Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Starting Ben Marshall is really interesting, maybe he's still on the bubble?

Ah there's a few there that won't be with us next year, Dundon etc.

Just bubble-wrapping players.

.ak

awec wrote: »

Are Leinster giving up on the league?

If I'm being honest I think they did that a few games back. Kinda felt some players were being shielded for Europe.

Podge_irl

You don't have to "announce" project players. It's not an official designation.

MattD

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Presumably he's a project player until he physically lines out for someone else?

But yeah, say we were to sign Machenaud/Kockett for next season in May for example (were we to be allowed). Then it's 4 (Kirch, Douglas, Isa, Mach) + 1 PP (Teo).

And then Teo declares for Samoa, gets selected in their RWC squad and plays in August. He's no longer a PP before the Pro12 starts, so now we have 5 NIEs. I'm just curious as to what stage there is a roadblock in that kind of situation.

Do official or unofficial project players sign a contract to not declare for other countries in their 3 years?

.ak

In that situation I'd say we just don't renew their contract but let them play it out.

molloyjh

Tox56 wrote: »

If we didn't have Sexton it would be an absolute disaster but with him there you can carry a 9 more. With Sexton and the current squad we can definitely top/win the league, in Europe its harder to know

Whatever about next season with the RWC, but even after that Sexton won't be about for half of the league. We can't rely on him for the Pro12. We need adequate half-backs to play those games he won't.

I do worry that there's too much "Sexton will fix it" going on. He's huge and could make a massive difference, but he's not a magic pill that will sort everything out. Especially on those days when he won't be playing.

Tox56 wrote: »

The reason I have always been more optimistic for McGrath is that he has shown the ability to lead and manage teams, which is something Madigan has almost never done.

This.

Tox56 wrote: »

I dont think his decision making is a problem, in fact as young halfbacks go his is good, its the consistency of his pass. Which although Ive never thought is as bad as people say does need to be improved.

He needs games, which he will almost certainly get during the RWC. 5 pro starts just isnt enough to be comfortable at that level in a position where experience is as important as 9. That's compared to Madigan's 79 Leinster starts (and more for Ireland). If McGrath is struggling to manage games at 20 starts never mind 79 it would be a problem

I do wonder about peoples issues with McGraths passing. It gets massive attention but people seem to ignore that Reddan and Boss have had issues there this season as well. Is McGraths passing really so much worse than theirs? I'd argue not. It is worse, but I don't think significantly so. And with more game time I think he could be a far better option than either.

.ak wrote: »

I can actually see us losing this game because the form of our starting backrow is muck.

Our back row, half backs and full back are short on form at the moment. In fact the only area I'd be confident in is the front row. In fact that's pretty much the Dragons side that beat us in the RDS + Toby Faletau and we've only got a marginally better side compared to that game. I would not be one bit surprised if we lost this either.

Mahatma Geansai

MattD wrote: »

So people have kind of said that Te'o could be technically a Project Player if he is declared as such, which would allow Leinster to just get another straight international to add to our 3 (Douglas, Kirchner and Nacewa) to make 4+1.

But what would happen if Te'o just decided to declare for England or Samoa tomorrow/during the summer? And even go to the World Cup? No longer a project player, and suddenly we have 5 NIEs? Or is Te'o just another NIE effectively and we have to look at only potential project players if we want to sign any non-Irish for next season?

As far as I know, the NIE guidelines have been ammended for next season to allow for only 3 NIE and 1 Project Player at Leinster/Munster next season. Ulster have been given dispensation for 1 extra NIE for the year.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

If I'm being honest I think they did that a few games back. Kinda felt some players were being shielded for Europe.

Well that's short sighted if that's the case. We really only stood a chance of winning the Pro12 trophy. Nobody in their right mind can honestly believe we'll win the Champions Cup. It also means that we get a tougher pool in Europe next season.

If anything I think it means that we're targeting the Ulster game, as well we should. The side we're sending out should be enough to beat Dragons even if I wouldn't be surprised if we lose. Win this and the league is still very much on with a full strength squad going to Belfast. It gives us the best possible chance I suppose, even if it is a risk this weekend.

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

Ah there's a few there that won't be with us next year, Dundon etc.

Just bubble-wrapping players.

Well Dundon is off to focus on coaching, so in effect retiring. Who else isn't going to be with us next year?

Heroditas

.ak wrote: »

Hmm, don't agree with cotton-wooling the team before our biggest game. It's all knock out from here on in, we should be sending our strongest XV.

Neither do I, particularly when our first team need as much gametime ahead of the semi next week in order to gel.
I can see merit in resting the likes of Toner, Heaslip and Healy but O'Brien is just back from a long layoff and should be fresh enough to play.

.ak

I don't see any benefit in resting anyone if our season ends on Sunday.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

The side we're sending out should be enough to beat Dragons

We've said that with stronger Leisnter teams going out against weaker teams than Dragons and been wrong.

Nothing we have done in the league in quite a few months would lead me to the conclusion that we will win this game. We could, but I'd say it's evens with home advantage to Dragons.

I also think the thing the team lacks massively is continuity. First choice squad demolishing Dragons this weekend in a strong clinical display would do wonders ahead of Toulon and it's certainly what I had expected to happen.

Fairly disappointed to see 2nds team (3rds in some positions?)

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

We've said that with stronger Leisnter teams going out against weaker teams than Dragons and been wrong.

Nothing we have done in the league in quite a few months would lead me to the conclusion that we will win this game. We could, but I'd say it's evens with home advantage to Dragons.

I also think the thing the team lacks massively is continuity. First choice squad demolishing Dragons this weekend in a strong clinical display would do wonders ahead of Toulon and it's certainly what I had expected to happen.

Fairly disappointed to see 2nds team (3rds in some positions?)

We have a 5 day turnaround between Toulon and Ulster. Ulster are the team we are aiming to overtake to make the play-offs so even if we win this weekend it'll be for nothing if we don't beat Ulster. We can't play the first choice guys in all 3 games with the turnaround before the Ulster game. So if we're going to rest guys at all there's really only 1 game of the 3 we're going to do it in.

I can't believe I'm defending the coaches selections ahead of .ak. Seriously WTF!?

LostArt

molloyjh wrote: »

We have a 5 day turnaround between Toulon and Ulster. Ulster are the team we are aiming to overtake to make the play-offs so even if we win this weekend it'll be for nothing if we don't beat Ulster. We can't play the first choice guys in all 3 games with the turnaround before the Ulster game. So if we're going to rest guys at all there's really only 1 game of the 3 we're going to do it in.

I can't believe I'm defending the coaches selections ahead of .ak. Seriously WTF!?

As much as I don't like the team selection, it's obviously with Ulster in mind. However, if we lose Sunday then Ulster won't matter.

molloyjh

LostArt wrote: »

As much as I don't like the team selection, it's obviously with Ulster in mind. However, if we lose Sunday then Ulster won't matter.

That's the catch 22 really. Every game is a must win but we need to rest the guys some time. This week is the least riskiest game to do it. That doesn't mean it's not a risk though. If we lose any more games in the league we're done in all reality. That's an unfortunate result of our poor form over the course of the season.

total former

Newport Gwent Dragons team to face Leinster
Jason Tovey, Tom Prydie, Tyler Morgan, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Dorian Jones, Jonathan Evans; Phil Price, T.Rhys Thomas (c), Brok Harris, James Thomas, Cory Hill, Nick Crosswell, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Rhys Buckley, Luke Garrett, Dan Way, Matthew Screech, James Benjamin, Luc Jones, Pat Leach, Geraint Rhys Jones.

That's a decent side, pretty much full strength. Wouldn't be overly confident at all now.

scott1974

total former wrote: »

Newport Gwent Dragons team to face Leinster
Jason Tovey, Tom Prydie, Tyler Morgan, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Dorian Jones, Jonathan Evans; Phil Price, T.Rhys Thomas (c), Brok Harris, James Thomas, Cory Hill, Nick Crosswell, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Rhys Buckley, Luke Garrett, Dan Way, Matthew Screech, James Benjamin, Luc Jones, Pat Leach, Geraint Rhys Jones.

That's a decent side, pretty much full strength. Wouldn't be overly confident at all now.

Mmmm, I'm worried...
I at least thought they'd try a few combinations ahead of Toulon instead of resting them... not sure if you can read anything into those selections..except T'eo is starting next week...

irishbucsfan

They're a well coached team, it'd going to be a tight game.

CatFromHue

.ak wrote: »

15. Zane Kirchner
14. Dave Kearney
13. Ben Te'o
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Darragh Fanning
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Eoin Reddan
1. Jack McGrath
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Martin Moore
4. Ben Marshall
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Dominic Ryan
7. Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8. Jack Conan

16. Aaron Dundon
17. Michael Bent
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ross Molony
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Luke McGrath
22. Noel Reid
23. Luke Fitzgerald

Hmm, don't agree with cotton-wooling the team before our biggest game. It's all knock out from here on in, we should be sending our strongest XV.

It's actually stronger, just about, than the team that lost to them in the RDS:

15: Dave Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Ben Te'o
12: Noel Reid (Luke Fitzgerald, 11)
11: Darragh Fanning
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: Luke McGrath (John Cooney, 65)
1: Michael Bent
2: Richardt Strauss (Aaron Dundon, 3-7; 25)
3: Tadhg Furlong
4: Tom Denton (Mike McCarthy, 11)
5: Kane Douglas
6: Dominic Ryan
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN (Josh van der Flier, 65)
8: Jack Conan

REPLACEMENTS NOT USED: Peter Dooley, Jamie Hagan, Cathal Marsh.

total former

I thought Gopperth might have got a rest this week. He has played in every single match this season and, barring injury, will continue to do so. He must be wrecked.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

I thought Gopperth might have got a rest this week. He has played in every single match this season and, barring injury, will continue to do so. He must be wrecked.

He'll be asked to do 80 again too, which will be the 22nd time this season.

dub_skav

2 of the first teamers retained could be interesting; Jimmy and Te'o.
We get to see a midfield of Darce and Te'o with Jimmy kicking one week out from Toulon.

Might be nothing in it, but not having Madigan even on the bench means that Jimmy is kicking for the whole game.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

He'll be asked to do 80 again too, which will be the 22nd time this season.

He's still not flogged like Sexton is at Racing.

Regards,
GT

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

He's still not flogged like Sexton is at Racing.

Regards,
GT

Those Irish clubs and their complete disregard for player welfare!

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

We have a 5 day turnaround between Toulon and Ulster. Ulster are the team we are aiming to overtake to make the play-offs so even if we win this weekend it'll be for nothing if we don't beat Ulster. We can't play the first choice guys in all 3 games with the turnaround before the Ulster game. So if we're going to rest guys at all there's really only 1 game of the 3 we're going to do it in.

I can't believe I'm defending the coaches selections ahead of .ak. Seriously WTF!?

We're not beating anyone without some continuity and confidence, two things a good performance against Dragons could afford us.

I think this is a missed opportunity for the Real Leinster to stand up. Nothing energises like a good win and there are players left out that have little game time this season.

Then again, if we sent out a first choice and lost you'd be even more worried for the Toulon game but am sure that didnt come into the thinking......

awec

I think if we win and you lose you would need us to lose all three of our remaining games to overtake us.

CatFromHue

Was reading in the Indo this morning that D'arcy hasn't been offered a contract renewal by Leinster so this is a big game for him.

He could force his way back into the first team here with a good showing.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

He's still not flogged like Sexton is at Racing.

Regards,
GT

Ahh, a tête-à-tête I see!

stephen_n

Can't understand Madigan not starting, he's played very little rugby in the last two months and Goperth has been flogged, regardless of anything else Goperth must need a rest.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Those Irish clubs and their complete disregard for NIE player welfare!

:pac: