Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Tarf1234

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You're acting like we're calling for Healy to be kicked out of Leinster entirely. Suggesting he's not up to starting is not the same as not "standing by" a player.

I was intentionally exaggerating. I thought people would be able to pick up on that. I would say slating a long time servant and world class player is indeed mot 'standing by' a player. Which is what plenty have been doing over the last month or so (not everyone).

Tarf1234

Synode wrote: »

No Ringrose is disappointing. He was our best player when he came on last week. I'd have him instead of Kirchner

Agreed, still young but would like to see him get a run at this level. I really think Kirchner has been a poor bit of business. Doesn't really look keen at all. Don't particularly rate him either if I'm honest

molloyjh

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't think I was clear in that point. I was implying he is still world class and his form will come back. This may well be the weekend it happens. World class players tend to stand up on big days. You want your best players on the pitch for these days and he is certainly one of our best players

There have been a couple of big games since he came back from injury where he hasn't refound his form. What makes this one so different?

The answer is nothing. You're talking about selecting a guy based on what he has the potential to do in an ideal situation as opposed to what he is currently managing in reality. At the moment McGrath is the best performing LH Leinster have available to them. If Healy can find his form again then fantastic, but there's absolutely no indication he will this weekend. You can stand by players without showing them blind faith.

Tarf1234

molloyjh wrote: »

There have been a couple of big games since he came back from injury where he hasn't refound his form. What makes this one so different?

The answer is nothing. You're talking about selecting a guy based on what he has the potential to do in an ideal situation as opposed to what he is currently managing in reality. At the moment McGrath is the best performing LH Leinster have available to them. If Healy can find his form again then fantastic, but there's absolutely no indication he will this weekend. You can stand by players without showing them blind faith.

When is he going to find form then, 20 minutes off the bench or in Pro12??? Hardly blind faith to pick a guy who has done what he has done.

awec

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Why would anyone complain about Healy starting? He is one of only maybe 2 players we could argue is the best player in the world in his position. Second being Sexton, who had a poor game last week. It would be equally ridiculous to complain about him starting. The short-sightedness of some people on here is verging on the ridiculous. Does anyone remember the Aviva last year v Bath?? He was fairly destructive that day but as there is someone slightly younger who is in relatively decent form none of that should count??? What is that phrase about class and form?

I'm bemused as to why people are surprised at Bosses selection. This has been a relatively regular selection (excluding MOC years) reddan at home to bring tempo and Boss away for D and physicality.....

Healy isn't even the best loosehead in Leinster at the moment, never mind the world (don't think he has ever been the best in the world either).

The fact is he has been rubbish post-injury. Which isn't just one or two games, he has had plenty of opportunity.

whatawaster

awec wrote: »

Francois Luow vs Jordi Murphy. Oh dear.

Don't get the Jordi Murphy hate on here.

Yes, he's not in great form, and didn't play well against Argentina, but he's still an excellent back-rower, and only 24. People have very short memories.

vienne86

Synode wrote: »

No Ringrose is disappointing. He was our best player when he came on last week. I'd have him instead of Kirchner

I would too. But this is one of the biggest, or maybe THE biggest game of the season, so I suppose Leo was always going to go for a experience.

Tarf1234

awec wrote: »

Healy isn't even the best loosehead in Leinster at the moment, never mind the world (don't think he has ever been the best in the world either).

The fact is he has been rubbish post-injury. Which isn't just one or two games, he has had plenty of opportunity.

Don't agree with your points but at this stage I'm just repeating myself, so I'll leave it there. No point in wasting anyone's time. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I'm sure none of us will lose any sleep over it! :)

Interested Observer

vienne86 wrote: »

I would too. But this is one of the biggest, or maybe THE biggest game of the season, so I suppose Leo was always going to go for a experience.

This doesn't hold much water imo. What did starting the experienced guys last week do? All Dave Kearney's experience and he still handed Wasps 10 points on a plate. Ringrose should be at least on the bench (I'd be starting him on one of the wings), it's a bad call.

Tarf1234

whatawaster wrote: »

Don't get the Jordi Murphy hate on here.

Yes, he's not in great form, and didn't play well against Argentina, but he's still an excellent back-rower, and only 24. People have very short memories.

Ye, Jordi and to a much greater extent Dippy are getting an unholy amount of grief these days. Jordi was very poor last week but is still a high end player. Dippy's form has been very poor but still think he could add a huge amount if he could discover some form and confidence.

JPNelsforearm

whatawaster wrote: »

Don't get the Jordi Murphy hate on here.

Yes, he's not in great form, and didn't play well against Argentina, but he's still an excellent back-rower, and only 24. People have very short memories.

He's never been in Louw's class, and hasnt reached the levels he played at before his injury on a consistent basis. He's good, but he has many faults and it doesnt help he's not a stereotypical seven, eight or a six, he's just a handy -player, no more.

Tarf1234

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

He's never been in Louw's class, and hasnt reached the levels he played at before his injury on a consistent basis. He's good, but he has many faults and it doesnt help he's not a stereotypical seven, eight or a six, he's just a handy -player, no more.

Agree on him not being in Louw's class. JdVf could hardly be described as in Louw's class either! Also agree on the stereotype point. Doesn't really fully do the job of any of those stereo types relatively similar to Heaslip in that regard. Does a bit of everything. Not a huge amount of ball carrying in that back 5 which is a bit of a worry

Larbre34

That's just not a bench that will pull you through a european game. I know about injuries etc, but there's Ruddock not match fit, expected to play 80 and move into the second row for the last quarter (I assume). If any part of that goes wrong we could be finishing with Heaslip at 5 and a very non-specific backrow combo trying to hold the line.

errlloyd

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

He's never been in Louw's class, and hasnt reached the levels he played at before his injury on a consistent basis. He's good, but he has many faults and it doesnt help he's not a stereotypical seven, eight or a six, he's just a handy -player, no more.

If you told me that Francois Louw had an identical twin who played for Bath, while the real Francois just put himself on ice for South Africa I wouldn't be surprised. He's never impressed me in blue and white, but has been huge in green and gold.

LostArt

whatawaster wrote: »

Don't get the Jordi Murphy hate on here.

Yes, he's not in great form, and didn't play well against Argentina, but he's still an excellent back-rower, and only 24. People have very short memories.

As a 7 I like him, he's quick to the breakdown (mostly) but as a 6 I think he's well behind Ruddock.

Noopti

If we managed to get a losing BP then we would be lucky in my opinion.

Of course the team could suddenly turn it all around and produce a great display to win it. But there is no evidence to suggest this will happen.

If we do bow out of the championship, then I really do hope Leo uses the remainder of the season to really bed in the style of rugby he wants the team to play, get some of the young talent involved throughout the season, make some astute signings where needed and then target a really good season for 16/17.

vienne86

Noopti wrote: »

If we managed to get a losing BP then we would be lucky in my opinion.

Of course the team could suddenly turn it all around and produce a great display to win it. But there is no evidence to suggest this will happen.

If we do bow out of the championship, then I really do hope Leo uses the remainder of the season to really bed in the style of rugby he wants the team to play, get some of the young talent involved throughout the season, make some astute signings where needed and then target a really good season for 16/17.

Hard to know really. I don't think Wasps were any great shakes, but they took their opportunities. For me, a lot depends on Sexton's form, and that was worrying on Sunday.

penybont exile

vienne86 wrote: »

You've nailed it for me here. I am very excited about Ringrose, but I wouldn't start him in this of all matches.

Wales started Tyler Morgan in a WC QF. Played well too.

He's younger than Ringrose. It's the big games where you find out whether a young player has the potential ......

Exclamation Marc

penybont exile wrote: »

Wales started Tyler Morgan in a WC QF. Played well too.

He's younger than Ringrose. It's the big games where you find out whether a young player has the potential ......

Completely agree. Pollard started for SA in the WC SF and he's 21. There's no point in 'protecting' him for years when he could be developed and hit his full potential. He'll never be ready if he never gets a chance.

BALLLLLS

So have a kids party tomorrow at 3:30. Rang the place where it's on and they said they have all sky sports so thought - terrific, can watch the match and fill parenting responsibilities.

BT SHAGGING SPORT.

Really I hate all the BS around the various channels and above is a prime example of why it has become such a bloody joke. If everyone refused to pay for paid sports TV, NO ONE would have to pay for paid sports TV.

Tox56

penybont exile wrote: »

Wales started Tyler Morgan in a WC QF. Played well too.

He's younger than Ringrose. It's the big games where you find out whether a young player has the potential ......

I would generally be on the side of give young players a chance, but although people say stuff like this all the time, this really isnt a direct comparison because of the differences between the systems in Ireland and Wales. Morgan was involved in the Dragons academy much earlier than Ringrose at Leinster, and that is pretty evident in the difference in size. Morgan is, as you say, a fair bit younger, but while Ringrose only played his first game for Leinster a few weeks ago, Morgan played his first game for the Dragons over two years ago.

CatFromHue

penybont exile wrote: »

Wales started Tyler Morgan in a WC QF. Played well too.

He's younger than Ringrose. It's the big games where you find out whether a young player has the potential ......

I didn't think Wales had any other good option, I thought he was picked ahead of Hook who isn't a centre.

I know the point you're getting at just not sure if it applies to Ringrose here as he has some good players ahead of him who won't be going anywhere soon.

vienne86

penybont exile wrote: »

Wales started Tyler Morgan in a WC QF. Played well too.

He's younger than Ringrose. It's the big games where you find out whether a young player has the potential ......

Fair enough, but I still would not start Ringrose in this match because we have better players for tomorrow. I think Ringrose will be a great centre, but Fitz and T'eo would be my first choice centre partnership from what we have available right now. And I am happy with Dave and Ferg on the wings. I would not drop Dave for last week's errors. Yet.

penybont exile

CatFromHue wrote: »

I didn't think Wales had any other good option, I thought he was picked ahead of Hook who isn't a centre.

I know the point you're getting at just not sure if it applies to Ringrose here as he has some good players ahead of him who won't be going anywhere soon.

I guess that's the problem though ..... If he has players in front of him who are going to stay there it is going to be difficult for him to oust them. Before long he'll be 23 and still a good prospect ......

Taulupe Faletau turned 25 last week ...... Jordi Murphy still being touted as a great prospect ...... six months younger than Faletau.

whatawaster

penybont exile wrote: »

I guess that's the problem though ..... If he has players in front of him who are going to stay there it is going to be difficult for him to oust them. Before long he'll be 23 and still a good prospect ......

Taulupe Faletau turned 25 last week ...... Jordi Murphy still being touted as a great prospect ...... six months younger than Faletau.

Falateau is an exceptional player. Murphy is nowhwere near that level, he is merely a good player.

Hagz

I just hope that if we do lose this match, more of an effort is made to build for the future.
Ringrose should be involved in some shape whether its in the XV or on the bench. Luke McGrath needs to be getting more 60+ games. Ross Molony is more than capable of playing at this level.

vienne86

Hagz wrote: »

I just hope that if we do lose this match, more of an effort is made to build for the future.
Ringrose should be involved in some shape whether its in the XV or on the bench. Luke McGrath needs to be getting more 60+ games. Ross Molony is more than capable of playing at this level.

Agree completely. If we lose tomorrow.

flouncer

Hagz wrote: »

I just hope that if we do lose this match, more of an effort is made to build for the future.
Ringrose should be involved in some shape whether its in the XV or on the bench. Luke McGrath needs to be getting more 60+ games. Ross Molony is more than capable of playing at this level.

I would suggest sending him to Connacht but we are flooded with talent at centre.

Hagz

flouncer wrote: »

I would suggest sending him to Connacht but we are flooded with talent at centre.

No thanks. I'd rather hold onto Ringrose than get Henshaw. I'd take Dave McSharry back though. Sure you've no room for him.

errlloyd

flouncer wrote: »

I would suggest sending him to Connacht but we are flooded with talent at centre.

And you're loving the opportunity to post about it, and absolutely fair enough in my books.