Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Redgirl82

jm08 wrote: »

Because of the repercussions of Leinster's Ian Madigan being moved to Munster by Nucifora.

Then discuss the Madigan move.

I can see the IRFU pushing this through by telling Madigan he will be overlooked if he plays in UK/France

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Schmidt game him a game because he was the best option at outhalf v. Italy and he did well. I stated a fact that Keatley's form went to pot after he was dropped completely by Schmidt in the 6Ns.

Who's fault is that?

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

So are you saying that say if you were promoted in your job and then lost your job uncermoniously even though you did well, it wouldn't bother you?

Apart from anything else, Keatley is a confidence player.

But IK didnt lose his job. Jeez munster are turning into a soft bunch these days. The new ladyboys of irish rugby.

IK and IM are about the same level, with differing attributes.

former total

jm08 wrote: »

LOL. Of course we knew that. He was dropped out of the 23 though which would have done nothing for his confidence.

jm08 wrote: »

I stated a fact that Keatley's form went to pot after he was dropped completely by Schmidt in the 6Ns.

You might think you're defending him, but this is the most damning criticism of Keatley that has been levelled at him.

Someone as mentally weak, as you claim he is, that's not someone you want in your key position.

Bit harsh jm08, he's not that bad.

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

But IK didnt lose his job. Jeez munster are turning into a soft bunch these days. The new ladyboys of irish rugby.

IK and IM are about the same level, with differing attributes.

Ian Keatley is from Dublin

aimee1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who's fault is that?

Joe Schmidt. Apparently. Too much focus on winning titles and not enough focus on a flaky 10s confidence.

IK = Irelands freddie michelak

jm08

former total wrote: »

You might think you're defending him, but this is the most damning criticism of Keatley that has been levelled at him.

Someone as mentally weak, as you claim he is, that's not someone you want in your key position.

Bit harsh jm08, he's not that bad.

Its pretty obvious that he is a confidence player. He isn't the first rugby player to have confidence issues. That is the flaw in his game. The famous Munster email even mentioned them.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Ian Keatley is from Dublin

But he plays for munster?

Is TOD a dub? You levelled the same bullsh1t at JS for destroying his confidence too IIRC.

If these lads cant hack being omitted from national squads they should retire.

jm08

former total wrote: »

You might think you're defending him, but this is the most damning criticism of Keatley that has been levelled at him.

Someone as mentally weak, as you claim he is, that's not someone you want in your key position.

Bit harsh jm08, he's not that bad.

So why are so many players going to sports psychologists? Why is Enda McNulty part of Joe Schmidt's staff?

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

So why are so many players going to sports psychologists? Why is Enda McNulty part of Joe Schmidt's staff?

I wish you could be more direct rather then us trying to figure out what your implying with your open ended questions.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Its pretty obvious that he is a confidence player. He isn't the first rugby player to have confidence issues. That is the flaw in his game. The famous Munster email even mentioned them.

So its anthony foleys fault, is that what you are saying? A leaked email like that will do more to undermine a player then non selection for ireland.



On a more leinster note...

Apart from Henshaw is there any player in the other three provinces who might be moved onto leinster if this merry go round becomes reality.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

So why are so many players going to sports psychologists? Why is Enda McNulty part of Joe Schmidt's staff?

Because the Munster players are all soft and lack confidence according to your good self:)

former total

jm08 wrote: »

Its pretty obvious that he is a confidence player. He isn't the first rugby player to have confidence issues. That is the flaw in his game. The famous Munster email even mentioned them.

Jesus, you're really going to town on him this morning. Poor Keats.

On the other hand, Madigan was dropped for the Italy match but responded by keeping the 22 jersey for the rest of the 6N and establishing himself as the unquestioned back-up to Sexton for the World Cup.

Sounds like the sort of guy ye need down there.

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

But he plays for munster?

Is TOD a dub? You levelled the same bullsh1t at JS for destroying his confidence too IIRC.

If these lads cant hack being omitted from national squads they should retire.

According to Ronan O'Gara:

“In coaching, it’s about the players and how you can get the best out of them. Confidence is crucial. I can remember certain coaches can just fill you with confidence and if you feel that in a genuine way off them is incredible and can apply to any aspect in life.”
O’Gara spoke highly of former Munster coach, Tony McGahan’s man-management skills.
“A minute before kick-off Tony is shaking your hand, kinda touching foreheads, and he used to say, ‘are you ready, king?’ which is nice to hear. He’d be going, ‘King, are you going to have a good one today?’ And I was like, ‘I’m ready, boss’.

case885

aimee1 wrote:

But he plays for munster?

Once a ladyboy always a ladyboy.

jm08

former total wrote: »

Jesus, you're really going to town on him this morning. Poor Keats.

On the other hand, Madigan was dropped for the Italy match but responded by keeping the 22 jersey for the rest of the 6N and establishing himself as the unquestioned back-up to Sexton for the World Cup.

Sounds like the sort of guy ye need down there.

Different personalities. Madigan is frequently described as being cocky (and fairplay to him). He obviously can deal with being dumped frequently. I seem to remember Kidney getting a lot of stick for only giving Leo Cullen a few minutes of a cap, not to mention how bad it was for Sexton's confidence having O'Gara sitting watching him from the bench. LOL.

RuggieBear

case885 wrote: »

Once a ladyboy always a ladyboy.

Please do not use derogatory nicknames on this board please.

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

Schmidt game him a game because he was the best option at outhalf v. Italy and he did well. I stated a fact that Keatley's form went to pot after he was dropped completely by Schmidt in the 6Ns.

As long as you aren't pointing to some form of causation there then there's probably not much to argue with. You don't actually think Keatleys form went to pot because of the fact he was dropped do you? Because if that is the case (and if it was with TOD the previous season) these guys need to toughen up a tad.

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

So why are so many players going to sports psychologists? Why is Enda McNulty part of Joe Schmidt's staff?

Enda McNulty isn't there to make the poor upset and distraught rugby players feel better. He's there to help increase things like their focus and get their heads in the right place generally. Sometimes part of that will be teaching them how to let go of things that are bothering them, but it's only a part of what the guy does.

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

Different personalities. Madigan is frequently described as being cocky (and fairplay to him). He obviously can deal with being dumped frequently. I seem to remember Kidney getting a lot of stick for only giving Leo Cullen a few minutes of a cap, not to mention how bad it was for Sexton's confidence having O'Gara sitting watching him from the bench. LOL.

I think the issue with Leo was that he deserved more time, and there was no mention of the players confidence being knocked by what happened.

Confidence does play a role in a players form, but a good player should be able to bounce back from things like that, not retreat into themselves. During the vast majority of that ROG-Sexton thing Sexton was in outstanding form for Leinster. Keatley on the other hand went the opposite way.

Zzippy

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah I don't think you can use one single game as a basis for forming any real conclusion on anything anyway.

At the end of the day this sort of movement was always going to happen once Nucifora was signed. And this is the first real test of that appointment and that strategy. It's done a lot in NZ AFAIK and seems to work there. It will have some issues, objections and what not in the early stages but should actually be a positive thing on the whole for Ireland and the provinces. Talent won't be centralised as much meaning the provinces as a whole get stronger while the national side benefits from more guys playing, more regularly and at a higher level. There will be discussions around the merits of individual players, but with a longer term view I reckon this has the potential to be hugely positive for Irish rugby.

How would removing 22yo Henshaw and 27yo Ah You and replacing with a 36yo Ross make Connacht stronger though? Whatever about the merits of individual players, the merits of weakening our already weakest province are hard to justify.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

As long as you aren't pointing to some form of causation there then there's probably not much to argue with. You don't actually think Keatleys form went to pot because of the fact he was dropped do you? Because if that is the case (and if it was with TOD the previous season) these guys need to toughen up a tad.

Even the great Brian O'Driscoll had confidence issues and went to a sports psychologists. These lads are not machines. I would have liked if Schmidt didn't drop TOD or Keatley the way he did because it affected their form for Munster, though he seems to have been better dealing with Earls who would have been crushed as he is a confidence player as well. Zebo seems to cope better with being dropped.

edit: and in fairness to TOD, he came back.

Wow. Last few pages.

Quint2010

“In coaching, it’s about the players and how you can get the best out of them. Confidence is crucial. I can remember certain coaches can just fill you with confidence and if you feel that in a genuine way off them is incredible and can apply to any aspect in life.”
O’Gara spoke highly of former Munster coach, Tony McGahan’s man-management skills.
“A minute before kick-off Tony is shaking your hand, kinda touching foreheads, and he used to say, ‘are you ready, king?’ which is nice to hear. He’d be going, ‘King, are you going to have a good one today?’ And I was like, ‘I’m ready, boss’.

Elvis O'Gara...

phog

Zzippy wrote: »

How would removing 22yo Henshaw and 27yo Ah You and replacing with a 36yo Ross make Connacht stronger though? Whatever about the merits of individual players, the merits of weakening our already weakest province are hard to justify.

Connacht is a huge loser if these rumours come to pass.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

I think the issue with Leo was that he deserved more time, and there was no mention of the players confidence being knocked by what happened.

Confidence does play a role in a players form, but a good player should be able to bounce back from things like that, not retreat into themselves. During the vast majority of that ROG-Sexton thing Sexton was in outstanding form for Leinster. Keatley on the other hand went the opposite way.

It was exactly the same situation then for Sexton & Keatley as Keatley was in good form for Munster and actually played well against Italy.

Of course players should be able to bounce back, but generally they need the help of the coach.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Even the great Brian O'Driscoll had confidence issues and went to a sports psychologists. These lads are not machines. I would have liked if Schmidt didn't drop TOD or Keatley the way he did because it affected their form for Munster, though he seems to have been better dealing with Earls who would have been crushed as he is a confidence player as well. Zebo seems to cope better with being dropped.

You've a funny view of what a sports psychologist actually does.

All the professional players will get physio and physical therapy whether they are carrying a knock or not. It's about maintenance and prevention. Sports psychologist fill a similar function. They don't go because their confidence is shot, mostly they go to make sure nothing is preventing them from performing and to get tips on relaxation and how to maintain motivation.

No one will be happy being dropped but everyone gets on with it. Same with the lads after the Argentina game, you pick yourself up - it's what these guys do.

Keatley does have a game day issue - he has always had it and you can see there is an anxiety to it because his body language becomes uncomfortable when his kicking is going badly. How he will deal with that (or if he can) is one thing - but suggesting it's Joe's fault for rotating him out of the squad is actually hilariously misinformed.

Greyian

jm08 wrote: »

I would have liked if Schmidt didn't drop TOD or Keatley the way he did because it affected their form for Munster

What's the alternative? Keep playing them ahead of players that Schmidt feels are superior, because their confidence will be dented if he drops them? If the coach feels someone is better, you'll be replaced, and complaining about your confidence isn't going to help your case.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

It was exactly the same situation then for Sexton & Keatley as Keatley was in good form for Munster and actually played well against Italy.

Of course players should be able to bounce back, but generally they need the help of the coach.

I havent been posting on boards for years and the last time i was on here you were up to the same lark as the last few pages. Your the master at it jm08; kudos;

(you can interpret that anyway you want!)

Zzippy

https://twitter.com/RossOCK/status/674123554225569793