Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

S12b

Any word on Healy and O'Brien.....injured or dropped?

freyners

molloyjh wrote:

But I'm not talking about offloading. Look at Fitzgerald against Bath there last week when he gave that pass to Tracy in the build up to the VDF try. It was very reminiscent of the pass to Dave Kearney against Canada. Drawing his man and timing & delivering the pass really well. Compare that then to the England game where Henshaw made the break at the end and made a total balls of the pass. The timing and delivery were all wrong. I've seen that kind of thing a number of times from him now. It's not a huge deal. He's a young lad and that will come in time, but it is (IMO anyway) a bit of an issue at the moment.

You said distribution so sorry I got the wrong end of what you meant. Ive seen him float some beauties as well as a few howlers. But to say it's the weak point of his game makes it to be more of an issue than it is

former total

Clegg wrote: »

Both teams look fairly strong. Are Kearney or Murphy injured or just dropped/rotated?5 Ringrose in the 23 is encouraging. Shows Cullen wants to give him minutes somewhere.

Rested I'd say.

Our next nine weekends are:
Ulster (h)
Glasgow (a)
Toulon (a)
Toulon (h)
Munster (a)
Connacht (h)
Ospreys (a)
Bath (h)
Wasps (a)

That is going to require some serious squad management. If you offered me five wins from those nine matches, I'd take it.

Hagz

Fair play Leo. Can't complain about that selection. Healy rested, Molony involved, VdF start, Ringrose involved and the messiah starting.

irishbucsfan

Have a bloody christmas party during the game. Yes, in November.

Will have to avoid boards and watch it on a delay.

KH25

S12b wrote: »

Any word on Healy and O'Brien.....injured or dropped?

I assume OBrien hasn't been cleared to play after the head injury. Last night he said he didn't know if he'd be allowed play.

vienne86

Pleased with that team - delighted about Van der Flier and Luke McGrath, and good to see Moloney and Ringrose involved too. Strong Ulster team. Should be good.

molloyjh

freyners wrote: »

You said distribution so sorry I got the wrong end of what you meant. Ive seen him float some beauties as well as a few howlers. But to say it's the weak point of his game makes it to be more of an issue than it is

The howlers are an issue for me, and there have been a few. But as I said he's still young enough and I can easily see him fixing that. I'm not trying to knock the guy or anything because he's a superb talent, but the fact that there have been a number of noticeable howlers means that it is an issue. How big an issue I suppose is the debatable point.

b.gud

molloyjh wrote: »

The howlers are an issue for me, and there have been a few. But as I said he's still young enough and I can easily see him fixing that. I'm not trying to knock the guy or anything because he's a superb talent, but the fact that there have been a number of noticeable howlers means that it is an issue. How big an issue I suppose is the debatable point.

Any examples?

molloyjh

b.gud wrote: »

Any examples?

Well I pointed out the England game for one. There was another one in the RWC itself against France I think where again he held the ball too long and got a really terrible pass away that killed the move. I was at the open session in the RDS just before the RWC as well and it was something I noticed even there as well. I know I've seen it in a couple of Connacht games too, but I'm never going to remember those I'm afraid.

CatFromHue

Hmmmm third different 12 in 3 weeks and Fitzgerald back on the wing

Interested Observer

CatFromHue wrote: »

Hmmmm third different 12 in 3 weeks and Fitzgerald back on the wing

No harm really. Reid had to be dropped really, and Fitz wasn't great there either. We're not in great shape in that position.

Hagz

I think Madigan is the best option at 12 anyway. Strong in contact and good distribution. Given that Te'o is the muscle in our back-line I think it might actually compliment things to have another playmaker at inside centre. He acquitted himself well there when Gopperth was around.

Plus it's nice to have him on the pitch. Irrespective of playing ability he's a strong character who communicates well. I think we'll see some sharp back-play. Just need the pack to turn things around.

Utah_Saint

Hagz wrote: »

I think Madigan is the best option at 12 anyway. Strong in contact and good distribution. Given that Te'o is the muscle in our back-line I think it might actually compliment things to have another playmaker at inside centre. He acquitted himself well there when Gopperth was around.

Plus it's nice to have him on the pitch. Irrespective of playing ability he's a strong character who communicates well. I think we'll see some sharp back-play. Just need the pack to turn things around.

Trust me. The Ulster pack isn't gonna give you anything to worry about...

vienne86

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Trust me. The Ulster pack isn't gonna give you anything to worry about...

You reckon? I hope the Leinster scrum is better than last week.

Hagz

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Trust me. The Ulster pack isn't gonna give you anything to worry about...

Yeah, just had a look at it there. Pretty confident of a Leinster win now.

lesterfreeman

Hagz wrote: »

Yeah, just had a look at it there. Pretty confident of a Leinster win now.

the scrum better show up though.

RichieRich89

.ak wrote: »

There's one thing trusting people but at the end of the day we're not a development side.

Reid has come along bounds but his defending has been quite poor. Fitzgerald's best position is 11. Ringrose maybe the messiah but he'll get blown out of the water by bigger centres. O'shea is an out n out 13 but seems to get the yips whenever he lines out for the seniors. We'll have to see with Farrell and Daly but it's far too early to assume they'll make jump up.

Relying on home grown talent for the sake of it is silly IMO.

Of course we're a development side. We have to be. We're not Toulon

Utah_Saint

vienne86 wrote: »

You reckon? I hope the Leinster scrum is better than last week.

Herbst hasn't been great this year and I don't think hendo is a lock...yet. McCall is an unknown, so it could go either way for him. Although don't fancy him against furlong!

.ak

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Of course we're a development side. We have to be. We're not Toulon

We're not a development side either. We are aiming for silverware.

A development side implies a team that's just set up for development purposes.

Exclamation Marc

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Of course we're a development side. We have to be. We're not Toulon

That is utter nonsense. Despite the fact that we're going through a not so successful period we are certainly not a feeder club nor are we there to make up the numbers.

Comparing us to Toulon is a silly comparison. That would be the equivalent of saying Manchester United are a development club because look at Bayern Munich. We'll certainly never have the heft of Toulon but to claim that we're development is way off track.

CatFromHue

We're a development side in that we develop 75% of our players.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

We're a development side in that we develop 75% of our players.

Ah that's not what a development side is! By that metric any side who try to produce their own players are a development side.

Connacht were a development side, as they were in theory developing players for the benefit of the other provinces. Don't think you can really say that when you're developing players for your own side.

freyners

That's fair enough imo. His distribution at centre is fine. Offloading is a speciality but his passing is good It's scoring passes (which you can argue is the most important) that can be suspect but can lethal like vs toulouse for carr or scarlets for swift

.ak

I'd have absolutely no concern about the distribution of a henshaw-teo midfield. They're two massively skilled players and have great passing skills.

lesterfreeman

Teo doesn't have great passing skills, he rarely passes.

lesterfreeman

Leinster must develop their own players, so in a sense they are a development province for the national team.

Have really struggled to develop homegrown players at scrumhalf, lock, centre and hooker.

Hopefully McGrath, Molony, Ringrose and Tracy can step up at those positions, still need a 12 to replace Darcy and another scrumhalf to replace Boss and probably another lock.

Felexicon

molloyjh wrote:

Well I pointed out the England game for one. There was another one in the RWC itself against France I think where again he held the ball too long and got a really terrible pass away that killed the move. I was at the open session in the RDS just before the RWC as well and it was something I noticed even there as well. I know I've seen it in a couple of Connacht games too, but I'm never going to remember those I'm afraid.

Ah now here. You're calling him a poor passers based on 1 definite example you have? Get a grip mate.

lesterfreeman

Felexicon wrote: »

Ah now here. You're calling him a poor passers based on 1 definite example you have? Get a grip mate.

he has pointed out more than one, Henshaw is hardly an elite passer and it's certainly an area he can improve.

flouncer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah that's not what a development side is! By that metric any side who try to produce their own players are a development side.

Connacht were a development side, as they were in theory developing players for the benefit of the other provinces. Don't think you can really say that when you're developing players for your own side.

its a really interesting argument. what is a development side and what is a feeder side. as I see it everybody develops their own players so every province is a development side. so then comes the question is if connacht is a feeder side.

so now you have to define a feeder side. so obviously its a side to provide players to other provinces. but on top of that it is a team where players are allowed to take up contracts to develop their skills. confused yet?

so lets take ulster. how many players have connacht provided ulster? now my memory aint great but I cant even suggest one. Then we have munster, well there are a few and leinster also there are a few. but then connacht have received similar players from said provinces.

so as such connacht aint a feeder club, but is a development squad (as are all provinces). Its just pat lam has bought in well and now connacht are a competitive club.

so i dont get the argument of being a development club (all the provinces are) nor do i accept we are a feeder club (history would say we have received as many as we have supplied.

so connacht is simply a team. in the past not a great team, recently a very good team. if there is a player like robbie who wants to play european cup rugby (in the past) he moved to a european cup team (simple as that). now maybe connacht are a better team. so maybe he stays.

i'm not sure but i suggest that connacht has always been treated fairly by the irfu and it is only since connacht has progressed that the question has arisen of development/feeder or simply a club that stands by itself. And that question makes no sense as players move on as they wish