can tell and he is starting in the back row .... in his first game back from injury.

Heroditas

errlloyd wrote: »

I reckon that Ford - Eastmonde - Devoto backline weighs about the same as Ben Teo's right arm. I'm kind of happy they don't have Burgess and delighted they don't have Joseph.

Their wings are class though, Banahan underrated, Watson and Rokondonguni are terrific. We better hope Triggs and Toner play 80, and Boss only plays 25.

Banahan is not great. He's easily closed down and lacks the physicality you'd expect from a player that size. I'm never worried when I see him named in the Bath team.

(this will come back to bite me bigtime)

LostArt

errlloyd wrote: »

I reckon that Ford - Eastmonde - Devoto backline weighs about the same as Ben Teo's right arm. I'm kind of happy they don't have Burgess and delighted they don't have Joseph.

Their wings are class though, Banahan underrated, Watson and Rokondonguni are terrific. We better hope Triggs and Toner play 80, and Boss only plays 25.

If Matawalu could come on early that would be great!

irishbucsfan

Just don't understand the selection decisions around Ringrose and Boss. Wasting opportunities to develop real talent. When Te'o gets injured again we'll complain that Ringrose hasn't had elite experience. If Reddan or Boss lose form we'll complain McGrath doesn't have elite experience. We can't keep kicking the midfield/halfback depth can down the road.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

A sauna compared to Connacht's adventures last week.

I wasn't at that one though!

vienne86

Delghted to see T'eo, Fitz and Isa back in and McFadden back in his rightful place. Disappointed that Boss is there at all and that Ringrose is missing, and surprised enough to see Healy starting. Decent enough team.

Tarf1234

Why would anyone complain about Healy starting? He is one of only maybe 2 players we could argue is the best player in the world in his position. Second being Sexton, who had a poor game last week. It would be equally ridiculous to complain about him starting. The short-sightedness of some people on here is verging on the ridiculous. Does anyone remember the Aviva last year v Bath?? He was fairly destructive that day but as there is someone slightly younger who is in relatively decent form none of that should count??? What is that phrase about class and form?

I'm bemused as to why people are surprised at Bosses selection. This has been a relatively regular selection (excluding MOC years) reddan at home to bring tempo and Boss away for D and physicality.....

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about Healy starting? He is one of only maybe 2 players we could argue is the best player in the world in his position. Second being Sexton, who had a poor game last week. It would be equally ridiculous to complain about him starting. The short-sightedness of some people on here is verging on the ridiculous. Does anyone remember the Aviva last year v Bath?? He was fairly destructive that day but as there is someone slightly younger who is in relatively decent form none of that should count??? What is that phrase about class and form?

Because since he's come back from injury he's not a patch on the player he was? Maybe?

Tarf1234

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Because since he's come back from injury he's not a patch on the player he was? Maybe?

I presume we're scrapping SOB then ye, still not the same player after lay offs? DC came back from a lay off and struggled for form, I'd say NZ are ragging they didn't get rid of him, now same goes for McCaw. Really costs in the long term sticking by your truly world class players.

molloyjh

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about Healy starting? He is one of only maybe 2 players we could argue is the best player in the world in his position. Second being Sexton, who had a poor game last week. It would be equally ridiculous to complain about him starting. The short-sightedness of some people on here is verging on the ridiculous. Does anyone remember the Aviva last year v Bath?? He was fairly destructive that day but as there is someone slightly younger who is in relatively decent form none of that should count??? What is that phrase about class and form?

I'm bemused as to why people are surprised at Bosses selection. This has been a relatively regular selection (excluding MOC years) reddan at home to bring tempo and Boss away for D and physicality.....

Have you watched much of Boss and Healy lately? Because there's absolutely no indication you have from that post. Both haven't been the right side of form for a while now. And that's not just a switch you flick. Healy is building up to it slowly. But it's very, very slowly. And Boss might be ok off the bench for 20 minutes but he hasn't done well as a starter for a good while.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Reddan or Boss lose form we'll complain McGrath doesn't have elite experience.

If?...

Ignoring development, I struggle to see how McGrath simply isn't just better than them now to be honest.

molloyjh

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I presume we're scrapping SOB then ye, still not the same player after lay offs? DC came back from a lay off and struggled for form, I'd say NZ are ragging they didn't get rid of him, now same goes for McCaw. Really costs in the long term sticking by your truly world class players.

SOB was excellent against France so I'm not sure you can say the same thing about him at all. Plus there still isn't anyone better in his position, where as that isn't the case with Healy. Apples and oranges.

tbm

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I presume we're scrapping SOB then ye, still not the same player after lay offs? DC came back from a lay off and struggled for form, I'd say NZ are ragging they didn't get rid of him, now same goes for McCaw. Really costs in the long term sticking by your truly world class players.

SOB has had several destructive performances since he's been back from injury. Most recently against France. DC had to work his way back into starting for NZ, and had to displace players who had been out-performing him at 10. He's played 12 a fair bit recently. Nobody is saying Healy should not be playing, but McGrath has been in better form in the last few months.

Tarf1234

molloyjh wrote: »

SOB was excellent against France so I'm not sure you can say the same thing about him at all. Plus there still isn't anyone better in his position, where as that isn't the case with Healy. Apples and oranges.

I think you've missed my point on SOB. Came back from injury, was great straight away, coaches stuck with him now undropable again. Go out to the market and see who you would get a more money and more interest Healy or McGrath... No club would pay more for McGrath. I would suggest that there would be a significant difference in money as well.

Tarf1234

tbm wrote: »

SOB has had several destructive performances since he's been back from injury. Most recently against France. DC had to work his way back into starting for NZ, and had to displace players who had been out-performing him at 10. He's played 12 a fair bit recently. Nobody is saying Healy should not be playing, but McGrath has been in better form in the last few months.

Yes, as I've said SOB now playing very well.

DC was not the stand out 10 in NZ in S15 this year by a long shot. Picked largely for his permanent class which was what they wanted in important games.

McCaw definitely did not play himself back in on form either. He was never going to be anywhere other than the 7 jersey. Hard to say there was no exceptional alternatives there either. Class will always win out in professional coaches minds for important games

CatFromHue

I'm not sure what your point is on SOB, he's injured that's why he's not playing.

Tarf1234

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is on SOB, he's injured that's why he's not playing.

My point is not about current SOB. He came back from injury and wasn't great. He has now played himself back into form as he is world class. Thus showing why you stand by your world class players. They come back more often then not and what made them world class is still there.

I am using him as a point of reference as to why you stick by your world class players if that isn't clear

Tarf1234

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I think you've missed my point on SOB. Came back from injury, was great straight away, coaches stuck with him now undropable again. Go out to the market and see who you would get a more money and more interest Healy or McGrath... No club would pay more for McGrath. I would suggest that there would be a significant difference in money as well.

Go out and ask any club who they would start this weekend based on recent performances was the example you were looking for and it would most likely be McGrath.

I trust Leo see's more than we do, Healy won't let us down.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I think you've missed my point on SOB. Came back from injury, was great straight away, coaches stuck with him now undropable again. Go out to the market and see who you would get a more money and more interest Healy or McGrath... No club would pay more for McGrath. I would suggest that there would be a significant difference in money as well.

People would probably pay more money for Peter O'Mahony than Dave O'Callaghan, doesn't mean PoM should be playing for Munster.

Tarf1234

Tarf1234 wrote: »

My point is not about current SOB. He came back from injury and wasn't great. He has now played himself back into form as he is world class. Thus showing why you stand by your world class players. They come back more often then not and what made them world class is still there.

I am using him as a point of reference as to why you stick by your world class players if that isn't clear

That's a different argument and still isn't relevant to a must win game this weekend. It's also not the original point you made which is the one my last reply was made too.

Synode

No Ringrose is disappointing. He was our best player when he came on last week. I'd have him instead of Kirchner

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Tarf1234 wrote: »

My point is not about current SOB. He came back from injury and wasn't great. He has now played himself back into form as he is world class. Thus showing why you stand by your world class players. They come back more often then not and what made them world class is still there.

I am using him as a point of reference as to why you stick by your world class players if that isn't clear

You're acting like we're calling for Healy to be kicked out of Leinster entirely. Suggesting he's not up to starting is not the same as not "standing by" a player.

Tarf1234

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a different argument and still isn't relevant to a must win game this weekend. It's also not the original point you made which is the one my last reply was made too.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear in that point. I was implying he is still world class and his form will come back. This may well be the weekend it happens. World class players tend to stand up on big days. You want your best players on the pitch for these days and he is certainly one of our best players

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Synode wrote: »

No Ringrose is disappointing. He was our best player when he came on last week. I'd have him instead of Kirchner

Ringrose has been involved quite a lot this season, maybe they're trying not to burn him out.