Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Journeyman_1

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I'd say we've no chance of getting TJP...he's too close to the AB setup.

Yeah I was talking about Hougaard earlier in the year but he went off to Japan - it appears he snubbed some pretty generous offers from English clubs so we probably wouldn't have the bank to get him. In any case he's with SA 7s now

Ya, it was wishful thinking re: TJP.

I hadn't heard that about Hougaard, that's a shame as that could have been a runner.

Faf de Klerk was the other guys name. he looked like a real live-wire from the little I saw of him last season but he would likely be in high demand in a position that is a little lacking worldwide right now, meaning that if a move is on the table then he would be well sought after.

CatFromHue

Is Hougaard good enough?

He's not a signing I would be over the moon with.

The Pheasant2

He's not brilliant but I'd bite your hand off for him at this point. There's not really a lot of quality 9s on the market now

flouncer

cooney should be back to you this summer. excellent player

Snegg

Abrie Griesel, former South African u20 SH joined Young Munster this season.
Has Super Rugby and Currie Cup experience according to his wikipedia page.
Can't find anything to say that he is in any way involved in the Munster setup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrie_Griesel

Article of AIL match last weekend in which he was involved:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/ulsterbankleagueandcup/36348.php

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

Is Hougaard good enough?

He's not a signing I would be over the moon with.

I agree I wouldn't be ecstatic about that either for the money he'd probably cost. I really want Cooney back, if he gets gametime he can be a really decent player, and considering he's a Leinster man he might be interested in more than just a pay check, unlike some of our SH signings

vienne86

I'd love to see Cooney back - I'm really concerned about Reddan's form, and he ain't young.

We need to nail down Mike McCarthy too - his contract is up at the end of the season, and while I know he isn't young, he's playing great and is the sort of lock we need.

former total

Nigel Owens to ref Toulon v Leinster, Wayne Barnes the return leg.

Can't ask for better refs than that really.

vienne86

former total wrote: »

Nigel Owens to ref Toulon v Leinster, Wayne Barnes the return leg.

Can't ask for better refs than that really.

Jackpot! Delighted with that!

errlloyd

I wonder could we tempt Fotoahli'i (I've never known how to spell his name). He's still only sporadically first choice. Northampton may want to free up some salary cap.

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

Nigel Owens to ref Toulon v Leinster, Wayne Barnes the return leg.

Can't ask for better refs than that really.

Yeah that's pretty good news. Happy enough with that. That game in Toulon is going to be huge for us. If we can manage to click and sneak a win (and really I don't think we are as far off as it seems) it would open up the pool nicely. For all this talk about how important the league is this season I'm not all that bothered about the game on Saturday, but I'm already getting nervous about Toulon fixture.

scott1974

former total wrote: »

Nigel Owens to ref Toulon v Leinster, Wayne Barnes the return leg.

Can't ask for better refs than that really.

The problem I have with Barnes is that he let Armitage away with murder at the breakdown when he came on in QF last year... and the previous year.
Apparently Lacey was pinging him against Wasps..
I wonder what Owens take on it will be...

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah that's pretty good news. Happy enough with that. That game in Toulon is going to be huge for us. If we can manage to click and sneak a win (and really I don't think we are as far off as it seems) it would open up the pool nicely. For all this talk about how important the league is this season I'm not all that bothered about the game on Saturday, but I'm already getting nervous about Toulon fixture.

I mostly want us to win in Toulon as I'm going to the return game with some foreign friends and want it to be relevant.

I can't see us getting out of the pool in the end though.

stephen_n

Hagz wrote: »

Well there's been nothing official about Reddan and Boss hanging up their boots at the end of this season. Recent comments from Reddan would even suggest he is keen to keep playing. Reddan is playing poorly now but the word form exists for a reason.

Reid, Luke and Madigan are capable of playing 12 but they're not great options. When you consider all the noise around Te'o leaving, the midfield looks vulnerable. A centre needs to be signed at some stage and it might as well be sooner rather than later. There's nothing coming through the academy with Brewer, Daly and Crosbie looking destined for 'A' careers.

Would I rather Luke/Madigan/Reid starting at 12 with a shiny new scrum-half? Or would I rather Reddan/McGrath starting at 9 with a shiny new centre?
I'd rather the latter personally.

I fully expect Leinster to sign in both positions anyway so it doesn't really matter.

Reddan hasn't played well for Leinster in 2015 though, you can say form is temporary but how long does that hold true? He has only showed decent form in the last 12 months when playing in green. Reddan and Boss are 35 now, if we had decent scrumhalves coming through, they wouldn't be on the books. Can we get away with a scrumhalf playing like a drain, the difference in how we played last week before and after McGrath's injury was immeasurable. We can blame Sexton and after him Madigan or we can look at the genuine problem. Boss isn't playing much better. We desperately need a scrumhalf who can deliver quality ball to our backs. It's easier to get around a centre not playing well, than having your backline castrated with poor ball.

Rumours about T'eo leaving and Henshaw coming, are just rumours though, if we believe one, why not believe the other, which will cancel out the centre problem. what worries me most is there aren't any rumours linking us to scrumhalves, as far as NIQ goes, thet should be our priority position.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

I mostly want us to win in Toulon as I'm going to the return game with some foreign friends and want it to be relevant.

I can't see us getting out of the pool in the end though.

If we win in Toulon and assuming Wasps win at home to Bath with no TBPs and both losers getting LBPs:

Team|Pl|Pts
Wasps|3|13
Bath|2|5
Leinster|3|5
Toulon|2|1

Then assume we win in the return leg and Bath beat Wasps at home. Again no TBPs and losers get LBPs:

Team|Pl|Pts
Wasps|4|14
Bath|3|9
Leinster|4|9
Toulon|3|2

Toulon then have Bath at home and will need to win that to stand any chance of qualifying themselves. Again assume no TBP and a LBP for Bath:

Team|Pl|Pts
Wasps|4|14
Bath|4|10
Leinster|4|9
Toulon|4|6

Toulon then have Wasps at home and Bath away. And we have Wasps away and Bath at home. If both ourselves and Toulon win our last 2 rounds (again no TBPs and LBPs for the losers):

Team|Pl|Pts
Leinster|6|17
Wasps|6|16
Toulon|6|14
Bath|6|12

It will require us to win the rest of our games which is a huge ask, but it is still possible that we could top the group. If we were to win in Toulon it is game on.

ktulu123

Balls deep in Toulon then :P I would love the above to happen but it's a very slim possibility. Gotta believe we can do it in Toulon though!

Top the group? Are yee mad?

JP Doyle would use the C word on ya.

CatFromHue

molloyjh wrote: »

If we were to win in Toulon it is game on.

Very much so.

Our games against them the last 2 seasons have been close enough affairs too so plenty to be optimistic about.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

Top the group? Are yee mad?

JP Doyle would use the C word on ya.

I'm just illustrating how open the pool could still be. After all the great thing about being in such a tough pool is that not only will teams take points off us, but they'll take points off each other as well. Now obviously getting out of the pool is still a bit of a long shot, but win next week in Toulon and our chances increase. Win again at home and our chances jump a good bit more.

Of course if we lose in Toulon it is all over. I don't think there would even be a mathematical possibility left at that stage.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Very much so.

Our games against them the last 2 seasons have been close enough affairs too so plenty to be optimistic about.

I thought they were very poor against Wasps, but then that result against Clermont in SMM was pretty huge. I didn't see the game but they must have been at least fairly good to do that to Clermont. And that would worry me.

Journeyman_1

Deleted User wrote: »

Top the group? Are yee mad?

JP Doyle would use the C word on ya.

Topping the group is probably our only way of qualifying tbh.

Nice to see someone is finally getting on board with my optimism!

CatFromHue

The best runner up teams that made the QF's last year where on 17, 18, and 19 points.

Getting even a draw in Toulon could be enough if we win our last 3 games and pick up a few BPs.

Losing in Toulon though and I think that'll be us then.

Clegg

Very late the the scrumhalf discussion, but I think it's time we looking to get away from Boss and Reddan. They're both 35 and their ability is only going one way. Reddan's game was all about speed to the ruck and getting the ball out as quickly as possible. I think it's noticeable that he struggles to keep the tempo up at times. His form has been ropey for quite a while now too. We have a similar type of player in McGrath who is much younger and a bigger threat around the fringes. I think it's time to move ahead with him as our starting number 9. Boss hasn't been the worst over the last year either. In all truth he's been performing just as well, if not better than Reddan for Leinster in that period. He'd be worth keeping on for maybe one more season as an alternative to the sort of player we have in McGrath. Under no circumstances should we be looking to bring in a second rate NIQ scrumhalf like Hougaard to start the big games for us

vienne86

Clegg wrote: »

Very late the the scrumhalf discussion, but I think it's time we looked elsewhere than Boss and Reddan. They're both 35 and their ability is only going one way. Reddan's game was all about speed to the ruck and getting the ball out as quickly as possible. I think it's noticeable that he struggles to keep the tempo up at times. His form has been ropey for quite a while now too. We have a similar type of player in McGrath who is much younger and a bigger threat around the fringes. I think it's time to move ahead with him as our starting number 9. Boss hasn't been the worst over the last year either. In all truth he's been performing just as well, if not better than Reddan for Leinster in that period. He'd be worth keeping on for maybe one more season as an alternative to the sort of player we have in McGrath. Under no circumstances should we be looking to bring in a second rate NIQ scrumhalf like Hougaard to start the big games for us

What is Cooney's contract situation with Connacht?

Clegg

vienne86 wrote: »

What is Cooney's contract situation with Connacht?

No idea. I'd take him at Leinster though. If Boss and Reddan leave at the end of the season it opens up the squad to a brand new generation of 9's. Even if just one of them leaves we're probably going to have to bring in a new scrum half anyway. Can't go into the new season with McGrath and one of the two as our only recognised senior 9's. And describing McGrath as a senior player is pushing it I think.

former total

stephen_n wrote: »

Reddan and Boss are 35 now, if we had decent scrumhalves coming through, they wouldn't be on the books.

That's just not true. Whether people want to accept it or not, as of October 2015 Joe rated these two as the second and third best scrum halves in the country. They were always going to be on the books.

wp_rathead

vienne86 wrote: »

What is Cooney's contract situation with Connacht?

Afaik he was on loan last year and then signed a 1 Year Contract so his contract is up end of this season
I'd love to keep him at Connacht but Leinster could do with him

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

That's just not true. Whether people want to accept it or not, as of October 2015 Joe rated these two as the second and third best scrum halves in the country. They were always going to be on the books.

As of October what other options had he? Marmion, Williams and Marshall? Nobody else was playing or had played enough rugby. So it's not like The options were great. And as Stephen_n said, things would have been different if we had decent options coming through. If we did that surely would have impacted Joes thinking?

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

As of October what other options had he? Marmion, Williams and Marshall? Nobody else was playing or had played enough rugby. So it's not like The options were great. And as Stephen_n said, things would have been different if we had decent options coming through. If we did that surely would have impacted Joes thinking?

We had Cooney and we let him go, we have McGrath, we have last season's U20s captain coming up behind. How many more scrum halves do people expect to come through?

It was obvious from a long way out that both guys would be in the RWC squad. That meant they needed contracts which meant they were going to be on the books at Leinster this season regardless of who was coming through.

That Reddan and Boss were the best options, well that's a reflection on the alternatives who I agree are shyte, but it doesn't change anything for Leinster.

Zzippy

TOL will be available... just sayin'

Bazzo

Zzippy wrote: »

TOL will be available... just sayin'

Didn't he sign for 2 years?

Cooney may well head back east and he is a quality player. Really has been pushing Marmion at Connacht and it's done both of them good I'd imagine.