Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

total former

Tox56 wrote: »

Reddan will be 35 next season. There will come a point where him "coming good" again just isn't realistic or likely. I dont know if we're there yet but even if he does start to play better Im not sure exactly how "good" his best level will be, hes got a lot of miles on the clock and his style relies a lot on speed

Yeah definitely, but as I said above I think his erratic form this season is linked to the number of niggly injuries he's picked up.

Now, getting older obviously means niggly injuries are more likely, but I think if he can get a decent run of games then he still has a lot to offer. God love him he was awful against Bath, but then his sub appearance against Wales last month would give you great cause for optimism.

sydthebeat

Not signing a 'starting' 9 for next season will be a disaster.

It doesnt matter what level boss and reddan pick themselves up to, they cannot turn the clock back 7-8 years. Both at this stage should only be final 15 mins type players.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

BOD and denis hickey to be on off the ball this evening discussing the up and coming semi final and whether or not leinster are in decline

Short enough segment!

Kockett isn't actually a decent option for Leinster as he is near/in French squad. We pretty much only ever have NIQs that are available when our internationals are away. There's a reason for this!

I'd love Sexton to convince Machenaud to come with though. Perhaps have him punch PSA or something so as to get himself an international banishment?

Tox56

thomond2006 wrote: »

I fear it will be exactly how Connacht fans regret how they didn't sign a 10 last summer.

If we didn't have Sexton it would be an absolute disaster but with him there you can carry a 9 more. With Sexton and the current squad we can definitely top/win the league, in Europe its harder to know

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Kockett isn't actually a decent option for Leinster as he is near/in French squad. We pretty much only ever have NIQs that are available when our internationals are away. There's a reason for this!

I'd love Sexton to convince Machenaud to come with though. Perhaps have him punch PSA or something so as to get himself an international banishment?

Morgan Parra might be up for that.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

Morgan Parra might be up for that.

Morgan Parra must be totally pissed off with PSA, and would have some justification in belting him one all right.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kockett isn't actually a decent option for Leinster as he is near/in French squad. We pretty much only ever have NIQs that are available when our internationals are away. There's a reason for this!

I'd love Sexton to convince Machenaud to come with though. Perhaps have him punch PSA or something so as to get himself an international banishment?

It makes more sense though when you're signing the guy to be a starting player.

If you had Kockott as a starter and then Reddan/McGrath behind him then you can allow for Kockott to be off with France during their international periods, you'll still get value out of that.

If its someone who is there as a squad player there's basically no value in it.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Kockett isn't actually a decent option for Leinster as he is near/in French squad. We pretty much only ever have NIQs that are available when our internationals are away. There's a reason for this!

I'd love Sexton to convince Machenaud to come with though. Perhaps have him punch PSA or something so as to get himself an international banishment?

He wouldn't miss any important matches though, just the shadow matches during international periods.

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

I'm not sure what the big deal is over scrum-half. Our perceived need to sign one was based on the assumption that either Reddan or Boss (or both) would retire, but that's no longer the case. For the four or five matches that will happen during the RWC, McGrath and McCarthy will cover us just fine. Unless someone top-drawer was available, it would be pretty pointless and it would be an awful slap in the chops for McGrath.

What Leinster desperately need is leadership and creativity in the backline; even if Nacewa has lost a few yards of pace (and I'm sure he has), his personality and brain will still be intact. If it's a one-year contract on a sort of trial basis, then I'm very much in favour of it.

Our percieved need to sign one is based on the very poor quality of play we've received from our half backs all season.

Recently that has improved, maybe it will also be improved further by the arrival of a better 10. But their performances were very poor in the early stages of the season and I'm definitely concerned that they'll be a year older next year.

Luke McGrath will hopefully push himself forward during the first few months however.

.ak

My fears is Luke McGrath will just turn into another Ian Madigan. Overhyped and whilst a fantastic all-round rugby players they lack the basics of their favoured positions.

awec

.ak wrote: »

My fears is Luke McGrath will just turn into another Ian Madigan. Overhyped and whilst a fantastic all-round rugby players they lack the basics of their favoured positions.

He's 22 now, so I'd imagine he should be seriously competing with Boss and Reddan next season.

thebaz

.ak wrote: »

My fears is Luke McGrath will just turn into another Ian Madigan. Overhyped and whilst a fantastic all-round rugby players they lack the basics of their favoured positions.

bit unfair on Madigan, in fact very - he has been class in anything he has been asked to do - not his fault he gets selected out of position. - McGrath on the other hand , has looked lost at 9 , expeccially his pass - which is more than crucial.

.ak

Yep he has time on his side. I just remember saying that about Madigan all the time and he's in his late 26 now and still no closer to mastering the basics of the outhalf.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

My fears is Luke McGrath will just turn into another Ian Madigan. Overhyped and whilst a fantastic all-round rugby players they lack the basics of their favoured positions.

The reason I have always been more optimistic for McGrath is that he has shown the ability to lead and manage teams, which is something Madigan has almost never done.

.ak

thebaz wrote: »

bit unfair on Madigan, in fact very - he has been class in anything he has been asked to do - not his fault he gets selected out of position. - McGrath on the other hand , has looked lost at 9 , expeccially his pass - which is more than crucial.

Don't get me wrong, I think Madigan is a fantastic rugby player and he's pretty much made to play 22, and I really hope he becomes the next Giteau at 12, but he's gone backwards at 10 in the past few years imo. Once teams nullified his inside step break he finds it very hard to deal with teams. He spent too much of his youth looking to win games himself when he should've been learning the basics. That's the problem with playing 10 behind such a dominant pack for years, he never learned to control a game on the back foot and make the right decisions.

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

The reason I have always been more optimistic for McGrath is that he has shown the ability to lead and manage teams, which is something Madigan has almost never done.

Yep, he was fantastic for the u20s. That'll stick to him, he's a natural leader and a fantastic player. If his decision making and passing can improve he'll be world class.

I just don't want to have to rely on that, it could be a gamble. I'd rather we hired a scrumhalf that can help out there.

Larbre34

No TG4 or Sky coverage of the Dragons game I see.

This new telly deal is working out great. Sure who'd want to watch a scramble for a play off place in a competitive league?

.ak

15. Zane Kirchner
14. Dave Kearney
13. Ben Te'o
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Darragh Fanning
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Eoin Reddan
1. Jack McGrath
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Martin Moore
4. Ben Marshall
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Dominic Ryan
7. Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8. Jack Conan

16. Aaron Dundon
17. Michael Bent
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ross Molony
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Luke McGrath
22. Noel Reid
23. Luke Fitzgerald

Hmm, don't agree with cotton-wooling the team before our biggest game. It's all knock out from here on in, we should be sending our strongest XV.

thomond2006

Larbre34 wrote: »

No TG4 or Sky coverage of the Dragons game I see.

This new telly deal is working out great. Sure who'd want to watch a scramble for a play off place in a competitive league?

S4C?

.ak

I can actually see us losing this game because the form of our starting backrow is muck.

awec

.ak wrote: »

15. Zane Kirchner
14. Dave Kearney
13. Ben Te'o
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Darragh Fanning
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Eoin Reddan
1. Jack McGrath
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Martin Moore
4. Ben Marshall
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Dominic Ryan
7. Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8. Jack Conan

16. Aaron Dundon
17. Michael Bent
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ross Molony
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Luke McGrath
22. Noel Reid
23. Luke Fitzgerald

Hmm, don't agree with cotton-wooling the team before our biggest game. It's all knock out from here on in, we should be sending our strongest XV.

Are Leinster giving up on the league?

thebaz

.ak wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I think Madigan is a fantastic rugby player and he's pretty much made to play 22, and I really hope he becomes the next Giteau at 12, but he's gone backwards at 10 in the past few years imo. Once teams nullified his inside step break he finds it very hard to deal with teams. He spent too much of his youth looking to win games himself when he should've been learning the basics. That's the problem with playing 10 behind such a dominant pack for years, he never learned to control a game on the back foot and make the right decisions.

just to add - what I really admire Madigan for is his ability to come on as a sub in big game , taking over from the number 1 (Johnny) - and been pretty seamless - it takes serious bottle to do that , when there would be a tendency for Fear and over do it

irishbucsfan

Starting Ben Marshall is really interesting, maybe he's still on the bubble?

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

Yep, he was fantastic for the u20s. That'll stick to him, he's a natural leader and a fantastic player. If his decision making and passing can improve he'll be world class.

I just don't want to have to rely on that, it could be a gamble. I'd rather we hired a scrumhalf that can help out there.

I dont think his decision making is a problem, in fact as young halfbacks go his is good, its the consistency of his pass. Which although Ive never thought is as bad as people say does need to be improved.

He needs games, which he will almost certainly get during the RWC. 5 pro starts just isnt enough to be comfortable at that level in a position where experience is as important as 9. That's compared to Madigan's 79 Leinster starts (and more for Ireland). If McGrath is struggling to manage games at 20 starts never mind 79 it would be a problem

thomond2006

After the struggle last week you needed to put out the strongest side possible.

Then again Eddie did that in 2007 and then...

MattD

So people have kind of said that Te'o could be technically a Project Player if he is declared as such, which would allow Leinster to just get another straight international to add to our 3 (Douglas, Kirchner and Nacewa) to make 4+1.

But what would happen if Te'o just decided to declare for England or Samoa tomorrow/during the summer? And even go to the World Cup? No longer a project player, and suddenly we have 5 NIEs? Or is Te'o just another NIE effectively and we have to look at only potential project players if we want to sign any non-Irish for next season?

Sangre

That 4-8 does not inspire any confidence at the moment.

Pudsy33

Presumably he's a project player until he physically lines out for someone else?

.ak

thebaz wrote: »

just to add - what I really admire Madigan for is his ability to come on as a sub in big game , taking over from the number 1 (Johnny) - and been pretty seamless - it takes serious bottle to do that , when there would be a tendency for Fear and over do it

Yes I'd agree with that. Although I thought he allowed England back into the game when he came on.