Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

I used to work in the cinema in Dundrum. Joe came in with the Leinster lads to watch a film, and I was giving him the eye to come to my till to order his tickets.

He chose another till.

I quit the cinema soon after, confidence having been shot to pieces, and I haven't worked another day in any retail environment ever since.

The Joe Effect.

case885

RuggieBear wrote:

Please do not use derogatory nicknames on this board please.

That wasn't serious, is Munster being referred to as ladyboys derogatory?

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RossOCK/status/674123554225569793

Genius.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to work in the cinema in Dundrum. Joe came in with the Leinster lads to watch a film, and I was giving him the eye to come to my till to order his tickets.

He chose another till.

I quit the cinema soon after, confidence having been shot to pieces, and I haven't worked another day in any retail environment ever since.

The Joe Effect.

I was at an open training session and he was shaking hands with the crowd. I reached out but he seemed to ignore me or just didn't see me.

That was 2014 and I've had erectile dysfunction ever since.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

Enda McNulty isn't there to make the poor upset and distraught rugby players feel better. He's there to help increase things like their focus and get their heads in the right place generally. Sometimes part of that will be teaching them how to let go of things that are bothering them, but it's only a part of what the guy does.

Brian O'Driscoll went specifically to Enda McNulty because he lost confidence. He said that Enda got him watching all the good stuff he did on youtube clips to get him thinking positively again about himself.

So, something happened (injury I think) to BOD to knock his confidence, he needed outside help to get his confidence back.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Brian O'Driscoll went specifically to Enda McNulty because he lost confidence. He said that Enda got him watching all the good stuff he did on youtube clips to get him thinking positively again about himself.

So, something happened (injury I think) to BOD to knock his confidence, he needed outside help to get his confidence back.

If his confidence was knocked that severly because he was dropped for massively better player who was only missing because of injury than he simply doesn't have the mentality necessary to play professional sport.

vienne86

jm08 wrote: »

Different personalities. Madigan is frequently described as being cocky (and fairplay to him). He obviously can deal with being dumped frequently. I seem to remember Kidney getting a lot of stick for only giving Leo Cullen a few minutes of a cap, not to mention how bad it was for Sexton's confidence having O'Gara sitting watching him from the bench. LOL.

I was one of his critics for that episode - Leo came on with just SIX SECONDS left to play - I never saw the sense in it.

vienne86

vienne86 wrote: »

I was one of his critics for that episode - Leo came on with just SIX SECONDS left to play - I never saw the sense in it.

In 30 years time when he is telling his grand-kids, the length of the cap won't matter, but the cap will.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Brian O'Driscoll went specifically to Enda McNulty because he lost confidence. He said that Enda got him watching all the good stuff he did on youtube clips to get him thinking positively again about himself.

So, something happened (injury I think) to BOD to knock his confidence, he needed outside help to get his confidence back.

Is there a point to this? I would munsters email leak would do more damage to a players confidence then getting dropped from a national squad. The Munster setup is the day job. Day to day and working without the backing of the coaching setup if he was negatively named in that email there is more likely to blame for IKs poor confidence/form levels and not national selection.

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

In 30 years time when he is telling his grand-kids, the length of the cap won't matter, but the cap will.

Yes, a cap is a cap, but I still hated watching that.

Larbre34

Deleted User wrote: »

In 30 years time when he is telling his grand-kids, the length of the cap won't matter, but the cap will.

He'll be too busy speaking of the 4-in-a-row Champions Cup wins he coached his province to.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

You've a funny view of what a sports psychologist actually does.

All the professional players will get physio and physical therapy whether they are carrying a knock or not. It's about maintenance and prevention. Sports psychologist fill a similar function. They don't go because their confidence is shot, mostly they go to make sure nothing is preventing them from performing and to get tips on relaxation and how to maintain motivation.

No one will be happy being dropped but everyone gets on with it. Same with the lads after the Argentina game, you pick yourself up - it's what these guys do.

Keatley does have a game day issue - he has always had it and you can see there is an anxiety to it because his body language becomes uncomfortable when his kicking is going badly. How he will deal with that (or if he can) is one thing - but suggesting it's Joe's fault for rotating him out of the squad is actually hilariously misinformed.

BRIAN O'DRISCOLL has lifted the lid on the evolving relationship he has enjoyed with sports psychologist Enda McNulty.

O'Driscoll revealed he first approached the former All-Ireland winner with Armagh more than five years ago because he was suffering from a lack of confidence. That relationship has evolved over the years and he now describes the Ireland team's official psychologist as a "life coach".
"I first went to Enda at the tail end of 2007 when I needed to rediscover my form. I had a massive lack of confidence and it wasn't working for me and I needed to kick-start something," O'Driscoll told Newstalk's 'Off the Ball'.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/ill-see-how-i-feel-about-retirement-at-end-of-season-odriscoll-29129454.html

Quint2010

Deleted User wrote: »

I was at an open training session and he was shaking hands with the crowd. I reached out but he seemed to ignore me or just didn't see me.

That was 2014 and I've had erectile dysfunction ever since.

No no-he ignored you...

jm08

aimee1 wrote: »

Is there a point to this? I would munsters email leak would do more damage to a players confidence then getting dropped from a national squad. The Munster setup is the day job. Day to day and working without the backing of the coaching setup if he was negatively named in that email there is more likely to blame for IKs poor confidence/form levels and not national selection.

Rest assured it wasn't the email as Keatley was playing well up to the 6Ns and the email leak was the previous September.

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Rest assured it wasn't the email as Keatley was playing well up to the 6Ns and the email leak was the previous September.

Well what was it then because it wasnt down to the national team or coach.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

I seem to remember Kidney getting a lot of stick for only giving Leo Cullen a few minutes of a cap

That had nothing to do with its effect on Cullen though. It was because it was really, really, really stupid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have done following that Italy game?

And I'm not sure how we ended up going down this rabbit hole. I think Madigan going to Munster would be weird and certainly a risk for Leinster. It's important to have a very solid backup, especially with the amount of games Sexton will miss for one reason or another.

Zzippy

Larbre34 wrote: »

He'll be too busy speaking of the 4-in-a-row Champions Cup wins he coached his province to.

Is that the new name for the B&I Cup?

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

That had nothing to do with its effect on Cullen though. It was because it was really, really, really stupid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have done following that Italy game?

And I'm not sure how we ended up going down this rabbit hole. I think Madigan going to Munster would be weird and certainly a risk for Leinster. It's important to have a very solid backup, especially with the amount of games Sexton will miss for one reason or another.

Actually no it wasn't. It meant Leo got a cap (and probably a better pay cheque).

I'd have included him in some other match-day 23, rotated things a bit. Keep them all motivated. I remember the previous year when Jackson was dropped, they brought him out to Paris for the final game and had him on the podium for the trophy presentation.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

BRIAN O'DRISCOLL has lifted the lid on the evolving relationship he has enjoyed with sports psychologist Enda McNulty.

O'Driscoll revealed he first approached the former All-Ireland winner with Armagh more than five years ago because he was suffering from a lack of confidence. That relationship has evolved over the years and he now describes the Ireland team's official psychologist as a "life coach".
"I first went to Enda at the tail end of 2007 when I needed to rediscover my form. I had a massive lack of confidence and it wasn't working for me and I needed to kick-start something," O'Driscoll told Newstalk's 'Off the Ball'.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/irish-news/ill-see-how-i-feel-about-retirement-at-end-of-season-odriscoll-29129454.html

Yes in this one instances Drico felt he needed someone to talk him out of a rut. I'm disputing that this is the only reason why players seeks assistance from sports psychologists which was your original assertion.

The rest of the quote actually relates to this being the case. He uses the word "life coach" whereas I'd use the term "life skills-coach" which I think is more reflective.

Sometimes there is a crisis, but all the professional and elite sports people in Ireland will at some stage sit down and get advice from a sports psychologist. I did so myself once as part of a camp I was training in, I found it pointless and took nothing really away from it.

tldr: a team using a sports psychologist doesn't mean a crisis of confidence, it's mental management in a high stress environment.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Even the great Brian O'Driscoll had confidence issues and went to a sports psychologists. These lads are not machines. I would have liked if Schmidt didn't drop TOD or Keatley the way he did because it affected their form for Munster, though he seems to have been better dealing with Earls who would have been crushed as he is a confidence player as well. Zebo seems to cope better with being dropped.

edit: and in fairness to TOD, he came back.

If they cant handle being dropped and it causes them to have a crisis of confidence that is 100% their problem, they're not machines but they're professional rugby players, not children. This is one of the stupidest arguments Ive ever seen

CMOTDibbler

jm08 wrote: »

Rest assured it wasn't the email as Keatley was playing well up to the 6Ns and the email leak was the previous September.

This 'form drop' of Keatley's seems to be going unchallenged. IMO, Keatley has always been a bit up and down in his form. Plays great one week and badly the next. He's been played at 12 as well, which could be part of the cause.

Not being on the bench for the 6N having come in to replace an injured Sexton (and Jackson) in the first game against Italy wouldn't be my choice of reason for any form issues he's been having.

And what would his expectations have been? Schmidt isn't known for lack of honesty or clarity with players. Keatley would have been told what his chances were for the remainder of the 6N and what they were dependant upon.

There are so many things going wrong in Munster at the moment that it's a bit bizarre to be pointing the finger at what was basically a shoot out between two players for a bench spot.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes in this one instances Drico felt he needed someone to talk him out of a rut. I'm disputing that this is the only reason why players seeks assistance from sports psychologists which was your original assertion.

The rest of the quote actually relates to this being the case. He uses the word "life coach" whereas I'd use the term "life skills-coach" which I think is more reflective.

Sometimes there is a crisis, but all the professional and elite sports people in Ireland will at some stage sit down and get advice from a sports psychologist. I did so myself once as part of a camp I was training in, I found it pointless and took nothing really away from it.

tldr: a team using a sports psychologist doesn't mean a crisis of confidence, it's mental management in a high stress environment.

This is what you actually posted: "They don't go because their confidence is shot". Of course I know that players go for different reasons. Luke Fitz went/goes to help him deal with his injuries.A symptom of lack of confidence can be trying too hard. Keith Earls is also on recordas saying he goes to (McNulty & someone else down in Limerick) sports psychologists to help him with his confidence.

Interesting that Brian O'Driscoll like you, used to think sports psychologists were a waste of time.

jm08

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

This 'form drop' of Keatley's seems to be going unchallenged. IMO, Keatley has always been a bit up and down in his form. Plays great one week and badly the next. He's been played at 12 as well, which could be part of the cause.

Not being on the bench for the 6N having come in to replace an injured Sexton (and Jackson) in the first game against Italy wouldn't be my choice of reason for any form issues he's been having.

And what would his expectations have been? Schmidt isn't known for lack of honesty or clarity with players. Keatley would have been told what his chances were for the remainder of the 6N and what they were dependant upon.

There are so many things going wrong in Munster at the moment that it's a bit bizarre to be pointing the finger at what was basically a shoot out between two players for a bench spot.

Keatley is a confidence player. Munster management have identified that. If you want to get the best out of what you have, you bear that in mind. Schmidt is in the lucky position of being able to discard players at will. But that might come back and bite him at some stage, if for injuries Schmidt needs to use Keatley again.

So what you're saying is that Keatley shouldn't have played against Italy, given that he wouldn't be playing the remainder of the tournament once Sexton returned?

Joe shouldn't have picked him, that appears to be your point?

aimee1

jm08 wrote: »

Keatley is a confidence player. Munster management have identified that. If you want to get the best out of what you have, you bear that in mind. Schmidt is in the lucky position of being able to discard players at will. But that might come back and bite him at some stage, if for injuries Schmidt needs to use Keatley again.

JS doesnt discard players at will. He has to pick 23 (+a few backups on a game by game basis outside of rwc). The players know this when he names a 45 man squad.

If IK cant hack that then he has issues which go beyond JS. Your failure to accept this is astounding really. The coach is universally praised by the players who have played the last two 6n so IK confidence issues go way beyond the national team selection policy

thomond2006

Imagine telling a player "I would pick you but I think you won't be able to handle being dropped if it happens". Hmm...

former total

I know I posted this in a jokey way earlier, but it really is a horrendous slight on a player's character to be suggesting that his form went to pieces just because he was dropped by the national coach, that he doesn't have the mental resolve to take a hit like that.

It's really not very nice to be making these sort of nasty statements with absolutely no supporting evidence. And all for the sake of trying to win an argument with anonymous internet posters.

And none of us believe it for a second either

jm08

former total wrote: »

I know I posted this in a jokey way earlier, but it really is a horrendous slight on a player's character to be suggesting that his form went to pieces just because he was dropped by the national coach, that he doesn't have the mental resolve to take a hit like that.

It's really not very nice to be making these sort of nasty statements with absolutely no supporting evidence. And all for the sake of trying to win an argument with anonymous internet posters.

Actually, all I posted was that his form went to pot after he was dropped in the 6Ns. A few here bizarely started defending Joe Schmidt for dropping him.

The only nastiness I see is the claim that if a player has to work hard on his confidence, its some sort of a slur on his character. Even the great Dan Carter said he nearly retired before the world cup because he was being told constantly in the media that he was past it (and being played out of position).

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Interesting that Brian O'Driscoll like you, used to think sports psychologists were a waste of time.

I never said Sports Psychologists were a waste of time. I said the time I went I felt it was a waste of time.

Either way you are proving my point. Earls, Fitz, etcetc are all going on an ongoing basis regardless of where their form and confidence levels are at as do most elite sports people now.

If lads are needing psychologists because they haven't made a national team then we're in trouble.