Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

flouncer

If there is to be a culling of the older brigade at Leinster this may be a problem. Remember Leo has played with and has close associations and friendships with these guys.

CatFromHue

Deleted User wrote: »

Rumour on reddit that Quinns are pursuing Madigan for next season...!

It'd be a good move for him. If I was his advisor I'd be telling him to take it.

errlloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rumour on reddit that Quinns are pursuing Madigan for next season...!

I think COS rates him

JPNelsforearm

He deserves a shot at a full time gig, sitting waiting for Sexton to break helps no one but our squad depth.

The Rape of Lucretia

errlloyd wrote: »

I think COS rates him

I guess most coaches do. He has to be a target for anybody thinking they can convince him that a life starting at 10 will be better than as a bit part player behind Jonno and assorted 12s and 15s. Probably not a hard sell really, particularly if the Golden Age is over for Leinster Rugby (likely).

Exclamation Marc

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

He deserves a shot at a full time gig, sitting waiting for Sexton to break helps no one but our squad depth.

All that after two years of waiting for Gopperth to break...

flouncer

flouncer wrote: »

If there is to be a culling of the older brigade at Leinster this may be a problem. Remember Leo has played with and has close associations and friendships with these guys.

Couple of players at retirement but there isn't going to be a culling of any description.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

particularly if the Golden Age is over for Leinster Rugby (likely).

Try not to hide your delight...

Transition period for sure, but plenty of quality in the squad and a brilliant academy, Leinster won't be waiting long for moré silverware.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Couple of players at retirement but there isn't going to be a culling of any description.

Try not to hide your delight...

Transition period for sure, but plenty of quality in the squad and a brilliant academy, Leinster won't be waiting long for moré silverware.

Jeepers, no delight here if that really is the case. Leinster fan to the core (though I do fear for us - how long is Munster 'in transition from their glory years, and when does in transition become a delusion to avoid facing a new status quo ? But thats another topic).

Its an easy prospect for a suiter to peddle to him is all I meant. Thorners had an IT article on that very point earlier this week.

Hagz

It would be a terrible move for him. Botica is a better fly-half and I wouldn't be surprised if he struggled to get ahead of Tim Swiel.

He'd be taking himself out of the equation re Ireland and playing second fiddle somewhere else.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

Well aren't you wonderful. Such foresight we've simply never seen before. Well except for all those other posts about the young lads that should have been involved, a selection of which is below. But sure don't let that stop you from patting yourself on the back.

None of them were calling for the players I was to be starting first team in European game. The older players should be pushed to the side unless they massively up their game. There's a real ego developing among certain older players from what I've heard. The young lads will be trying twice as hard, time for a culling

CatFromHue

Finances aside I think he should start thinking about his club ahead of Ireland.

The only unused sub yesterday was Madigan and he played the week before at 15. If Nacewa had been fit there's a good chance he'd have had no gametime in the ERCC so far.

Todd Toddington III

Genuine interest in who these players are, care to name them

Edit. Time for a Leo Culling (sorry, couldn't help it)

awec

I can't see Madigan going (though he should). Irish rugby is very parochial, guys would prefer to be second or third choice at their own province than play every week elsewhere (there are exceptions).

They have a relatively cosy number here that they're probably not fussed on giving up.

WarZ

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Genuine interest in who these players are, care to name them

Edit. Time for a Leo Culling (sorry, couldn't help it)

I'm not going to name the names that's not on to be honest

case885

If Madigan wants regular game time at 10 and stay in contention for Ireland surely Connacht is an option.

WarZ

awec wrote: »

They have a relatively cosy number here that they're probably not fussed on giving up.

It's very cosy for them most definitely. A lot of things are overlooked and the player power is extraordinary. They've the media, fans and most importantly those in charge with running Leinster eating out of their hand despite sub par efforts in training and on the pitch. Despite this there's some young really eager and enthusiastic players ready to give their all to the jersey.

Interesting to see the amount of players out on the tear after that defeat, you'd swear some of them couldn't give a flying f....

former total

WarZ wrote: »

I'm not going to name the names that's not on to be honest

Then why say anything at all?

If you're seven years old, I'll give you a pass, otherwise the "I know something you don't know, na na na" line is just tragic.

WarZ

former total wrote: »

Then why say anything at all?

If you're seven years old, I'll give you a pass, otherwise the "I know something you don't know, na na na" line is just tragic.

I'm giving people an idea of why things are happening without individually naming people I've heard of in confidence

awec

WarZ wrote: »

I'm giving people an idea of why things are happening without individually naming people I've heard of in confidence

Please don't do that.

If you're not in a position to give us details (for whatever reason) then say nothing at all. Otherwise we have no way to determine the veracity of your posts and you could find yourself being accused of trolling.

Todd Toddington III

Time for vdf to be given a decent run in big games, looks like a promising player. McGrath is definitely no. 1 LH, hopefully will light a fire under healys arse. Moore seems to have gone backwards at TH but I think the problem in the scrums is greater than one position. Would like to see him and furlong have a proper battle for the spot. Dev looks knackered and could do with a rest. Would like to see conan start a few more games this season in some of the bigger games. McGrath and sexton should be given a good run. Teo and luke could be very good with ringrose and Reid also in the mix. Back three is a bit meh outside of isa, luke and ringrose a centre. We lack serious gas here, whos coming through? A good year if Leo develops players and a game plan to suit the players he's got. We're not the team we once were but neither are we as bad as some make out. Here's to a strong finish

CatFromHue

A criticism of a Luke and Te'o partnership is that they're both very good off loaders of the ball but I'm not sure how good passers of the ball they are.

I noticed a couple of occasions against Bath when a pass was on but both times they changed and crashed it up themselves instead.

Also if Luke is to now be a strong contender at 12 I don't want to see him back out on the wing anymore.

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

It's very cosy for them most definitely. A lot of things are overlooked and the player power is extraordinary. They've the media, fans and most importantly those in charge with running Leinster eating out of their hand despite sub par efforts in training and on the pitch. Despite this there's some young really eager and enthusiastic players ready to give their all to the jersey.

Interesting to see the amount of players out on the tear after that defeat, you'd swear some of them couldn't give a flying f....

Yeah I know, they should be locked up every last one of them. It's not like they'll be hard to catch given how slow they all are.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah I know, they should be locked up every last one of them. It's not like they'll be hard to catch given how slow they all are.

If I was the players after their ridiculously sub par performances these last two weeks I wouldn't be out on the piss for the second week in a row before another big game next week. It appears only the like of Sexton, Nacewa, Heaslip and the younger lads really give that much f these days.

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

I can't see Madigan going (though he should). Irish rugby is very parochial, guys would prefer to be second or third choice at their own province than play every week elsewhere (there are exceptions).

They have a relatively cosy number here that they're probably not fussed on giving up.

I'm not sure if that applies to Madigan as he does actually get alot of game time, just not always at 10. He has 131 caps which is about 5th or 6th highest in the whole squad and by the end of the season will be close to 100 starts.

He's very much in an odd situation.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure if that applies to Madigan as he does actually get alot of game time, just not always at 10. He has 131 caps which is about 5th or 6th highest in the whole squad and by the end of the season will be close to 100 starts.

He's very much in an odd situation.

He's in an odd position because he can cover three positions (to a wildly varying standard) but is arguably not first choice in any of them for Leinster.

Exclamation Marc

If Madigan had any sense he'd leave Leinster. I'd hate to see him go but he's the perennial 'second choice' as long as he stays at Leinster and if he ever wants to play in his preferred position for Ireland he needs to carve out a career as a starting 10.

He'll never dislodge Sexton and he'll always been in the Ireland squad so he won't even get time to play 10 for Leinster during international games.

I guess it might come down to money v playing time the next time his contract renewal rolls around.

RichieRich89

CatFromHue wrote: »

A criticism of a Luke and Te'o partnership is that they're both very good off loaders of the ball but I'm not sure how good passers of the ball they are.

I noticed a couple of occasions against Bath when a pass was on but both times they changed and crashed it up themselves instead.

Also if Luke is to now be a strong contender at 12 I don't want to see him back out on the wing anymore.

I agree. Conventional wisdom would be that if you're going to play a big power-runner like Te'o at 13 who maybe isn't the best passer then you need a ball-playing 12, such as Reid or Madigan, to bring him into play to best effect - like what the Aussies do with Giteau and Kuridrani.

Alternatively teams can have the truck-it-up guy at inside centre, with an evasive runner who's a deft passer at 13 - like the great NZ Nonu, Smith partnership.

Against Bath Leinster were effectively playing a 12 Nonu, 13 Kuridrani style partnership (although Nonu has really worked on his distribution so maybe Fitzgerald wouldn't be as good at passing as him) and we maybe lacked a stellar passing game in the centre as a result.

Te'o at 13 is a relic of MOC's Aussie ideology being implemented. My own opinion would be that the coaches should start thinking of Te'o and Fitz as 12s, and have Ringrose as our primary 13. Not sure where that would leave Reid though...

Hagz

He's as close to playing in his preferred position for Ireland as he'll ever be in my opinion. He doesn't have the makings of a top class 10. If he did he'd have shown it by now. If he does move it won't make any sense from the perspective of international hopes. He'll automatically rule himself out whilst he's abroad, and whatever he will hope to achieve abroad will take longer than one season. So from an Irish perspective the ideal scenario is to have him come back at 29 years of age a far better out-half. But even then, he won't get ahead of Sexton and to what province would he return?

A move abroad in my eyes would be purely about game-time at club level or money, with the latter making more sense. He's not guaranteed to find himself a starting role at a club like Harlequins or any competitive premiership/top 14 club, so to go to one of them would be about money. He could get himself a lot of game-time at a lower tiered side like London Irish but is the extra game-time worth sacrificing any international involvement, home comforts and the chance of being a part of a successful side?

A move would have made more sense a couple of years ago, but now it only makes sense from a financial end in my opinion. And you can't fault him from that perspective.

blackdog1

Hagz wrote: »

ESPN says he didn't miss a single tackle. Interesting.

I watch the match unlike the espn person who does the stats.

Hagz

blackdog1 wrote: »

I watch the match unlike the espn person who does the stats.

The ESPN stats are actually reliable enough despite what some people would have you believe on here. Having played a lot of fantasy rugby, it's amazing how often the ESPN person comes out with the same stats the fantasy sites do despite not watching the game....